Old Lady Came To My Door, What She Asked Sickened Me.

[Scully]

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

-Scully-

Just curious.

What you are doing in a rural Isaan village, alone? Without a Thai spouse? If you had one, nobody would come knocking.

The people think you lonely and need a companion.

I moved here wih a long haired type 5 years ago, split up and then returned to Issan after a stint in the UK.

Great people,cheap living, great weather and more women you can shake a shitty stick at. Why would you get married when there are hundreds of 20 plus women wanting a western trial

This statement from you just sounds ..... bad. Sorry. But you seem to have the attitude that you can shake a shitty stick at woman, there are lot's of them and you made it painfully obvious by using the "20 plus" you want us to believe you have never had younger. Ever asked one of the hundreds you have shaken your shitty stick at for ID.

Please excuse me as I have to go throw up and take a shower after reading this post.

Thats OK my ex was my age, I get attention but rarely take them up on it. There is nothing nicer than getting a nice smile from lots of young ladies. Shitty stick is a UK saying and nothing overly disrespectful is meant by it. 20 plus was said because anything even slightly older is incredibly imature and I don't pay for sex. Please don't try to judge my post when a thousand mongers visit Thailand and people think it's morally correct.

I apologise for your vomit but when your own mind has ingrained beliefs it must be hard to change your way of the way you think.

[muythai2013]

In case, she's really the mother, she will get you a written permission in exchange for the 500k. In there, she agrees, that you are the legal bf of her daughter.

That was even (the letter) enough, in the late 90's, to let the police step aside, if a westener got checked with 14/15/16 years old girl.

Since 2008, the legal age, for having intercourse with a kid is 15. So I think, the letter of permission of the parents will work even for a 12 years old.

If there is no 'force', the police will step aside.

If they wanna get extra money, the mum will take the 500k, and in the evening the police will knock on your door, to get their 500k.

And because the girl isn't a virgin, anymore, you couldn't even proof, that you didn't do something.!

Also, because you aren't Chinese Sex mafia, the daughter could even leave you, the next day. Or would you, like the guy's from the big massage parlors, go after the parents, in case the daughter isn't fulfilling the contract?

Probably not, so....!

no offence but how do you come to know so much about it.

I'm long enough in Thailand have open eyes and ears.

Change you subjects in chatting with young(est) females, and you will get much more information, as usual.

But do you want that?

i keep on reading this but it still makes no sense.

[rct99q]

Just curious why you would then state "why would you get married when there 100's of 20 plus women wanting a western trial"

As for post #60...as I mentioned the family and I have never heard of this happening. My wife has lived here (on the same piece of land) for the past 36 years, her father the last 60 years, her mother the last 58 years, her grandmother the last 98 years and none of them has ever heard of the OP story ( a woman walking up to a strangers door and offering a child for sale).

Underage brothels they have heard of but have no hard evidence of their existence (none of the family have admitted to having sex with underage girls/boys but all of them have expressed their disgust with it).

Would I call the authorities, absolutely! And here is a starting point if you ever see, hear or have personal knowledge of (as poster Number 60 you should be calling these people and get the ball rolling for the protection of children) a child being or the potential to be exploited!

TO REPORT A SUSPECTED INCIDENT OF CHILD TRAFFICKING, CONTACT:

• Phachabodi Hotline Center (Ministry of Social Development and Human Security): Hotline: 1300, email: call1300@

hotmail.com.

• The Anti-Trafficking Coordination Unit Northern Thailand (TRAFCORD): TRAFCORD was established in August

2002 in cooperation with the Coordination Center for Protection of Child and Woman Rights Chiang mai (CPCWRC) in

response to the problem of human trafficking in upper Northern Thailand. 24 Hr. Hotline: 087 176 5797

• The Center for the Protection of Child Rights (CPCR): an NGO registered in 1997 working to protect and support

child victims of forced labour and prostitution, sexual and physical abuse, neglect and trafficking. Tel: 0-2412-1196 ,

0-2412-0739 , 0-2864-1421, email: [email protected], website : http://www.thaichildrights.org/

• Saidek 1387 (Child hotline): Hotline: 1387

• ECPAT International: [email protected] ; Tel: 02.215.3388 (available 9:00 – 17:00 M-F)

• ECPAT Foundation (Chiang Rai & Northern Provinces): [email protected]; Tel: 05.375.0167 (available 9:00 –

17:00 m-f)

Edited February 14, 2013 by rct99q

[ALFREDO]

20 plus was said because anything even slightly older is incredibly imature

"....slightly older, is incredibly immature?" thought, its the other way around?

