webfact Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Red Line deal inked; some Hopewell pillars to stay BANGKOK, Jan 31 – The State Railway of Thailand (SRT) today signed two deals, worth a combined Bt21 billion (US$700 million), to expand Bangkok’s urban mass transit rail projects to the northern side of the city. Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt presided over a ceremony to sign the agreements between the SRT and Italian-Thai Development Co. The first deal covers a 21km rail system between Bang Sue and Rangsit (Red Line) and the construction of six stations, including Don Meuang, along the route. The second agreement involves construction of the foundations for future expansion of two major stations – Samien Naree and Lak Hok. Construction will take three years and the Transport Ministry projects the Red Line to service 30,000-40,000 commuters per hour. Half of the existing concrete pillars of the unfinished Hopewell rail link project will be useful as structures while substandard pillars will be demolished. The pillars lining Vibhavadi-Rangsit Road were abandoned for 15 years after the Thai subsidiary of Hong Kong-based Hopewell Holdings discontinued building the mega mass transit project. Mr Chadchart said SRT retained consultants have pinpointed which pillars will be torn down and noted that the use of the remaining ones is not a breach of contract with the original contractor. The minister said he has ordered the SRT to speed up construction of rail link stations at the Thammasat University Rangsit campus, Nava Nakhon industrial estate, Samien Naree and Lak Hok, and ensure that connections for passengers to the stations are convenient. He said the original plan to integrate city rail links and high-speed rails could be impractical and a separate four-track system may be needed for a high-speed train. Mr Chadchart said private contractors in provinces along the high-speed rail line will be invited to join bids to build railway stations which can be expanded to include hotels and shopping complexes. (MCOT online news) -- TNA 2013-01-31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airconsult Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Interesting..... I wonder if the 21 billion includes the 11 billion that the court ruled SRT owed Hopewell? That would have been an easy face-saving - we won't pay them, we'll pay Italian-Thai, who will pay Hopewell... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegularReader Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yipee! My wife bought a place from her sister in Don Muang in 1996. At the time Hopewell was well under way - the pilons at least. So it seemed like a good place to live. Then 1997 came along and Hopewell became "hopeless". Ever since, around election time, you would see billboards featuring some sort of "proposed" rail line. Then, the election would be over and nothing would happen. Although this time it is not our illustrious (ans maybe soon not to be) local member Karun making the announcement. So, maybe for once, it is finally Don Muang's chance to share in the PT populist pie ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilDrSomkid Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Interesting..... I wonder if the 21 billion includes the 11 billion that the court ruled SRT owed Hopewell? That would have been an easy face-saving - we won't pay them, we'll pay Italian-Thai, who will pay Hopewell... No, no, no. The 11 billion will go in certain peoples pockets. The SRT is one of the most corrupt and wasteful state enterprises in the country. According to figures given by Chuwit during a presentation about corruption in Thailand, he said that SRT get 550million baht a year. Have you seen the state and age of their trains? Edited January 31, 2013 by EvilDrSomkid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greer Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Its actually good to see some forward thinking and good planning - the rail systems that are being put in place even now, including line extensions on the Thonburi side, really are helping to make travelling around the city and nearby, much easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprq Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 "He said the original plan to integrate city rail links and high-speed rails could be impractical and a separate four-track system may be needed for a high-speed train." Oh my god. This is just one of the statements in this report which raises huge questions. But then since it comes from MCOT, you can't expect much in the way of useful information. The country doesn't need even a bluddy two-track high-speed railway, let alone a four-track, for god's sake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locationthailand Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Whilst all the billions can be set aside I wonder how much the contract price is pumped to feed the trough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 "He said the original plan to integrate city rail links and high-speed rails could be impractical and a separate four-track system may be needed for a high-speed train." Oh my god. This is just one of the statements in this report which raises huge questions. But then since it comes from MCOT, you can't expect much in the way of useful information. The country doesn't need even a bluddy two-track high-speed railway, let alone a four-track, for god's sake. I thought about the 4 track statement and concluded it's much like a 5yo's train set - extra tracks laid because of lack of expertise with points and signalling. The other alternative is that there will such a high frequency of trains running to the various destinations that 2 tracks could not cope. Where all the passengers with the need, desire and money to travel HSR are coming from is another mystery. Perhaps they will ban air travel to these destinations, not that that measure would provide enough to make the system profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Just exactly how did they decide that Italian-Thai would be the chosen contractor for this project? Competitive bidding??? Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphodbeeblebrox Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Removal of one of Thaksin's eyesores is always to be commended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Removal of one of Thaksin's eyesores is always to be commended. How was Thaksin involved in the Hopewell project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newermonkey Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 They should make it into a tourist attraction, call it Hopehenge or Stonewell, the Brits have got away with making a bunch of stone pillars into an attraction, Thailand could become the hub of FAIL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Considering how things work (or don't work) around here, I'm thinking ahead to a day long in the future where the future trains are rolling down the tracks and one or more of the supposedly solid remaining Hopewell pillars collapses underneath them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Considering how things work (or don't work) around here, I'm thinking ahead to a day long in the future where the future trains are rolling down the tracks and one or more of the supposedly solid remaining Hopewell pillars collapses underneath them... Indeed, why on earth would they keep a "few" of the pillars? As a monument? I can believe there is some stupid catch in an old contract that if they are all demolished, someone owes Hopewell a bunch of cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Interesting..... I wonder if the 21 billion includes the 11 billion that the court ruled SRT owed Hopewell? You must be dreaming, these people never pay the debts they are sentenced to..................until an airplane or two is seized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 why does that "Italian-Thai Development Co" get so many deals in this country ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Just exactly how did they decide that Italian-Thai would be the chosen contractor for this project? Competitive bidding??? Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! Italian companies have such a sound reputation for high ethics! A group I worked for once found out we had "bought" a business in Italy, without knowing. Fired the Italian coompany's MD and sent several of us to check. The new group member"s accountant presented 3 sets of accounts - one for the "owners", one for the tax man and one for the directors who were of course scamming. Should make excellent partners from a cultural perspective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Just exactly how did they decide that Italian-Thai would be the chosen contractor for this project? Competitive bidding??? Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! Italian companies have such a sound reputation for high ethics! A group I worked for once found out we had "bought" a business in Italy, without knowing. Fired the Italian coompany's MD and sent several of us to check. The new group member"s accountant presented 3 sets of accounts - one for the "owners", one for the tax man and one for the directors who were of course scamming. Should make excellent partners from a cultural perspective. Italian-Thai has nothing to do with Italy, it's a 100% Thai owned company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudhopper Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Elevated_Road_and_Train_Systemb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I was reading a bit of background today on Italian-Thai... Basically, the company started as a partnership years ago between an Italian guy and a Thai guy who was the patriarch of the current Thai-owning family. The Italian guy passed away years back, and the company went thru a re-structuring and ended up with the largest single shareholding block being the original Thai family. The current head of the company has been on Forbes list of the top 40 richest business people in Thailand, usually ranking in the 30s. Basically, Italian-Thai is the largest public works contractor in Thailand, and is considered linked to Pheu Thai (although they also build projects outside Thailand). Sino-Thai is the other and second largest public works contractor in the country, and was generally seen as being linked to the Democrats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candypants Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Removal of one of Thaksin's eyesores is always to be commended. How was Thaksin involved in the Hopewell project? he wasn't. but it is still his fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangTalk Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use. After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Any map of the rest of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use. After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed. Thank heavens that didn't happen with the runways or taxiways on the Swampy project ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Any map of the rest of it? That's interesting... Hopewell was kind of before my time here... But based on the 2001 era map above... it certainly looks like a good portion of that line going east-west was to follow the same route now used by the Airport Rail Link -- i.e. Phyathai to Huamak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Yup, I've seen a few better maps of all the coloured lines that are planned but can't find any of them now. I'm interested in the ones that go up along Viphawadee from Morchit/Chatujak, and the one that is planned to along Phahon Yothin from presumably the same place. I heard there's supposed to be one along Phahon Yothin to Saphan Mai and then to Khu Kot somehow. Any info with maps of the line drawn in would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use. After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed. I would have thought that the pillars would have been designed to stand for much longer than 15 years in the local conditions. Apparently SRT engineers believe the same. Poor quality mix of concrete is easily detected by a hardness test. Unless quality control inspectors were bribed and both they and the contractor willing to risk the consequences of the collapse of an overhead rail system (possible large loss of life with easily definable cause) then I doubt this occurred. There are easier ways to make money, like colluding with politicians to accept overpricing, with much less chance of repercussions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Yup, I've seen a few better maps of all the coloured lines that are planned but can't find any of them now. I'm interested in the ones that go up along Viphawadee from Morchit/Chatujak, and the one that is planned to along Phahon Yothin from presumably the same place. I heard there's supposed to be one along Phahon Yothin to Saphan Mai and then to Khu Kot somehow. Any info with maps of the line drawn in would be appreciated. Here's a 2012 era map I saved at one point... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Am curious. Are these the same structures that the German contractor built that was not paid by Thailand, and the Prince's plane was seized to force payment ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby nz Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Was wondering how long this project has been in the planning? Normally these things take a fair few years from proposal to actual start of work. Whatever the present Govt is in the position of taking all the credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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