N A S A Pulls Out Of Project To Study Climate Conditions In Thailand

[Buchholz]

Big Brother simply moved across a local border, offered some compensation and handouts and got what they wanted, the ability to monitor the Chinese. Weather monitoring?

Its funny all the other SE Asian countries dont see it that way. In fact they where all fighting over the opportunity to host the biggest science research project NASA has ever planned.

BTW the US has several other agencies to monitor the Chinese.They really dont need the help of NASA.

And I'm pretty sure, that if they want to fly over Thailand or use Thai air space they will.. What are the Thai's going to do, launch a missile at them?

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I would have doubts that they possess a missile system capable of striking at the great heights the U2 planes fly at... and that's if they could even detect them in the first place at that level.

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Edited March 7, 2013 by Buchholz

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's some interesting background and info on the so-called, ill-fated SEAC4RS project from NASA...

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/seac4rs.html

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/seac4rs

To accomplish the goals of SEAC4RS, multiple aircraft are required. The
NASA DC-8 will provide observations from near the surface to 12 km, and
the NASA ER-2 will provide high altitude observations reaching into the
lower stratosphere as well as important remote sensing observations
connecting satellites with observations from lower flying aircraft and
surface sites. A critical third aircraft needed to sample convective
outflow and slow ascent of air above the main convective outflow level
(~12 km) has been identified as the NSF/NCAR GV (HIAPER). Participation
by the GV will be through a collaboration in which the DC-8 will
participate in the NSF-sponsored DC3 mission.

Basing the aircraft in Thailand is optimal for achieving science objectives with a preferred base in U-Tapao, Thailand.

It's odd/interesting that on these NASA web pages, there seems to be no mention of the project having been completed or moved to a different country, as stated in the OP article here... In fact, both pages have been updated to say the project was cancelled.

Perhaps they called it something else when NASA did whatever they did, assuming the OP post is correct.

But in searching the NASA website, its airborne research site and news announcements page, I'm not finding any mention of anything else having gone on with NASA in Southeast Asia.

Edited March 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[dcutman]

Thais talk about the importance of face. In this instance, they forced the US Ambassador to lose face when they made her wait last year and then said "no" to the project proposal. Did they not understand that she lost face, having to tell her administration back in Washington DC that she was unable to gain Thai cooperation? I think turnabout is fair play. The Thais can say they are ready all they want... but if she says "no thanks" (to be read as: f*** you!), then the Thai bureaucrats can go back and try to explain why the US is conducting studies with other countries in the region and Thailand is not benefitting from the outcomes... or even from the "aura" of cooperation with the entity that put man on the moon using duct tape and chewing gum while Thailand can't even get 3G running 40 years later.

PS - NASA did the project with Vietnam... and gave them preferential rice prices!

(just kidding... I have no idea!)

It is very possible you are correct about Vietnam, at least hosting NASA anyway.

NASA currently collaborates with Vietnamese scientists via the AERONET

program, a global ground-based measurement network that provides

long-term, continuous data on aerosols in the atmosphere to strengthen

understanding of the Earth’s climate and climate change. During this

visit, NASA and VAST discussed potential future collaborations,

including the Southeast Asia Composition, Cloud, Climate Coupling

Regional Study (SEAC4RS), a planned fall 2012 project involving

air-based measurements to study the effects of aerosol emissions on

cloud formation, climate, and air quality in Southeast Asia; and the

GLOBE program for student education in environmental science.

http://vietnam.usembassy.gov/pr120611.html

I am sure The US gave their old Thai Allies first dibs, but had a backup plan in case they developed a "case of the dumbass".

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's also an interesting NASA planning document complete with photos and tourist advice for the scientists of how they were going to operate at U-Tapao.

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/sites/default/files/documents/seac4rs_sci_meet/feb_2012/03ThursdayAfternoon/Shiffer_ESPO.pdf

And the Univ. of Colorado scientist who was to be one of the leaders of the project talking about the reasons for it in a YouTube video copy of a news report.

Edited March 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pimay1]

Here's also an interesting NASA planning document complete with photos and tourist advice for the scientists of how they were going to operate at U-Tapao.

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/sites/default/files/documents/seac4rs_sci_meet/feb_2012/03ThursdayAfternoon/Shiffer_ESPO.pdf

And the Univ. of Colorado scientist who was to be one of the leaders of the project talking about the reasons for it in a YouTube video copy of a news report.

Very nice links thanks.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Scott

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Dunno if this NASA website info is current or out of date... But it now seems to be talking about this same kind of mission being planned for Aug-Sept of this year (2013) and possibly based out of Singapore.

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/attrex/content/SEAC4RS

Southeast Asia Composition, Cloud, Climate Coupling Regional Study (SEAC4RS) will
take place in August and September of 2013. This deployment will
address key questions regarding the influence of Asian emissions on
clouds, climate, and air quality as well as fundamental satellite
observability of the system. Science observations will focus
specifically on the role of the Asian monsoon circulation and convective
redistribution in governing upper atmospheric composition and
chemistry. Satellite observations suggest a strong impact of the Asian
Summer Monsoon on Tropopause Transition Layer (TTL) composition and a
direct relationship to surface sources including pollution, biogenic
emissions, and biomass burning. Attention will also be given to the
influence of biomass burning and pollution, their temporal evolution,
and ultimately impacts on meteorological processes which in turn feed
back into regional air quality. With respect to meteorological
feedbacks, the opportunity to examine the impact of polluting aerosols
on cloud properties and ultimately dynamics will be of particular
interest.

To accomplish the goals of SEAC4RS, two aircraft are required. The
NASA DC-8 will provide observations from near the surface to 12 km, and
the NASA ER-2 will provide high altitude observations reaching into the
lower stratosphere as well as important remote sensing observations
connecting satellites with observations from lower flying aircraft and
surface sites.

