"facts" About Becoming A Thai Citizen

[endure]

Flames have been removed. If you can't be civil be quiet.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I get to drive a Tuk-tuk without the need of a work permit and sit on corners yelling out 'hey mister - you wan gran palat tour? 30 baht'. Slumming it with my other third world buddies I guess.

Well, no matter how hard you try, not matter what colour your passport is you will ALWAYS be farang and not Thai. So whats the poiint?

A Thai in the US is an American, it aint the same vice versa.

So, I maintain, why bother?

Where is this utopian America of which you speak? I have never been there.

Unless you're born in America, you're always a foreigner to most people. Ask a turban-wearing Sikh immigrant about his experiences...or a new Mexican immigrant who speaks little English. You might find them enlightening.

In any case, I can tell you that I am regarded 100% differently once people in Thailand know I am a citizen.

[conquest]

I get to drive a Tuk-tuk without the need of a work permit and sit on corners yelling out 'hey mister - you wan gran palat tour? 30 baht'. Slumming it with my other third world buddies I guess.

Well, no matter how hard you try, not matter what colour your passport is you will ALWAYS be farang and not Thai. So whats the poiint?

A Thai in the US is an American, it aint the same vice versa.

So, I maintain, why bother?

3 Year: This thread is about gaining "facts" about obtaining Thai Citizenship and not about the value of having it. I don't really see how your posts are adding any value to this otherwise very informative thread.

[samran]

I get to drive a Tuk-tuk without the need of a work permit and sit on corners yelling out 'hey mister - you wan gran palat tour? 30 baht'. Slumming it with my other third world buddies I guess.

Well, no matter how hard you try, not matter what colour your passport is you will ALWAYS be farang and not Thai. So whats the poiint?

A Thai in the US is an American, it aint the same vice versa.

So, I maintain, why bother?

Ah, I see, you assume a desire on behalf of applicants to be one with the locals, to eat som tum and pla rah and to watch silly soaps on TV at night?

As long as you are comfortable in your skin, there is no need to be seen as anything. For sure, the bureaucracy treats you as Thai. Show your ID card and everything works with little hassle. For being seen as thai, think it comes down to being treated with respect, which I think comes with how you treat and interact with others, not what passport you own. No doubt though, the convenience factor trumps all else of having the brown book. And for living in SE Asia, having the thai passport is much more preferable travel wise than my australian passport. Given that I travel a lot it is useful. I can own my own business, which I do, and can own land a outright. No restrictions, no need for legal fudges, which if you live in a country, is worthwhile. But if that is not enough for you, then so be it.

Edited March 9, 2013 by samran

[lopburi3]

Troll removed.

[Brunus]

If you are male

You need a Thai wife, 3 years in a Yellow House book and 3 years tax returns for a full-time job with work permit and 3 years in Thailand on the correct VISA extension (not retirement, not something that requires VISA runs)

If you are working on some sort of temporary contract or a 1 year contract forget it, it has to be a permanent job.

If you have been on VISAs issued outside Thailand forget it, if you are on retirement extension forget it.

If you have been working as a school-teacher on less than 40k a month, forget it.

3 years in yellow book not required but need to be in one. You will need to be on more than a 3 month visa run visa to get into the yellow book. Make sure you have a WP for the whole 3 years of your tax receipts. Changing jobs is OK but don't have any significant gaps.

My company gives me a one year contract but it renews it every year, so there is no gap between one contract and the other. Same thing for my WP. My question is can I apply for Thai citizenship (I meet all the other requirements)?

[ubonjoe]

As long as you are getting extensions of stay at immigration the answer is yes.

[Brunus]

Yes I do. So you do conferm that the statement "If you are working on some sort of temporary contract or a 1 year contract forget it, it has to be a permanent job." is wrong?

[ubonjoe]

Yes

As long as you have been constantly employed and have gotten extensions of stay based upon your work.

[Brunus]

I have been constantly employed, but my extensions of stay are based on marriage. Is it ok?

[ubonjoe]

Of course and even better.

Just as long as you have been constantly employed for 3 years and can show income of 40K baht proven by your tax payments.

Many companies only do 1 year contracts and simply renew them every year.

[Brunus]

Yes, this is my case. Thanks a lot for your kind help

[nontabury]

Why would you not if intending to live here for a lifetime? Many of us never had or will have that choice but those that do it would seem the logical path to take - much more advantageous than PR process in my opinion and really not harder it seems.

I intend to be in Thailand for a lifetime yet I still no real advantage to all the ballache when a visa will suffice.

Basically cause it isn't hard, you just submit the paperwork they need (house reg, marriage cert, income tax history etc) and they fill in the forms. A day of your time and then simply a waiting game.

So few get it as so few either qualify for it, or as in your case, seem to want it. Others yet seem to think that it is only for a select few with uber connections. For the rest of us, showing a bit of paperwork which in the main you already have and taking half a morning out at special branch isn't a hardship.

