Retired Gay Farang....

[Scott123]

Why all (or most of) the Farang/Thai relationship are older Farang and much younger Thai, and in a rural Thailand, with a lower living standard (compared to BKK or Western countries)?

Do rich (or western standard retired) farang simply not go to Thailand?

Why don't Farang buy a nice condo (e.g. the Regent in Sukhumvit), and find a nice thai bf (or multiple bfs) in BKK?

[peter991]

Interesting post there, Scott. While I cannot speak for others, I am (hopefully) about to retire shortly. I am in a relationship with a younger Thai guy and our house is in a poor Issan village.

I can't see why any farang would want to live in Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Ko Samui etc except for the nightlife. To me these are 'tourist Thailand' destinations. The real Thailand is found in the countryside.

Living in the countryside is a lot cheaper - so I can maintain a similar standard of living a lot cheaper.

Peter

[TopChinese]

The real Thailand is found in the countryside.

Oh please, who are you to tell people where the real Thailand is? There is an innate attraction to rustic living and the simple (but not uncomplicated) charms of living in the countryside. But a smoky hut in Issan is just as Thai as the beach life in Pattaya or the glamourous slums of Bangkok. In fact, I think it is very Thai to be sipping Whittard tea at Siam Paragon and then giving the farang begger outside MBK some spare change.

To the OP, you see a lot of inter-generational mixed couples because they are the ones who are most visible. They are everywhere, in Soi 4 or Twilight, at Patong Beach or canoodling outside Adam & Eve. I know a lot of younger thais professional in their 20-30s with good jobs who are in relationships with other farangs their age but would not step foot in Telephone or DJ because its too sleazy. After all the hard work they put in their careers, they are not about to be mistaken as just another massage boy. And they don't need your retirement funds; some of them are even richer than you.

Lets face it. Thailand as we all know it is changing rapidly. Almost all thai guys these days prefer each other or other asians. The emphasis on body beautiful clones and appearances have taken its toil judging from the ads in some of these thai-only websites. Caucasians are still popular and there will always be a few nice thais and all the money boys for the older retirees.

[jdinasia]

TC ... " Almost all thai guys these days prefer each other or other asians. "

Almost all people tend to be attracted to their own type. However, If you think this extends to "other asians" I think you are wrong. The exception being Thai ethnic chinese ... being willing to be with other ethnic chinese regardless of country of origin.

TC... ". The emphasis on body beautiful clones and appearances have taken its toil judging from the ads in some of these thai-only websites."

Am not sure what constitues a "thai-only website" but if you mean sites like Thailandout I have met some great guys from there. As for body beautiful ... don't most people want to look good and date someone that looks good?

Scott .... not sure where you are getting your statistics about "all (or most of)"... Thailand has 76 provinces and I would hazard to guess that the VAST majority of farang living here live in a very few places .... BKK/Pattaya/Phuket/Chiang Mai/ ... a far cry from rural Thailand.There are guys I am sure that have met up-country guys and then moved up-country ... but that lifestyle just wouldn't work for me or any of the people I know well.

(Buying a condo in Suk wouldn't work for me either... after a few years in BKK I am getting ready for a beach somewhere I think ;-)

Edited March 8, 2006 by jdinasia

[PeaceBlondie]

We don't know. Oh, we know about this and about that, but how many of us have spent a week at a time in more than one non-touristic province of Thailand? How many statistically valid censuses have we conducted with proper sampling techniques (oh, not THAT kind of sampling!). There could be a million excessively rich farang gay men out in the provinces, living on 3000 baht per month. There could be any number of anything, and we don't exactly know.

We see only what we see. I run in circles, including the gay and expat and farang-ajarn and motosai circles. It makes me dizzy.

And in Thailand, I have learned more about mai bpen rai than I ever knew existed. It doesn't matter. It's not important. Never mind.

Scott123, I'm not saying any of the posts here are not important; I'm just suggesting "How little we know." To answer your questions, I think the dollar and pound multimillionaires have different retirement lifestyles than me on my three year old Honda 150. Nah, I wouldn't live in Bangkok if I suddenly inherited millions of US$ dollars. Maybe at the beach, a nice multimillion baht beach condo, yeah.

Mai kojai.

[Hollywood]

I think Topchinese is right, I'm in Los Angeles, and I'm seeing more and more Asian with Asian couples but that is because there is only a few decent Rice Queens in the whole city, with most of them older. I see the younger guys trying to date Asians , but then getting tired of all the "games" then moving on to other nationalities. Just look at the numbers.

PS...I also like to enjoy a coffee at Starbucks then giving a Thai beggar outside BTK 100 baht.

[Guest endure]

I think Topchinese is right, I'm in Los Angeles, and I'm seeing more and more Asian with Asian couples but that is because there is only a few decent Rice Queens in the whole city, with most of them older. I see the younger guys trying to date Asians , but then getting tired of all the "games" then moving on to other nationalities. Just look at the numbers.

