So, You Think You Can Run Thailand Any Better?....

[chiangmaikelly]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

[chiangmaikelly]

I'd add that so many of my intelligent, educated and informed Thai friends as well as many Thai scholars agree with me that in fact because of it's advantages gained by the lack of the civil wars and the western alliances, influences and aid as well as other strengths and resources (including human) Thailand should in fact have gone much further...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I would also agree with that and add the lack of Western countries raping the natural resources helped a lot as did the lack of hundreds of thousands of people starved by famine and killed by war.

You've perhaps missed the point of the post you agreed with. But it's a wise move to ignore the previous response to you...

How much did it help that Thais raped the natural resources of their country and some of their neighbors? Sorry...couldn't resist. No need to reply to that tangent...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I believe the thread was about Western people running Thailand better.

[SteeleJoe]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

I'd add that so many of my intelligent, educated and informed Thai friends as well as many Thai scholars agree with me that in fact because of it's advantages gained by the lack of the civil wars and the western alliances, influences and aid as well as other strengths and resources (including human) Thailand should in fact have gone much further...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I would also agree with that and add the lack of Western countries raping the natural resources helped a lot as did the lack of hundreds of thousands of people starved by famine and killed by war.

You've perhaps missed the point of the post you agreed with. But it's a wise move to ignore the previous response to you...

How much did it help that Thais raped the natural resources of their country and some of their neighbors? Sorry...couldn't resist. No need to reply to that tangent...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I believe the thread was about Western people running Thailand better.

Yes, and I replied to you post on that thread (wherein you cite the difference between Thai actions and foreign).

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Edited February 27, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[chiangmaikelly]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

No you missed it. I lived in Thailand in the 1960's and I lived in Vietnam in the 1960's. I never saw a shot fired in anger in either country. Now do you got it? Instead of dealing with the issue I raised that is, that Western powers did not do a good job in the countries around Thailand you chose to attack my credibility to say such a thing.

Edited February 27, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[SteeleJoe]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

No you missed it. I lived in Thailand in the 1960's and I lived in Vietnam in the 1960's. I never saw a shot fired in anger in either country. Now do you got it?

Yes, I get it. you lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. And you lived in Thailand in the 60's.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

No you missed it. I lived in Thailand in the 1960's and I lived in Vietnam in the 1960's. I never saw a shot fired in anger in either country. Now do you got it?

Yes, I get it. you lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. And you lived in Thailand in the 60's.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

So aside from attacking me how about dealing with what I wrote for a change. When Farang had a chance to run other countries around Thailand they did not do as good a job as Thailand running itself.

[SteeleJoe]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

No you missed it. I lived in Thailand in the 1960's and I lived in Vietnam in the 1960's. I never saw a shot fired in anger in either country. Now do you got it?

Yes, I get it. you lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. And you lived in Thailand in the 60's.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

So aside from attacking me how about dealing with what I wrote for a change. When Farang had a chance to run other countries around Thailand they did not do as good a job as Thailand running itself.

* I haven't attacked you.

* I responded to that quite some time ago. As you know.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

No you missed it. I lived in Thailand in the 1960's and I lived in Vietnam in the 1960's. I never saw a shot fired in anger in either country. Now do you got it?

Yes, I get it. you lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. And you lived in Thailand in the 60's.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

So aside from attacking me how about dealing with what I wrote for a change. When Farang had a chance to run other countries around Thailand they did not do as good a job as Thailand running itself.

* I haven't attacked you.

* I responded to that quite some time ago. As you know.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

You wrote, "Either you are either joking, not thinking things through, or seriously lacking in historical knowledge.

By the way, may I ask when you lived in Vietnam?" I think that is an attack and nothing to do with my point.

You have written nothing to refute my claim that Thailand is far ahead of the four other countries in the area which were the beneficiary of Western management. So my point was and is that Thailand is better off without Western influence.

[SteeleJoe]

I am really trying not

'Incidentally, still wondering when you lived in Vietnam...'

He cant talk about that.

Sure I can the stories are all on line. Look them up if you want to. Try Operation Moose.

So you were comparing South Vietnam at war (40 years ago?) with living in Thailand (now?) when you said you liked Thailand better?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I lived in both countries. I know a lot of people from both countries. The climate, the food, the personality of bureaucrats, the women, their families, culture a lot of things don't change. I lived in both Thailand and Vietnam in the 1960's. So no I am not comparing Vietnam then to Thailand now. I am first comparing them both in the 1960's. Now I know a lot of people who live in Vietnam and who live in Thailand including myself and do business in both countries.

