Thaivisa Poll: Should Thaksin Stay?

[Mobi]

How about an Up-country anecdotal poll?

Many of TV members are either living in villages or travel there frequently with their gfs/ wives.

I just returned from my wife's village in Sa Kaeo. At the previous 2 elections TRT received huge support from everyone in her village - including her. She now tells me that most of the people in the village are now against Thaksin and want him to go. I mentioned the fact that they never read the newspapers and only have the TV to go on, so how come they've changed their minds? She said they all know about the Shin/ Tax scandal and are outraged. She said there has been mention of it on TV, and anyway, everyone knows all about it. Of course Sa Kaeo is Sanoh territory, so this may have a bearing on their opinions.

So what about other villages? Any shift in opinion, or are they still mainly TRT/Thaksin supporters? What's the word on the street?

Wife says she is determined to go back on 2 April and register her 'No vote'. I told her I doubt nthe election will go ahead.

[ilyushin]

ABAC's polls are always questionable!

[Butterfly]

In the North near Laos, they are still pro-Taxin

Chang Mai population is said to be very Anti-Taxin according to what I hear from natives there, but it could only be noises.

[ilyushin]

These people were not interviewed I'm sure

[LindsayBKK]

Farang that are living here have just as much right to say his/her bit for Thailand. Farang contribute a huge income for Thailand and the government policy can make a difference.

Toxin has nothing but contempt for Thais by buying anything he can to make money for his "Family" not this country. His "family" have bought huge amounts of land at the new airport to sell later on and also selling Shin Corp to Singapore was not helpful. But not paying taxes was the last straw for most. As for the poll, wait and see what happens. Taksin spent 300million baht to bus in people for his rally so time will tell but by the look on Taksin face yesterday he is not getting much sleep.

Oh and it was nice of Toxin to say he will stay 15 months to help new government if he loses, for what? So he can have more time to organise his property and wealth overseas I have heard. I heard he will move to Singapore. Anybody will be better than "The Family".

[jdinasia]

"Farang contribute a huge income" ...? Well I guess the retirees that have income from overseas contribute some.

[ilyushin]

"Farang contribute a huge income" ...? Well I guess the retirees that have income from overseas contribute some.

In addition to the retirees ( # unkown ) there were 97,000 Work Permits issued in 2004 and 115,000 new ones in 2005.

That would be about the same number of people who supported ( bused in) Doc Tox for Baht 300 million.

[Maejo Man]

"Farang contribute a huge income" ...? Well I guess the retirees that have income from overseas contribute some.

Tourism makes up approximately 25% of the GDP according to government statistics! You were saying??.......

[gurkle]

Toxin has nothing but contempt for Thais by buying anything he can to make money for his "Family" not this country.

One thing I've learned from reading these Thaksin forums is that when I get rich, I will never tell a soul, Thai or farang. Jealousy can drive people to say and do evil things.

Edited March 7, 2006 by gurkle

[froglegisgood]

I am annoyed to see Lukamar express occasionnally extreme opinion, contrasting with some of other farangs comments and sign them with

===========================

The AOFT Website Team

Association of Foreigners in Thailand

===========================

It is my understanding that he expresses his opinion and not the opinion of foreigners, members or not of AOFT. I guess it would make more sense for him to dissociate from an association when he expresses opinion that has not been approved by the members, unless he is the only member...

fd

[Ricardo]

How about an Up-country anecdotal poll?

So what about other villages? Any shift in opinion, or are they still mainly TRT/Thaksin supporters? What's the word on the street?

We live in a village about 10 miles outside Chiang-Mai, which used to be solid TRT country, but our local paa-luang recently told us, unprompted & without knowing my (Thai) wife's views, that he thought the village-loan scheme was very bad, because it had encouraged several people in the village to get into debt, much worse than they had ever been before. So he no longer blindly supports Thaksin.

One thing I've learned from reading these Thaksin forums is that when I get rich, I will never tell a soul, Thai or farang. Jealousy can drive people to say and do evil things.

Good advice there, gurkle. My wealth is my own, and my wife's, business - nobody else's - although as a farang in Thailand, I find that people often assume we're rich anyway. Which we are - relatively - and worked hard to earn it.