I don't pay for sex. Please don't try to judge my post when a thousand mongers visit Thailand

No, pay? But the "mongers" pay!

Ok, only give your, sure, "special Falang body for private anatomical studies" for free, to the interested over 20 female youngsters!

So, you "use" them and their "hope" to get a good Falang. Nice.

Some will "love" you for that!

Your house has sure, for more convenience, already, a "swing door".

I surprised, that one of the fathers or mothers of the freely "used" did not force you already "To run after the ducks" as they say in Thailand.

Your reputation should have gotten around already, at least it did to the "old lady"

Only she, not heard , that you "use" but do not "pay", have a age limitation and prefer shorter relationships of the physical kind.

Edited February 14, 2013 by ALFREDO

[rene123]

There are two kinds of people in this world... Tthere are those that help others in need and then there are the ones that say "Isn't that terrible, and then turn and walk away."

[hopdafru]

Just curious why you would then state "why would you get married when there 100's of 20 plus women wanting a western trial"

As for post #60...as I mentioned the family and I have never heard of this happening. My wife has lived here (on the same piece of land) for the past 36 years, her father the last 60 years, her mother the last 58 years, her grandmother the last 98 years and none of them has ever heard of the OP story ( a woman walking up to a strangers door and offering a child for sale).

Underage brothels they have heard of but have no hard evidence of their existence (none of the family have admitted to having sex with underage girls/boys but all of them have expressed their disgust with it).

Would I call the authorities, absolutely! And here is a starting point if you ever see, hear or have personal knowledge of (as poster Number 60 you should be calling these people and get the ball rolling for the protection of children) a child being or the potential to be exploited!

TO REPORT A SUSPECTED INCIDENT OF CHILD TRAFFICKING, CONTACT:

• Phachabodi Hotline Center (Ministry of Social Development and Human Security): Hotline: 1300, email: call1300@

hotmail.com.

• The Anti-Trafficking Coordination Unit Northern Thailand (TRAFCORD): TRAFCORD was established in August

2002 in cooperation with the Coordination Center for Protection of Child and Woman Rights Chiang mai (CPCWRC) in

response to the problem of human trafficking in upper Northern Thailand. 24 Hr. Hotline: 087 176 5797

• The Center for the Protection of Child Rights (CPCR): an NGO registered in 1997 working to protect and support

child victims of forced labour and prostitution, sexual and physical abuse, neglect and trafficking. Tel: 0-2412-1196 ,

0-2412-0739 , 0-2864-1421, email: [email protected], website : http://www.thaichildrights.org/

• Saidek 1387 (Child hotline): Hotline: 1387

• ECPAT International: [email protected] ; Tel: 02.215.3388 (available 9:00 – 17:00 M-F)

• ECPAT Foundation (Chiang Rai & Northern Provinces): [email protected]; Tel: 05.375.0167 (available 9:00 –

17:00 m-f)

#60 was my post just in case the numbers change if posts are deleted (believe I observed this recently)

@rct99q I'm not challenging what you said or trolling etc.

Actually It's great that you posted the above contact info, a few places have been raided recently thanks to these people's efforts, I'm not sure how much real progress is being made as I am also observing/getting reports of increased numbers of underaged girls in various places.

To make things clear though, I've worked with these people and while a lot of effort is being done locally, trafficking is an international issue / effort. With consequences well beyond what one would see on Nana/cowboy or in local karaoke's.

A couple years back I was pointing out these places where trafficking was done accross borders, (thus making the girls practically helpless and beyond abuse). I wanted to perhaps change the NGO focus from helping the occasional in between rice harvest easy job for quick cash (I'm simplifying) enabling photo shoots of the new girl at the shelter to secure donor funds - to working on the more difficult task of finding the under-aged, abused and detained ones and repatriating them + setting up a partnership between those involved (NGO/police etc.) along with a legal framework to make it work.

Perhaps quite naive as, to make a long story short, I ended up in a small dark room with 10 military guys going through my passport (quite a memory! still feels like an old war movie with the fan rotoring above my head) and having to sign a document in Lao which I couldn't read at the time.

All my paperwork was in order and I was asked a few days later to meet another person who told me in english and very nicely, that I was welcome in the country but that I shouldn't talk too much (I had written a report explaining my findings and point of view) and that my visa renewal was basically based on my 'behaviour'.