The OP was talking about farang/Thai relationships. Are you sure that the dating habits of Americans (albeit that they have Asian ancestors somewhere along the line) is a valid comparison?

[TopChinese]

The OP was talking about farang/Thai relationships. Are you sure that the dating habits of Americans (albeit that they have Asian ancestors somewhere along the line) is a valid comparison?

Depends. Hollywood appears to assert that the increased incidence of asian/asian relationship in the US is part of a global phenomenon that has adversely affected the dynamics and prevalence of farang/thai relationships in Thailand. I agree with this based on my own experience.

I've seen the same here where I am now. The idealised form of thai male beauty judging from the media seems to be a trim well built Thai with caucasian features. A lot of Thai guys are working towards that and getting more buffed up. Most professional guys in BKK are becoming more aware of keeping in good shape and working out. And they are increasingly expect their mates to be in a similar shape and taking care of themselves.

You see that change in the crowd in Babylon around that meat market pool. The emphasis is on trim muscled guys who look great in speedos. And the wonderful thing is that there is an increasing number of these Thai/Asian guys who prefer each other, even in a farang den like Babylon. I can attest to this personally.. at least twice on last Saturday and once last Sunday, much to the chargin of my GWM buddy who stood by and watched haplessly..

I also feel that most Thai guys are increasingly less interested in older white guys as they discover new avenues of meeting other Thai guys. Even the oft-lauded Thai tolerance towards men who are not in good shape or respect for the older male have eroded over time. A GWM friend in his 50s had experienced this at a dark room in a sauna frequented by thai men who prefer thai men. He was literally shoved away and fell down on his knees. Not pretty.

Of course, we have to acknowledge that we are all susceptible to stereotyping and sweeping generalisations since most of our experiences shared here in this forum are strictly anecdotal anyway.

[Guest endure]

I find it hard to believe that the habits of the clients of a gay sauna in Bangkok are any more indicative of farang/Thai relationships as a whole than are the habits of Americans half a world a way.

[Ijustwannateach]

What do you mean by "older" farang? I know a number of farang in their late twenties to late thirties living here.

What do you mean by "rich" farang? I know a number of foreigners who own condos of various qualities in various cities, and live pretty well by their own and others' standards. And what's wrong if they're not that rich? The U.S.A., for example, doesn't strike me as a country where the average level of income allows people to own property. I believe we've just past the benchmark where the majority of American citizens will NOT own their own homes before they retire.

"Steven"

[TopChinese]

I find it hard to believe that the habits of the clients of a gay sauna in Bangkok are any more indicative of farang/Thai relationships as a whole than are the habits of Americans half a world a way.

And I guess some people won't believe anything until he's shoved onto the floor amidst used condoms and casted aside like an old shoe. Oh well...

Don't take my word for it.

[Guest endure]

I find it hard to believe that the habits of the clients of a gay sauna in Bangkok are any more indicative of farang/Thai relationships as a whole than are the habits of Americans half a world a way.

And I guess some people won't believe anything until he's shoved onto the floor amidst used condoms and casted aside like an old shoe. Oh well...

No, I don't believe that casual sex in a gay sauna is anywhere near indicative of the general state of relationships between Thai and farang.

[craftwork]

No, I don't believe that casual sex in a gay sauna is anywhere near indicative of the general state of relationships between Thai and farang.

Let's hope it's not true! Once a relationship gets settled one would hope that neither partner is going on furtive sorties to the gay sauna for casual sex.

I can't think of anything more sordid, and am surprised TopChinese's gay white friend put up with such conduct.

[jdinasia]

The OP was talking about farang/Thai relationships. Are you sure that the dating habits of Americans (albeit that they have Asian ancestors somewhere along the line) is a valid comparison?

Depends. Hollywood appears to assert that the increased incidence of asian/asian relationship in the US is part of a global phenomenon that has adversely affected the dynamics and prevalence of farang/thai relationships in Thailand. I agree with this based on my own experience.

I've seen the same here where I am now. The idealised form of thai male beauty judging from the media seems to be a trim well built Thai with caucasian features. A lot of Thai guys are working towards that and getting more buffed up. Most professional guys in BKK are becoming more aware of keeping in good shape and working out. And they are increasingly expect their mates to be in a similar shape and taking care of themselves.

You see that change in the crowd in Babylon around that meat market pool. The emphasis is on trim muscled guys who look great in speedos. And the wonderful thing is that there is an increasing number of these Thai/Asian guys who prefer each other, even in a farang den like Babylon. I can attest to this personally.. at least twice on last Saturday and once last Sunday, much to the chargin of my GWM buddy who stood by and watched haplessly..

I also feel that most Thai guys are increasingly less interested in older white guys as they discover new avenues of meeting other Thai guys. Even the oft-lauded Thai tolerance towards men who are not in good shape or respect for the older male have eroded over time. A GWM friend in his 50s had experienced this at a dark room in a sauna frequented by thai men who prefer thai men. He was literally shoved away and fell down on his knees. Not pretty.

