Fish Farming ... When It Goes Belly Up

[DonaldBattles]

I think that when I transferred water from the small pond to the large pond a lot of pla nin eggs went with the water. I thought that the plan nin would only hatch out in Jan and Feb. but obviously they can hatch anytime after they are laid without help of the mother fish. I have a lot in both lakes. Getting rid of them is a big issue. I have to be careful as I have a lot of ducks that like to play in the mud when the lakes are drained. Maybe next year it is only pla buk for me. This assumes that I can find the fingerlings.

[ray23]

Pla Nin eggs aer carried in the motuh of the fish, as far as I know. The fish I was talking about lay egss iin the rice field they lay dorment until the next rain. Then they hatch and look for a new home. That is what I found in my pond.

Not Pla Nin

Best ask the guys who know.

[canuckamuck]

I doubt the eggs survived the move, but fry would.

[DerkMR]

Well we pumped the little pond and I think I know where the catfish that were missing went and some Pla Mor as well. We found two of the rice field fish in the pond. They were huge fight buggers so they had be eatin well.

Have no idea how they got in there, the drains for the ponds are covered. We rainsed the s dirt a meter high and a block wall all around it. Unless we pumped egss in from the other ponds when we added water. If that is the sase got to be some in the big pond as well.

I'm letting the little pond dry. I will cement the botom. Make it easier to catch them instead spending hours muncking through the mud, Hopefully it will retian water better, No way I can take the mud out, othre then buckets and shevels.

When we pump the big pond in March, I will use if for a holding tank for the sellable fish and kill the little ones. I think this year I will just wait for Budha to fill the big pond.

I may just have to put a bore hole in and pump water from under ground, probably in the long run the least expensive way to do that, is to sit a solar pump system. More money up front but, less espensive to opearate adn w coudl use it n the mushrooms as well. We know the water level starts about about four meters we hit when we dug the big pond. Good fresh water not a salty,

In the end we need a better water supply. Lost the big pond we were pumping from, still hae two small ponds to use. But those fish came from somewhere and my best bet is from the ponds we were pumping from.

Interesting hobby.

What do you mean with "rice field fish"?

The two main introduced predators I know are snakehead (Pla chon, Pla chado) and swamp eel.

Swamp eels can be introduced as fry when pumping, snakeheads as fry when pumping or they just crawl into your pond - as you have a gate to your farm, that's where the bigger ones can come through. I just found two Pla chon while driving home, the one was walking across the street in bright midday sun, the other in late afternoon...

Pla Nin eggs aer carried in the motuh of the fish, as far as I know. The fish I was talking about lay egss iin the rice field they lay dorment until the next rain. Then they hatch and look for a new home. That is what I found in my pond.

Not Pla Nin

Best ask the guys who know.

Correct you are!

Pla nin eggs, if you get some out of the female mouth are very improbable to hatch successful, while small fry invade everything through the big mesh of slow running pumps (like the kubota type).

Bye,

Derk

[DonaldBattles]

Looks like my crop of Pla Suway will have to wait until they are 1 year old before most have reached a weight of 1 kg. RBH told me this before and now I see what he means. Plan tab tem should be ready a total of 9 months. This is my las time for pla tab tem. I am ready for some pla buk in the next go around. Has anyone raised pla buk before?

[ray23]

There is a fish that are common in rice fields, you can see Thai's going throigh the fields after the rain starts catching them to eat. They lay their eggs in the paddies, Those eggs lay dormant till the next rainy season, then they start looking for places to sit up camp. Ponds ect.

My place was sit up for them not get in our ponds. Our first try before the walls were built, they ate every fish in the pond. They were the only fish in the pond.

We have to pump from ponds that they can get into now, in that process we must have pumped some into our ponds. They didn't eat them all this time. But I woud say in the hundreds of fry. Maybe someone knows the proper name for them I don't they ae common in our area.

The only answer I can think of is to do a bore hole to add water as needed. The best solution in the long run is to use a solar powered pump. The question I have to answer is the hobby worth that kind of expense. I really don't know. The bottom line is you need something to keep the mind active.

