Here's Why Gwb Should Be Supported

[Membrane]

Someone recently asked why GWB should be supported... Good question! Allow me to answer.

Why does GWB need support? Because there is SO MUCH at stake, that's why. It's not that us Americans are rallying behind GWB because we agree with everything he says. What's important is not GWB the man. He's far from perfect, like you, me and everyone else. No, it's not the man that's the important thing, it's what he is trying to get done in the world. This is an extremely important point that some people have consistently failed to understand.

Look, Al-Quaeda is in Iraq. And they're not there to help "liberate their Iraqi brothers". They are not there to help their Palestinian brothers, either. Al-Quaeda's ultimate objective is world domination. Osama Bin Laden has a saviour complex and hates everything that disagrees with his religion and how he thinks things should be. Thus, Al-Quaeda was formed. They are trying to work on the emotions of Muslims world-wide, by inciting hatred and invoking violence. If it works, if they can get the other side to fight back--then they get their "Holy War" they keep talking about. And if they can instigate a holy war, then they can enroll more and more Muslims throughout the world to fight and, eventually take over. The religious nuts will apparently stop at nothing to try to start this holy war. If it takes slitting the throat of a very young Buddhist monk in the south, so be it. If they have to blow themselves up, so be it. The religious leaders behind (including OBL) are masters of manipulating negative emotions like hate and anger. That's why they don't simply come to the table and discuss rationally what they want--they would rather take what they want through emotional manipulation and the best way to do that is to twist and pervert a religion (which is already an unprovable belief system anyway).

They are hoping for enough momentum to grow larger so they can build "Islamic super-states" that can one day be snapped together to form one big world for Allah--but worshipped their way--and you better not get in their way! Osama's Al-Quaeda is hijacking an entire religion to achieve their political objectives. Dig deeper into this and you'll see just how true this is--and frightening. (If you want to learn more of this, read this book or this book).

They want to convert the world to their religion, their form of government, etc. Think I'm wrong? Look at what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. One small example: The international community wanted to help the Afghani people and so we built a soccer arena. For fun, for sport, for friendly competition. The Taliban used it not for games and community-building events, they used it for things like public executions, and for events where they literally sawed off limbs off of still-living, strapped down prisoners, etc. ...(If you think the new BAR CLOSING TIMES in Thailand are repressive, try living in Afghanistan!)

These are crimes against humanity, and they must be stopped. Someone here recently said something to the effect that "revolutions have to be carried out by the people who live in that country". In other words, the U.S. shouldn't be the one to come in and "rescue" the Iraqi people from Saddam. Why not? Isn't it possible to imagine a country with a dictator so powerful, so strong, so repressive that the people CAN'T fight back? Well... that's what the condition was in Iraq. The same condition exists elsewhere in the world (North Korea, for example), and yes--our work is not done. Not to say we are the world's police, but the U.S. can NOT and will NOT sit idly by and allow terrorists to get any more of a foot hold than they already have. ...And no, it is not possible to sit down and rationally debate with a terrorist. Because their religion is being hijacked and perverted, everything for them is based on emotion and not logic, making it impossible to reason with them or to be diplomatic.

So there is serious work to be done. The U.S. doesn't want to step on anyone's right to worship the god of their choice. Or if you want to be an atheist or an agnostic, that's fine too. But we can not allow a radical terrorist group to ignite and incite hatred around the world, resulting in our own deaths and way of life.

You must admit: the American dream of religious freedom, "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" is far better (and more humane and more just and fair), than the repressed way of life suffered by those poor souls living under a tyrant like Saddam or the Taliban regime.

So if you like to bash the U.S. or if you hate GWB, think twice before you throw caution to the wind and indulge yourself. Think about what you are doing before you playfully bad mouth the U.S. and before you needle and harrass and insult the Americans here on this forum. Not to sound "jingoistic" but the U.S. is clearly the world leaders in this fight, literally giving our own hard-earned dollars and spilling our own blood to prevent real oppression in the world. This is real-world, serious stuff--deadly serious and it can't be ignored.

[adjan jb]

Let's take a bet.... In 5 years from here, you will bitterly regret your blind support to Bush. You too should think twice. I'm not bashing the US but you, your naïvety and your impossibility to take all the parameters into account.

[lamphun]

Sorry Membrane but George WBJ is the wrong guy at the wrong time. I still don't know why they attacked Iraq, but it had nothing to do with 9/11

Maybe Kerry can put things right by defending the free world against it's real enemies and get back to the task of getting rid of Al-Quaeda.