Of course, we have to acknowledge that we are all susceptible to stereotyping and sweeping generalisations since most of our experiences shared here in this forum are strictly anecdotal anyway.

I am not sure that TC's anecdotal materiel from Babylon really counts. He, not being Thai, can pretty well only remark on what it is like being "New-Meat" and a foriegner there

I think it is highly suspect to assume too much about Thai society if you don't speak the language and live in it for a considerable period of time. (As for the OP ... what happens in Cali is of no real interest to me :-)

His friend's experience at a "sauna frequented by Thai men who prefer Thai men" is unfortunate but not at all surprising. I often go to 2 different saunas like that in the afternoon to swim, have a beer. relax, and watch Karaoke and have never had anything like that happen ... but it doesn't surprise me at all! I do get cruised pretty often at those places and find it flattering, and assume like going to a barbershop ... hang out long enough and you are likely to get your hair cut. But frankly I go for a swim and a light work-out and a couple of beers then head home. Getting laid is just a way low priority ;-)

I have always held that people on average are attracted to like ... Whites date whites ... black dates blacks ... asians date asians. That's the status quo everywhere I have ever been. There are exceptions as I have noted before and I am greatful to be living in Thailand where the numbers are so far in my favor. However, at home I'd likely be doing what I did when I lived there. Dating white guys :-)

[Ijustwannateach]

OP going to respond to any of our questions?

On the "older/younger" issue, I find that my older friends still have no trouble finding partners of whatever age they're interested in (and not all of them choose young guys). However, most of their dates are ethnic Thais and not the Thai-Chinese community that largely predominates in most of Bangkok's saunas (that I know of). I think the Thai Chinese subscribe more (in general, of course, with many exceptions) to more Westernised fashions in dating.

As ever, most Thai gays have (and have always had) Thai boyfriends, and it's no surprise that they do. I find it odd that TC believes that Thais are becoming "more interested" in Thais; that's the way it always has been. It is rather odd that Thais would go to an area known to be a farang hangout to locate other Thais- and also highly inefficient. I suppose it is possible that certain Thais are after only non-Thai Asian foreigners, but I don't see the point.

I'm not all that up on my sauna etiquette, but I suppose that someone rude enough to be shoving other people probably has sufficient social problems that they do not represent any sort of normative pattern in other respects (including their tastes in men).

"Steven"

[JemJem]

but I suppose that someone rude enough to be shoving other people probably has sufficient social problems that they do not represent any sort of normative pattern in other respects (including their tastes in men).

"Steven"

Well said, Steven.

Cheers,

Jem

[ProThaiExpat]

Making generalities about saunas, as in all other things are fraught with innacuracy.

Saunas change in the "makeup", clientele and prevaling "opportunities" by the time of day and the day of the week.

I have only been to Babylon twice, the first time there was a very large group of Malayasians visiting the spa that day, up for a weekend to BKK and I was far more in demand than the last time, when it was a Saturday afternoon and the clientele were definitely far choosier.

My generalities regarding Saunas around the world are that the men who habituate them are drawn to the "classic" view of male beauty, physcally and facially, as dominates the media anywhere.

In Europe, years ago I found musculature not much in evidence, while muscles are much desired in Southern California.

I always did best, older for younger, by going during the afternoons and commute hours, when married guys, both straight and gay, were "out for a bycycle ride" while partner was at home or in commuting from a job.

My conclusion was this was the best time for me as the competition from the really "hot" young guys didn't usually show up until well after 10 pm or when the bars closed. Likewise, there were less drugs in use during those hours and more guys who "made love".

In a crowded spa, occupying a room and hanging out there will often be a "hook" while those with unattractive bodies often do better in the "dark room" Some just prefer the darkness. Thus with the variables involved, I don't think generalities about male sexuall behaviour or preferances between races can be drawn with any degree of accuracy.

My experiences tell me that the Sauna is, for many, an escape from a relationship that is not providing all the person is willing to settle for. Thus a Thai, in a relationship with a older falang may well see younger and same ethnicity males in the Sauna for sex, but in all other respects prefer older falang for the usual reasons of stability and economics. Much to complex scenarios for drawing generalities.

[PeaceBlondie]

When I met my future, past and present lover (same guy, Thai over 35) in the sauna, one thing I liked about the encounter was that, even though we were in a steam-filled room where most men were as silent as deafmutes, he asked me if I wanted a boyfriend, where I lived, if I were a tourist, etc.

There have been times in dark rooms and steam rooms when I wanted to shout, "Hey, we're gay men who enjoy having sex, and it's all right! Does anybody else here have vocal chords, or are you all ashamed to have sex with a non-spouse?"

[jdinasia]

My mother told me you could always tell a person of good breeding .... they don't talk with thier mouths full!

Edited March 12, 2006 by jdinasia

[Ijustwannateach]

[TopChinese]

JD - wanna breed?

[jdinasia]

no thanks TC ... too far to visit you after you deliver the babies

[gregchambers]

no thanks TC ... too far to visit you after you deliver the babies

lovely, but don't go into details, pls