School Withholding Salary Until Grades Handed In

[chonabot]

Another amazing gripe from my school

We were handed the results from the Final exams on Tuesday.

We have to put these into the student record books and process them via the Access database into the school records.

The whole process takes about 2 days, I have 1000 students.

This week we had a visit from 3 foreign schools and were put on activity duty Tuesday, Wednesday and today.

So this afternoon we started doing the grades and were told we must hand them in by Tuesday next week - no problem.

Today is our payday and at 15:00 we trudged down to the cash office.

we were told by a smug cashier that we will not be paid until the grades are handed in.

We confronted our Head of Department who sheepishly told us the same, but it was the director's decision, not his ( His usual response )

Had we not been helping the school with the activities we could have handed the grades in already.

I was tempted to blow a fuse and just walk out, telling him to call me when my money was ready.

I calmed down and continued processing the grades - but surely this is illegal?

This only applies to foreign teachers.

This is Thailand and as such we have very few rights, but I am f+cked if I will spend another year at this school

Edited February 28, 2013 by chonabot

[Scott]

Does your contract specify a specific date by which you will be paid? If so, are they violating it? I know some schools pay on the last working day of the month, some will pay no later than the 1st or 2nd day of the following month, depending on how the days fall, but it is usually specified.

[harrry]

Except for the harm to the kids I would be inclined to put the grades in an envelope, include a letter to the Labour Department saying they refuse to give due pay then tell them no pay this is what happens.

In practice I think I would consider the kids and do what I could to get them their grades..but I would not have much loyalty for the school left. I have not taught here but I have lectured elsewhere.l

[chonabot]

Does your contract specify a specific date by which you will be paid? If so, are they violating it? I know some schools pay on the last working day of the month, some will pay no later than the 1st or 2nd day of the following month, depending on how the days fall, but it is usually specified.

The contract specifies the last working day of the month - today

They always pay promptly on the last day, so I am fairly shocked at this action.

[KKvampire]

Not a hope in hell of winning in any dispute at a Thai school.Falang v head of english

[Tywais]

Believe Labor must have an ombudsman to bring this to the attention of. Just mentioning such to the Director, et al could be sufficient. Of course that could have its own repercussions.

[Loaded]

Thai schools have had experience of foreign teachers getting paid and then disappearing the next day. The grades are very important to the school and delaying salary payment until they're in is covering their back. It's pragmatic, it's not in the contract and the Labour Office isn't interested unless the salary is never paid.

[Scott]

The bottom line of working is money. It would seem that someone is not keeping up their end of the deal and I would be very skeptical about working for such a school. You went to work. You worked. You should be paid.

[Scott]

Thai schools have had experience of foreign teachers getting paid and then disappearing the next day. The grades are very important to the school and delaying salary payment until they're in is covering their back. It's pragmatic, it's not in the contract and the Labour Office isn't interested unless the salary is never paid.

Not paying your employees in a timely manner is not pragmatic. It is counter productive. Where I work, I have a copy of the scores and I have the exam papers for all of the students. That is just prudent. It's a little late in the year for teachers to be pulling a runner, but things do happen. Teachers get into accidents. The school has to be prepared to reconstruct the scores should something unforeseen happen.

A lot of people have bills to pay--car payments, mortgages. God help them if they don't make the tuition payments, because the school will not give the student their grades.

[chonabot]

Thai schools have had experience of foreign teachers getting paid and then disappearing the next day. The grades are very important to the school and delaying salary payment until they're in is covering their back. It's pragmatic, it's not in the contract and the Labour Office isn't interested unless the salary is never paid.

Four of the six teachers have worked here for over three years, plus we are getting paid for March as well.

Covering their back may well result in them looking for six new teachers, hardly forward thinking IMO

On an amusing note, our landlady is a teacher at my school. My wife called her to say we will not be paying the rent until I am paid.

Her response was fairly hysterical

Edited February 28, 2013 by chonabot

[Loaded]

The bottom line of working is money. It would seem that someone is not keeping up their end of the deal and I would be very skeptical about working for such a school. You went to work. You worked. You should be paid.

But if the contractual obligations include final grades from the foreign teachers and the schools have been stiffed before, I can understand, but not necessarily agree with, their behaviour. It is a small minority of foreign teachers who let schools down, but it forces schools who have been burnt in the past to defend themselves.

The school has delayed payment, not not paid.

[culicine]

I don't have a solution. But you can make a few suggestions to the school. We also get paid at the end of the month, but our grades are due next week. Then we sit in the office till the end of march not doing much and also get paid for that.

You can suggest to the school: the school holds the exam papers. You collect them during the day and do marking. Then return them to the office at the end of the day. They are not to be taken home. Before the exams, the school asks the teacher to supply an answer key for the exams. Even if the teacher does a runner after pay day, the school still has the exams and an answer key. All is not lost. And you get paid on the correct day also. Are you not also paid in March? No April holiday pay?