[Georgie-Porgie]

Let's take a bet.... In 5 years from here, you will bitterly regret your blind support to Bush. You too should think twice. I'm not bashing the US but you, your naïvety and your impossibility to take all the parameters into account.

I'm sorry, but if we don't support George W. Bush now, in 5 years we might very well be a World that has moved far backwards.

I can tell you that right now, there are a lot of people who wish that Clinton had struck at the Terrorists 5 years ago, and struck hard. These scum never would have had the resources to have mounted 9/11 if we had been chasing them then, the way we are now, and we should have been.

As far as this statement:

I still don't know why they attacked Iraq, but it had nothing to do with 9/11

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. We went into Iraq, because the WMDs that we believed that they possesed, gave us an excuse to try to establish the first real Arab democracy there. If we could make it work, we hoped that Arab youth would start yearning for Freedom and Democracy, rather than a one way ticket to heaven/he11 to better their miserable lives. If we don't support Bush now, the experiment will fail, and we will be back to just hoping that these creeps hit some other city, some other town.

[Membrane]

Let's take a bet.... In 5 years from here, you will bitterly regret your blind support to Bush.

Oh really? And what do you think will happen if we don't do something now? I will tell you what will happen: they will continue to bully their way around the world, will continue to recruit members, will continue to build momentum, making it impossible to stop.

I know you're not being literal but this can't be a simple bar-room BET, adjan jb. We can't afford to treat this as an experiment and wait and see what happens... We have to move and stop this now, before it's too late. The consequences of inaction are far too dire to do nothing.

[adjan jb]

Let's take a bet.... In 5 years from here, you will bitterly regret your blind support to Bush.

Oh really? And what do you think will happen if we don't do something now? I will tell you what will happen: they will continue to bully their way around the world, will continue to recruit members, will continue to build momentum, making it impossible to stop.

I know you're not being literal but this can't be a simple bar-room BET, adjan jb. We can't afford to treat this as an experiment and wait and see what happens... We have to move and stop this now, before it's too late. The consequences of inaction are far too dire to do nothing.

The point is not to remain inactive. But to do what has to be done. I can understand, at a pinch, your intervention in Afghanistan but the invasion of Iraq is incomprehensible. Saddam was probably an ###### but he was not involved in international terrorism, he had no connections with Osama, no WMD and consequently was not a threat to America. (there were other ways to remove him from power if it was that necessary).

The point is to do what has to be done. And what has to be done, has to be done in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (among others). They support, fund and breed terrorism. The roots are there.

If Bush wants the world to believe that he is tackling the real problem, he has to uproot the right shrubs.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I think that Bush did choose the right shrub. Right or wrong in your eyes, the only shrub that we could have gotten away with invading. If we can get this shrub to bloom, the others will follow.

[adjan jb]

I think that Bush did choose the right shrub. Right or wrong in your eyes, the only shrub that we could have gotten away with invading. If we can get this shrub to bloom, the others will follow.

I'm afraid this shrub won't bloom but "boom". And the other will follow suit.

[adjan jb]

It already booms on a daily basis.

[Georgie-Porgie]

You may be right, but the only way to stop the booms, is to boom the boomers, and that is what GWB is going to do.

[adjan jb]

You may be right, but the only way to stop the booms, is to boom the boomers, and that is what GWB is going to do.

you can also cut the ground from under their feet by taking actions against their financiers (Saudi-Arabia, Pakistan, etc...), their arms suppliers (here, I'm afraid we're all guilty, ).

On a different level, you can also grant financial aid to their respective countries in order to sustain a lasting development and to put an end to desperate actions. Well-fed (working) people don't need to resort to violence.

You (we) could also:

- stop looting Third World's resources.

- stop treating it with contempt.

- stop telling it what is right and what is wrong.

- stop supporting Israel's genocidal policies (I know you don't like to hear this one).

- stop making weapons (which, one way or another, always end up in "bad" hands).

- start respecting their differences.

- start closing US bases where they're not welcome.

- and so many more tracks worth exploring

[Jeepz]

adjan jb~

USA == Capitalistic Society. The odds of us refusing to buy (develop/exploit) goods from other countries is about nil. Well, actually, now that you mention it, manufacturing of goods has been taking a long slow dump in the US due to labor costs. I suppose those goods that can be manufactured via robotics might be exempt, but otherwise, all the clothing and most of everything else seems to be done some where else.