But I can't say that I think many farangs are jealous of Thaksin's wealth, or that jealousy motivates our opinions, in fact I suspect that if anything we are LESS impressed by money, than most Thais are.

Edited March 7, 2006 by Ricardo

[Plus]

It’s the system that is rotten, Thaksin is simply playing the game by the same rules as everyone else only he is better at it. ...

If the opposition wants to make a difference they should be more patient, learn from Thaksin and try to beat him at his own game.

You must be mad to suggest anyone else to try to beat Taksin at his own game. That would not only include trivial vote buying, it would include wholesale buying of political parties, the senate, and staffing the courtrooms, the army, and the police with his own people, as well as stiffling the media, and academia too.

Do you realise that under Taksin there's not one intellectual left who he shows any respect to? All his former supporters have left him. All of them. Prawase Wasi, Suwalak Srivaksa, Chaianan Samudvija, Chamlong, even that monk Luangta Mahabua (sworn enemy of Democrats, btw), even his former economic guru, Virabongsa Ramangkura has been critical of late.

Someone called Taksin a criminal a few pages earlier, and someone replied that it's up to the voters to decide if they want criminals in office or not. That is not true. Criminals CANNOT run for office and public cannot vote them in or out. Their popularity is irrelevant.

The Constitution says that an MP cannot hold more than 5% of shares in any company and cannot be involved in any business decisions. That makes Taksin a "criminal" and unfit for the office. Period. Millions upon millions will not make him "un-criminal".

[Orion76]

Well, Plus, you are taking two sentences from a long post there and taking them out of their context by excluding the rest, but if he's a criminal who has broken Thai law maybe you can save the folks in Sanam Luang some effort and tell them that instead of holding rallies in Sanam Luang they can invest their time in legal proceedings

Edited March 7, 2006 by Orion76

[britmaveric]

Plus - PM Thaksin has yet to be convicted of anything, so what you are saying is irrelevant.

[lukamar]

I am annoyed to see Lukamar express occasionnally extreme opinion, contrasting with some of other farangs comments and sign them with

It is my understanding that he expresses his opinion and not the opinion of foreigners, members or not of AOFT. I guess it would make more sense for him to dissociate from an association when he expresses opinion that has not been approved by the members, unless he is the only member...

froglegisgood if you are indeed a member of AOFT then you can easily contact the Admin with your concerns. If you are not then what are you complaining about? While my opinion is always my own it is in line with the views expressed to me by the majority or the membership of AOFT. And as you say, my views do contrast with some of the other farang comments, the catch word there is "SOME". Although you probably think that your opinion is the only correct one, there are many other farang, a lot who will not post here because of the fear of ridicule for having a differing opinion, that do not agree with you.

Because you are so anoyed and I would hate for you to have a heart attack over it, I have put a disclaimer into my signature.

It also appears that froglegisgood you have created a posting ID to protect your identity so you can feel free to attack others without loosing any privilages if there were repercussions.

Edited March 7, 2006 by lukamar

[jdinasia]

well ... I am guessing that MOST of the people of that organization do not think tha "The USA is not a democracy"

[lukamar]

well ... I am guessing that MOST of the people of that organization do not think tha "The USA is not a democracy"

I'm also guessing that the Moderators on this board and the other posters are not aware of the harassing insulting PMs I've been getting from you either.

It's people like you on forums that stop others from posting their views in case they are singled out, badgered and harassed. You look for things to jump on instead of offering some kind of intelligent alternative. People are allowed their own views, I don't insult you because I don't agree with your politics. You knew full well what I meant in the statement and because I did not say exactly "The US is a Republican Democracy and not a Parliamentary Democracy" you took that as your cue to try and intimidate someone. I'm sorry you didn't understand the statement, you could have asked for clarification and acted in an adult way.

[Jai Dee]

It is my understanding that he expresses his opinion and not the opinion of foreigners, members or not of AOFT. I guess it would make more sense for him to dissociate from an association when he expresses opinion that has not been approved by the members, unless he is the only member...

That's why he adds this disclaimer to his signature:

"The views expressed here are personal and may not reflect the views of AOFT."

