Thais Score Lowest In T O E F L

[caulfield2]

I would have thought Thai students were WORSE than this. The stupid systems the Government has for people who ACTAULLY speak english is terrible. You have to LEAVE thailand to get a visa for a few months to come back and TEACH THais english. Then the money you earn you use agaoin to leave the country to get another Vidsa to come back. this is the case for most people I speak to or they teach ILLEGALLY on retirement visas. getting a proper work visa is hard because the incentive to be paid a low wage is not really there.

The government if it wants PROPER ENGLISH TEACHERS needs to change its visa policy otherwise thais will be going back to living under banana palms and climbing cocoumt trees... or chasing faranbngs dfor income as they are proficient at.

I have travelled EXTENSIVELY and Thailand with SO MANY TOURISTS lags behind the world in Elglish

If you think the level of Elglish (sic) in Thailand is the worst in the world try going to places like Venezuela in South America

Well, part of that is the anti-America, anti-gringo, anti-English values inculcated by Mr. Chavez, one would think.

Having lived next door in Colombia, there is a desire in countries like Peru, Ecuador, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, etc., to learn English as much as possible (under whatever the given circumstances).

Plus, very few north americans are retiring there in Venezuela (only MLB baseball players, and then you're still randomly exposed to robberies, kidnappings and ransoms).....but, just like with Costa Rica and Panama, more and more Americans will be looking for lower cost retirement options and some of those countries I mentioned in the second paragraph will pick up even more in their English assimilation levels over time.

Edited March 4, 2013 by caulfield2

[culicine]

First things first, remove the "no fail" policy that pervades academia here.

Just give them the grade they got:) Problem is, if the kid gets a zero its the teacher's fault, nevermind the kid either has a learning disability, never turned up to school, never handed in any work, etc. Certainly, school admin will take no responsibility; it's always the teachers fault. That's why most teachers end up dumbing down the work, just to get most kids to pass the first time round.

[Fookhaht]

First things first, remove the "no fail" policy that pervades academia here.

Just give them the grade they got:) Problem is, if the kid gets a zero its the teacher's fault, nevermind the kid either has a learning disability, never turned up to school, never handed in any work, etc. Certainly, school admin will take no responsibility; it's always the teachers fault. That's why most teachers end up dumbing down the work, just to get most kids to pass the first time round.

[Tatsujin]

First things first, remove the "no fail" policy that pervades academia here.

Just give them the grade they got:) Problem is, if the kid gets a zero its the teacher's fault, nevermind the kid either has a learning disability, never turned up to school, never handed in any work, etc. Certainly, school admin will take no responsibility; it's always the teachers fault. That's why most teachers end up dumbing down the work, just to get most kids to pass the first time round.

I graded accurately, gave the results to the schools, they did what they wanted with them. I refused to change grades myself, but if they wanted to do it, that's up to them and there's not a lot I can do about it.

[Fookhaht]

First things first, remove the "no fail" policy that pervades academia here.

Just give them the grade they got:) Problem is, if the kid gets a zero its the teacher's fault, nevermind the kid either has a learning disability, never turned up to school, never handed in any work, etc. Certainly, school admin will take no responsibility; it's always the teachers fault. That's why most teachers end up dumbing down the work, just to get most kids to pass the first time round.

I graded accurately, gave the results to the schools, they did what they wanted with them. I refused to change grades myself, but if they wanted to do it, that's up to them and there's not a lot I can do about it.

That's how most foreign teachers of good conscience will act.

I likewise have problems when the school comes back at me to change MY scores or letter grades based on merely a student's or parent's unjustified complaint (or their "gift" to the school). In such a case I stubbornly refused, gave them my unrevised scores and told them exactly what you said. With this modus operandi, I am embarking on my second decade of teaching here with no serious problems of conscience nor repercussions from the powers-that-be. Down deep, they know what's right whether they follow it or not.

[Yo Sup]

When those teaching english can barely speak the language then it doesn't look bright. Those with kids being taught english by thais at school will know what I mean.

Those with kids being taught by Philipinos will know too!