[chonabot]

I don't have a solution. But you can make a few suggestions to the school. We also get paid at the end of the month, but our grades are due next week. Then we sit in the office till the end of march not doing much and also get paid for that.

You can suggest to the school: the school holds the exam papers. You collect them during the day and do marking. Then return them to the office at the end of the day. They are not to be taken home. Before the exams, the school asks the teacher to supply an answer key for the exams. Even if the teacher does a runner after pay day, the school still has the exams and an answer key. All is not lost. And you get paid on the correct day also. Are you not also paid in March? No April holiday pay?

Yes, I mentioned we are paid in March earlier. My contract ends on the 31st of March.

We were told to hand the grade books and flash drives in next Tuesday, but that is 3 working days after our payday.

This deadline has been common knowledge for the last 2 weeks, which is why today was such a bombshell.

I will probably be able to finish mine tomorrow.

The Final test marking was done last weekend by the machine, what we are doing is transferring those grades to the students records and the school database.

All of the Thai teachers have had this process completed by the help of assistant teachers, well actually the assistants did all of it !

The NES teachers each have 18-20 books of student records, whereas the Thai teachers have 6-8.

I'm not going to accept any further offers of employment from this school as I have lost any smidgeon of trust that I used to have in them.

Edited February 28, 2013 by chonabot

[naboo]

Go and talk to the boss.

Explain that usually you would have the grades in by now, but you've not had time to do so due to the visit of other schools and the activities you very much enjoyed participating in.

Word things very carefully not to threaten, but to suggest that in the future you may not be so willing to entertain visitors.

For example:

"I very much enjoyed our time with the visiting schools, found the experience enriching and believe that I am a better teacher for it. Thank you for arranging such an opportunity. However, my wife is furious that I don't have money to pay the rent and is asking why I was working with the visitors when I had to complete work to submit the grades by Thursday."

Should get the message across.

[culicine]

I don't have a solution. But you can make a few suggestions to the school. We also get paid at the end of the month, but our grades are due next week. Then we sit in the office till the end of march not doing much and also get paid for that.

You can suggest to the school: the school holds the exam papers. You collect them during the day and do marking. Then return them to the office at the end of the day. They are not to be taken home. Before the exams, the school asks the teacher to supply an answer key for the exams. Even if the teacher does a runner after pay day, the school still has the exams and an answer key. All is not lost. And you get paid on the correct day also. Are you not also paid in March? No April holiday pay?

Yes, I mentioned we are paid in March earlier. My contract ends on the 31st of March.

We were told to hand the grade books and flash drives in next Tuesday, but that is 3 working days after our payday.

This deadline has been common knowledge for the last 2 weeks, which is why today was such a bombshell.

I will probably be able to finish mine tomorrow.

The Final test marking was done last weekend by the machine, what we are doing is transferring those grades to the students records and the school database.

All of the Thai teachers have had this process completed by the help of assistant teachers, well actually the assistants did all of it !

The NES teachers each have 18-20 books of student records, whereas the Thai teachers have 6-8.

I'm not going to accept any further offers of employment from this school as I have lost any smidgeon of trust that I used to have in them.

OK, it seems you SHOULD be paid on time, as you are also being paid in March. It makes no sense to do a runner and miss a whole month of salary. I don't know about you but I sit around most of March not doing much, though the summer school starts in the last week of march which I'm also paid extra for. If you are on the normal 25/30K baht a month salary, there are plenty of schools paying that amount, so it shouldn't be a problem getting another job, provided you are not tied down in your province.

[SlyAnimal]

Thinking with my heart - I'd be fuming, I'd be absolutely seething with rage at the principal that they think I'm going to do a runner without finishing my grades! The fact that they don't trust me would really make me want to throw my toys and make a scene. The idea of simply confiscating the material needed for their grades, and not working on it until I was paid springs to mind.... as does the prospect of simply handing in a USB stick where every student in the school gets a 4.0, just so I can pickup my salary that day).

Thinking with my head - You'll have the grades done in 1-2 days, maybe by the end of school on Friday, at latest Mon/Tues. It's probably not that much of a hassle to wait a couple of days. Car/Rent payments etc can probably wait until the 2nd or 3rd working day of the month I'm sure. Much better to not kick up a fuss and burn your bridges, as having worked at the school for a while, you'll want a good reference from them, and you'll want to ensure you get paid for both Feb and March, as there's very little work to do in either.

For me, my head usually wins out, even if my heart occasionally gets caught up in the heat of the moment. The reason my head usually wins, is because my head chooses the smart option. I'm sure that you'll likewise choose the same

Then you'll come to a decision on whether to continue at your school, or find a new one..... A new one might have the same, or worse problems as your current one, it might pay more, or less, and then you have to move to another city/town where you'll be away from your friends etc. So think about how bad your school really is, if you (And others at your school), have been there for 3+ years, it's probably not such a bad place to work.