So maybe you are pointing the finger at the wrong people. Tell the Cambodians/Thais/Myanmar/India/etc/etc/etc that they darn well should quit exploiting those resources and selling them to the wicked US market.

We should quit exploiting those darn poor grape pickers in France and the smelly wage slaves shackled to their cheese vats in Stilton (or Wymondham or where ever they are), we should darn well start behaving toward the banana pickers of Panama and the Honduras. Oops, I guess they won't be around that much longer anyway due to the banana blight (eat 'em while we still got 'em).

Your argument is simply we shouldn't buy cheap and sell dear. The church tried that line during the middle ages, sort of worked as long as someone was watching really really close. But as soon as you took your eyes of them, they'd being back at it.

Now do you think if the US closed it's weapons factories (Colt and so on) that bad guys wouldn't have weapons. Really? Think the Chinese and North Koreans and who ever owns a good set of stamping machines and mills won't take up the slack P.D.Q. ?

Stop treating the world with contempt. Hmm. Okay. I promise. Zero contempt. Except for the really really contemptable, but I'll check with you first, right?

Israel. Personally I believe its all the Italians fault. They were the ones that kicked the Israelis out in the first place, they should be taking the blame on this one. But should we abandon Israel to the whims of their neighbors. Uhmm, probably not.

Stop saying what we think is right and wrong. 'Scuse, who the effenyouseekay made you god? You whine, we whine, shove a cork in it! (aka Get over it.)

Start closing bases where they are not wanted. I rather agree with that. Actually, I even think we should close some where they are wanted. But I'm more of an isolationist than most.

Most of us respect differences. Doesn't mean I will french kiss a fag. (Ooops!) I mean I won't exchange embraces with an alternatively defined individual. I noticed how respectful the French are chosing to be with their kids at school. <evil grin>

And not to get off the track, I'd love to share a bottle of 10 year old wine and watch something. I guess it could be trees grow but I'd rather watch girls sunbathe.

Jeepz

[davidm]

the best way to do that is to twist and pervert a religion (which is already an unprovable belief system anyway).

Aren't all religions based on an unprovable belief system? Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with what you've written. You can't negotiate or even co-exist with these people. You have to take them out - either by killing or imprisonment - and that is a gradual process with many reverses along the way. This is one of those rare occasions in life where nearly everything is black or white. The "black" must be removed at all costs.

Also, you have to deal with the root causes of the support terrorists like Al Quaeda and Hamas receive. On this front, GWB is trying harder than any other American President I can think of, but still not trying hard enough.

there were other ways to remove him from power if it was that necessary

There were other ways, and the US Government tried them first. In fact, previous administrations been trying for more than 10 years. When the Americans tried enlisting the UN, they were obstructed by people bribed by Saddam Hussein, led by the French.

The French and Germans also obstructed the campaign against the Iraqi regime because they have aspirations for leading the EU as a superpower rival to America and need to distance themselves from their former protector and ally in order to achieve their goal.

stop supporting Israel's genocidal policies (I know you don't like to hear this one)

There are a lot of things I find repugnant about the current Israeli Government, and they are guilty of real crimes. That said, if I had to stake my life on the benevolence of Israel or any group of arabs you care to mention, I'd choose the Israelis.

stop telling it what is right and what is wrong

No, I won't. I'm not going to refrain from telling someone they are wrong just because they are from the third world and it might offend them.

stop looting Third World's resources

A fine sentiment, but exploitation is part of human nature. Thais exploit Cambodia, Burma and Laos every chance they get. The west exploits the third world. I'm all in favour as I'm closer to the top of the food chain.

- stop making weapons (which, one way or another, always end up in "bad" hands).- stop treating it with contempt. - start respecting their differences.

- start closing US bases where they're not welcome.

Agreed. But we both know it won't happen.

you can also cut the ground from under their feet by taking actions against their financiers (Saudi-Arabia, Pakistan, etc...), their arms suppliers (here, I'm afraid we're all guilty,  ).

On a different level, you can also grant financial aid to their respective countries in order to sustain a lasting development and to put an end to desperate actions. Well-fed (working) people don't need to resort to violence.

This is being done. BTW, one of the purposes of the Iraq war was to put in place a government which would ensure peace and stability in the long term and thus cut off support for terrorism.

Israel. Personally I believe its all the Italians fault. They were the ones that kicked the Israelis out in the first place, they should be taking the blame on this one. But should we abandon Israel to the whims of their neighbors. Uhmm, probably not.