[Yo Sup]

Sorry but I just don't believe the numbers quoted:

- Thai students - 450 - believable.

- Singapore students - 550 - not believable because teachers actually teach 99%

of all classes in English in singapore, students totally immersed in English from

day 1 at Kindergarten. The averageTOEFL score for Singapore students must be

a lot higher than 550 / the gap cannot be just 100, impossible.

The article was written by the Nation.....

[teacher17]

Also, the parent's do not always encourage the students like they should. I've also been told from teachers that some of the reasons why students go to school at all around here is because they want to get out of helping their parents on the farm or family business. Of course...I live in a rural area, so not sure how it would be in, for example, Bangkok.

You raise an excellent point here that should have been raised long ago. Particularly in the "better" schools, especially private schools, parents seem to feel that once they fork over the money for tuition they can wash their hands of the matter and their children's education is completely in the hands of the school. There is very little concept of how truly getting a good education requires the parents to support the school and teachers and engage their children to learn at home.

One rare exception to this pretty much universal phenomenon was teaching math at a private school to grades 2 and 3. One student's father was an engineer and his father would sit with him every night working on math with him. He was already 4 grades ahead of his classmates and because of it caused a major classroom management headache for me. He would race through an activity that took the rest of the students half a class to complete in 5-minutes, get bored and become disruptive. I quickly realized I needed to work a bit harder to keep this kid busy so, I started photocopying worksheets from one of my colleague's grade 7 (M. 1) textbook and as soon as I dropped one of those on him he would shut up and get right to work.

Teaching math is one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had teaching in Thailand. All the BS that teaching English requires goes out the window because it's liner and has immediate application to their daily lives. Mind you, there is a very big English teaching component when teaching math to Thai young learners in English but, we learn it as it comes up and it's not the focus of the class.

By the way, the parent teacher conference I had with this student and his family was probably the best I've ever had. His father teared up when I complimented him on his work with his son and told him how far ahead of the rest of the class he was. At the end of the semester his father gave me a gold-plated pen that I later learned must have cost well over 10,000 Baht. Sometimes, just sometimes, the job has it's rewarding moments and you must take solace in those fleeting moments because 99% of the rest of it is running around to put out one fire after another. Planning ahead has very little value and well over half the BS a teacher has to deal with in this country could be eliminated with a little pro-active planning.

Thanks for raising this important issue, good post!

No problem. Growing up, my parent's were teacher's and they had a huge influence on my life and I got so much encouragement from them. Some of the kid's parent's at my school don't bother to even ask their kid if they have homework, let alone ask them what they learned at school. The man who is helping my school has studied in the US before. He has 1 young daughter and she can already speak, read, and write English thanks to him spending time after school and on weekend to help her study. Granted, his English is quite good...but even if the parent's don't know much English, they can still encourage them and tell them what a great job they're doing in their studies, etc.

Young children need encouragement, especially from their family. Many parent's here seem to assume their kids will just follow in their foot steps and become a farmer or work in the family business. My best students are the one's that have parent's (whether rich or poor,) who help their children with their studies and encourage them to do well in school.

I also agree that the pass/no pass policy for kids, especially for high school age kids, is not helping. In the US, they hold kids back...heck, I was held back 1 grade (nope, not ashamed to admit it haha, plus it was kindergarten (don't ask...)

Some children just need more time than others...but that would cause the family to lose face...sooo probably won't happen here. As long as the kids feel they can pass without doing any real work, they won't become good at English...Just my 2 cents.

[culicine]

First things first, remove the "no fail" policy that pervades academia here.

Just give them the grade they got:) Problem is, if the kid gets a zero its the teacher's fault, nevermind the kid either has a learning disability, never turned up to school, never handed in any work, etc. Certainly, school admin will take no responsibility; it's always the teachers fault. That's why most teachers end up dumbing down the work, just to get most kids to pass the first time round.

very accurate comic !!

[culicine]

Also, the parent's do not always encourage the students like they should. I've also been told from teachers that some of the reasons why students go to school at all around here is because they want to get out of helping their parents on the farm or family business. Of course...I live in a rural area, so not sure how it would be in, for example, Bangkok.

