asiamint Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 part of the same topic but a little of track When a company is protecting a billion plus a year industry they will resort to all sorts of dirty tactics including murder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa. History has proven that, any one what to argue on that point? I'M still fuming at Nestle after 13 years. My son used there products when he was young, these particular ingredients in his baby milk were banned in Europe and America but still being used by Nestle in Asia 10 years later. What type of sick minded excutives gives the green light to this type of practice? As for trusting what the plastic industry say i don't. Look at the blue zones around the world and notice they do not hardly touch any plastic with their food and it's all unprocessed. What does that tell you? The five regions identified and discussed by Buettner in the book Blue Zones:[2] Sardinia, Italy (specifically Nuoro province): One team of demographers found a hot spot of longevity in mountain villages where men reach the age of 100 years at an amazing rate.[2] The islands of Okinawa, Japan: Another team examined a group that is among the longest lived on Earth.[2] Loma Linda, California: Researchers studied a group of Seventh-day Adventists who rank among America's longevity all-stars.[2][3] Nicoya Peninsula, Costa Rica: The Nicoya Peninsula was the subject of research on a Quest Network expedition which began on January 29, 2007.[2][4][5] Icaria, Greece: The April '09 expedition to the island of Ikaria uncovered the location with the highest percentage of 90 year-olds on the planet - nearly 1 out of 3 people make it to their 90s. Furthermore, Ikarians "have about 20 percent lower rates of cancer, 50 percent lower rates of heart disease and almost no dementia".[2][6] Residents of the first three places produce a high rate of centenarians, suffer a fraction of the diseases that commonly kill people in other parts of the developed world, and enjoy more healthy years of life.[7] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradWilkins Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 To be honest i dont see much substance to the claims about the affect on on hormones yet. But the release of toxins when heated is well supported by many tests over many years.Enough to make you think twice about useing them Less developed countries seem to turn a blind eye to this because of the convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raybal5 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) No more kapow roadside for me. Where do you buy roadside kapow? And do they sell biff, pow, and crunch as well? I've always wanted to buy some Batman fighting noises! Edited February 8, 2013 by raybal5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.org/environmentalIMPACT.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradWilkins Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 All the people who want to stick their heads in the sand and deny this is a problem. Good on ya, i hope the overwhelming weight of evidence of the health concerns is all proved wrong, but it is still a huge problem in the environment.Like the island of plastic in the middle of the pacific. Hopefully when we become waterworld kevin costner can clean it up like he tried with the oil spill in the gulf of mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? Good try for a joke, but I think this matter is much to serious for a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 (edited) Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? Good try for a joke, but I think this matter is much to serious for a joke. What joke!!! Are you on the right thread? Edited February 8, 2013 by SICHONSTEVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vijer Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Please Thailand, eat up. I hope a disproportionate number of the idiots that leave their trash on the ground die early. On a side note, my father used to drink his coffee from styrofoam cups. Every day, all day. He would put the cups in the microwave and reheat the coffee. He came down with Parkinsons that ultimately killed him. I believe it was this use of styrofoam that caused the Parkinsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiamint Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? The article may not say it, but there are plenty that do. are saying there is no link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? The article may not say it, but there are plenty that do. are saying there is no link? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? Good try for a joke, but I think this matter is much to serious for a joke. What joke!!! Are you on the right thread? Are you??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? The article may not say it, but there are plenty that do. are saying there is no link? Show me where there states that there is a link showing that styrene causes oestrogenic affects in the human body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxe1200 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Nobody has to believe in any of these health implications, which is blamed on styrofoam. But may be you want to have a look at this link to broaden your view! http://www.sosnyc.or...ntalIMPACT.html Where in the article does it say that it is oestrogenic like this pathetic doctor implies?? The article may not say it, but there are plenty that do. are saying there is no link? Show me where there states that there is a link showing that styrene causes oestrogenic affects in the human body. ..why should I, I never mentioned that!!! Are you sure, that you are in the right forum? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsiam Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 some of these chemicals have molecules which fit into estrogen receptors and trick the body. "BPA is a weak synthetic estrogen found in many rigid plastic products, food and formula can linings, dental sealants, and on the shiny side of paper cashier receipts (to stabilize the ink). Its estrogen-like activity makes it a hormone disruptor, like many other chemicals in plastics. Hormone disruptors can affect how estrogen and other hormones act in the body, by blocking them or mimicking them, which throws off the body's hormonal balance." http://www.breastcan...factors/plastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartempion Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Well one thing for sure, the environment does not have a say in it and it is the most widely abused styrene consumer judging by the amount of these containers in the khlongs and on streets. Here in the villages they get burned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 some of these chemicals have molecules which fit into estrogen receptors and trick the body. "BPA is a weak synthetic estrogen found in many rigid plastic products, food and formula can linings, dental sealants, and on the shiny side of paper cashier receipts (to stabilize the ink). Its estrogen-like activity makes it a hormone disruptor, like many other chemicals in plastics. Hormone disruptors can affect how estrogen and other hormones act in the body, by blocking them or mimicking them, which throws off the body's hormonal balance." http://www.breastcan...factors/plastic (Note: #6 polystyrene, often used for disposable cups, plates and cutlery, doesn’t contain BPA but can leach the toxic carcinogen styrene into the foods and beverages it touches, and should also be avoided.) So basically, polystyrene doesn't contain the plasticiser bis-phenol A as there is no need for it as it is not a hard plastic!!! Styrene IS NOT oestrogenic!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 some of these chemicals have molecules which fit into estrogen receptors and trick the body. "BPA is a weak synthetic estrogen found in many rigid plastic products, food and formula can linings, dental sealants, and on the shiny side of paper cashier receipts (to stabilize the ink). Its estrogen-like activity makes it a hormone disruptor, like many other chemicals in plastics. Hormone disruptors can affect how estrogen and other hormones act in the body, by blocking them or mimicking them, which throws off the body's hormonal balance." http://www.breastcan...factors/plastic (Note: #6 polystyrene, often used for disposable cups, plates and cutlery, doesn’t contain BPA but can leach the toxic carcinogen styrene into the foods and beverages it touches, and should also be avoided.) So basically, polystyrene doesn't contain the plasticiser bis-phenol A as there is no need for it as it is not a hard plastic!!! Styrene IS NOT oestrogenic!!! I guess you could cite some sources There are sources out there that lean toward some of the styrenes being estrogenic. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1241390/ http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NewScience/oncompounds/styrene/2001ohyamaetal.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISTIANa9 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Lets put it this way, china enforce ban on food placed in styrofoam. The sellers are required to place a layer of plastic/Alu foil or wax paper between the food and the container. Imagine its CHINA. Yet other countries are still using styrofoam boxes for take out food. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 some of these chemicals have molecules which fit into estrogen receptors and trick the body. "BPA is a weak synthetic estrogen found in many rigid plastic products, food and formula can linings, dental sealants, and on the shiny side of paper cashier receipts (to stabilize the ink). Its estrogen-like activity makes it a hormone disruptor, like many other chemicals in plastics. Hormone disruptors can affect how estrogen and other hormones act in the body, by blocking them or mimicking them, which throws off the body's hormonal balance." http://www.breastcan...factors/plastic (Note: #6 polystyrene, often used for disposable cups, plates and cutlery, doesn’t contain BPA but can leach the toxic carcinogen styrene into the foods and beverages it touches, and should also be avoided.) So basically, polystyrene doesn't contain the plasticiser bis-phenol A as there is no need for it as it is not a hard plastic!!! Styrene IS NOT oestrogenic!!! I guess you could cite some sources There are sources out there that lean toward some of the styrenes being estrogenic. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1241390/ http://www.ourstolen...1ohyamaetal.htm These are specific styrene oligomers, dimers and trimers that in all probability are not formed during the polymerisation of polystyrene so they are 'clutching at straws' here (I spent my entire working career of 31 years doing R&D on styrene polymers). If they tried to claim that styrofoam is oestrogenic on account of this data then they would be ridiculed out of sight!!!! Styrofoam is NOT oestrogenic!! This is the same as someone trying to claim that because they found a miniscule amount of arsenic in one toothpick of a batch of 10,000 they should be banned worldwide on health and safety grounds!! Complete rubbish research that should be put in the nearest bin as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (Note: #6 polystyrene, often used for disposable cups, plates and cutlery, doesn’t contain BPA but can leach the toxic carcinogen styrene into the foods and beverages it touches, and should also be avoided.) So basically, polystyrene doesn't contain the plasticiser bis-phenol A as there is no need for it as it is not a hard plastic!!! Styrene IS NOT oestrogenic!!! I guess you could cite some sources There are sources out there that lean toward some of the styrenes being estrogenic. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1241390/ http://www.ourstolen...1ohyamaetal.htm These are specific styrene oligomers, dimers and trimers that in all probability are not formed during the polymerisation of polystyrene so they are 'clutching at straws' here (I spent my entire working career of 31 years doing R&D on styrene polymers). If they tried to claim that styrofoam is oestrogenic on account of this data then they would be ridiculed out of sight!!!! Styrofoam is NOT oestrogenic!! This is the same as someone trying to claim that because they found a miniscule amount of arsenic in one toothpick of a batch of 10,000 they should be banned worldwide on health and safety grounds!! Complete rubbish research that should be put in the nearest bin as far as I'm concerned. I said you could site some sources. Just recently researchers have begun to differentiate different types of estrogens that may have postdated your illustrious claimed career in polymer research. from the original article "Exposure to styrene may affect mood and cause irritability, and result in females having irregular menstrual periods, Dr. Weerachat said" Perhaps its a different mechanism than estrogen regulation. What would that mechanism be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I think the use of asbestos products in thier housing and construction industry is a far greater concern. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 "Sytrofoam containers contain the chemical styrene, which has a molecular structure similar to estrogen hormone in females, Dr. Weerachat said" WRONG!!! It's chemical structure is absolutely NOTHING like similar to oestrogens chemical formula!!!! oestrogen MF = C20H24O2 styrene MF = C8H8 If you substitute the ethyl group for a hydroxyl group on the styrene you end up with a completely different chemical in phenol. phenol MF = C6H5OH Bear this in mind when deciding whether the 4 benzene ringed oestrogen molecule with a number of various differing side chains is similar to styrene structurally!!! End of subject I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I think the use of asbestos products in thier housing and construction industry is a far greater concern. Without doubt the biggest concern is the use of phthalates and BPA (which ARE oestrogenic) and are put into many hard plastics and have been found in literally everyone's blood stream (at some level), that is the ultimate danger to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 "Sytrofoam containers contain the chemical styrene, which has a molecular structure similar to estrogen hormone in females, Dr. Weerachat said" WRONG!!! It's chemical structure is absolutely NOTHING like similar to oestrogens chemical formula!!!! oestrogen MF = C20H24O2 styrene MF = C8H8 If you substitute the ethyl group for a hydroxyl group on the styrene you end up with a completely different chemical in phenol. phenol MF = C6H5OH Bear this in mind when deciding whether the 4 benzene ringed oestrogen molecule with a number of various differing side chains is similar to styrene structurally!!! End of subject I think. That's a big load off of my mind. Thanks for the explanation. Still would be interesting to see what studies was driving the Drs. belief. It would be fairly simple experiment to monitor blood panel to measure endocrine properties from specific chemical residues. That's why I was curious to see some sources or citations. Is it possible it has indirect effect on the endocrine system resulting in disregulated estrogen levels? It seems Endocrinology is rapidly evolving field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SICHONSTEVE Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 "Sytrofoam containers contain the chemical styrene, which has a molecular structure similar to estrogen hormone in females, Dr. Weerachat said" WRONG!!! It's chemical structure is absolutely NOTHING like similar to oestrogens chemical formula!!!! oestrogen MF = C20H24O2 styrene MF = C8H8 If you substitute the ethyl group for a hydroxyl group on the styrene you end up with a completely different chemical in phenol. phenol MF = C6H5OH Bear this in mind when deciding whether the 4 benzene ringed oestrogen molecule with a number of various differing side chains is similar to styrene structurally!!! End of subject I think. That's a big load off of my mind. Thanks for the explanation. Still would be interesting to see what studies was driving the Drs. belief. It would be fairly simple experiment to monitor blood panel to measure endocrine properties from specific chemical residues. That's why I was curious to see some sources or citations. Is it possible it has indirect effect on the endocrine system resulting in disregulated estrogen levels? It seems Endocrinology is rapidly evolving field. I am not an expert in plastics as my work was on design and development of synthetic emulsion polymers (aqueous rubber). I am not questioning his concerns about the health hazards of styrofoam but I just wish he wouldn't make basic flawed statements such as he has done as it dilutes the seriousness of his intentions to warn the public on the issue of serving food in polystyrene containers (especially oil based foods)!