Not so. The Romans did not kick the Jews out of Israel. They did lead to a migration of Jews to other parts of the empire. Jews remained in Jerusalem until the Crusades.

That small detail aside (which was probably a joke), I agree with Jeepz.

Maybe Kerry can put things right by defending the free world against it's real enemies and get back to the task of getting rid of Al-Quaeda.

What has Kerry achieved in 30 years as a politician, including 19 years as a US senator which makes you believe he's the man for the job? Also, I doubt very much he'll get elected.

Membrane, Georgie and Jeepz have put forward some very sound arguments on this issue and I fail to see anything of note from the other camp. If that's the best the liberals can come up with, maybe they should stick to discussing who is the best candidate for the Democrats.

[Basher]

Let's take a bet.... In 5 years from here, you will bitterly regret your blind support to Bush. You too should think twice. I'm not bashing the US but you, your naïvety and your impossibility to take all the parameters into account.

I'm sorry, but if we don't support George W. Bush now, in 5 years we might very well be a World that has moved far backwards.

I can tell you that right now, there are a lot of people who wish that Clinton had struck at the Terrorists 5 years ago, and struck hard. These scum never would have had the resources to have mounted 9/11 if we had been chasing them then, the way we are now, and we should have been.

As far as this statement:

I still don't know why they attacked Iraq, but it had nothing to do with 9/11

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. We went into Iraq, because the WMDs that we believed that they possesed, gave us an excuse to try to establish the first real Arab democracy there. If we could make it work, we hoped that Arab youth would start yearning for Freedom and Democracy, rather than a one way ticket to heaven/he11 to better their miserable lives. If we don't support Bush now, the experiment will fail, and we will be back to just hoping that these creeps hit some other city, some other town.

Georgie Boy, (or any other rufty tufty septics)

Maybe you could tell us why Daddy Bush never continued into Bagdad in Gulf War part 1 and finish the job properly, 1st time around?

And also, I have a feeling that Egypt IS already the 1st democratic Arab State, knocking your "try to establish the first real Arab democracy there" line for six mate.

Basher

[Basher]

We should quit exploiting those darn poor grape pickers in France and the smelly wage slaves shackled to their cheese vats in Stilton (or Wymondham or where ever they are), we should darn well start behaving toward the banana pickers of Panama and the Honduras. Oops, I guess they won't be around that much longer anyway due to the banana blight (eat 'em while we still got 'em).

Jeepz,

I hate to be the pedant, but Stilton is an english cheese, and wymondham is a quaint Norfolk market town not really noted for its cheeses, though it proberly sells them at the local market.

It does however have a very good grammer school, and has some very nice 17th century architecture.

I am sure it had slaves at one time, but we didn't call them slaves back then, they were surfs, and were tied to local farms...

Just thought I would let you know....

[Bluecat]

Georgie Boy, (or any other rufty tufty septics)

Maybe you could tell us why Daddy Bush never continued into Bagdad in Gulf War part 1 and finish the job properly, 1st time around?

And also, I have a feeling that Egypt IS already the 1st democratic Arab State, knocking your "try to establish the first real Arab democracy there" line for six mate.

Basher

Hmm,

Why did Daddy Bush stop?

Maybe he is smarter, maybe he is dumber than his son. Whatever way, not easy to have a definite opinion (I mean your opinion will probably be very different if not opposite depending on what side of the Atlantic ocean you are from).

Democratic Arab countries

Define democracy, please,...

[Georgie-Porgie]

Basher, I did qualify that as the first real democracy, and I believe (not know, believe) that the reason the George I didn't go on into Baghdad, was exactly the reason that he gave. He was afraid that that it might destabilize the region, and at that time, we didn't want to take the chance. We were hoping that if we ignored terrorism for long enough, it would just go away.

This is one reason that I am so skeptical of the "gentleman"s "Blood for Oil" claims. We were so close in Gulf War I, and the war was already sanctioned by the UN. If we needed their oil that badly, why not just keep going the first time?

[davidm]

And also, I have a feeling that Egypt IS already the 1st democratic Arab State, knocking your "try to establish the first real Arab democracy there" line for six mate.

Basher

The last time Eqypt had a presidential election, there was only one candidate on the ballot sheet: Hosni Mubarak. No real opposition parties are allowed to operate. The country might have a less repressive regime than the one Iraqis endured under Saddam Hussein, but it's still a long way from being a democracy.

