Jingthing Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) As I've said already, the islands are NOT a sovereign country. Independence movements/separatist movements all over the world ... each CASE is totally different. Edited March 13, 2013 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chicog Posted March 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2013 Nothing to argue about here. The Falkland Islanders wish to remain British. Britain wants them to remain British. Argentina have no claim over the islands, and no rule over their people. It's not even worth pursuing, and to be honest Jingthing you can repeat yourself until you are blue in the face, but all you are doing is repeating the same empty mantras that Kirchner does. It is Argentina that has remained intransigent on this issue; they seem to think the lawful citizens of the Falkland Islands should have no say in their own future. Quite nonsensical really. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 7by7 Posted March 13, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2013 As I've said already, the islands are NOT a sovereign country. Independence movements/separatist movements all over the world ... each CASE is totally different. Neither is Scotland; so would you support Scottish independence if the Scottish people voted for it, even though the rest of the UK didn't want it? The Falkland islanders are neither an independence nor a separatist movement. They are citizens of a British overseas territory who have democratically expressed the desire to remain so. Why can you not accept that their wishes are the most important factor in this whole debate? You wont answer, of course; you never do because you can't without making yourself look foolish. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 As I've said already, the islands are NOT a sovereign country. Independence movements/separatist movements all over the world ... each CASE is totally different. Neither is Scotland; so would you support Scottish independence if the Scottish people voted for it, even though the rest of the UK didn't want it? The Falkland islanders are neither an independence nor a separatist movement. They are citizens of a British overseas territory who have democratically expressed the desire to remain so. Why can you not accept that their wishes are the most important factor in this whole debate? You wont answer, of course; you never do because you can't without making yourself look foolish. For some it's about air miles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Each case is separate with different historical facts to consider. Exactly! That's why it is imperative that Argentina will be handed back to the indigenous inhabitants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Each case is separate with different historical facts to consider. Exactly! That's why it is imperative that Argentina will be handed back to the indigenous inhabitants. Spain is in a hell of a mess so don't know where they can go. Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, UK no problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Each case is separate with different historical facts to consider. Exactly! That's why it is imperative that Argentina will be handed back to the indigenous inhabitants. Falklands for penguins, yes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 As I've said already, the islands are NOT a sovereign country. Independence movements/separatist movements all over the world ... each CASE is totally different. And supposing the Falkland Islanders applied to the U.N. to be recognized as a sovereign nation? Would you oppose that? They are afterall the only indigenous people living there, the Islands are outside the 200 nautical mile limit which precludes any other nation staking a claim based on the proximity of their coast. Of course if any tribe of American Indians were to stake a claim on the lands taken from them they would have just as good a case, not withstanding realpolitik of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 JT, where are you from ? I mean really from. Forget USA, I mean really from. Are you originally from Argentina. ? Just want to clear things in my ol' gray cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 ... lots of brave men lost their lives there, RIP those who served and sacrificed. ... Lots of brave Argies lost their lives as well, sadly in the name of a dictator, but Maggie Thatcher was no prize either. Didn't Maggie use that conflict to boost her failing political brand? Love her or hate her, Thatcher was the leader of a democraticaly elected government. But you don't believe in democracy, apparantly. If Galtieri and his junta had not decided to invade then there would have been no British response and brave men on both sides would still be alive today. Sorry to say,even further back,some argued: if Thatcher hadn't closed down our Weather Station and withdrew our Survey Vessel,in the Falklands. In order to save 500,000 a year.Which may have signalled to the Argentinian Government,that Britain was no longer interested in the Falklands.At the time Thatchers popularity was at a all time low,and Polls predicted she was highly likely to be out of office,at the next Election. With the Falklands Victory,she went on to win two more General Elections. Hardly coincidence IMO. Nevertheless,most Brits were glad that Thatcher gave the order to retrieve the Falklands (myself included) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsailor35 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It's only a matter of time. Look at a map. And if they invade again so will we kick their ass again its been British for 180+ years almost as long as America has been America We might have a problem there, if the argies did invade again we wont have aircover, without aircover we would get hammered. Too many fighting men are involved in wars we cant win, that idiot in number 10 has practically neutered the military and i think we would seriously struggle to retake the islands now. Absolutely no offense to the military but their ability to do anything is now very limited. Quite right. Have a read at Vulcan 603, a blow by blow of how "the" Vulcan got to Stanley and managed to bomb the airfield. It was pure luck, nothing else and it could not be done again. The book is a super read and when I read it I really couldn't put it down. "Pure Luck and nothing else"............ rubbish ! That operation was meticulously planned and carried out. There is a video on the whole operation in YouTube. It was the longest range bombing attack in the history of long range bombing. They got there and did the job by pure guts and cool bravery and planning, "Nothing else" Perhaps no one else could do it again, but with their backs to the wall, i would'nt mind betting , the Bits could ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It was a typically British shambles - and no we couldn't do it again. We have no Vulcans or Victors left. We also have no merchant fleet left to commandeer. "This gripping film tells the humorous yet heroic story of how a crumbling, Cold-War era Vulcan flew the then longest range bombing mission in history and how a WW2 vintage bomb changed the outcome of the Falklands War. On 30th April 1982, the RAF launched a secret mission; to bomb Port Stanley's runway, putting it out of action for Argentine fighter jets. The safety of the British Task Force depended on its success. But the RAF could only get a single Vulcan 8,000 miles south to the Falklands as just one bomber needed an aerial fleet of thirteen Victor tanker planes to refuel it throughout the 16 hour round-trip. From start to finish, the seemingly impossible mission was a comedy of errors, held together by sheer British pluck and ingenuity. On the brink of being scrapped, only three of the ageing nuclear bombers could be fitted out for war, one to fly the mission and two in reserve..