My contract wasn't renewed, I did some further work but never got paid etc...

As far as I know these places are still open for business (in thailand) - I'll never forget the feeling of having an obviously sick 14 yo clinging on to me begging for help and not able to do anything in that moment given the guys with guns outside -

It does look though as the legal framework mentioned above is moving forward. I certainly hope so.

To get back to the OP, I've had several instances such as a grandmother would ask me and my gf to adopt a luuk kreung kid (50/50) even though the father back in europe/west was sending money and the mother is working somewhere (or with minorities in the mountains where only 12 yo girls are 'available' as all the older ones have been married/sold already etc.). An old lady showing up with a child, albeit oddly asking for 500k ???, doesn't necessarily mean just selling the kid and who cares what happens to him/her as I wrote in my previous post (there could be debts involved, a violent 'family' member etc...) If you really want to help, these things can be discussed and each situation individually understood, by bringing in the local authorities or some of the above organisations. I don't think it's as easy as it sounds though, like someone suddenly shows up (especially outside major cities), pays the debt or whatever, deals with the family/police and handles living, schooling, psychologist/doctors etc.

edit: this could be a reason why some people run out of options as they were promised some help / it was expected through some organization who advertized it and it never came, they built up debt and are still trying to find help for the child... ahaa...

I do like the individual adopting though as in my earlier post - not a solution for everyone but i've seen it work. Some (rare/motivated/found early) girls can also be sent back to school with minimal cost/follow-up and a possible turn around.

Of course selling off a child as a direct transaction such as the OP is completely insane/abusive etc. but I haven't seen this either, except for trafficking abroad - rarely locally as most girls decide this on their own for a whole bunch of reasons: family, 'fun', easy money, having friends, meeting a magic falang etc. - that's where education / information would fit pretty well - a whole other story but a good start!

Long post again... I've been at this for over 3 years and looking for a more happy and beautiful environment!

Edited February 14, 2013 by hopdafru

[candypants]

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

-Scully-

Just curious.

What you are doing in a rural Isaan village, alone? Without a Thai spouse? If you had one, nobody would come knocking.

The people think you lonely and need a companion.

I moved here wih a long haired type 5 years ago, split up and then returned to Issan after a stint in the UK.

Great people,cheap living, great weather and more women you can shake a shitty stick at. Why would you get married when there are hundreds of 20 plus women wanting a western trial

This statement from you just sounds ..... bad. Sorry. But you seem to have the attitude that you can shake a shitty stick at woman, there are lot's of them and you made it painfully obvious by using the "20 plus" you want us to believe you have never had younger. Ever asked one of the hundreds you have shaken your shitty stick at for ID.

Please excuse me as I have to go throw up and take a shower after reading this post.

and here is a man with no understanding of vernacular, would you prefer he hit them with a swung cat?

[NeverSure]

There are two kinds of people in this world... Tthere are those that help others in need and then there are the ones that say "Isn't that terrible, and then turn and walk away."

Perhaps there is a third type, Rene? Those who instead take advantage, and they are the worst type?

[Scully]

Just curious why you would then state "why would you get married when there 100's of 20 plus women wanting a western trial"

As for post #60...as I mentioned the family and I have never heard of this happening. My wife has lived here (on the same piece of land) for the past 36 years, her father the last 60 years, her mother the last 58 years, her grandmother the last 98 years and none of them has ever heard of the OP story ( a woman walking up to a strangers door and offering a child for sale).

Underage brothels they have heard of but have no hard evidence of their existence (none of the family have admitted to having sex with underage girls/boys but all of them have expressed their disgust with it).

Would I call the authorities, absolutely! And here is a starting point if you ever see, hear or have personal knowledge of (as poster Number 60 you should be calling these people and get the ball rolling for the protection of children) a child being or the potential to be exploited!

TO REPORT A SUSPECTED INCIDENT OF CHILD TRAFFICKING, CONTACT:

• Phachabodi Hotline Center (Ministry of Social Development and Human Security): Hotline: 1300, email: call1300@

hotmail.com.