OK, thanks. You lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. Got it.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

No you missed it. I lived in Thailand in the 1960's and I lived in Vietnam in the 1960's. I never saw a shot fired in anger in either country. Now do you got it?

Yes, I get it. you lived in South Vietnam at war in the 60's so that experience is 40+ years old and a dramatically different context. And you lived in Thailand in the 60's.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

So aside from attacking me how about dealing with what I wrote for a change. When Farang had a chance to run other countries around Thailand they did not do as good a job as Thailand running itself.

* I haven't attacked you.

* I responded to that quite some time ago. As you know.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

You wrote, "Either you are either joking, not thinking things through, or seriously lacking in historical knowledge.

By the way, may I ask when you lived in Vietnam?" I think that is an attack and nothing to do with my point.

You have written nothing to refute my claim that Thailand is far ahead of the four other countries in the area which were the beneficiary of Western management. So my point was and is that Thailand is better off without Western influence.

Oh, I see. I didn't think that was an attack. I apologize.

But you've done it again: it is preposterous to claim Thailand is or has been (since before it was called Thailand) without western influence.

And I did refute it. I'll post it again, if you insist.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

You said, "Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia all had the overwhelming advantage of Western ideas and management as they were all colonized by Western powers. Only Thailand stood alone forced to eek out intellectual sustenance by herself. Now looking at the area that surrounds Thailand, that is Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia who has done the best?"

You call it an overwhelming advantage but then you say they failed miserably. You proceed to ignore that those countries wound up fighting hugely destructive civil wars to eradicate virtually every vestige of that power structure and then replaced them with brutally oppressive and unworkable totalitarian systems that further destroyed any gains made and left them after decades of tyranny arguably worse off than ever and from which they a only now recovering.

Thailand, meanwhile, avoids that fate (AND colonialism) largely due to the fact that for centuries they embraced and adopted western influences and alliances (and western experts).

Now you claim that Thailand has excelled BECAUSE it didn't have a colonial administration - which you previously cited as an overwhelming advantage - which is ridiculous in a number of ways.

And again you ignore Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[Lancelot]

Like the Thais would accept a farang leader. Get real please

But who ever the leader would be, remember that there are many vested interests all protecting their individual rice bowls.

A permanent shift in values might occur- in about three generations

[StreetCowboy]

You said, "Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia all had the overwhelming advantage of Western ideas and management as they were all colonized by Western powers. Only Thailand stood alone forced to eek out intellectual sustenance by herself. Now looking at the area that surrounds Thailand, that is Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia who has done the best?"

You call it an overwhelming advantage but then you say they failed miserably. You proceed to ignore that those countries wound up fighting hugely destructive civil wars to eradicate virtually every vestige of that power structure and then replaced them with brutally oppressive and unworkable totalitarian systems that further destroyed any gains made and left them after decades of tyranny arguably worse off than ever and from which they a only now recovering.

Thailand, meanwhile, avoids that fate (AND colonialism) largely due to the fact that for centuries they embraced and adopted western influences and alliances (and western experts).

Now you claim that Thailand has excelled BECAUSE it didn't have a colonial administration - which you previously cited as an overwhelming advantage - which is ridiculous in a number of ways.

And again you ignore Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I suppose you could look at the other countries on the Malayan peninsula for comparison.

[chiangmaikelly]

You said, "Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia all had the overwhelming advantage of Western ideas and management as they were all colonized by Western powers. Only Thailand stood alone forced to eek out intellectual sustenance by herself. Now looking at the area that surrounds Thailand, that is Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia who has done the best?"

You call it an overwhelming advantage but then you say they failed miserably. You proceed to ignore that those countries wound up fighting hugely destructive civil wars to eradicate virtually every vestige of that power structure and then replaced them with brutally oppressive and unworkable totalitarian systems that further destroyed any gains made and left them after decades of tyranny arguably worse off than ever and from which they a only now recovering.

Thailand, meanwhile, avoids that fate (AND colonialism) largely due to the fact that for centuries they embraced and adopted western influences and alliances (and western experts).

Now you claim that Thailand has excelled BECAUSE it didn't have a colonial administration - which you previously cited as an overwhelming advantage - which is ridiculous in a number of ways.

And again you ignore Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I didn't ignore the civil wars. The wars were a result of Western Management and ideas. Thailand did not have the wars because Thailand did not have Western Management and ideas nor did they have to fight civil wars to get rid of Western influence. Colonialism was never an advantage. That is why Thailand had the advantage because they never had colonialism.