You raise an excellent point here that should have been raised long ago. Particularly in the "better" schools, especially private schools, parents seem to feel that once they fork over the money for tuition they can wash their hands of the matter and their children's education is completely in the hands of the school. There is very little concept of how truly getting a good education requires the parents to support the school and teachers and engage their children to learn at home.

One rare exception to this pretty much universal phenomenon was teaching math at a private school to grades 2 and 3. One student's father was an engineer and his father would sit with him every night working on math with him. He was already 4 grades ahead of his classmates and because of it caused a major classroom management headache for me. He would race through an activity that took the rest of the students half a class to complete in 5-minutes, get bored and become disruptive. I quickly realized I needed to work a bit harder to keep this kid busy so, I started photocopying worksheets from one of my colleague's grade 7 (M. 1) textbook and as soon as I dropped one of those on him he would shut up and get right to work.

Teaching math is one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had teaching in Thailand. All the BS that teaching English requires goes out the window because it's liner and has immediate application to their daily lives. Mind you, there is a very big English teaching component when teaching math to Thai young learners in English but, we learn it as it comes up and it's not the focus of the class.

By the way, the parent teacher conference I had with this student and his family was probably the best I've ever had. His father teared up when I complimented him on his work with his son and told him how far ahead of the rest of the class he was. At the end of the semester his father gave me a gold-plated pen that I later learned must have cost well over 10,000 Baht. Sometimes, just sometimes, the job has it's rewarding moments and you must take solace in those fleeting moments because 99% of the rest of it is running around to put out one fire after another. Planning ahead has very little value and well over half the BS a teacher has to deal with in this country could be eliminated with a little pro-active planning.

Thanks for raising this important issue, good post!

No problem. Growing up, my parent's were teacher's and they had a huge influence on my life and I got so much encouragement from them. Some of the kid's parent's at my school don't bother to even ask their kid if they have homework, let alone ask them what they learned at school. The man who is helping my school has studied in the US before. He has 1 young daughter and she can already speak, read, and write English thanks to him spending time after school and on weekend to help her study. Granted, his English is quite good...but even if the parent's don't know much English, they can still encourage them and tell them what a great job they're doing in their studies, etc.

Young children need encouragement, especially from their family. Many parent's here seem to assume their kids will just follow in their foot steps and become a farmer or work in the family business. My best students are the one's that have parent's (whether rich or poor,) who help their children with their studies and encourage them to do well in school.

I also agree that the pass/no pass policy for kids, especially for high school age kids, is not helping. In the US, they hold kids back...heck, I was held back 1 grade (nope, not ashamed to admit it haha, plus it was kindergarten (don't ask...)

Some children just need more time than others...but that would cause the family to lose face...sooo probably won't happen here. As long as the kids feel they can pass without doing any real work, they won't become good at English...Just my 2 cents.

Sadly, many kids are not learning much across the board - not just english. Strangely, it's these very same lazy kids who slept all through high school who fly into a blind panic at the end of M6 and then go to cram tutorial schools in the wain hope of passing an entrance exam. We even had one joker fly to Puket to do SAT exams. I'm sure he didn't even know what a SAT was, only that he needed to do it for a particular course. Good luck on that....sheesh

[MisterE]

That's how most foreign teachers of good conscience will act.

Down deep, they know what's right whether they follow it or not.

That's very true and future employers, who do their due diligence, are products of the same education system and they know damn well what the the ocean of difference between what a barely passing D grade (e.g. should have failed) what and a high B grade means.

I know personally of a private school that "doesn't accept" grades under 75% for the students.

Edited March 11, 2013 by MisterE

[MisterE]

Some children just need more time than others...but that would cause the family to lose face...sooo probably won't happen here. As long as the kids feel they can pass without doing any real work, they won't become good at English...Just my 2 cents.

Or any other subject and teachers will have no real authority or respect. Well siad and spot on!

The 'respect' teachers are given is part of a much larger smoke and mirrors act. False respect is an easy trade to get one to work for a pittance (Thai and foreign teachers alike.)