However if you do decide to stay, maybe flatly refuse anything which interferes with you doing grades/necessary work, as "If I do this activity, I might not have time to do my grades. And I'd hate to have my salary delayed same as last year". It's petty, but shoving it in their faces will be a nice way of teaching them a lesson and making yourself feel a little bit better at the same time.

Of course, having 6 teachers all walk out at the conclusion of their contracts (Or for a strike), citing the director's directive regarding your salary as the reason, might also make you feel better lol. However it probably wouldn't do you any favours if you want a reference for your next job.

[chonabot]

Thanks Sly, I have decided to follow my head for now.

But I will not stay at a school that has such flagrant disrespect for hard working teachers.

It is a shame because you get kind of used to the place and the students are good, mostly

[mike123ca]

Is this a public or a private school?

Unfortunately there are different laws

regarding the legal rights of teachers.

[chonabot]

Well the Head of English kind of apologised and paid us today.

He mentioned something about two teachers being late with the scores/grades last semester and that was that.

I'm still going to leave, but at least we've been paid.

[WonnabeBiker]

Can't say I'm surprised.

You all should demand a hearing by the school'd Welfare Commission (a must - if they have at least 50 employees).

For the hell of it, I would go to Labour Court as well.

Otherwise, they will build on their experience and those who will follow you will have to suffer even more.

There's a clear trend to ruthless cost cutting. Foreign teachers are replaced by Asians (am not using the P-word). Voila,

10,000 Baht a month instant saving! When a director wants to save more, he will hire Africans. Thick accent, rudimentary vocab?

No problem. They are working on T-Visas anyhow...

On Tuesday I had a Thai speaker call the regional educational office to discuss the unpaid salary (many moons ago).

Their in house lawyer was surprised that anyone would threaten court action over a small thing like unpaid wages.

He couldn't or wouldn't speak a single word of English. (Good luck with AESAN 2015 y'll).

Moreover, this week, 3 power of attorneys were sent to my Thai lawyer as another school failed to pay the months'

unpaid salary for time worked, notice period, severance etc. You see, you got to force a school to the negotiation table.

A summons by the Labour Court will accomplish that.

Add 15% to your salary. Send that letter by EMS to the school, demanding a meeting by their Welfare Commission.

Giving some Somchai a hard on and bragging rights how he shafted some foreigners would be terrible. Giving in

to his demands would make him come. I would say, teach him a lesson he and all colleagues won't forget

[WonnabeBiker]

Glad you've been paid, Ajarn Chonabot! (Apologies for not having read the thread before replying)

[Scott]

I would not pursue anything legal, because you have been paid.

In the past month I have been interviewing teachers for some upcoming job openings. Several people have left rather good paying jobs because of the admin messing around with the amount or time of payment.

[culicine]

Sadly, most teaching jobs seem to be like this. A few nasty teachers in the past have spoiled it for the long term teachers who do the right thing. I was on time everyday for the past academic year (1 excused late because of major traffic jam near my school). Yet I still have to sign in by thumb scanner because teachers in the past don't bother showing up until 1 minute before class starts, or later.

[NoshowJones]

I don't have a solution. But you can make a few suggestions to the school. We also get paid at the end of the month, but our grades are due next week. Then we sit in the office till the end of march not doing much and also get paid for that.

You can suggest to the school: the school holds the exam papers. You collect them during the day and do marking. Then return them to the office at the end of the day. They are not to be taken home. Before the exams, the school asks the teacher to supply an answer key for the exams. Even if the teacher does a runner after pay day, the school still has the exams and an answer key. All is not lost. And you get paid on the correct day also. Are you not also paid in March? No April holiday pay?

I never ever got paid for the end of term holidays, although I did for the mid term holidays in October, but again, I do not have a Batchelors degree. but I always had a work permit. and it was renewed for the next term. I was just happy to have a good well paid job with only a TEFL certificate to my name, so I never complained. I loved being a school teacher and never had any problem with the other teachers or the directors. The only reason I am not working now is up country there are always qualified Philipino teachers who will work for a lot less wages.

[engrin]

At least they pay at the end of the month here (making it easy to do a runner). Other countries in Asia pay their teachers 2 weeks later thus always having half a months salary on the teacher

[PREM-R]

A leading school in Khon Kaen has anounced that they will be reducing the salary of all foreign teachers by 10,000 baht per month and will be paying 11 months only with the 12th month to be paid as a bonus "subject to performance". The news was given last week and they have until Thursday of this week to sign new contracts. Some of the teachers involved have been at the school for several years but are now actively looking for new posts, even though they intend to sign the contracts before the deadline.

[SlyAnimal]

I'm going to lock this topic, as the original issue has been resolved, and discussion seems to be moving off topic.