The Thai-Baht And The Future Of Farangs In Thailand

[StreetCowboy]

Neversure I think by now everyone can see you are trying to make the point that the west is the supreme innovator of the century and that Thailand is not and cannot be credited for a single item Everything that is good in Asia was bestowed upon them thanks to the western gods generosity of sharing their technology You have to now consider a different view - innovations come in many form and not just technology. Asians have brought great innovations in the different food & cuisines we enjoy today and enhancing our medical well being through alternative treatments ; the service business / hospitality business will not look the same if the west innovated every service standard. The Asian brought refinement, genuine care and smiles that warm the hearts when you step into a hotel or restaurant. - Asians are not interested in being credited for every innovation. They have innovated things in their days and they are fine if the world uses them or if they use other cultures innovations to further their wealth and success - Asians have attributes the west can learn from such as humility, ability to work hard and save. China has $300 trillion in reserves and even Thailand is richer in terms of $$$ than most western governments currently in debt - In most of the examples you raised its not a foreigner investor that is rich. It's the local Asian businesses. Using Thailand as an example, I hope Mr CP will not read your post and deny you access to his empire of 7-11, using his Internet service and buying his products under the CP brand or using his agro feed business that probably brought you the fish vegetables and neat your wife is using. If u are only buying imported stuff from Rimping I guess you are still safe. After all the Asians have been selectively eating horse meat and its suppose to be leaner and tastier Of maybe Mr CPN may not welcome you anymore in his hotels and his shopping malls ? Every Asian city has their own rich families that have benefited from the growth and they are very low profile and rightly so seeing that most have their roots from china and they know the art of making the biggest deals in the world is to stay in the background. Maybe you like to read up on what Li Ka Shing , Pansy Ho, Salim Brothers. After all the richest man in Asia Li Ka Shing built his empire selling fake flowers and still seiko watches. I don't believe most of his current wealth has anything to do with western innovations, more a combination of guts, entrepreunship, vision and ability to stare risks in its eyes and not bat.

We also invented paragraphs.

[NeverSure]

Neversure I think by now everyone can see you are trying to make the point that the west is the supreme innovator of the century and that Thailand is not and cannot be credited for a single item Everything that is good in Asia was bestowed upon them thanks to the western gods generosity of sharing their technology You have to now consider a different view - innovations come in many form and not just technology. Asians have brought great innovations in the different food & cuisines we enjoy today and enhancing our medical well being through alternative treatments ; the service business / hospitality business will not look the same if the west innovated every service standard. The Asian brought refinement, genuine care and smiles that warm the hearts when you step into a hotel or restaurant. - Asians are not interested in being credited for every innovation. They have innovated things in their days and they are fine if the world uses them or if they use other cultures innovations to further their wealth and success - Asians have attributes the west can learn from such as humility, ability to work hard and save. China has $300 trillion in reserves and even Thailand is richer in terms of $$$ than most western governments currently in debt - In most of the examples you raised its not a foreigner investor that is rich. It's the local Asian businesses. Using Thailand as an example, I hope Mr CP will not read your post and deny you access to his empire of 7-11, using his Internet service and buying his products under the CP brand or using his agro feed business that probably brought you the fish vegetables and neat your wife is using. If u are only buying imported stuff from Rimping I guess you are still safe. After all the Asians have been selectively eating horse meat and its suppose to be leaner and tastier Of maybe Mr CPN may not welcome you anymore in his hotels and his shopping malls ? Every Asian city has their own rich families that have benefited from the growth and they are very low profile and rightly so seeing that most have their roots from china and they know the art of making the biggest deals in the world is to stay in the background. Maybe you like to read up on what Li Ka Shing , Pansy Ho, Salim Brothers. After all the richest man in Asia Li Ka Shing built his empire selling fake flowers and still seiko watches. I don't believe most of his current wealth has anything to do with western innovations, more a combination of guts, entrepreunship, vision and ability to stare risks in its eyes and not bat.

Anything else?

The Thai-Chinese are forging ahead, yes. And please don't anyone say I'm racist. Asian is one race. I already said that the Chinese are more innovative, so what's your point?

In every third world country I know of, there is a wealthy elite. This is a big part of what keeps them third world. The masses are cut off. So what's the point?

