Red Line Deal Inked; Some Hopewell Pillars To Stay: Bangkok

[FarangTalk]

I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use.

After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed.

I would have thought that the pillars would have been designed to stand for much longer than 15 years in the local conditions. Apparently SRT engineers believe the same.

Poor quality mix of concrete is easily detected by a hardness test. Unless quality control inspectors were bribed and both they and the contractor willing to risk the consequences of the collapse of an overhead rail system (possible large loss of life with easily definable cause) then I doubt this occurred. There are easier ways to make money, like colluding with politicians to accept overpricing, with much less chance of repercussions.

I have worked on big projects here so I know for a fact the cement mix scam happens. So easy to get away with here. Everyone likes a bit of extra money, especially the inspectors.

Someone mentioned the runways at Suvarnabhumi already but I'm sure there will be other examples.

You only have to look at the condition of recently built buildings to see the poor quality of concrete that has been used, especially those left derelict since the crash in 1997 which are now having to be pulled down as they represent a safety hazard.

[Buchholz]

I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use.

After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed.

This section that collapsed last year is hopefully not slated for the new line to be run on top of it.

[Robby nz]

I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use.

After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed.

This section that collapsed last year is hopefully not slated for the new line to be run on top of it.

I assumed that bit was never finished to the stage where it could stand without the steel scaffold that was left under it.

It appears it collapsed because the scaffold rusted away.

Anyway the rest cant fall down theres nothing holding them up

[rixalex]

Considering how things work (or don't work) around here, I'm thinking ahead to a day long in the future where the future trains are rolling down the tracks and one or more of the supposedly solid remaining Hopewell pillars collapses underneath them...

Indeed, why on earth would they keep a "few" of the pillars? As a monument? I can believe there is some stupid catch in an old contract that if they are all demolished, someone owes Hopewell a bunch of cash.

Does make you wonder. How much money would really be saved by trying to make use of pillars constructed 15 years ago. Surely ideas have changed since then about plans and designs. It's going to cost a lot of money whatever, but if done well, should be of great use for many decades for many people. Why not just be done with it and start from scratch?

[Bagwan]

Its actually good to see some forward thinking and good planning - the rail systems that are being put in place even now, including line extensions on the Thonburi side, really are helping to make travelling around the city and nearby, much easier.

Meanwhile the city subsides. What use the railways then?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm waiting for the underwater subways with snorkel masks....

But it does raise an interesting point. In one part of our world, some Thai government people are talking about potentially moving the capital out of BKK someday because of the future flooding/water level issues. And in another part of our world, those same people are planning to spend billions of baht on rail lines to serve the same area, which perhaps is destined to become submerged.

[airconsult]

I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use.

After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed.

I would have thought that the pillars would have been designed to stand for much longer than 15 years in the local conditions. Apparently SRT engineers believe the same.

Poor quality mix of concrete is easily detected by a hardness test. Unless quality control inspectors were bribed and both they and the contractor willing to risk the consequences of the collapse of an overhead rail system (possible large loss of life with easily definable cause) then I doubt this occurred. There are easier ways to make money, like colluding with politicians to accept overpricing, with much less chance of repercussions.

Agree, under the original deal, Hopewell built the elevated tollway and rail using it's own money, then operated a concession for a number of years (can't remember how long). However the estimated life of the pillars was 90 years for completed ones. There was a number that were not "capped" properly when the project was halted, but that was only 16 or so.

Pretty unlikely that Hopewell would have "gone cheap" whe they expected to operate it for a long time. One pillar did collapse last year, but it was a special one, put under extreme stress for testing, and the collapse was due to someone stealing part of the scaffolding used during the testing. (Perhaps it was a shear test? Not sure)

[OzMick]

I do hope they properly check the state of the concrete pillars they wish to re-use.

After 15+ years standing being incomplete, the air quality here and the fact that they use a poor quality mix of concrete (normally they water down the mix to save money which amounts to many millions in big projects like this) among other factors means the chances that they are now not fit for purpose are very, very high indeed.

I would have thought that the pillars would have been designed to stand for much longer than 15 years in the local conditions. Apparently SRT engineers believe the same.

Poor quality mix of concrete is easily detected by a hardness test. Unless quality control inspectors were bribed and both they and the contractor willing to risk the consequences of the collapse of an overhead rail system (possible large loss of life with easily definable cause) then I doubt this occurred. There are easier ways to make money, like colluding with politicians to accept overpricing, with much less chance of repercussions.

Agree, under the original deal, Hopewell built the elevated tollway and rail using it's own money, then operated a concession for a number of years (can't remember how long). However the estimated life of the pillars was 90 years for completed ones. There was a number that were not "capped" properly when the project was halted, but that was only 16 or so.

Pretty unlikely that Hopewell would have "gone cheap" whe they expected to operate it for a long time. One pillar did collapse last year, but it was a special one, put under extreme stress for testing, and the collapse was due to someone stealing part of the scaffolding used during the testing. (Perhaps it was a shear test? Not sure)

If you look at the picture in post #33 you will see that it was not a pillar but an unfinished track bed.

[Morakot]

Ital-Thai awarded Bt21-bn deal for Red Line section

Nongnapas Maipanit

The Nation February 1, 2013 1:00 am

SRT project may use old Hopewell columns

The State Railway of Thailand yesterday awarded to Italian-Thai Development the second civil-works contract worth Bt21.24 billion for the Bang Sue-Rangsit section of the Red Line, part of which will run on columns erected under the ill-fated Hopewell project in the 1990s.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Ital-Thai-awarded-Bt21-bn-deal-for-Red-Line-sectio-30199100.html

[Morakot]

The Unofficial Hopewell Project Site

Last updated August 1, 2000

The Story

The Hopewell project was to be a highway to Don Muang Airport, a main line railway (regular train), and light rail (a shuttle/tram from the airport into town). Originally there were three phases--from Hualamphong (the main railway depot) to Don Muang Airport, an east-west line from Taling Chan to Huamark, and a spur to the port. All these lines would follow the traditional trains lines.

http://web.archive.o...ewellMain.shtml

Edited February 6, 2013 by Morakot

[Ricardo]

Wonder what the menus would have been, for the pre-packed meals, for sale onboard ?

What do you mean, they hadn't planned that far, yet ?

No wonder the project failed !

[cbrer]

The Unofficial Hopewell Project Site

Last updated August 1, 2000

The Story

The Hopewell project was to be a highway to Don Muang Airport, a main line railway (regular train), and light rail (a shuttle/tram from the airport into town). Originally there were three phases--from Hualamphong (the main railway depot) to Don Muang Airport, an east-west line from Taling Chan to Huamark, and a spur to the port. All these lines would follow the traditional trains lines.

http://web.archive.o...ewellMain.shtml

At least the local teenagers have a place to get drunk and have sex.