Right not that is not hard planning motorcycle trips can keep you busy five months out of the year. That still leaves seven months. i find that if I spend to much time on forums I start to get to be a bitter old man. I don't drink and I don't want that lifestyle.

Sometimes it is just not about money. But, there are limits to everything.

Edited December 17, 2013 by ray23

[DerkMR]

There is a fish that are common in rice fields, you can see Thai's going throigh the fields after the rain starts catching them to eat. They lay their eggs in the paddies, Those eggs lay dormant till the next rainy season, then they start looking for places to sit up camp. Ponds ect.

Sounds like swamp eels.

They don't lay the eggs into the mud but the creatures just dig into it when a paddie falls dry and survive over months.

As soon as sufficient rain makes the soil soft again they crawl up to the surface.

They feed on nearly everything that moves starting from insect larvae, shrimps, fish, frogs and even dead animals.

When they breed - and as hermaphrodites just 2 are needed - the can have up to 1000 fry, so really fast eat up all you have in the pond.

Bye,

Derk

[DonaldBattles]

It appears that the Big Wai is probably better for me to grow next year. Does anyone have experience with the Big Wai?

[ray23]

There is a fish that are common in rice fields, you can see Thai's going throigh the fields after the rain starts catching them to eat. They lay their eggs in the paddies, Those eggs lay dormant till the next rainy season, then they start looking for places to sit up camp. Ponds ect.

Sounds like swamp eels.

They don't lay the eggs into the mud but the creatures just dig into it when a paddie falls dry and survive over months.

As soon as sufficient rain makes the soil soft again they crawl up to the surface.

They feed on nearly everything that moves starting from insect larvae, shrimps, fish, frogs and even dead animals.

When they breed - and as hermaphrodites just 2 are needed - the can have up to 1000 fry, so really fast eat up all you have in the pond.

Bye,

Derk

Thais call then Pla Chuun, look more like fish the eels. But, who knows. All i knw is I lost a lot of fish they were big fat and happy

[Jotham79]

About Pla Beuk..... the fry are very expensive. A few years ago I bought 10 that were about 12 cm at 100 baht each. A few months later I got some smaller ones (4 cm) for 20 baht each. We lost a few until we learned to put in a couple of pla duk fry to teach the Pla Beuk to feed on commercial pellets. Mine are now 3 kg + and I haven't had one take a bait since they were 1 kg. They are expensive as I have heard they get 80 to 100 baht per kilo at the market. When buying fry, be careful you are not buying a Sawai/Beuk or straight sawai as it is it is difficult to tell the fry apart. In any case I would not recommend them for commercial purposes.

[DonaldBattles]

For the cost and risk I think I will stay away from the plubuk. I am sure I would get cheated if I tried to buy in bulk. The big Wai or Big Oui seem to be the right ones for me if I can find them.

Anyone know where you can buy these?

[DerkMR]

There is a fish that are common in rice fields, you can see Thai's going throigh the fields after the rain starts catching them to eat. They lay their eggs in the paddies, Those eggs lay dormant till the next rainy season, then they start looking for places to sit up camp. Ponds ect.

Sounds like swamp eels.

They don't lay the eggs into the mud but the creatures just dig into it when a paddie falls dry and survive over months.

As soon as sufficient rain makes the soil soft again they crawl up to the surface.

They feed on nearly everything that moves starting from insect larvae, shrimps, fish, frogs and even dead animals.

When they breed - and as hermaphrodites just 2 are needed - the can have up to 1000 fry, so really fast eat up all you have in the pond.

Bye,

Derk

Thais call then Pla Chuun, look more like fish the eels. But, who knows. All i knw is I lost a lot of fish they were big fat and happy

OK, Pla chon, striped snakehead.

Also these you get as fry when pumping or they just "walk in" as they can walk real distances over land as they breathe air and are tough in drying out.

They can eat fishes up to 70% of their own size...