Thailand makes good food and eats horse meat? How does that compare to inventing the smartphone or the software to operate it or the equipment to manufacture it?

You lost me.

[LawrenceChee]

I agree I must have lost you there.

Stay happy in your knowledge that innovations were created by the west.

[NeverSure]

I agree I must have lost you there. Stay happy in your knowledge that innovations were created by the west.

LOL. OK.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think that people who keep singing the praises of the economies of some Asian countries, especially Thailand forget the most important thing. Thailand is, with its new manufacturing, nothing more than a robot for the West. It can manufacture only what is developed in the West, using methods developed in the West. It needs products and innovation from the West to complete its cycle.

Even the Asian demand for its products is generated by money made by manufacturing things for other countries, which money can be traced to the West.

The West is, to this day, driving innovation and therefore demand. Where did Unix/Linux/ and now Android come from? Who is updating Linux and its variant Android? Who invents the devices to run it? Who is driving the internet? Who is driving computer innovation?

I walk through a market in Thailand, and almost every modern product I see has a Western or Japanese name on it. Even Japan has only mastered the art of parroting the West's products. It would be the first to go down without the West for a customer.

Who is making the BIG money from all of these innovations? Thailand? Phhhhhht.

It is not the robot factories. You'll got know that Ford does not ship sheet metal screws and washers and plastic fasteners from the USA. It is Somchai who makes sheet metal screws that the robot factory buys. Then Somchai has a factory and employees and he hires a saleslady who goes out and sells screws to Thai people. And as a result of her selling screws Somchai buys another factory and employs more people who eat in Rayong at Sombat's restaurant every day and Sombat hires another waitress and....... See I grew up in Detroit. I am going to die in the Detroit of Asia. You want to make some cash? Open up a machine tool factory in Rayong. I been there before.

You missed my point.

No one in Thailand has ever invented a machine screw, or a machine to make one, or even a use for one. All of the technology that is being used in Thailand was developed in the West. As new technology is invented in the West, it is moved to Asia.

The people who are making the big money on these things are the creators, and the investors who bring it to Asia.

Let me remind you that in Detroit's heyday, wages were good enough that only one adult needed to work. The stay-at-home mother was the common thing. Thais are not seeing that kind of prosperity because the real money doesn't belong to Thailand. It is foreign investment.

You point is well taken about starting a support business for auto manufacturing. It's a good idea. But that would be more foreign investment using foreign technology and foreign business sense and the big bucks if any would go to the foreigner.

At some point it might do to consider that Thais are not innovators. They aren't even good copiers like the Chinese are. They are followers, and not real fast even at that. Most of Thai investment is foreign investment with foreign ideas and foreign technology.

That didn't happen in the West where the innovation happened as needed and is still happening. Just about everything a Thai rides in or on, or holds in his hand, or wears, or uses to communicate is current Western technology. Thais aren't even copycats. They are followers.

Nebuchadnezzar II invented the screw and he is no longer making any money from it.

You missed my point. Ford started the ball rolling and thousands of Thai factories are not only selling things to Ford but other people as well including Thais and Chinese.

As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years. The Thai economy has been great for the last 10 years and with few exceptions you can't say that about the West.

GDP is the sum total of things sold by Thailand and that has been going up for the last 10 years.

Your motives for fabricating economic fact escape me but Thailand and many other countries in Asia have been doing better than the West for the past 10 years.

This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand. It you think the US dollar is a good investment re the Thai Baht go ahead and make your case. But I got to tell you no other economist that I know of is preaching get your money out of Baht and into US dollars because of innovation.

[StreetCowboy]

...

This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand. It you think the US dollar is a good investment re the Thai Baht go ahead and make your case. But I got to tell you no other economist that I know of is preaching get your money out of Baht and into US dollars because of innovation.

I don't think buying dollars would be a good investment in innovation. And I don't think buying baht would be a good investment in production.

However, I might be tempted to buy shares in Ford, because of their innovation, or because of their overseas production. I'd not invest a large proportion of my savings in specific Thai equities, though...

I don't think that the decline in the value of the dollar is related to balance of trade issues, but rather the transfer of wealth from savers to borrowers through inflationary printing, and the corresponding cutting of salaries and benefits. And similarly the pound, though that is the topic for another thread.