BTW, the AOFT has no affiliation with ThaiVisa.

Now... can we please keep American Politics out of this thread and stay on topic?

[LindsayBKK]

well ... I am guessing that MOST of the people of that organization do not think tha "The USA is not a democracy"

I'm also guessing that the Moderators on this board and the other posters are not aware of the harassing insulting PMs I've been getting from you either.

It's people like you on forums that stop others from posting their views in case they are singled out, badgered and harassed. You look for things to jump on instead of offering some kind of intelligent alternative. People are allowed their own views, I don't insult you because I don't agree with your politics. You knew full well what I meant in the statement and because I did not say exactly "The US is a Republican Democracy and not a Parliamentary Democracy" you took that as your cue to try and intimidate someone. I'm sorry you didn't understand the statement, you could have asked for clarification and acted in an adult way.

Put your hands up if you want to join the Association of Foreigners in Thailand....

[h90]

<snip>

/Mod Edit - off topic.

Edited March 8, 2006 by Jai Dee

[billd766]

"Farang contribute a huge income" ...? Well I guess the retirees that have income from overseas contribute some.

In addition to the retirees ( # unkown ) there were 97,000 Work Permits issued in 2004 and 115,000 new ones in 2005.

That would be about the same number of people who supported ( bused in) Doc Tox for Baht 300 million.

And what about the people who are supporting their wives and families, including those living and working overseas. They certainly contribute a large amount to the countries coffers in the form of houses, condos, food etc.

They probably contribute more than the people with work permits.

[gurkle]

But I think there are no doubts that the USA is not a democracy, a small amount of rich people share the country.

Either democrates or republicans.....

When did you have the last president comming from the slums without money or at least a president not supported from democrates or republicans?

No need to hate or overthrow leaders just because they make more money than you.

If you believe in class warfare, you can always move to a socialist or communist country where you won't have to feel as jealous.

Edited March 8, 2006 by gurkle

[asd]

I'm also guessing that the Moderators on this board and the other posters are not aware of the harassing insulting PMs I've been getting from you either.

It's people like you on forums that stop others from posting their views in case they are singled out, badgered and harassed. You look for things to jump on instead of offering some kind of intelligent alternative. People are allowed their own views, I don't insult you because I don't agree with your politics. You knew full well what I meant in the statement and because I did not say exactly "The US is a Republican Democracy and not a Parliamentary Democracy" you took that as your cue to try and intimidate someone. I'm sorry you didn't understand the statement, you could have asked for clarification and acted in an adult way.

Jai yen yen na krup khun lukamar

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[jdinasia]

"Farang contribute a huge income" ...? Well I guess the retirees that have income from overseas contribute some.

In addition to the retirees ( # unkown ) there were 97,000 Work Permits issued in 2004 and 115,000 new ones in 2005.

That would be about the same number of people who supported ( bused in) Doc Tox for Baht 300 million.

And what about the people who are supporting their wives and families, including those living and working overseas. They certainly contribute a large amount to the countries coffers in the form of houses, condos, food etc.

They probably contribute more than the people with work permits.

Hmmm I would guess the retirees do contribute ... not sure about people with work permits ... if the income is from Thailand it's not really a contribution huh?

and as for work permits ... who knows how many of those are for farang?

But overall it is a moot point. I think we all have opinions about Thaksin and politics here. After having seen comments from some people that not only defy logic but never even rise to the challenge of doing any research into what they spout off as fact; it is nice to see some people that actually think about what they post!

[jdinasia]

oi oi oi

lukamar -

""You knew full well what I meant in the statement and because I did not say exactly "The US is a Republican Democracy and not a Parliamentary Democracy" you took that as your cue to try and intimidate someone. I'm sorry you didn't understand the statement, you could have asked for clarification and acted in an adult way.""

Let's break that down .... "You knew full well what I meant..." followed by "I'm sorry you didn't understand the statement..." What I know is that you said the US isn't a democracy but a Republic ... silly statement!