The most democratic arab state is Jordan, which has reasonably free and fair elections and even allows women candidates. It is also relatively stable and peaceful. Lebanon is almost a complete democracy, but about half the arabs there are christians and the people have realised that voting for change is better than killing your neighbour to achieve it.

[Basher]

And also, I have a feeling that Egypt IS already the 1st democratic Arab State, knocking your "try to establish the first real Arab democracy there" line for six mate.

Basher

The last time Eqypt had a presidential election, there was only one candidate on the ballot sheet: Hosni Mubarak. No real opposition parties are allowed to operate. The country might have a less repressive regime than the one Iraqis endured under Saddam Hussein, but it's still a long way from being a democracy.

The most democratic arab state is Jordan, which has reasonably free and fair elections and even allows women candidates. It is also relatively stable and peaceful. Lebanon is almost a complete democracy, but about half the arabs there are christians and the people have realised that voting for change is better than killing your neighbour to achieve it.

Ok David, thanks for that snippet putting me straight.

i saw a few things on the news here about Beruit lately, looks like the kind of place to go for a good skiing holiday, weird thinking of the Lebenon having a ski resort....

George, I know you are on the rampage with the Gentleman still, but he does have a bit of a point in that the people advising Bush do appear to be able to make quite a lot of money out of this war gravy train, Cheney appearing as the ringleaderand with KBR and Halliburtons involvement in all things war and oil-like, doesn't it make you wonder... who are the real winners?

Maybe Bush is the good christian Knight Templar on a white charger, but it does make you wonder who is giving him the bottom line...???

I personally have a feeling Bushy is a good christian and is doing what he thinks is the right thing, but like I say who are the 'new world order' croneys that are advising him.

Basher

[Basher]

Basher, I did qualify that as the first real democracy, and I believe (not know, believe) that the reason the George I didn't go on into Baghdad, was exactly the reason that he gave. He was afraid that that it might destabilize the region, and at that time, we didn't want to take the chance. We were hoping that if we ignored terrorism for long enough, it would just go away.

This is one reason that I am so skeptical of the "gentleman"s "Blood for Oil" claims. We were so close in Gulf War I, and the war was already sanctioned by the UN. If we needed their oil that badly, why not just keep going the first time?

The thing is George, and I am not by any means siding with the Gent, he is his own executioner.

10 years ago the US didn't need Iraqi oil, it had quite a few more irons in the fire back then, but as you know time moves on and alliances come and go. This being one of the reasons the US has such a hold on Nigeria now, it is the 5th largest producer of oil in the world and is certainly a ###### of a lot easier to deal with as all you need to do is shuffle a few brief cases of cash under the desk and everyone is happy.

There are a lot of, what you might call 'independants' here and you could say that 11% of all oil sales are, ...shadey deals... if you know what I mean. This sort of wrankles the old tax man a bit back home in the US and he don't like being wrankled... note Enron etc...

Anyway the point being is that Arab oil is the good stuff, you can use it for more manufactuing uses than the lighter european oils which are best used for petroleum products.

Surely it is easier to buy oil from a country you control, or at least be paid for in oil for the sevices you are supplying, rather than deal with a country you don't want to be seen to be dealing with under the table.

just a thought... or 2

Basher

[Jeepz]

Basher~

Thanks, yes I know that Stilton is in merry old England. I was trying to "diversify" my example. Stilton, which is the town the cheese is named after, isn't where it was produced. Actually I haven't a clue where they produce Stilton cheese at the moment, but a history of the cheese mentioned that it was being produced at Wymondham (quite some time back, apparently).

And the phrase "Wage Slave" is popular here in the States, I suppose it could be translated as "Wage Surf". It traditionally focuses on jobs paid by the hour versus salaried jobs where one is paid by the month and not required to punch a time clock.

Yawn! Sorry, I stayed up late last night to watch a special on the life of the Bard and then another on the various contending factions about if the Bard was really the Bard or if he was a frontman for The Something of Oxford, or Francis Bacon, or Christopher Marlowe. And then I had to finish a Josephine Tey mystery novel about the real murderer(s) of the Edward IV two sons. After all that I feel almost English myself (and a tad bit less critical of Richard III).

Jeepz

[Georgie-Porgie]

George, I know you are on the rampage with the Gentleman still, but he does have a bit of a point in that the people advising Bush do appear to be able to make quite a lot of money out of this war gravy train, Cheney appearing as the ringleaderand with KBR and Halliburtons involvement in all things war and oil-like, doesn't it make you wonder...  who are the real winners?