Anyway, it's a positive policy of the US government, I believe, to competitively devalue the dollar - more or less the offence that they have accused the Chinese of, for many years

SC

[NeverSure]

I think that people who keep singing the praises of the economies of some Asian countries, especially Thailand forget the most important thing. Thailand is, with its new manufacturing, nothing more than a robot for the West. It can manufacture only what is developed in the West, using methods developed in the West. It needs products and innovation from the West to complete its cycle.

Even the Asian demand for its products is generated by money made by manufacturing things for other countries, which money can be traced to the West.

The West is, to this day, driving innovation and therefore demand. Where did Unix/Linux/ and now Android come from? Who is updating Linux and its variant Android? Who invents the devices to run it? Who is driving the internet? Who is driving computer innovation?

I walk through a market in Thailand, and almost every modern product I see has a Western or Japanese name on it. Even Japan has only mastered the art of parroting the West's products. It would be the first to go down without the West for a customer.

Who is making the BIG money from all of these innovations? Thailand? Phhhhhht.

It is not the robot factories. You'll got know that Ford does not ship sheet metal screws and washers and plastic fasteners from the USA. It is Somchai who makes sheet metal screws that the robot factory buys. Then Somchai has a factory and employees and he hires a saleslady who goes out and sells screws to Thai people. And as a result of her selling screws Somchai buys another factory and employs more people who eat in Rayong at Sombat's restaurant every day and Sombat hires another waitress and....... See I grew up in Detroit. I am going to die in the Detroit of Asia. You want to make some cash? Open up a machine tool factory in Rayong. I been there before.

You missed my point.

No one in Thailand has ever invented a machine screw, or a machine to make one, or even a use for one. All of the technology that is being used in Thailand was developed in the West. As new technology is invented in the West, it is moved to Asia.

The people who are making the big money on these things are the creators, and the investors who bring it to Asia.

Let me remind you that in Detroit's heyday, wages were good enough that only one adult needed to work. The stay-at-home mother was the common thing. Thais are not seeing that kind of prosperity because the real money doesn't belong to Thailand. It is foreign investment.

You point is well taken about starting a support business for auto manufacturing. It's a good idea. But that would be more foreign investment using foreign technology and foreign business sense and the big bucks if any would go to the foreigner.

At some point it might do to consider that Thais are not innovators. They aren't even good copiers like the Chinese are. They are followers, and not real fast even at that. Most of Thai investment is foreign investment with foreign ideas and foreign technology.

That didn't happen in the West where the innovation happened as needed and is still happening. Just about everything a Thai rides in or on, or holds in his hand, or wears, or uses to communicate is current Western technology. Thais aren't even copycats. They are followers.

Nebuchadnezzar II invented the screw and he is no longer making any money from it.

You missed my point. Ford started the ball rolling and thousands of Thai factories are not only selling things to Ford but other people as well including Thais and Chinese.

As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years. The Thai economy has been great for the last 10 years and with few exceptions you can't say that about the West.

GDP is the sum total of things sold by Thailand and that has been going up for the last 10 years.

Your motives for fabricating economic fact escape me but Thailand and many other countries in Asia have been doing better than the West for the past 10 years.

This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand. It you think the US dollar is a good investment re the Thai Baht go ahead and make your case. But I got to tell you no other economist that I know of is preaching get your money out of Baht and into US dollars because of innovation.

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

[chiangmaikelly]

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

10 years ago I took all of my money out of Western banks and sold all of my property in Western countries. I put all of my money into banks in Thailand and purchased property that an American may legally purchase in Thailand.

If I had left my money in Western banks and not sold my property in the West do you think I would be better off?

Do you have any idea how much better off I am in Thailand right now as a result of my decision?

Lets say I had a million. Had I left it in the West I would now have half a million.

You have never posted any proof that is accepted by a credit rating agency that implies that Thailand is lending too much money. Do you want to check what the credit agencies think about Thailand's credit rating and future?

So to sum it up. When you say proof I think of things like the UK used to have a AAA credit rating now they don't. Thailand however has the same credit rating they had last year. It didn't go down and the rating agencies consider Thailand's future stable. Coups and floods don't seem to bother it. Proof is the USD used to buy 40 Baht and now it buys 30.

