Opposition Not Interested In Debate On Amnesty Bills

[Lite Beer]

Opposition not interested in debate on amnesty bills
The Nation on Sunday

BANGKOK: -- The Democrats have refused to join a talk on an amnesty law to be hosted by Deputy House Speaker Charoen Jankomol tomorrow, saying they would not allow an amnesty for criminal cases or help former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut said the Democrats would agree only to an amnesty for people who violated the Emergency Decree.

However, they did not trust Pheu Thai MPs and the red shirts who had submitted versions of an amnesty law, despite claims that only protesters, not leaders, would get an amnesty. The situation could end up with no one admitting to being protest leaders, to avoid facing penalties, he said.

Bhum Jai Thai Party spokesman Supachai Jaisamut said yesterday the party had just received Charoen's invitation but would have to discuss the issue before deciding whether to join in the talk and who would represent them.

Charoen had invited people from 10 groups to discuss an amnesty for those involved in political rallies in and before the turmoil in 2010. They include Pheu Thai Party, the red shirts, the Democrat Party, the PAD, people affected by the political turmoil, Nicha Hiranburana Thuwatham - wife of Colonel Romklao who was killed during the turmoil, the Truth for Reconciliation Committee of Thailand, anti-government Pitak Siam group and the military.

In a related development, Suan Dusit Poll yesterday revealed 38 per cent of respondents in Bangkok and its periphery said they are concerned that passing an amnesty bill could lead to another round of political conflict.

The poll, conducted on 1,079 people between March 6 and 8 also revealed that the second biggest group, or 32 per cent of respondents said they want an amnesty bill that would help the public interest, rather than any individual.

Some 29 per cent of respondents want to see more thorough debate on various competing amnesty bills.

Currently, eight amnesty bills have been proposed for the House of Representatives to consider.

Asked what the good aspects of the bills are, 62.5 per cent said assisting people who had not really committed wrongs, while 23 per cent said it would be a good opportunity to achieve reconciliation and end political problems. Some 14 per cent said passing an amnesty bill would enable the country to move forward.

-- The Nation 2013-03-10

[Bellweather]

An amnesty is just a typical Thai cop out by taking the line of least resistance. So protesters on both sides will be cleared until the next time they take to the streets and it all starts again. Have Thais forgotten red shirts were urged to leave the capital in flames and the one who said it in now a government minister.

[chainarong]

There is no need for this Amnesty bill, this has no place in a democracy, the full force of the law should be applied , to all party's concerned, no favours , you can burn down a city block, you can stop an international airport, riot on the streets, belt people up and then claim an amnesty, the opposition should be hammering home this statue of limitation bullsh!!t, either get rid of it or at best, stretch it out to twenty five years,

[Payboy]

Wouldn't it be easier to avoid the whole amnesty farce by pleading bipolar disorder instead?

[OzMick]

Rephrasing the OP we have

"68 per cent of respondents said they DID NOT want an amnesty bill that would help the public interest, rather than any individual.
Some 71 per cent of respondents DO NOT want to see more thorough debate on various competing amnesty bills."

[rubl]

Maybe it's my understanding of the verb 'debate'. For a moment I thought the topic was on a continuation of the debates in parliament. That would be a different kettle of fish altogether of course

[hellodolly]

Well I am for hanging the bast rds by their privates.

But that will help nothing just further deepen the rift. Their is going to have to be some give and take on this and refusing to discuss or debate it is not going to do any thing other than deepen it. From where I see it the Democrats are saying my way or the highway an attitude guaranteed to widen the gap. No harm in the debate perhaps they can find a common ground to work from. After all it is not a binding debate.

Not sure if it is a round table discussion or a debate. A debate would indicate unwillingness to give a little. A discussion where they could all air there points of view and discuss the good and bad points of them with no commitments just open options. Instead of condemning a groups whole idea they could look at each idea individually.

Put in the room by them selves with no pressure on them they might be closer to a resolution than they are willing to admit.

[Locationthailand]

Block it and forget it. Well done Dems, don't get drawn into this as it is all about one crim getting back into Thailand and nothing to do with real people.

[Buchholz]

.

This afternoon, the multi-color shirt movement similarly declined Deputy Speaker Charoen's invitation to participate in the debate of the 42 Pheu Thai Party MP's amnesty draft bill submitted by Red Shirt Leader/Pheu Thai Party MP Worachai.

The leader Dr. Tul said now was not the proper time to discuss amnesty.

He suggested that the criminal cases of those involved be expedited and that amnesty should only be considered on a case-by-case basis and then only after a verdict had been issued in each case.

The multi-colors are the second group out of the 11 invited to announce they will not participate in discussing an amnesty draft bill that is the furthest reaching of the eight different amnesty proposals.

.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Buchholz

[waza]

The stand by the democrats and the multi-colours is honourable and democratic. Let the rule of law apply to each and every one individually.

[whybother]

Well I am for hanging the bast rds by their privates.