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimamey Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've tried to check on this story and it looks as if he's taking a few opinions on the leaching of styrene and making a definite problem out of it without taking into account the majority view. I've only done a quick search but it's confirmed what I thought anyway that styrene occurs naturally anyway in made foods including cinnamon, strawberries and coffee although these are only trace amounts I think. There doesn't seem to be any strong evidence that it's dangerous in the amounts that occur in normal life and it's cleared for food contact use just about everywhere as far as I can see. He says there's no long term definitive studies on this and then says there's evidence for all these negative effects. Styrofoam is a trade name so it points to a lack of knowledge. He mentions it being classed as hazardous in the US. I think that's the styrene monomer as used in production which isn't going to affect you if your buying noodles. I have spent many years as a dental technician. Dentures are made from methyl methacrylate and the monomer of this is a very nasty liquid. Highly inflammable, the fumes are unpleasant and will irritate the skin. The polymer is inflammable as well. When these are combined these problems don't exist. There may be some leaching but it will be very small if it happens at all. When monomers and polymers combine they don't separate easily. To be honest if your eating enough take away to get significant amounts of styrene then you probably won't live long enough to get cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimamey Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I've tried to check on this story and it looks as if he's taking a few opinions on the leaching of styrene and making a definite problem out of it without taking into account the majority view. I've only done a quick search but it's confirmed what I thought anyway that styrene occurs naturally anyway in made foods including cinnamon, strawberries and coffee although these are only trace amounts I think. There doesn't seem to be any strong evidence that it's dangerous in the amounts that occur in normal life and it's cleared for food contact use just about everywhere as far as I can see. He says there's no long term definitive studies on this and then says there's evidence for all these negative effects. Styrofoam is a trade name so it points to a lack of knowledge. He mentions it being classed as hazardous in the US. I think that's the styrene monomer as used in production which isn't going to affect you if your buying noodles. I have spent many years as a dental technician. Dentures are made from methyl methacrylate and the monomer of this is a very nasty liquid. Highly inflammable, the fumes are unpleasant and will irritate the skin. The polymer is inflammable as well. When these are combined these problems don't exist. There may be some leaching but it will be very small if it happens at all. When monomers and polymers combine they don't separate easily. To be honest if your eating enough take away to get significant amounts of styrene then you probably won't live long enough to get cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadish_sweetball Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I guess there are no absolutely crystal clear data on long term exposure in humans. Still, regardless of whether there are negative health effects in humans or not from getting hot takeaway in plastic bags and styrofoam containers, the fact remains that the vast majority of these then go straight in the rubbish and will be burned, causing nasty air pollution. So since a while back, my family uses stainless steel containers with plastic lids whenever we go to get takeaway. Found them at Index Living Mall in Chiang Mai, in case somebody else is interested. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QualityTouristNumberOne Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm all for dissuading people from using plastic bags and styrofoam. However, not having done or cited a definitive study, it'd be great to know where the statistics come from. "Evidence suggests" is flimsy. I could say "evidence suggests that an extremely high tolerance for noise pollution and a traffic congestion causes one to crave rice" Waaaaaait a minute!... are they trying to say that the Somtam that Somchai cooks up in his rickety cart,which his buddy Lek hooked up to the mains for him(directly overhead)which is beside a busy road with cars and tuk tuks(and lets not forget the buses driven by yabaa filled maniacs frothing at the mouth) belching exhaust all over it IS UNSAFE!!!?...dam_n that styrofoam,this explains everything 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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