[NeverSure]

10 years ago I took all of my money out of Western banks and sold all of my property in Western countries. I put all of my money into banks in Thailand and purchased property that an American may legally purchase in Thailand.

If I had left my money in Western banks and not sold my property in the West do you think I would be better off?

Do you have any idea how much better off I am in Thailand right now as a result of my decision?

Lets say I had a million. Had I left it in the West I would now have half a million.

You have never posted any proof that is accepted by a credit rating agency that implies that Thailand is lending too much money. Do you want to check what the credit agencies think about Thailand's credit rating and future?

So to sum it up. When you say proof I think of things like the UK used to have a AAA credit rating now they don't. Thailand however has the same credit rating they had last year. It didn't go down and the rating agencies consider Thailand's future stable. Coups and floods don't seem to bother it. Proof is the USD used to buy 40 Baht and now it buys 30.

There you go again. Determined to believe that what happened in the last ten years is an accurate predictor of the next ten years.

I'm not debating what happened in the past ten years. YOU were the one who just pointed out that this thread is about the FUTURE of farangs and the Thai baht. If I could have all of my life known that what happened yesterday would happen tomorrow, I'd have all of the money in the world.

Credit ratings next? Thailand is BBB+. The US is Aaa, UK is Aa1, Aus. and Canada are Aaa.

Somehow you fail to grasp the insignificance of the Thai economy on a world scale. Right now the baht is rising because so much of it is being bought by foreigners for investment into Thailand straight into a real estate and credit bubble. Part of that is due to low interest rates in the West. I can't get squat for interest in a US bank, so why wouldn't I put my money into baht, creating more demand for baht, but earning myself some interest?

If I could predict the timing of the future, I'd do just that. It's about timing.

Now why don't we just calm down, give it five years, and see who's right?

Peace.

[chiangmaikelly]

10 years ago I took all of my money out of Western banks and sold all of my property in Western countries. I put all of my money into banks in Thailand and purchased property that an American may legally purchase in Thailand.

If I had left my money in Western banks and not sold my property in the West do you think I would be better off?

Do you have any idea how much better off I am in Thailand right now as a result of my decision?

Lets say I had a million. Had I left it in the West I would now have half a million.

You have never posted any proof that is accepted by a credit rating agency that implies that Thailand is lending too much money. Do you want to check what the credit agencies think about Thailand's credit rating and future?

So to sum it up. When you say proof I think of things like the UK used to have a AAA credit rating now they don't. Thailand however has the same credit rating they had last year. It didn't go down and the rating agencies consider Thailand's future stable. Coups and floods don't seem to bother it. Proof is the USD used to buy 40 Baht and now it buys 30.

There you go again. Determined to believe that what happened in the last ten years is an accurate predictor of the next ten years.

I'm not debating what happened in the past ten years. YOU were the one who just pointed out that this thread is about the FUTURE of farangs and the Thai baht. If I could have all of my life known that what happened yesterday would happen tomorrow, I'd have all of the money in the world.

Credit ratings next? Thailand is BBB+. The US is Aaa, UK is Aa1, Aus. and Canada are Aaa.

Somehow you fail to grasp the insignificance of the Thai economy on a world scale. Right now the baht is rising because so much of it is being bought by foreigners for investment into Thailand straight into a real estate and credit bubble. Part of that is due to low interest rates in the West. I can't get squat for interest in a US bank, so why wouldn't I put my money into baht, creating more demand for baht, but earning myself some interest?

If I could predict the timing of the future, I'd do just that. It's about timing.

Now why don't we just calm down, give it five years, and see who's right?

Peace.

The past always predicts the future. Who you going to trust? A doctor who has had nothing but successful operations or one who has had nothing but failures. By your reasoning I guess the one who has failed because he might have a change of luck.

One, if I wanted a high rate of interest I would go to an Aussie bank or Brazil and two foreigners can't buy real estate in Thailand. I'm not an expert but aren't the land speculators going to the US and Italy right now?

[HardenedSoul]

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

[petermik]

Enough whinging.

If people can't afford to stay here with the pound in its current condition, they should either find a way to earn money in local readies or GO.

The financial woes of a handful of expats on fixed incomes being squeezed by exchange rates are somewhere near the bottom of the list of priorities for he Bank of England and the British government.