Maybe Bush is the good christian Knight Templar on a white charger, but it does make you wonder who is giving him the bottom line...???

I personally have a feeling Bushy is a good christian and is doing what he thinks is the right thing, but like I say who are the 'new world order' croneys that are advising him.

Basher

Now, this is something I could at least think about. The truth is that when Europeans call Americans "stupid", maybe what they really mean is naive, and perhaps I could be accused of that. I don't feel naive, but, on the other hand, I can't believe that the American Government is intrinsically evil, which the lefties seem sure of.

I find it very difficult to believe that our elected leaders, usually men and women who are wealthy beyond belief, are so greedy that they would go to war with another country simply in order to get even richer.

Yes, if a war is necessary, and one can make little profit on the side, that I can understand, but that is not what the opposition are saying. "Blood for Oil" is their cry, and I, for one, simply can't believe it.

[Bluecat]

Now, this is something I could at least think about. The truth is that when Europeans call Americans "stupid", maybe what they really mean is naive, and perhaps I could be accused of that.

Finally, you see the light,...

I find it very difficult to believe that our elected leaders, usually men and women who are wealthy beyond belief, are so greedy that they would go to war with another country simply in order to get even richer

######, somebody switched it off,...

[adjan jb]

Now, this is something I could at least think about. The truth is that when Europeans call Americans "stupid", maybe what they really mean is naive, and perhaps I could be accused of that.

Finally, you see the light,...

I find it very difficult to believe that our elected leaders, usually men and women who are wealthy beyond belief, are so greedy that they would go to war with another country simply in order to get even richer

######, somebody switched it off,...

[Georgie-Porgie]

Well, all that could be the way things really are, but I know that Americans, and the American Government, are no more evil than anyone else's people or Government. We just happen to on the top of the heap at the moment, so, all that means to me is all the conspiracy theories are true, He11 is our daily lives on Earth, and there is no point to anything, at all.

Go ahead and kill yourself and get it over!

[Basher]

By the way Jeepz, i do enjoy your posts, always well written, keep it up

[Basher]

Well, all that could be the way things really are, but I know that Americans, and the American Government, are no more evil than anyone else's people or Government. We just happen to on the top of the heap at the moment, so, all that means to me is all the conspiracy theories are true, He11 is our daily lives on Earth, and there is no point to anything, at all.

Go ahead and kill yourself and get it over!

Georgie Boy,

don't be so down hearted, lets try and think that the glass as half full not half empty.

Yes the US may be at the top of the pile right now, but where else it there to go.... I understand the suicidal tendency if all that is facing you is a slippery slide down to obscurity, us Brits know that already, we had our moment, you lot are having yours, it may well be the chinese next.

The best thing about all these 'empires' and 'agressive pacts' is that enivitably they fail, fade away etc. look at the Roman Empire, they become victims of their own beaurocracy. Even the glorious British Empire, of course over an Imperial time scale ours was short lived but it was based on the shear might of the Royal Navy.

Anyway the point I am making is that decline is inevitable, it may not be in our generation but it will happen and there will be another 'trumped up' little nation that grows and grows until it too can rule with an iron fist.

The US rule will end, it will drown in a sea of paperwork and Tax evasion, those who run it are not Generals and Admirals, they are businessmen. pure and simple and are subject to the same greed that as any businessman faces.

The real leaders, the generals and Admirals lead in a more honerable way, Japs call it Bushido, but it is still the same. Honour.

[Georgie-Porgie]

Well, that isn't exactly what I was getting at.

What I'm trying to say is, if the Government of the U.S. is as evil and corrupt as the left makes out, what chance does humanity in general have?

All one has to do is look at the way that the left is acting during the Presidential Campaign in the US right now to know that they are no better than the right.

I don't have any doubt that America may not be perfect, but we are the best "leader" that the world is likely to get for a long time, and if all the conspiracy theories and lefty propaganda are correct, than America and mankind itself are so intrinsically sneaky, rotten and twisted that we might as well give up all hope of anyone ever governing anywhere righteously.

We should forget about trying to be a benign Super-Power. We should stop fooling around. We should just start strapping the Chiracs, Jesse Jacksons and Michael Moores of the world to live cannons/missle launchers and firing them off at the Arabs, like you Limeys used to do to your enemies in your hey-day!

[adjan jb]

Here's why GWB should be supported...

He often reels.

[lamphun]

Here's why George Bush needs support

www.markfiore.com/animation/reconst.swf