How To Report "tailor Scam"?

[baanthai4]

OK fine, I feel stupid... but maybe I can get my money back... and maybe I can steer others away from this guy?

Was walking from Chiang Mai Land appointment to Shangri La to see a visiting friend and stopped on a whim at a hole-in-the-wall "tailor shop" on xxxxxxx Rd called xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

I wanted to replace a white linen shirt I had recently lost.

Yes Mr xxxxx had linen and a sample book of colors, and he could offer me a special price if I ordered two shirts; one white, one color.

He wrote the order in his book, took my measurements, gave me a card that said I had paid a 500 baht deposit for a blouse (no date, no order number) and told me to call before I came back to pick it up the following week.

I came back about 10 days later -- when I happened to be over on that side of town again and thought I'd pop in before closing time.

He was so sorry -- but I hadn't called and the shirt was still at the factory.

No worries, my fault for not calling, I would be back the following week.

I called on a Tuesday to make a Thursday appointment -- but when I showed up..... confusion! Mr xxxxx's assistant asked me to take a seat.... Mr xxxx came out and sat down and said, Please sit, so we can look at color for the next shirt -- and proceeded to hand me one after another sample book. I protested: But why do I want to do that -- I haven't seen the first shirt yet! I was not overly aggressive but I insisted we check his order book together and I made it clear I wanted the first shirt or my money back.

Mr xxxxx asked if my address on the order was correct -- it was. He knew the street, if I would give him "one more chance", he would deliver the shirt personally to my home. I gave him my mobile phone number and asked him to call me when he arrived. We set a date and time.

You will not be surprised to know he never showed up.

He has not answered my calls or text messages.

He is not likely to be there if I trek over to that side of town again, even IF I had a Thai boxer to go with me, which I don't.

Mr xxxxx by the way is not Thai; he is from India... as is his "brother" or cousin or whatever down the street from him.

I am a retired-lady resident, but I imagine he thought I was staying at the Shangri-La Hotel.

I don't speak Thai. How do I make a complaint and to whom and to what end?

How do I let others know not to go there -- not that anyone WOULD go there really, but you never know, I don't usually go in places like that either.

Edited February 11, 2013 by onthedarkside
names & places remoced due to strict Thai defamation law.

[heybruce]

It is my understanding that Thailand's libel laws are so broad and the penalties so severe that few people risk printing or broadcasting negative information about any person or business, even if the information is true with ample proof (ever read a bad restaurant review in Thailand?). If I'm wrong about this I'm sure I will be corrected. If I'm right, these laws are wonderful for crooked or incompetent businesses, politicians, police, etc., and allow the culture of corruption to flourish. It also gives the country the appearance of a free press when in fact the press is severly hobbled in it's role as the watchdog of the mighty.

Thai people use word of mouth to learn about businesses that can't be trusted, and I think that is your only option.

[Dante99]

Go to see him again, one last try. It is not uncommon for tailors to be late, one that is often recommended here was twice late on a job I gave him but finally got it done and made some necessary adjustments. Not a bad idea to take a friend along as a witness.

[PoodMaiDai]

Contact the tourist police and take them with you to his shop. Being he is not Thai you may actually stand a chance at getting your money back.

[Payboy]

Not much can be done I'm afraid. The Batman and Commissioner Gordon get their suits made there, I think.

[Dante99]

Contact the tourist police and take them with you to his shop. Being he is not Thai you may actually stand a chance at getting your money back.

A lot of indians are Thai nationals as are some members of the police department.

[MassivePuffin]

Dear Khun,

I'm sorry but your post is screaming TROLLLLLLLLL!

If your heart is set on committing an act of defamation, it would be an idea to have a few more comments first.

I wouldn't be surprised if you posted here next week recommending your own tailor shop.

Regards,

MP

[elektrified]

Contact the tourist police and take them with you to his shop. Being he is not Thai you may actually stand a chance at getting your money back.

A lot of indians are Thai nationals as are some members of the police department.

Indeed that is true.

I would give it another chance. Indian tailor shops in Thailand are not known for stealing from customers. Often their families have LOTS of money and loan shark, finance construction, etc. As far as the tailor not showing up for the delivery -- well who knows. But honestly I don't think they are trying to scam you for a measly 500 THB. Be patient and give him another chance. If that fails, then you may consider contacting the tourist police.

[uptheos]

It is my understanding that Thailand's libel laws are so broad and the penalties so severe that few people risk printing or broadcasting negative information about any person or business, even if the information is true with ample proof (ever read a bad restaurant review in Thailand?).

I keep seeing this quoted and sometimes the actual written law. What I can't recall is seeing an actual defamation case from a restaurant, so would you happen to have any links to one?

Maybe I just haven't been looking properly.

Edited February 11, 2013 by uptheos

[Pillion]

Dear Khun,

I'm sorry but your post is screaming TROLLLLLLLLL!

If your heart is set on committing an act of defamation, it would be an idea to have a few more comments first.