Your sympathy to the above ex-pats is overwhelming,I hope you never fall on hard times-have a nice day now

[NeverSure]

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

The farming part is a tiny part of Thailand's economy and the product which can be grown such as rice and corn aren't real profitable on the scale it's done. Thailand is tiny on a world scale!!!

Not only that, but the Thai government has screwed the pooch for the past couple of years for any national profit on rice. There is SO much mafia-like corruption in the distribution chains of everything from fertilizer to seeds to farm product prices that the average farmer doesn't stand a chance.

Thailand is too damn corrupt to fly with the eagles.

Edited March 5, 2013 by NeverSure

[chiangmaikelly]

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

[StreetCowboy]

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

CMK tells us that the Thai economy is based on it's industrial exports, which contribute more to GDP and substantially more to exports than the agricultural sector, even though that sector employs more people.

But so far, no-one has really shown any comparison between the Thai economy and other comparable econoomies. The comparison has always been with the US and the UK, which are both deliberately trying to devalue their currency - with some success, it appears.

SC

[chiangmaikelly]

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

CMK tells us that the Thai economy is based on it's industrial exports, which contribute more to GDP and substantially more to exports than the agricultural sector, even though that sector employs more people.

But so far, no-one has really shown any comparison between the Thai economy and other comparable econoomies. The comparison has always been with the US and the UK, which are both deliberately trying to devalue their currency - with some success, it appears.

SC

Good idea try countries close by like Burma, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

[inthepink]

I think the general thread is that Thailand is far more expensive for the Brits today than it was five/six years ago.Thats why far more Brits are going to countries such as Cambodia as you get far more value there than Thailand.This is a discussion forum and people are entitled to their opinion.

Not so difficult to understand is it, when they get almost half the amount of Thai Baht for their Pound from what they got 5 years ago.

Oh by the way, I haven't followed the Cambodian exchange rates, but I guess overthere they get also almost half from what they might have received 5 years ago.

GBP high for past 5 years was 67 range but, last 3 years really never saw much over 50GBP THB.jpg

Here is the Cambodian riel exchange rates for 5 yearsGBP KHR.jpg

Thanks for the information Mania.Unless actual graphs are shown its very easy for other contributors to talk without actual facts.It shows the the £ v Cambodian Riel has decreased far less these past 5 years than the £ has against the Thai Baht which proves my opening point that Thailand is far more expensive to visit than 5-6 years ago.Thanks again.

According to those graphs, the pound has gone from approx. 8 to 6 Cambodian Riels in the past 5 years and from approx. 60 to 45 baht during the same period. In both cases that is a drop of 25% so what you are saying is complete rubbish. Maths not your strong point?

Over BT70 to the £ in 2007-less than 45 today makes it more like 35% in my calculations.

2007 was six years ago not five, so how is that relevant? I am going from the beginning of the 5-year charts that were posted (it was actually 63 but I rounded down, so you could argue that the real figure is approx. 28.5%) - if you can find a point where it was 70 baht to the pound in the last 5 years, please show me where it is.

Edited March 5, 2013 by inthepink

[HardenedSoul]

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

The farming part is a tiny part of Thailand's economy and the product which can be grown such as rice and corn aren't real profitable on the scale it's done. Thailand is tiny on a world scale!!!

Not only that, but the Thai government has screwed the pooch for the past couple of years for any national profit on rice. There is SO much mafia-like corruption in the distribution chains of everything from fertilizer to seeds to farm product prices that the average farmer doesn't stand a chance.

Thailand is too damn corrupt to fly with the eagles.

With the global demand for food expected to increase far into the future, you can pretty much guarantee that profits from its production will increase too.

Enough whinging.

If people can't afford to stay here with the pound in its current condition, they should either find a way to earn money in local readies or GO.

The financial woes of a handful of expats on fixed incomes being squeezed by exchange rates are somewhere near the bottom of the list of priorities for he Bank of England and the British government.

Your sympathy to the above ex-pats is overwhelming,I hope you never fall on hard times-have a nice day now

I'm plenty sympathetic. I'm just saying that instead of whinging about it, do something about it cos the BoE and the UK government don't give a toss. It's not like people don't have a choice, is it?

Frankly, given the negativity about Thailand permeating this forum day-to-day, I'd have thought more would be happy to piss off anyway.