But that will help nothing just further deepen the rift. Their is going to have to be some give and take on this and refusing to discuss or debate it is not going to do any thing other than deepen it. From where I see it the Democrats are saying my way or the highway an attitude guaranteed to widen the gap. No harm in the debate perhaps they can find a common ground to work from. After all it is not a binding debate.

Not sure if it is a round table discussion or a debate. A debate would indicate unwillingness to give a little. A discussion where they could all air there points of view and discuss the good and bad points of them with no commitments just open options. Instead of condemning a groups whole idea they could look at each idea individually.

Put in the room by them selves with no pressure on them they might be closer to a resolution than they are willing to admit.

The Democrats have said they would support amnesty for peaceful protesters charged with breaking Emergency Decree laws. They're not interested in amnesty for other criminal offences.

[waza]

Well I am for hanging the bast rds by their privates.

But that will help nothing just further deepen the rift. Their is going to have to be some give and take on this and refusing to discuss or debate it is not going to do any thing other than deepen it. From where I see it the Democrats are saying my way or the highway an attitude guaranteed to widen the gap. No harm in the debate perhaps they can find a common ground to work from. After all it is not a binding debate.

Not sure if it is a round table discussion or a debate. A debate would indicate unwillingness to give a little. A discussion where they could all air there points of view and discuss the good and bad points of them with no commitments just open options. Instead of condemning a groups whole idea they could look at each idea individually.

Put in the room by them selves with no pressure on them they might be closer to a resolution than they are willing to admit.

The Democrats have said they would support amnesty for peaceful protesters charged with breaking Emergency Decree laws. They're not interested in amnesty for other criminal offences.

guilty, bt50 fine, next.........

[Buchholz]

.

This afternoon, the multi-color shirt movement similarly declined Deputy Speaker Charoen's invitation to participate in the debate of the 42 Pheu Thai Party MP's amnesty draft bill submitted by Red Shirt Leader/Pheu Thai Party MP Worachai.

The leader Dr. Tul said now was not the proper time to discuss amnesty.

He suggested that the criminal cases of those involved be expedited and that amnesty should only be considered on a case-by-case basis and then only after a verdict had been issued in each case.

The multi-colors are the second group out of the 11 invited to announce they will not participate in discussing an amnesty draft bill that is the furthest reaching of the eight different amnesty proposals.

.

.

In addition to the Democrats and Dr. Tul's multi-color shirts turning down the invitation, three more groups of the invited 11 have now similarly declined to participate in the Red Shirt/PTP drafted amnesty proposal discussion.

The three additional groups are Ms Nicha Thuwatham (widow of Colonel Romklao and is representing the families of on-duty state officials who were killed during the Red Shirt rallies), the Pitak Siam group, and PAD.

.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

.

Of the 11 different groups invited, the only representatives that attended today's first meeting to discuss the proposed Red Shirt/PTP amnesty draft called for by Deputy House Speaker Charoen were Red Shirt Leader/PTP MP Korkaew Pikulthong representing the UDD, PTP MP's Udomdej Rattanasathien and Samart Kaewmeechai representing the Pheu Thai Party, Deputy Army Chief General Dapong Rattanawusan representing the Army, Second Deputy Defense Permanent Secretary General ML Prasobchai Kasemsant representing the Defense Ministry, and Police Colonel Seri Khairassami representing the Ratchaprasong businesses.

.

[Buchholz]

Poor response to Parliamentary amnesty move

BANGKOK, March 11 – A parliamentary attempt by the lower house to seek amnesty for those involved in Bangkok’s 2010 political upheavals was shunned by opponents who failed to show up for talks today.

Deputy House Speaker Charoen Chankomol invited 10 related groups and political parties for a discussion to find a resolution to Thailand’s political conflicts and harmonise the public throughout the nation.

The invitation was aimed at urging them to discuss a proposal for an amnesty bill despite strong opposition from several quarters of Thai society.

Representatives of four groups who showed up at parliament today were from the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD, the ‘Red Shirts’), the government’s Pheu Thai Party, the Defence Ministry and the Association of Business Operators in Ratchaprasong (the local business owners who were most affected by the weeks-long political standoff).

The Democrat Party, the Bhumjaithai Party, the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the Pitak Siam Organisation, the Multi-Coloured Shirt Group and Nicha Hiranburana Thuwatham, the widow of Col Romklao Thuwatham who was shot dead during the 2010 political crisis, rejected the invitation.

PAD spokesman Parnthep Puapongpan said his group strongly objected to amnesty for all offenders of criminal and corruption acts.

-- TNA 2013-03-11

[DLock]

Wouldn't it be easier to avoid the whole amnesty farce by pleading bipolar disorder instead?

Certainly works when you deliberately run your car into a bus stop.

[waza]

Cant do the time dont do the crime

[Buchholz]

Whips give amnesty the cold shoulder

'Red' MP Worachai threatens to use his right to move item to House agenda for urgent deliberation

Coalition whips resolved yesterday to put an amnesty bill - seen as being pushed by the red shirts - on the back burner, with the government expected to drag its feet on the matter.

Pheu Thai MP Amnuay Klungpha, chairman of the coalition coordination committee on parliamentary affairs, said the whips decided not to put the bill, sponsored by red-shirt MP Worachai Hema and 41 other Pheu Thai lawmakers, on the House agenda.