I wouldn't be surprised if you posted here next week recommending your own tailor shop.

Regards,

MP

Good point! Keep you eagle (or Puffin!) eyes on it.

[heybruce]

It is my understanding that Thailand's libel laws are so broad and the penalties so severe that few people risk printing or broadcasting negative information about any person or business, even if the information is true with ample proof (ever read a bad restaurant review in Thailand?).

I keep seeing this quoted and sometimes the actual written law. What I can't recall is seeing an actual defamation case from a restaurant, so would you happen to have any links to one?

Maybe I just haven't been looking properly.

I don't know of any defamation cases, but as indicated I don't know of any bad restaurant reviews. I received my first lesson on Thai defamation laws when I was told by fellow students caught up in the LICMU Thai Language fiasco over two years ago that a local English language publication was dissuaded from publishing the facts of the case with the threat of a defamation law suit. Apparently some CMU officials felt the facts made them look bad.

Come to think of it, can you recall reading anything about that massive rip-off in any news publication? Can you recall any Thai publication printing anything embarrassing about anyone in Thailand who was not formerly charged with a crime? Hypothetically, if you had pictures of the house(s) or car(s) owned by a city police chief, and these pictures indicated the chief was living way beyond the means of his official salary, do you think you could get a Thai newspaper to publish this factual information?

[wolf5370]

Contact the tourist police and take them with you to his shop. Being he is not Thai you may actually stand a chance at getting your money back.

A lot of indians are Thai nationals as are some members of the police department.

I would have thought most of the police were Thia Nationals lol!

[PoodMaiDai]

Contact the tourist police and take them with you to his shop. Being he is not Thai you may actually stand a chance at getting your money back.

A lot of indians are Thai nationals as are some members of the police department.

Yes, you are correct. Some of them are Thai nationals, but some farang are too. Doesn't mean much to the Thais, as Indians are not really considered Thai and that is all that usually matters. Especially in the case of a cheating Indian tailor.

[PoodMaiDai]

It is my understanding that Thailand's libel laws are so broad and the penalties so severe that few people risk printing or broadcasting negative information about any person or business, even if the information is true with ample proof (ever read a bad restaurant review in Thailand?).

I keep seeing this quoted and sometimes the actual written law. What I can't recall is seeing an actual defamation case from a restaurant, so would you happen to have any links to one?

Maybe I just haven't been looking properly.

I don't know of any defamation cases, but as indicated I don't know of any bad restaurant reviews. I received my first lesson on Thai defamation laws when I was told by fellow students caught up in the LICMU Thai Language fiasco over two years ago that a local English language publication was dissuaded from publishing the facts of the case with the threat of a defamation law suit. Apparently some CMU officials felt the facts made them look bad.

Come to think of it, can you recall reading anything about that massive rip-off in any news publication? Can you recall any Thai publication printing anything embarrassing about anyone in Thailand who was not formerly charged with a crime? Hypothetically, if you had pictures of the house(s) or car(s) owned by a city police chief, and these pictures indicated the chief was living way beyond the means of his official salary, do you think you could get a Thai newspaper to publish this factual information?

Thailand's libel law is brilliant. It was made for cheaters, criminals, and crooked politicians to get away with almost anything they want. You can't even give a bad review on a restaurant even if they served you a plate of cow dung. Brilliant I tell you! Unless of course you're a falang, then they will just out you in the papers and not give a squirt. Then if you sue someone you cause them to lose face and you risk being beaten or killed. Miracle Thailand.

[Carib]

How To Report "tailor Scam"?

Cal 1-800-tailorscam-5555 and they will for sure measure you up.

If you are for real the tourist-police suggestion is a good one.

[hanuman2543]

If you really want to spend time and effort in getting 500 Baht back contact the Office of Consumer Protection or just threaten them with that. I think the Thailandwide number is 1166 or try www.ocpb.go.th.

[baanthai4]

Dear all,

Thank you for the replies!

I did not know about Thailand's defamation laws and am grateful for the forum's judicious editing out of the proprietor's name and address! Though they were in there, of course, because I wanted to warn any tourist happening to read this forum away from that area.

I will go back -- I don't actually believe a Tourist Police Officer would take the time to go with me, but I will try that first, and then just go back with a friend and insist on a refund.

It's not the money, it's the feeling of being ripped off and I wanted to report it somewhere... so now I have.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

[Semper]

Have the Immigration to check his work permit, you mentioned he is not a Thai.

[uptheos]

It is my understanding that Thailand's libel laws are so broad and the penalties so severe that few people risk printing or broadcasting negative information about any person or business, even if the information is true with ample proof (ever read a bad restaurant review in Thailand?).

I keep seeing this quoted and sometimes the actual written law. What I can't recall is seeing an actual defamation case from a restaurant, so would you happen to have any links to one?

Maybe I just haven't been looking properly.