A few years ago you said I should be banned from TV because I stated that only a handful of farangs are granted Thai passports each year,you disputed my statement,but could not prove me wrong.You then went on to tell us that your wife had applied for Thai citizenship a few years earlier,can you now inform us that your wife has finally received official notification

That her application has been successful.

Can't remember the former, so I'd appriciate a link to where I said you should be banned. I don't think I've ever said lots of farangs get Thai citizenship on an annual basis, but I've always said there are plenty of farang's with Thai passports about. You just don't notice them as they hide in plain sight. I know around half a dozen people who do have Thai passports and are of European extraction (and have met a few more), and my humourous line is that I don't even get out very much.

So I'd appriciate a link and if a mea culpa is in order, you'll find me willing to give one.

As for my wife, we've had her application on hold for about 2 years now. We were living back in Australia due to long illness in my family and helping care for that family member, while I commuted backwards and forwards (and currently still do spending more than half my year in Thailand). The application was put on hold as my wife was not able to attend the final interview with the MOI panel on such short notice (and they only usually give you a couple of days notice...).

We sent a letter to Special Branch informing of our circumstances, and they suggested that we not put the appication back in process as we would likely be called up for interviews quite quickly (within a month or two). So we are planning to move back permaently mid year and we'll get the application back through the sausage maker then.

All I can tell you is what the SB told me, and that was if we hadn't put it on hold, my wife would have had her Thai passport by now. Which would have equated to about 3 years for processing.

Sorry I've been unable to retrieve the relevant thread from approx August 2010.I can remember two post I made,1/ were I mentioned how easy it was to obtain a British passport(as long as you attached the tops of 10 Kellogg corn flake boxes with your application)in comparison to obtaining a Thai Passport,2/ the quote from a previous thread,where a successful applicant had to wait a few years before he received the officially approved papers,due to some Thai government minister,who did not agree with ANY farangs obtaining Thai citizenship,simple leaving his successful application in his In-Tray for a few years before he signed it off. Hopefully this does not occur nowadays.

Your wife initially submitted her application in early 2008,lets hope it will not be to long before she deservedly receives her Thai citizenship.

[Arkady]

If you are male

You need a Thai wife, 3 years in a Yellow House book and 3 years tax returns for a full-time job with work permit and 3 years in Thailand on the correct VISA extension (not retirement, not something that requires VISA runs)

If you are working on some sort of temporary contract or a 1 year contract forget it, it has to be a permanent job.

If you have been on VISAs issued outside Thailand forget it, if you are on retirement extension forget it.

If you have been working as a school-teacher on less than 40k a month, forget it.

3 years in yellow book not required but need to be in one. You will need to be on more than a 3 month visa run visa to get into the yellow book. Make sure you have a WP for the whole 3 years of your tax receipts. Changing jobs is OK but don't have any significant gaps.

My company gives me a one year contract but it renews it every year, so there is no gap between one contract and the other. Same thing for my WP. My question is can I apply for Thai citizenship (I meet all the other requirements)?

I don't see a problem here. If you contract is renewed annually, you should have the same work permit that is also renewed annually. They don't ask for a copy of your employment contract. They just need a letter from your employer that states the date you started work with them and what salary you currently earn. Obviously the starting date is the date you started the first contract, or more specifically the date of commencement of your work permit with that company.

[Arkady]

I have a couple of questions on this topic. Its been very informative so far.

1. How stringent are the rules on being fluent in Thai? Especially the written aspect. How do you prove it? I have at least 3 years before I can apply, my Thai is reasonable already, but I have never put in any effort to learning to write in Thai; spelling is a nightmare and I could not see the benefit, until now perhaps.

2. I work offshore, so am out of the country about 6 months a year; 4-6 weeks at a time. Is there any minimum time I must spend in Thailand in any given year to qualify? I plan on getting a work permit and pay Thai tax based on a company I will open shortly.

I cant access the special branch website for some reason.

There is no requirement to speak Thai for those who are married to a Thai.

Earning a pile of money gets you more points than speaking Thai.

You need to earn the money in Thailand and have a Thai work permit, I doubt any offshore workers would qualify.

To clarify the language requirement. The 2008 Nationality Act provides exemptions to men married to Thais from the requirement to have knowledge of the Thai language and the requirement for 5 years' residence in the Kingdom (PR).

As you know, in Thailand's legal system acts of parliament always have some wording like "subject to relevant ministerial regulations" which allows the ministry responsible for that law to flesh it out with regulations that don't need to go before parliament. They are just signed by the minister which gives the government and bureaucrats flexibility to amend the way laws are implemented at short notice.

The ministerial regulations interpret the exemption from knowledge of the Thai language in a blindingly simple way, i.e. you don't have to sing the National and Royal Anthems. Special Branch is also not required to certify that you can speak and understand the Thai language. However, you still have to take the Thai language tests and the general knowledge test that is in Thai but the reading and writing tests are optional, even if you don't have a Thai wife, as long as you are willing to give up the points for that part. If you need more points, or just for the hell of it, you can sing the songs at Special Branch, even if you have a Thai wife but the MoI won't let you sing in that case. Everything else is the same for those with and without Thai wives. All interviews at Special Branch and the MoI are conducted in Thai and you need to be able to write your name in Thai.