[inthepink]

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

CMK tells us that the Thai economy is based on it's industrial exports, which contribute more to GDP and substantially more to exports than the agricultural sector, even though that sector employs more people.

But so far, no-one has really shown any comparison between the Thai economy and other comparable econoomies. The comparison has always been with the US and the UK, which are both deliberately trying to devalue their currency - with some success, it appears.

SC

CMK is right. I believe that agriculture contributes around 10% to GDP even though it accounts for 40% or more of employment. Thailand's economic stability has very little to do with food production, despite what people who like to champion the cause of poor farmers may like to believe.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

But so far, no-one has really shown any comparison between the Thai economy and other comparable econoomies. The comparison has always been with the US and the UK, which are both deliberately trying to devalue their currency - with some success, it appears.

SC

SC, in this and many other threads I've been comparing Thailand to other economies until I'm blue in the face.

I've thrown out so many charts and links...

OK, Let's stay in Asia if we must. I really don't prefer that because I'm bearish on Asia but that's my call for myself. I see a recession building in China which will put Asia on its butt if I'm right.

OK, Thailand is nowhere near the breadbasket of Asia. China and India are. I don't even want to look up numbers I already posted about the amount of rice grown in China and India compared to Thailand but the differences are huge.

Next, I keep pointing out that Thailand isn't innovative. They don't own the patents or the wealth behind the patents, or the knowledge to do more than parrot the West. China and Japan and Taiwan and S. Korea have it all over Thailand for being self-propelled. They are coming into Thailand and using Thailand. They are making the real money. Good Lord, has anyone looked up Samsung Industries in S. Korea to see the self-propulsion? What does Thailand OWN to compare to that by any stretch?

Next I point out personal wealth and income per capita but no one blinks.

But my bottom line comes back to this. If the West has another serious recession or depression (and I'm not predicting that one way or the other) they will take Asia down with them. There is NO way that Asia loses those customers and stays the course.

Saying that Asia is now selling to itself and its own people is only true to the extent that those people make money off the West. Saying they could do it on their own is like the old joke about a group of guys all standing in a circle with their hands in each others' pockets believing they can all get rich that way.

The real money is in the West. The innovation flows from the West. The West owns the patents and the minimum wage Thais make the products. The IPhone may be made in China, but the big profits are going to the West. The big money in the internet is being made in the West. Just look at Google and I could go on and on. Ebay and Amazon are worldwide. China blocks Ebay and Google and tries to have their own and it sucks.

[NeverSure]

"With the global demand for food expected to increase far into the future, you can pretty much guarantee that profits from its production will increase too."

Not with the corruption in the farming industry in Thailand. Profits go to cartels which rape the farmers for prices on fertilizer and pesticides and herbicides and seeds and seedlings and even weaner hogs. Then they turn around and rape the farmer by telling how much they will pay for the farm products.

Go into the farming forum right here on this site and ask the guys how close that is to the truth.

Thailand is a classic corrupt third world country, where the few crooks rape the many, and the wealth is concentrated among the powerful. It's true at the bottom, say with the BiB, and it's true at the top.

Edited March 5, 2013 by NeverSure

[StreetCowboy]

...

CMK tells us that the Thai economy is based on it's industrial exports, which contribute more to GDP and substantially more to exports than the agricultural sector, even though that sector employs more people.

"As far as Thailand not making any money; Western currencies have been going down relative to the baht for the last 7 or 8 years."

Making money, and the values of currencies are unrelated, so you lost me right there. Right now, worldwide, the simplest thing that could be said about the relative value of currencies is that Western nations are printing and spending too much of it.

That doesn't mean that nations and companies and individuals in those same Western nations aren't making a helluva lot more money than Thailand or its people are.

"This thread has nothing to do with innovation or copying anything. It has to do with the Thai Baht and the future of Farangs in Thailand."

And how can the sustainability of the Thai economy not weigh on the Baht or even prices in Thailand? I have posted proof that Thai banks are lending money like it was water. I have posted to show that Thais are living on credit. I have posted to show that in developed countries, individuals hold 80% of the wealth, while in 3rd world countries, banks own 80% of the wealth. I have posted my concerns about the massive inflows of money into a real estate bubble, and a credit bubble.