• The Anti-Trafficking Coordination Unit Northern Thailand (TRAFCORD): TRAFCORD was established in August

2002 in cooperation with the Coordination Center for Protection of Child and Woman Rights Chiang mai (CPCWRC) in

response to the problem of human trafficking in upper Northern Thailand. 24 Hr. Hotline: 087 176 5797

• The Center for the Protection of Child Rights (CPCR): an NGO registered in 1997 working to protect and support

child victims of forced labour and prostitution, sexual and physical abuse, neglect and trafficking. Tel: 0-2412-1196 ,

0-2412-0739 , 0-2864-1421, email: [email protected], website : http://www.thaichildrights.org/

• Saidek 1387 (Child hotline): Hotline: 1387

• ECPAT International: [email protected] ; Tel: 02.215.3388 (available 9:00 – 17:00 M-F)

• ECPAT Foundation (Chiang Rai & Northern Provinces): [email protected]; Tel: 05.375.0167 (available 9:00 –

17:00 m-f)

As you have taken the time and thought to post it deserves a reply. This did happen and it was for her hand in marriage, you say you live in the sticks, have you seen 13 year old marriages or at least heard of them?.

I lived in a small Issan farm for 5 years with mum,dad,girlfriend,son and daughter in law and several kids. I did what they did,ate what they ate worked on the farm like they did and the mum being the fruit seller in the market heard all that happens in the town. By the way, this life nearly made me insane.

I didn't hang around after the lady came to my door, I told her to go but the girl was offered for 1/2 miliion but in my mind marriage maybe after 6 months planning.

It's like saying "no a house has no cockroaches, thats because they are all hidden behind the fridge". Thailand has many dark stories.

I totally agree with your link as stopping this is what is needed but the woman had only intent. Why do you think they plant marked baht notes on pedos in places like Pattaya that get caught in the act.

Anyway to cut a long story short, it sickened me, but after my response I really can't see her trying it again.

Oh as for comment 100's of Thai women wanting a western trial it is no secret Thai girls want Western boyfriends, I have had plenty of gf's but now I am happy to be single and drama free. This won't last because we all get lonely but I will be be sure to try and get a good one.

Good on you for you moral values but this would just be classed as a passing comment as there are hundreds or real cases happening all over Thailand.

[Berkshire]

There are two kinds of people in this world... Tthere are those that help others in need and then there are the ones that say "Isn't that terrible, and then turn and walk away."

It seems the latter type describes the OP of this thread rather succinctly.

[Scully]

There are two kinds of people in this world... Tthere are those that help others in need and then there are the ones that say "Isn't that terrible, and then turn and walk away."

It seems the latter type describes the OP of this thread rather succinctly.

Right I am going to do a little research today and see what are the options, I won't worry about the old lady dressed in rags or the kid who will likely be married at 13 anyway. I shouldn't take the bait but hey I am having a quiet day.

[Scully]

Just got off phone from ECPAT foundation, the woman has done nothing illegal but was morally wrong. Good day.

[homeownership]

Who said anything about sex? Maybe the woman just could not afford to look after the girl. If I was living here full time I would like to take care of a young girl on the verge of puberty. I might be able to guide her in a way that would be beneficial for her in the future.

I think your winding us all up here pal.

[jvs]

Rene123 ,i think most people here think you are like them.It is great to see some people actually are willing to help a young girl in need.Me being a male would make things more complicated but you don't have that stigma.

[homeownership]

I have seen child prostitition in Thailand, Egypt and England. As a Father it bothers me. Every child should have the right to grow up and a safe environment and not be subjected to sexual abuse.

While there are men out there, ever ready to pay for sex with children, the supply will keep up.

What is attractive about a little girl aged 12 years old. Absolutly nothing. Ok they might look like a china doll, but in Thailand so does a 30 year old. 12 year olds dont have breast, or experienced in the ways of lovemaking.

So it can only come down to one thing, the men, who pursue these young girls and boys, are looking to take out their own insecurities as failed human beings out on children who are weeker than them.

This probably against TV rules, but I will be polite, if I ever saw anyone abusing a child, then they would have a accident with a very long sharp knife and in need of a urinary surgeon.

Thai people need to stop abusing children, their animals and their females. For crying out loud, Thailand is the best country in the world IMO improve it.

Edited February 15, 2013 by homeownership

[rene123]

Rene123 ,i think most people here think you are like them.It is great to see some people actually are willing to help a young girl in need.Me being a male would make things more complicated but you don't have that stigma.

That is true. Although women can be more nasty to their own than men are, a woman adopting a child, even unofficially, might be a lot easier than a man taking a poor child in to help it.

I commend people like Hogdafru who knowingly went in to try and help despite knowing they were up against military people who WANT to keep the trafficing of children running as normal. From what I've heard, it is the military that makes most use of the brothels and they don't want to lose their source of cheap sex with young women just barely reaching puberty.