If you can only communicate very poorly in Thai or not at all, you run a high risk of rejection after the MoI interview on the very reasonable grounds of inability/ unwillingness to assimilate into Thai society. I think this happens rarely because most people won't dare apply, if they don't think they can get through the interviews. However, abject failure in singing the songs for those who have to sing, is a not uncommon ground for rejection. So the exemption is really worth something. I believe you can reapply but that would add years to the process.

Great stuff. Thanks for that, and the other posters who also contributed. So basically if I want to maximise my points, then good written Thai has some benefit, and high level speaking and listening skills are, for practical purposes, essential.

I was not even aware that there was a point system or that PR was not a requirement for those married to thai women. It doesn't look as hard as I thought it would be. Its been a very informative thread.

Here are how the points are allocated (my own translation attached). You get 3 more points for reading and writing Thai and another 2 for being able to sing the National and Royal anthems. Not much but, if you've got it, why not flaunt it?

Points Allocation 2010 EN.doc

Edited March 10, 2013 by Arkady

[Jingo]

What if you paid the 10,000,000 baht to get the investor visa and extend it ever since? Heck it used to be only 3,000,000 baht so I don't see why retirees or other people wouldn't just buy property to get the investor visa (if they don't work or are like me and own a business abroad) I've heard plenty of people are still using those 3 million baht ones and extending them.

Even though I'm using a work visa, I had planned to change it to an investor visa (it's easy to change it I heard), so my question is just if the investor visa equally applies or if there is a certain number of months each year I have to stay inside the country? Also is it possible to ever have your investment visa extension rejected for not staying inside a certain number of months? Or is it all good as long as you keep the investment in place?

[Mario2008]

There is no inimum requirement for the mnths you must stay in Thailand, as long as you are in Thailand when the time comes to extend your permission to stay you will be fine.

[ubonjoe]

The 3 million baht investment extension went away in 2006. For those that got it before 2006 they can get extensions for 3 million. For new applications it is 10 million baht.

Only Condos can be used as part of investment.

[Arkady]

The 3 million baht investment extension went away in 2006. For those that got it before 2006 they can get extensions for 3 million. For new applications it is 10 million baht.

Only Condos can be used as part of investment.

There was a temporary reduction to Bt 3 million from Bt 10 million around 1999 as it was thought that this might stimulate foreigners to buy condos in the then moribund property sector. The reduction ended in 2006 and reverted to the original level. So, in fact, the Bt 10 million lower limit is many years out of date and is probably due for upward revision any time.

[Phaser]

The best way to fully understand the requirements to apply for Thai citizenship is to go to the Thai Special Branch (they have a Citizenship office) on Rama 1 in Bangkok. Special Branch handles the entire application process and coordinates all the other agencies and approvals including the Ministry of Interior and King's Office, etc. They have flow charts on the wall outlining the step by step process.

It took my about 3 years to finally get the Thai citizenship - yes, the process is all in Thai and you need to be able to speak Thai reasonably well.

There is a lot of paperwork, LOTS of waiting but in my case absolutely zero corruption. I just paid my THB 5,000 (if I recall correctly) fee, followed the long and cumbersome process including 3 different interviews in Thai and finally got it.

It was not easy, but I am very very happy I have it. No more work permit, no more visa, no more issues of Thai ownership of companies or land. I love my Thai passport and ID card and the only thing that would be better would be if the Thai passport was in the US Visa Waiver Program so that I could drop what is quickly becoming a 'toxic' US passport for Americans living outside the US for getting banking and finance services (I say this with much regret because I love the USA but this Administration is literally persecuting Americans living abroad and ruining a lot of lives making it untenable to keep that blue passport).

Will Thais 'accept' you? Look, you will never be 'Thai' but you will have Thai nationality and I have found Thais to be VERY accepting of a foreigner who manages to go through the difficult process of getting Thai nationality. It shows he/she is here, loves the country and the culture/language and made the effort. I am very happy I have it.

Hope this helps.

[Arkady]

There are quite a few posters who got their citizenship in 3 years a few years ago but it seems to be taking longer than that now. They have reduced the number of applicants they interview in one session at the ministry to make it a half day instead of a full day and getting a interview within 3 years is now considered very lucky. Some are still waiting longer than that for their appointments. There is no telling how long after that you will have to wait for the minister's signature. I was shown a newly issued naturalisation certificate by Special Branch of someone who had waited 11 years for it! Some say that one should plan for 7 years but there are always much faster and much slower cases without explanation. It is not a transparent process and everything depends on the discretion of the minister. Whoever is in the job can order the sluggish bureaucrats to speed up the process for everyone, as some have done in the past, or just let them do as they please which is normally the case, since nationality for foreigners is not a political priority.

However long it may take, one thing is sure: if you don't apply, you will never get it. Things may change for the better or the worse and you may even get lucky. If you are interested, just throw your hat into the ring and wait your turn. Of course, the naysayers who don't see the point, have a simple choice: do nothing.