Thailand has a small land base, a small population, no innovation, and a low wealth number and low income number per capita. By low I mean fractions of what people in the West have. I'll post another graph and if that doesn't help, nothing will.

The sustainability of Thailand's economy does weigh on the baht. That's why it's not 35 to 1 GBP.

Thailand is more or less the bread-basket of Asia and that is what its economic stability will be based upon; food, not flogging iPods and other consumer tat.

But so far, no-one has really shown any comparison between the Thai economy and other comparable econoomies. The comparison has always been with the US and the UK, which are both deliberately trying to devalue their currency - with some success, it appears.

SC

CMK is right. I believe that agriculture contributes around 10% to GDP even though it accounts for 40% or more of employment. Thailand's economic stability has very little to do with food production, despite what people who like to champion the cause of poor farmers may like to believe.

What the agricultural economy does do is make the country less dependent on foreign trade; when the West has a recession, the agricultural sector can absorb labour, and people won't starve.

Of more interest is the relative performance of Thailand with its peers, and early in this thread, I think, I highlighted a significant upward tick in the Thai - Malaysian exchange rate; I've not been back to check the progress on that.

SC

[inthepink]

-snip-

But so far, no-one has really shown any comparison between the Thai economy and other comparable econoomies. The comparison has always been with the US and the UK, which are both deliberately trying to devalue their currency - with some success, it appears.

SC

SC, in this and many other threads I've been comparing Thailand to other economies until I'm blue in the face.

I've thrown out so many charts and links...

OK, Let's stay in Asia if we must. I really don't prefer that because I'm bearish on Asia but that's my call for myself. I see a recession building in China which will put Asia on its butt if I'm right.

OK, Thailand is nowhere near the breadbasket of Asia. China and India are. I don't even want to look up numbers I already posted about the amount of rice grown in China and India compared to Thailand but the differences are huge.

Next, I keep pointing out that Thailand isn't innovative. They don't own the patents or the wealth behind the patents, or the knowledge to do more than parrot the West. China and Japan and Taiwan and S. Korea have it all over Thailand for being self-propelled. They are coming into Thailand and using Thailand. They are making the real money. Good Lord, has anyone looked up Samsung Industries in S. Korea to see the self-propulsion? What does Thailand OWN to compare to that by any stretch?

Next I point out personal wealth and income per capita but no one blinks.

But my bottom line comes back to this. If the West has another serious recession or depression (and I'm not predicting that one way or the other) they will take Asia down with them. There is NO way that Asia loses those customers and stays the course.

Saying that Asia is now selling to itself and its own people is only true to the extent that those people make money off the West. Saying they could do it on their own is like the old joke about a group of guys all standing in a circle with their hands in each others' pockets believing they can all get rich that way.

The real money is in the West. The innovation flows from the West. The West owns the patents and the minimum wage Thais make the products. The IPhone may be made in China, but the big profits are going to the West. The big money in the internet is being made in the West. Just look at Google and I could go on and on. Ebay and Amazon are worldwide. China blocks Ebay and Google and tries to have their own and it sucks.

If the real money is in the West, how come the US is running such an enormous deficit, much of which is financed by Chinese purchases of US government debt?

Edited March 5, 2013 by inthepink

[NeverSure]

If the real money is in the West, how comes the US is running such an enormous deficit, much of which is financed by Chinese purchases of US government debt instruments?

Geez. In free economies, Google can make a fortune for its employees and stockholders while the government sucks a big one. There is no relationship between the wealth of a Bill Gates and the debt of the US. Gates can rise while the governments gasps for air. He runs his business independent of the overspending of the US government.

The US government took in more money in tax revenue last year (2012) than it ever has before. It's a record.

The US doesn't have an income problem. It has a spending problem.

China's economy is tiny compared to the US. The tiny amount of money that's owed to China could be paid back with ease.

Just consider this. What if the US federal government decided to sell its land? Do you know that it owns 80% of Nevada and more than 50% of all of the land W. of the Rockies and most of the Rockies? Do you know that this land is covered by timber and wet with oil? Do you know that it owns most of the land we call the US, and the oceans out to the lines drawn by treaties?

Do you know that the US has more gas and oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined? For some reason they won't go after it but it's there.

Now let's talk about Canada. No, let's just say it's in a very similar position with natural resources.

We have not seen the last days of the West.