I don't know of any defamation cases, but as indicated I don't know of any bad restaurant reviews.

Scary place eh?

[Mario2008]

Tourist police or the Consumer Protection Agency should be able to assist.

[KKvampire]

It is my understanding that Thailand's libel laws are so broad and the penalties so severe that few people risk printing or broadcasting negative information about any person or business, even if the information is true with ample proof (ever read a bad restaurant review in Thailand?). If I'm wrong about this I'm sure I will be corrected. If I'm right, these laws are wonderful for crooked or incompetent businesses, politicians, police, etc., and allow the culture of corruption to flourish. It also gives the country the appearance of a free press when in fact the press is severly hobbled in it's role as the watchdog of the mighty.

Thai people use word of mouth to learn about businesses that can't be trusted, and I think that is your only option.

ีAnd thats the reason why the country sucks ,consumer rights and customer service is crap but if you are cheated and want to publicize other than word if mouth you are deemed a criminal

[butterisbetter]

"How do I let others know not to go there -- not that anyone WOULD go there really, but you never know, I don't usually go in places like that either.:

I think Pillion got it right on this one. This is a competitor playing troll.The last few lines from the OP are overkill. Don't think a genuinely aggrieved party would write that.

[Beetlejuice]

Even if the OP is a troll, this my message to everyone:

This is Thailand and over here, unfortunately, most of us old hands have had to learn from these bad experiences.

Over my 30 odd years here, I have lost countless thousands of bahts in buying rotten <deleted> goods, scams, being over charged for items and services, repair work and installations that have been less than useless and so on.

Unlike the West there are no real consumer protection laws in Thailand or any easy procedures to sue like in the States. But as the wise man says; once bitten, forever shy and these days after learning from stressful and expensive experiences, I am now well savvy and forever cautious.

Without trying to sound racist, which is certainly not my intention; Indian tailors in Thailand have a reputation for scamming customers and are best avoided. What my family and I do is use our local Thai tailor who is very good and never over charges. I always pay the same as my Thai neighbors, because over the years I have learned what items and services should cost, plus I have let it known that I have not just arrived off a banana boat and not to treated me like a mug.

I have no idea how long you have lived in Thailand, but you will find that in time, you too will get to know what’s what around here. One piece of advice I will give you is if you require any services, including tailoring, ask your neighbors for recommendations and also shop around. Please if possible try to learn some basics of Thai language. This really helps and you won’t come across as a vulnerable newbie ripe for exploitation.

In this case my advice is, write off the 500 baht to experience, remembering that the guy has lost out because you did not pay the balance on the shirts, but if you do believe that pursuing your 500 baht is worth all the time and effort, than that has to be left up to your own discretion.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[realthaideal]

I was hoping for word of a good scam ruse here involving plants at temples, tuk-tuk drivers who coerce you into going to a shop against your will, and committing to at least a 7k-10k baht deal despite your better judgement - a proper BKK-style scam. But instead....

Look, I do sympathize with you that something's gone awry, but... 500B is hardly a scam. As others have said, go back again to try to sort it out, and perhaps go in the company of, or have out your phone to explain you're about to call the Tourist Police to help negotiate, and I'm sure you'll get taken care of.

At the end of the day, many jai-dee people here sell you things for peanuts, but then every now n then you get taken. You win some and lose some, and that's Thailand.

[jko]

The golden rule in Thailand - or any other tourist-frequented country - is to shop by specific recommendation, e.g. from resident friends, trusted forums, even TripAdvisor.

Same applies to choosing restaurants and hotels. Going in to any shop 'blind' (particularly tailors and jewellery shops!) and purchasing something in the hope that it will be OK, is risky.

The bottom line is that you really have yourself to blame if you decide to do so.

[baanthai4]

This is the OP back to let you all know that I did eventually go back one last time. Sat in the shop for an hour before he came to talk to me and I patiently but firmly explain that I wanted my money back while he kept trying to start a discussion about placing a second order (!) -- 6 weeks after the original order was placed, I received my deposit back.

I want to thank all the people who responded; I appreciated all the advice (well, except the one about trolls). The Tourist Police also suggested I try one more time and if that failed, maybe they would be able to send someone back with me to try again -- but it did not sound like something they normally do.

I also learned a lot from the posts about the defamation laws here but I have not had a chance to ask a lawyer about them, so I don't know that what I was trying to do would actually count as libel.

I also was unable find a Thai equivalent of a Consumer Protection Agency or a Better Business Bureau.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice.

[elektrified]

Great! Glad it worked out for you.

[kurnell]

Get a friend to go in for a fitting and when they are left alone, discreetly hide several prawns in various crevices about the shop. You won't get your money back, but you'll get some measure of revenge

[heybruce]

This appeared in the news section of the forum a few days ago. It gives an example of the Thai libel laws protecting the guilty and punishing those who dare to embarrass them.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/624318-british-activist-fighting-to-avoid-thai-jail-term/?hl=%20activist