Bye,

Derk

[ray23]

Got the walk in covered eight foot block wall around the propety, so it's down to pumping. Not sure what i can do about that othe then to sit up a bore hole. Got to give that some thought. we hit sweet wate when dug the big pond/ Pla Non can live in salty water or fresh water.

It's just money now. get throuhg the mess I have now then I will decide.

My wife really liked eating the fish, darn expensive dinner.

[DerkMR]

Ray - you forgot the gate...

They can easily walk for a kilometer and the gate is the entry point when coming by foot

A good protection against walk-in as well as walk-out (e.g. Pla duk, Pla mor) is a surrounding net which is dug like 5 cm into the ground and at least 30 cm high.

Bye,

Derk

[Jotham79]

To keep fry out when pumping just feed all of the water through some blue plastic screen. You can put it around the suction or discharge (or both). To find catfish fry check with your province to see if they have a hatchery. They won't have everything everyday, but will usually post a schedule of what is coming up.

[ray23]

Thanks guys

[RedBullHorn]

About Pla Beuk..... the fry are very expensive. A few years ago I bought 10 that were about 12 cm at 100 baht each. A few months later I got some smaller ones (4 cm) for 20 baht each. We lost a few until we learned to put in a couple of pla duk fry to teach the Pla Beuk to feed on commercial pellets. Mine are now 3 kg + and I haven't had one take a bait since they were 1 kg. They are expensive as I have heard they get 80 to 100 baht per kilo at the market. When buying fry, be careful you are not buying a Sawai/Beuk or straight sawai as it is it is difficult to tell the fry apart. In any case I would not recommend them for commercial purposes.

The actual price for Pla Beuk (farm) is ฿200/kg and preferably 30kg above. Water level for Pla Beuk farm is 5m and there a couple of farms in Chiang Rai. Fingerling price is correct. They are expensive Jotham... and you on the spot in regards to the similarity between a Sawai and Pla Beuk, it hard to tell...

Edited December 18, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[RedBullHorn]

There is a fish that are common in rice fields, you can see Thai's going throigh the fields after the rain starts catching them to eat. They lay their eggs in the paddies, Those eggs lay dormant till the next rainy season, then they start looking for places to sit up camp. Ponds ect.

Sounds like swamp eels.

They don't lay the eggs into the mud but the creatures just dig into it when a paddie falls dry and survive over months.

As soon as sufficient rain makes the soil soft again they crawl up to the surface.

They feed on nearly everything that moves starting from insect larvae, shrimps, fish, frogs and even dead animals.

When they breed - and as hermaphrodites just 2 are needed - the can have up to 1000 fry, so really fast eat up all you have in the pond.

Bye,

Derk

Thais call then Pla Chuun, look more like fish the eels. But, who knows. All i knw is I lost a lot of fish they were big fat and happy

OK, Pla chon, striped snakehead.

Also these you get as fry when pumping or they just "walk in" as they can walk real distances over land as they breathe air and are tough in drying out.

They can eat fishes up to 70% of their own size...

Bye,

Derk

1. It will dry out unless its body is kept moist, just like Pla Duk.

2. Pla Chon are predatory fish, it only prey on smaller fish that can fit into its mouth, not the matter of ratio to their own size.

Edited December 18, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[ray23]

actually I wanted to move them to the big pond and get rid of the fry there. Wife wouldn't have it wanted to eat them and that she did,. That would have helped with the population problem in the big pond. I hate feeding the little ones I know I won't get anything out ofthem in the end, But to many mid size one to stop now, Still have four months grow time, Befoe we pump it out.

[DerkMR]

OK, Pla chon, striped snakehead.

Also these you get as fry when pumping or they just "walk in" as they can walk real distances over land as they breathe air and are tough in drying out.

They can eat fishes up to 70% of their own size...

Bye,

Derk

1. It will dry out unless its body is kept moist, just like Pla Duk.

2. Pla Chon are predatory fish, it only prey on smaller fish that can fit into its mouth, not the matter of ratio to their own size.

Yes it will dry out but it can walk really long distances over land.