Very simply ... this is Thailand Luk ...what happened here in the last election could not happen anywhere else. The democratic process was completely thwarted .. when Parlaiment cannot even censure/impeach the PM there's not a Democracy and there are no checks and balances. Instead there's a parlaimentary dictatorship. When the PM dissolves Parlaiment NOT because the Gov't and Parlaiment are not working together<the valid reason for calling for a new election> but because not doing so will see him removed from office the problems become more and more apparent.

To spout off democratic ideals based on countries that have checks and balances against this type of siezure of personal power as if they should apply to Thailand just doesn't make sense.

[dan10400]

"Farang contribute a huge income" ...? Well I guess the retirees that have income from overseas contribute some.

In addition to the retirees ( # unkown ) there were 97,000 Work Permits issued in 2004 and 115,000 new ones in 2005.

That would be about the same number of people who supported ( bused in) Doc Tox for Baht 300 million.

And what about the people who are supporting their wives and families, including those living and working overseas. They certainly contribute a large amount to the countries coffers in the form of houses, condos, food etc.

They probably contribute more than the people with work permits.

Hmmm I would guess the retirees do contribute ... not sure about people with work permits ... if the income is from Thailand it's not really a contribution huh?

and as for work permits ... who knows how many of those are for farang?

But overall it is a moot point. I think we all have opinions about Thaksin and politics here. After having seen comments from some people that not only defy logic but never even rise to the challenge of doing any research into what they spout off as fact; it is nice to see some people that actually think about what they post!

ok - i think we can all go with the assumption that foreign direct investment

is good for Thailand. resources, knowledge, people get employeed, etc.

now, assuming that as an investor, you were limited to employing only locals

to look after your investment, do you really believe that any of this foreign

investment would occur? do you believe that any knowledge transfer would

occur?

granted, not all work permits meet this criteria fully. but almost all meet

to a certain extent and most likely a net benefit to the economy of thailand.

to consider only 'wages' and assume that wages paid to a farang on a

work permit is the extent of the economic impact is, well, short-sighted.

[jdinasia]

How many of those work permits are for real foriegn direct investment? and how many for teachers? How many are for farang etc?

You won't find me argueing that this is bad .... just was argueing the "farang make a huge..." comment. (my personal impact is pretty small

[Gary A]

The farangs here in Thailand have no business even trying to get involved in Thai politics. Thaksin was lawfully elected by the Thai people and should remain in office until there is someone who can take him out by beating him.

I think that soon there will be a backlash against the academics and others who want him out. They will be told to quit crying and to start planning to field a candidate who can beat him.

[boppia]

The main issue behind the protests comes to the PM using censorship to stop the publics from criticizing his and his party's actions. If you don't know this by now you should open your eyes. Some posters who live up country really are in the dark about what Thais are saying because there is no publication in Thai or English of what's going on in the protests. Some inofrmation is getting through but its coming through strange channels and to only people who have access to those channels. The mainstream media never questions why the protests are happening. They just selectively show clips of people at the protests and what they say.

If you have ASTV (which most people don't) you'll know that many of ASTVs staff comes from ITVs old and more popular staff. ITV is(was?) owned by Thaksin. Anyways most of ASTVs reporters were fired for critizing the government, the very thing that made ITV popular before Thaksin got to power. Once he got in he shut down the press which is why so many posters blindly support him(literally).

Many of you don't know what is going on because you are out of the loop or not aware of Thai history and the figures who have and do influence it.

I am happy to say that soon Thaksin is going. Everyday there are more and more people who are against him speaking up. (It's hard for Thais to speak up) If you remember the influential monk who pool gold reall gold to help pay off Thailand's debt to the IMF, well, you are informed that he too is against Thaksin. He came across ASTV with a message that he is against Thaksin. He said Thaksin has finished eating out the insides of Thailand. He got average Thais to donate money towards resolving Thailand's debt miliions and millions of dollars of working Thais money for doing good. What happens in the end? It seems that the money was given to Thaksin himself in the form of a wonderful tax-free sale. Well, anyways the army against Thaksin, family, and cronies is growing. Something is going to happen soon. Not everyone can see the truth. Join the resistance while you still can. There will be no compromise. Thaksin is out. Freedom and democracy struggle on.

[Jai Dee]

Have any of you read the editorial opinion from this morning's Nation?