Singapore is currrently being reviewed as the basing option.

And more on the Singapore plans...

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/hs3/content/SEAC4RS_Deployment_Singapore_approx_dates_FR138301

SEAC4RS Deployment Singapore (approx. dates) FR138301

Aircraft:

DC-8 (See full schedule)

Activity Category:

Stateside Deployment

Location:

Southeast Asia

Date:

Friday, August 9, 2013 - Tuesday, October 1, 2013

Flight Request:

138301

And their aircraft deployment schedule to Singapore:

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/hs3/aircraft_detailed_cal/2013-08?aircraft_id=3

Edited March 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[dighambara]

said the government would comply with Nasa's decision

As if they have a choice in the matter.

They might still lodge a protest with the embassy and demand for NASA to return or be compensated for the money they could have made

Now that would not surprise me a bit.

The real dfficulty is that the US Government has no way to account for 'Tea Money'. Such funds must be stolen after approval and use of the base.

The Philippines has always been friendly - was once a part of the US and has many US citizens living there, so I suspect a deal was much easier, but Vietnam and the US have become accustomed to each other and like U-Tapao, there are excellent US built facilities there.

[Buchholz]

Dunno if this NASA website info is current or out of date... But it now seems to be talking about this same kind of mission being planned for Aug-Sept of this year (2013) and possibly based out of Singapore.

http://espo.nasa.gov/missions/attrex/content/SEAC4RS

Thanks for that all good info.

I particularly am intrigued by the map on page 8.

I wasn't aware there's a designated office, especially one so large, at U-Tapao for Red Horse beer, but I'll have to check it out next time.

.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Amid all this, I guess another question is what's become of the U.S. plan to use U-Tapao as a regional humanitarian assistance center....

http://www.exovera.com/content/thai-military-officials-appear-temper-enthusiasm-nasa-initiative-ahead-chinese-defense-chief

http://www.exovera.com/content/us-plans-increase-use-u-tapao-naval-base-rouse-thai-media-suspicion

News of a 14 June [2012] agreement to explore the possibility of using the
U-Tapao airbase as a regional logistics hub for US Humanitarian
Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) set off another firestorm in the
Thai press [see US Plans to Increase Use of U-Tapao Naval Base Rouse Thai Media Suspicion].
The deal was reached between Thai Foreign Minister Surapong
Tovichakchaiku and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the
US-Thailand Strategic Dialogue in Washington. As noted in our earlier analysis,
the Thai media has linked the US military’s use of U-Tapao for HADR
with the previously announced plan to use the base for NASA to conduct
its Southeast Asia Composition, Cloud, Climate Coupling Regional Study
(SEAC4RS) atmospheric studies. As observed online, some Thai
commentators see both projects as part of a US effort to counterbalance
China’s growing regional military power.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you look closely at the two SEAC4RS logos, one for 2013 in Singapore and the prior one for 2012 that had been planned in Thailand, you'll see the project appears to have been scaled down somewhat.

In particular, the 2013 logo no longer lists the NSF (National Science Foundation) as a participant and one of the three planned aircraft from 2012 (apparently the NSF one) is no longer depicted.

2013


2012

The two aircraft NASA plans to use for the 2013 mission are the ER-2 and its DC-8:

NASA ER-2

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-046-DFRC.html

The ER-2 is a versatile aircraft well suited to perform multiple mission tasks.

The ER-2 operates at altitudes from 20,000 feet to 70,000 feet, which is
above 99 percent of the Earth's atmosphere. Depending on aircraft
weight, the ER-2 reaches an initial cruise altitude of 65,000 feet
within 20 minutes. Typical cruise speed is 410 knots. The range for a
normal eight-hour mission is 3,000 nautical miles yielding seven hours
of data collection at altitude. The aircraft is capable of longer
missions in excess of 10 hours and ranges in excess of 6,000 nautical
miles. The ER-2 can carry a maximum payload of 2,600 pounds (1,179
kilograms) distributed in the equipment bay, nose area and wing pods.

The aircraft has four large pressurized experiment compartments and a
high capacity AC/DC electrical system, permitting it to carry a variety
of payloads on a single mission. The modular design of the aircraft
permits rapid installation or removal of payloads to meet changing
mission requirements.

NASA DC-8

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-050-DFRC.html

The NASA DC-8-72 is a four-engine jet transport aircraft that has been highly
modified to support the agency's Airborne Science mission. The aircraft,
acquired in 1985, is 157 feet long with a 148-foot wingspan. With a
range of 5,400 nautical miles, it can fly at altitudes from 1,000 to
42,000 feet for up to 12 hours, although most science missions average
six to 10 hours. The DC-8 can carry 30,000 pounds of scientific
instruments and equipment and can seat up to 45 experimenters and flight
crew.

The DC-8 incorporates a suite of sensors and data systems and provides
services that can be tailored to specific missions or instruments. The
DC-8 also has Iridium and Inmarsat satellite communications capability.
Two Iridium-based communications systems, one for flight crew
communications and one for science team communications, a multichannel
system for upload of meteorological data, chat messaging, limited data
telemetry and live Web page updates are available.

Edited March 7, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[maidu]

A NASA outpost here in Thailand would have been win-win for everyone involved - particularly young Thais who are drawn to real science.

The 3 main reasons it didn't happen:

>>> Thai authorities (many of whom have Chinese heritage) were cowed by Chinese officials - in regard to worries it would be used for surveillance of China (it wouldn't).

>>> Same Thai officials don't appreciate science. The part of their brains which might deal with science are shanghaied by beliefs in ghosts and hocus pocus.

>>> Thai officaldom simply forgot to deal with the NASA issue. They mai pen rai'ed it.