[rene123]

I have seen child prostitition in Thailand, Egypt and England. As a Father it bothers me. Every child should have the right to grow up and a safe environment and not be subjected to sexual abuse.

While there are men out there, ever ready to pay for sex with children, the supply will keep up.

What is attractive about a little girl aged 12 years old. Absolutly nothing. Ok they might look like a china doll, but in Thailand so does a 30 year old. 12 year olds dont have breast, or experienced in the ways of lovemaking.

So it can only come down to one thing, the men, who pursue these young girls and boys, are looking to take out their own insecurities as failed human beings out on children who are weeker than them.

This probably against TV rules, but I will be polite, if I ever saw anyone abusing a child, then they would have a accident with a very long sharp knife and in need of a urinary surgeon.

Thai people need to stop abusing children, their animals and their females. For crying out loud, Thailand is the best country in the world IMO improve it.

At least international laws are now in place to prosecute offenders who perpetrate these terrible acts even though the offender is not in his home country.

[Livinginexile]

Who said anything about sex? Maybe the woman just could not afford to look after the girl. If I was living here full time I would like to take care of a young girl on the verge of puberty. I might be able to guide her in a way that would be beneficial for her in the future.

Can't be serious

Something really creapy about these posts.

[MacChine]

So did you call the police ? Or get any kind of information about the old lady?

You don't know how it works here? My word against hers, a complete waist of time. As I think you know,

Unless you can enlighten us how to prosecute on my here say in rural Issan?.

Well It seems a crime was committed, a child was offered to you under nefarious terms. As such it really is one's civic duty to make a report at least to police. I guess not having a sense of civic duty is a big problem here.

Sometime you have to be a little brave to do the right thing. I find doing the right thing to be its own reward and nothing bad happens. Sometimes people choose to believe the worst so as to avoid doing the right thing.

No, but I'm not in a desperate situation. Many young women in western countries give up their babies because they can not afford to look after them. It just happens more often in 3rd world countries. I'm not denying the fact that some Asian women sell their daughters into prostitution. From what I've read, that was common in Thailand about 30 years ago, but with the improving economy there are fewer of those brothels in Thailand today. However, it still seems to go on in surrounding countries like Laos and Cambodia. Also what I've read, the sale of young girls for marriage is quite common in India.

And, if you do any research it has been discovered that Joseph bought Mary, the mother of Jesus, when she was only 12 years old. If you believe in the virgin birth then I have a bridge for sale... cheap.

This is so OT but I have to comment. There is not one shred of evidence " Jesus" ever existed , much less any kind of evidence regarding Mary's selling into marriage.

It is a religious myth and to use such a ridiculous argument to assuage this crime of selling a child into sex is beyond any kind of

intelligent discourse.

[Fookhaht]

There is not one shred of evidence " Jesus" ever existed....and to use such a ridiculous argument...is beyond any kind of intelligent discourse.

Au contraire, mon ami: YOUR post is the ridiculous one. Here are just two "shreds" among tens of thousands of "shreds." All those "shreds" add up to quite a pile of material! There is more historical evidence (by the thousands) for the existence of Jesus, than there is for the Battle of Troy (from Homer's Iliad, a shaky historical source, at best).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

http://en.wikipedia....sephus_on_Jesus

But we digress....

Edited February 15, 2013 by Fookhaht

[SteeleJoe]

From what I've heard, it is the military that makes most use of the brothels and they don't want to lose their source of cheap sex with young women just barely reaching puberty.

Where did you hear that?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

There is not one shred of evidence " Jesus" ever existed...

There's plenty of evidence (not irrefutable or conclusive but extant and plentiful). There is zero evidence that he was of divine origin - perhaps that's why you are confused (but if one is going to be a critic of religion, there is I think an obligation to know something of the facts).

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[Fookhaht]

There is zero evidence that he was of divine origin ...

Oh, missing the boat there, too, my skeptic friend. Over 500 witnesses to the resurrection, many of whom recorded their eyewitness accounts in written form. These historical documents comprise a greater wealth of evidence than required for most "accepted" events of ancient history.

[rene123]

Who said anything about sex? Maybe the woman just could not afford to look after the girl. If I was living here full time I would like to take care of a young girl on the verge of puberty. I might be able to guide her in a way that would be beneficial for her in the future.

Can't be serious

Something really creapy about these posts.