[inthepink]

You make some good points but very few people consider more than a trillion dollars to be a tiny amount. It's around 8% of current GDP.

Edited March 5, 2013 by inthepink

[NeverSure]

CMK is right. I believe that agriculture contributes around 10% to GDP even though it accounts for 40% or more of employment. Thailand's economic stability has very little to do with food production, despite what people who like to champion the cause of poor farmers may like to believe.

Aha. Now, Thailand likes to boast that its unemployment rate is less than 1%. Wow. But if 40% of the people work in farming which for the farmer isn't very profitable, and for the laborer is worse, and worse yet often seasonal, then what kinds of "employment" are we talking about? If another 10% work under the table for minimum wage or less, or work part time, then we have about 50% of the population in 3rd world poverty.

Would we ever get the truth out of the Thai government? Do they even know?

[poanoi]

China's economy is tiny compared to the US. The tiny amount of money that's owed to China could be paid back with ease.

Ahem, your tax revenue will soon only cover interest, there is no money for social security, defense, or any other expense.

http://understandingfiscalresponsibility.org/georgenantwi/i-owe-you-usa-i-o-u-s-a

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

[inthepink]

CMK is right. I believe that agriculture contributes around 10% to GDP even though it accounts for 40% or more of employment. Thailand's economic stability has very little to do with food production, despite what people who like to champion the cause of poor farmers may like to believe.

Aha. Now, Thailand likes to boast that its unemployment rate is less than 1%. Wow. But if 40% of the people work in farming which for the farmer isn't very profitable, and for the laborer is worse, and worse yet often seasonal, then what kinds of "employment" are we talking about? If another 10% work under the table for minimum wage or less, or work part time, then we have about 50% of the population in 3rd world poverty.

Would we ever get the truth out of the Thai government? Do they even know?

I agree that Thailand's unemployment figures should be taken with a pinch of salt but I believe the GDP figures are fairly well documented. As for 50% of the working population being low earners, that's par for the course in most parts of the world.

Edited March 5, 2013 by inthepink

[NeverSure]

You make some good points but very few people consider more than a trillion dollars to be a tiny amount. It's around 8% of current GDP.

When you look at your financial statement, you don't look only at your annual production. You don't even look only at your bank accounts. You look at your entire net worth. That would include land and buildings, oil wells which are untapped, massive stands of timber which are untapped, and so on.

Compared to what the US government owns including more oil reserves than ALL of the rest of the world combined, and trillion dollars is tiny.

Do you know who the largest importer of oil to the US is? Would we think it is the Middle East? We'd be wrong. It's Canada, right next door with resources similar to the US except Canada doesn't have Alaska.

Do you know where the US now gets most of its timber? Canada.

The environmentalists have shut down oil and gas and coal and timber production in the US, causing the US to buy from Canada, Brazil, and yes the Middle East. Think of the tax revenue and the really good jobs that would flow if the US would get off it and pump all of its own oil and produce all of its own timber and even, heaven forbid, export some!!

The US buys about +/- 3/4 of a trillion dollars in gas, oil, and timber each year. That's a lot of lost money and a lot of lost good jobs.

The US government owns that oil and coal and timber and it could sell it. Yes, a trillion dollars isn't all that much money.

[NeverSure]

China's economy is tiny compared to the US. The tiny amount of money that's owed to China could be paid back with ease.

Ahem, your tax revenue will soon only cover interest, there is no money for social security, defense, or any other expense.

http://understandingfiscalresponsibility.org/georgenantwi/i-owe-you-usa-i-o-u-s-a

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

I didn't mean to make this about the US. I meant to make it about Western currencies and economies vs Thailand. Somehow I got caught up in trying to show how tiny in corrupt and backward Thailand really is compared to the West. The thread is about Western currencies vs the Baht.

Just look at my post above about the wealth in resources of the US. We have to tap those resources. Right now they are locked up by people who I swear must want to break the US. I have no idea how people can be so blind.

I appreciate all of your videos and graphs, but they make the error of only looking at tax revenue. They don't look at the actual wealth the nation owns and could tap. They see a fixed income as the only possible source of revenue.

Canada is being smarter. They are tapping enough of their own oil and coal and timber to meet their needs and to sell some. This is making a huge difference in their overall economy and in their national budget.