Amnuay said the whips saw that there were several bills already on the House agenda that need to be assessed. He said Worachai's bill was submitted just last week, so it wasn't put on agenda yet.

Worachai has threatened to invoke his right as an MP to ask the House to put the bill on the agenda without waiting for the House Speaker to do so and thus have it bypass other drafts for deliberation.

Amnuay said Worachai had the right but he would need up to 250 votes of support from other MPs to put his bill on the agenda and move it to the top of the list.

Pheu Thai whip Piraphan Palusuk, a legal expert, said the majority of party MPs would not back Worachai's plan to have the House urgently consider his bill.

"Although the party agrees with the bill in principle, the timing is not right to push for its deliberation now," Piraphan said.

"More time will be needed to clear all the hurdles. If the bill is pushed for deliberation now, it won't sail through and it will lead to another round of turbulence."

Meanwhile, Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont's team asked social media users on Facebook from Thursday to Sunday whether they support with the amnesty law. The response showed 2,341 backed it and 7,455 opposed it.

Political observers said the government would not dare to push for the amnesty law and risk losing its stability, especially when it is pushing ahead with a Bt2-trillion investment programme. The ruling party's defeat in the Bangkok governor election is also seen as a sign that Bangkokians oppose the move for an amnesty law.

The whips' resolution was seen by observers as the government's latest effort to stall controversial amnesty moves after government opponents vowed to fight any amnesty law being enacted.

Government opponents sent a strong message of boycott against any amnesty law by not attending yesterday's "peace talks" moderated by Deputy Speaker Charoen Jankomol.

Pheu Thai had Charoen invite representatives from 11 sides to discuss enactment of an amnesty law, in a move seen as trying to show the increasingly restless red-shirts that it was serious in pushing the matter.

The 11 sides invited were: the coalition and Pheu Thai; the Democrat Party; the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship; the People's Alliance for Democracy; Nicha Thuwatham, to represent government officials killed during political turbulence; the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand; the Pitak Siam group; business operators affected by political violence; the military; the multicoloured-shirt group; Bhum Jai Thai Party.

But only representatives of groups on the government's side attended the meeting while the rest announced a boycott and vowed to campaign both inside and outside Parliament to oppose any such move.

The Democrats, the PAD and Pitak Siam, as well as the Truth and Reconciliation Commission did not attend the two-hour, closed-door meeting. Charoen said after he would invite the Democrats and the yellow-shirt groups to attend the next meeting.

Worse still for the government, Charoen's move provided a common cause for all-red shirt groups, plus the PAD, Pitak Siam and Democrat supporters, to reunite against efforts to enact an amnesty law.

With the latest pressure from Worachai's bill, the government is seen as being in a dilemma. If they push for the law, the yellow shirts will come out to protest - and they could face violent confrontations with the red shirts. And figures from the latest Bangkok governor election showed there are more than 1 million red-shirt people or Pheu Thai supporters in Bangkok.

The confrontations would not bode well for the government. Any violence could cause it to be ousted so top leaders want to avoid such a situation.

Charoen also appeared to lack determination to push for a solution. After the meeting, he told reporters he would invite Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva to a discussion with coalition whips on the opposition leader's call for four "reconciliation" bills submitted to the House in the last parliamentary session to be withdrawn.

Charoen admitted there would be several more meetings to discuss reconciliation measures as those who attended yesterday agreed all sides should have a chance to air their opinions at future meetings.

He said the meeting supported the principle of forgiving and remorse but all sides must ponder how to enact measures in detail.

The deputy speaker said he expected to be able to hold talks with the PAD, although PAD spokesman Parnthep Pourpongpan said earlier the group would boycott the amnesty process.

Observers said it was expected the government would buy time by having the Council of State study three amnesty law drafts submitted earlier. This would show the red shirts the government had not abandoned them, and would buy the coalition more time.

-- The Nation 2013-03-12

[Buchholz]

.
Fugitive ex-PM Thaksin has taken to Skype again to order the Pheu Thai Party to continue to push for the amnesty bill.

Yesterday, he contacted the Pheu Thai Party's Coordinating Committee and told them there has been too many concessions made to the military and the elite on the issue and that this has caused division with their Red Shirt supporters.

Because of that, he ordered them to push harder for passage of the amnesty bill so as to not lose their backing and show them that PTP has not forsaken them.

His order came with the caveat to the PTP to be careful not to push in such a manner that the amnesty bill is focused on absolving him of his crimes, saying, "Don't be worried about whether I can return home. If our MPs want to push for amnesty, just do it. What I want to know is how united we are."

.

[Buchholz]

Poor response to Parliamentary amnesty move

Nicha Hiranburana Thuwatham, the widow of Col Romklao Thuwatham who was shot dead during the 2010 political crisis, rejected the invitation.

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The widow Nicha Hirunburana Thuwatham sent a written letter to the Red Shirt/PTP sponsored draft proposal.

She is against any amnesty for those that committed criminal offenses.

,