Creepy in what way, or do you just live in the gutter and can only see the nasty part of life? There ARE people who actually care and try to help others. Of course, those with perverted minds can only see things one way.

[loong]

I have seen child prostitition in Thailand, Egypt and England. As a Father it bothers me. Every child should have the right to grow up and a safe environment and not be subjected to sexual abuse.

While there are men out there, ever ready to pay for sex with children, the supply will keep up.

What is attractive about a little girl aged 12 years old. Absolutly nothing. Ok they might look like a china doll, but in Thailand so does a 30 year old. 12 year olds dont have breast, or experienced in the ways of lovemaking.

So it can only come down to one thing, the men, who pursue these young girls and boys, are looking to take out their own insecurities as failed human beings out on children who are weeker than them.

This probably against TV rules, but I will be polite, if I ever saw anyone abusing a child, then they would have a accident with a very long sharp knife and in need of a urinary surgeon.

Thai people need to stop abusing children, their animals and their females. For crying out loud, Thailand is the best country in the world IMO improve it.

"Thai people need to stop abusing children, their animals and their females. For crying out loud, Thailand is the best country in the world IMO improve it."

Are you seriously able to put those 2 sentences in the same paragraph??

[rene123]

This is so OT but I have to comment. There is not one shred of evidence " Jesus" ever existed , much less any kind of evidence regarding Mary's selling into marriage.

It is a religious myth and to use such a ridiculous argument to assuage this crime of selling a child into sex is beyond any kind of

intelligent discourse.

With that statement you just removed any credibility for anything you might say in the future.

And, my comment was NOT off topic. We are talking about children being sold into some sort of marriage arrangement and I just pointed out that has happened as far back as we have historical records. There ARE historical records that Jesus existed. Whether or not he was the son of God (if there really is a God) is anyone's guess and we just have to leave it up to fanatical believers.

[SteeleJoe]

There is zero evidence that he was of divine origin ...

Oh, missing the boat there, too, my skeptic friend. Over 500 witnesses to the resurrection, many of whom recorded their eyewitness accounts in written form. These historical documents comprise a greater wealth of evidence than required for most "accepted" events of ancient history.

Please. There are EASY and obvious rebuttals to your specious but inaccurate oversimplification but we will never be allowed to debate that on this thread (leaving aside the preposterous notion that despite thousands of years of investigation and continuing debate between learned scholars et al, you know the definitive answer) nor should we be.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[Fookhaht]

There is zero evidence that he was of divine origin ...

Oh, missing the boat there, too, my skeptic friend. Over 500 witnesses to the resurrection, many of whom recorded their eyewitness accounts in written form. These historical documents comprise a greater wealth of evidence than required for most "accepted" events of ancient history.

Please. There are EASY and obvious rebuttals to your specious but inaccurate oversimplification but we will never be allowed to debate that on this thread (leaving aside the preposterous notion that despite thousands of years of investigation and continuing debate between learned scholars et al, you know the definitive answer) nor should we be.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Shallow minds sometimes prefer easy (in the sense of "simple") rebuttals. But I think higher of you.

But again, we digress and are in danger of all these posts being flung out into cyber-wasteland by an alert mod.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Fookhaht

[SteeleJoe]

There is zero evidence that he was of divine origin ...

Oh, missing the boat there, too, my skeptic friend. Over 500 witnesses to the resurrection, many of whom recorded their eyewitness accounts in written form. These historical documents comprise a greater wealth of evidence than required for most "accepted" events of ancient history.

Please. There are EASY and obvious rebuttals to your specious but inaccurate oversimplification but we will never be allowed to debate that on this thread (leaving aside the preposterous notion that despite thousands of years of investigation and continuing debate between learned scholars et al, you know the definitive answer) nor should we be.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Shallow minds sometimes prefer easy (in the sense of "simple") rebuttals. But I think higher of you.

Well, thanks I guess. No disrespect intended but the ease of the rebuttal is not a matter of preference (or lack thereof) but merely a product of your weak posit. Start a thread if you like; it would be pointless but perhaps diverting for a while.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[Fookhaht]

Start a thread if you like; it would be pointless but perhaps diverting for a while.

No doubt pointless, due to extremely opposite world-and-life views which tend to skew one's logic and evaluation of extant data.

We may in the same boat, albeit at the stern and bow respectively. Both of us would like to think we're at the stern (with the rudder of course), heading our vessel (and all the observing passengers in the middle) in our direction. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and in full agreement with you--pointless.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Fookhaht