[SteeleJoe]

You said, "Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia all had the overwhelming advantage of Western ideas and management as they were all colonized by Western powers. Only Thailand stood alone forced to eek out intellectual sustenance by herself. Now looking at the area that surrounds Thailand, that is Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia who has done the best?"

You call it an overwhelming advantage but then you say they failed miserably. You proceed to ignore that those countries wound up fighting hugely destructive civil wars to eradicate virtually every vestige of that power structure and then replaced them with brutally oppressive and unworkable totalitarian systems that further destroyed any gains made and left them after decades of tyranny arguably worse off than ever and from which they a only now recovering.

Thailand, meanwhile, avoids that fate (AND colonialism) largely due to the fact that for centuries they embraced and adopted western influences and alliances (and western experts).

Now you claim that Thailand has excelled BECAUSE it didn't have a colonial administration - which you previously cited as an overwhelming advantage - which is ridiculous in a number of ways.

And again you ignore Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I didn't ignore the civil wars. The wars were a result of Western Management and ideas. Thailand did not have the wars because Thailand did not have Western Management and ideas nor did they have to fight civil wars to get rid of Western influence. Colonialism was never an advantage. That is why Thailand had the advantage because they never had colonialism.

OK, so I was right to begin with: you are either not thinking things through or are lacking in historical knowledge. Or both.

By the way, YOU were the one who called an overwhelming advantage.

You will never admit that you are quite wrong and will never stop twisting to avoid it. But in the process you say some really silly things and you have done it again (Thailand did not have did not have Western Management and ideas?)

This is pointless.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

You said, "Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia all had the overwhelming advantage of Western ideas and management as they were all colonized by Western powers. Only Thailand stood alone forced to eek out intellectual sustenance by herself. Now looking at the area that surrounds Thailand, that is Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia who has done the best?"

You call it an overwhelming advantage but then you say they failed miserably. You proceed to ignore that those countries wound up fighting hugely destructive civil wars to eradicate virtually every vestige of that power structure and then replaced them with brutally oppressive and unworkable totalitarian systems that further destroyed any gains made and left them after decades of tyranny arguably worse off than ever and from which they a only now recovering.

Thailand, meanwhile, avoids that fate (AND colonialism) largely due to the fact that for centuries they embraced and adopted western influences and alliances (and western experts).

Now you claim that Thailand has excelled BECAUSE it didn't have a colonial administration - which you previously cited as an overwhelming advantage - which is ridiculous in a number of ways.

And again you ignore Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I suppose you could look at the other countries on the Malayan peninsula for comparison.

Indeed you could.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chiangmaikelly]

You said, "Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia all had the overwhelming advantage of Western ideas and management as they were all colonized by Western powers. Only Thailand stood alone forced to eek out intellectual sustenance by herself. Now looking at the area that surrounds Thailand, that is Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia who has done the best?"

You call it an overwhelming advantage but then you say they failed miserably. You proceed to ignore that those countries wound up fighting hugely destructive civil wars to eradicate virtually every vestige of that power structure and then replaced them with brutally oppressive and unworkable totalitarian systems that further destroyed any gains made and left them after decades of tyranny arguably worse off than ever and from which they a only now recovering.

Thailand, meanwhile, avoids that fate (AND colonialism) largely due to the fact that for centuries they embraced and adopted western influences and alliances (and western experts).

Now you claim that Thailand has excelled BECAUSE it didn't have a colonial administration - which you previously cited as an overwhelming advantage - which is ridiculous in a number of ways.

And again you ignore Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

I didn't ignore the civil wars. The wars were a result of Western Management and ideas. Thailand did not have the wars because Thailand did not have Western Management and ideas nor did they have to fight civil wars to get rid of Western influence. Colonialism was never an advantage. That is why Thailand had the advantage because they never had colonialism.

OK, so I was right to begin with: you are either not thinking things through or are lacking in historical knowledge. Or both.

By the way, YOU were the one who called an overwhelming advantage.

You will never admit that you are quite wrong and will never stop twisting to avoid it. But in the process you say some really silly things and you have done it again (Thailand did not have did not have Western Management and ideas?)

This is pointless.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Just to attack the poster and not what I wrote I agree is pointless. I'm not twisting anything. Fact 1. Burma, Laos and Cambodia are in the dark ages and Vietnam is close. 2. Apparently you missed my sarcasm; colonialism was an overwhelming disadvantage to the surrounding countries and allowed Thailand to come out far ahead of it's neighbors. 3. For an example of the top notch Western thinking that sunk colonialism check out this thread for such gems as, "deport all Thais."