I have one Pla chon in a fish tank which I found walking through our village in bright midday sun.

The surface already wasn't slimey anymore when I picked it up.

It survived without issues.

Also I had different snakeheads in my tanks and Pla chon and Pla chado are the ones that when young have no problems of eating their younger brothers only little smaller then themselves. Other snakeheads only take prey below 40-50% of their size but these two are hard swallowers when hungry. Of course if available they prefer smaller ones...

Bye,

Derk

[DonaldBattles]

Yesterday I heard the pla suway were bringing only 30 B/kg from brokers. I will leave them in the pod before I will sell for this. Hoping that they will help eat the eggs of the god awful pla nin that I still have after pumping and netting. The pla chon would be a blessing to eat the eggs from the pla nin.

[DerkMR]

Pla chon is also a possible fish for ponds. Fry not often available and like 70% loss due to cannibalism.

But the price they get is really good ;-)

Bye,

Derk

[Jotham79]

On finding fish on the road on sunny days: These most likely fall off trucks loaded with fish to sell in the villages. During heavy rains they will travel good distances, usually with or directly against the flow of water.

I have one pond that I call my supermarket. I have about a dozen species and predators are a part of the mix. It is managed to feed the family. I have two others with Pla Nin to sell, but not a serious venture. These are pumped out each year or two to take care of predators and fry (which are transferred to the supermarket if not sold). I also have 2 very small nursery ponds, but one the wife has loaded with Pla Tapian where she takes her sister-n-law and some children to fish. You just have to figure out what the purpose of the pond is.

I have been to a farm that raises Sawai. Multiple big ponds of several rai each and they dumped truck loads of chicken manure in for feed. Hard to profit from Sawai unless the feed is almost free.

Locally most Pla Buek sold are 10 kg or less so maybe this is why the price is lower. I doubt my 58 fish will get much over 5 kg as the pond is just not that large.

[DonaldBattles]

I am pretty convinced that the pla duk that I bought in Wiang Chai were all pla suway although they were not labeled that way and not priced that way. I can find evidence of very little of the 5000 pla duk that I bought but the pla suway are everywhere. They are a big waste as the Thais don't like to eat them. None of my Thai friends including my wife will eat them. What a mess. I have a choice of sport fishing with reduced food and taking them out all together. I won't do this until the end of April.

[Jotham79]

If you feed them for a week, the pla duk should start to raise up so you can see them. Or you could trap them. They will readily enter a baited funnel trap

The sawai are fun and I keep them until they are about 2+ KG and my wife cooks them in Hamok. You take a small bowl made out or banana leaves and lay down a layer of cabbage, then the fish and fill the bowl with a coconut curry. I love it.

Now I try not to raise anything I don't like to eat.

[DonaldBattles]

Anyone know where I can get a funnel trap in Chiang Rai?

[David48]

actually I wanted to move them to the big pond and get rid of the fry there. Wife wouldn't have it wanted to eat them and that she did,. That would have helped with the population problem in the big pond. I hate feeding the little ones I know I won't get anything out ofthem in the end, But to many mid size one to stop now, Still have four months grow time, Befoe we pump it out.

Ray, I'm doing a pond-fish-transfer at the moment.

[ray23]

This has to rank up there with the dumbest questiosn I have ever asked. Do fish slow their eating pattern in cold weather?

[David48]

This has to rank up there with the dumbest questiosn I have ever asked. Do fish slow their eating pattern in cold weather?

Ray23, Mate ... questions are never dumb.

My experience is yes. Metabolic rate slows.

That said ... I'm open to being challenged on my observations.

[DerkMR]

On finding fish on the road on sunny days: These most likely fall off trucks loaded with fish to sell in the villages. During heavy rains they will travel good distances, usually with or directly against the flow of water.

Well, snakeheads also do travel when it's not raining as they leave the waters without food or the ones drying out.

And in my area there are no trucks selling fish, the snakeheads just come from the muddy fields getting dry but normally don't walk around during daytime - but I already collected two which did within 10 days.

Bye,

Derk