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTDYcuoOKkM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokie36 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) It was a typically British shambles - and no we couldn't do it again. We have no Vulcans or Victors left. We also have no merchant fleet left to commandeer. "This gripping film tells the humorous yet heroic story of how a crumbling, Cold-War era Vulcan flew the then longest range bombing mission in history and how a WW2 vintage bomb changed the outcome of the Falklands War. On 30th April 1982, the RAF launched a secret mission; to bomb Port Stanley's runway, putting it out of action for Argentine fighter jets. The safety of the British Task Force depended on its success. But the RAF could only get a single Vulcan 8,000 miles south to the Falklands as just one bomber needed an aerial fleet of thirteen Victor tanker planes to refuel it throughout the 16 hour round-trip. From start to finish, the seemingly impossible mission was a comedy of errors, held together by sheer British pluck and ingenuity. On the brink of being scrapped, only three of the ageing nuclear bombers could be fitted out for war, one to fly the mission and two in reserve..." That is an amazing story. Heroes those guys were...all of them. Edited March 14, 2013 by Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwanatickey Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 So You meet a fellow Brit abroad,and he says he is ex services,no need to ask him what unit,You know the answer,He is,ex Royal Marine. Then he will add"The best" Well it is best not to point out that every combatant everwhere is brainwashed that he is the best. Otherwise they would not fight. Reading these comments on the Falklands is like that,a conversation that is going nowhere. Each one has his own blinkered view,and a view outside their own box does not count. Oh dare I say,I'm ex Royal Marine.(When abroad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALFREDO Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 After the Argentinians get now the Vatican for some time, threw the new Pope, they will let go, at least in the moment from the Falklands!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) There are TWO sides here, and the other (minority view here but that doesn't mean it is wrong) side deserves some play as well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17045169 President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has repeatedly requested talks on the islands' future and accused the UK of "arrogance" for refusing to negotiate. "In the 21st Century [britain] continues to be a crude colonial power in decline." Does she not have some problems to solve inside Argentina, which would be more important? Lucky country, when say have nothing else to complain about! Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports, and that's about it for me.without Googling,how many other notable points can others add? Edited March 13, 2013 by MAJIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) ... lots of brave men lost their lives there, RIP those who served and sacrificed. ... Lots of brave Argies lost their lives as well, sadly in the name of a dictator, but Maggie Thatcher was no prize either. Didn't Maggie use that conflict to boost her failing political brand? That is most probably the truth, (she went on to win two more elections) who was it that said: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"? But BY FAR the vast majority of the British people were in favour of our Armed forces retrieving the Falklands and rescuing the Falklanders from an occupation force. NB In the end even her own Party,couldn't stand her Dictatorial style of Government,and kicked her out,in a re enactment of Roman style, Et tu Brutus! Edited March 13, 2013 by MAJIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 There are TWO sides here, and the other (minority view here but that doesn't mean it is wrong) side deserves some play as well: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17045169 President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has repeatedly requested talks on the islands' future and accused the UK of "arrogance" for refusing to negotiate. "In the 21st Century [britain] continues to be a crude colonial power in decline." Does she not have some problems to solve inside Argentina, which would be more important? Lucky country, when say have nothing else to complain about! Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports, and that's about it for me.without Googling,how many other notable points can others add? The dogo argentino (banned as a dangerous dog in the UK) and, of course, the tango! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Fair enough the Tango,even though it applies to many Spanish speaking Countries,but I think a stewards enquiry is necessary on the Dogo Argentino? Edited March 13, 2013 by MAJIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossfinn Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Lucky country, when say have nothing else to complain about! Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports, and that's about it for me.without Googling,how many other notable points can others add? As opposed to the UK conjuring up Ireland, Israel, Kenya, India, Syria ( I wonder how many can grasp the irony ) thatcher, Joey Barton, Mad Cow et al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossfinn Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 May the Holy Father now bring a negotiated settlement to what can only be in this situation, self determination of the population of the Overseas Territories of the Falklands and their dependencies, without further future violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macksview Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Fair enough the Tango,even though it applies to many Spanish speaking Countries,but I think a stewards enquiry is necessary on the Dogo Argentino? seeing the old boy do that tango, he has shown the secret how to pull young ladies, not of course the way for some,their method is walking down beach road holding 3000 baht above their head. dogo argentino, i cant wait for the defenders of that breed to come and talk about it being a lovely pet and great with children. falklands war had lots mistakes, bits of luck but above all lots of motivated men doing their job for their country. the ss canberra, the same ship that bought a little pommie family to australia, used for a noble purpose at that time of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Lucky country, when say have nothing else to complain about! Argentina cunjures up visions of the Falklands,Dictator Galtieri,Good Footballers,Tinned Beef exports, and that's about it for me.without Googling,how many other notable points can others add? As opposed to the UK conjuring up Ireland, Israel, Kenya, India, Syria ( I wonder how many can grasp the irony ) thatcher, Joey Barton, Mad Cow et al Well you may be half right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 May the Holy Father now bring a negotiated settlement to what can only be in this situation, self determination of the population of the Overseas Territories of the Falklands and their dependencies, without further future violence. I agree with you entirely: "without further future violence" The only way this can be achieved is to respect the Falklanders choice,of where their allegiencies and future lies.There is no other answer,the Argentinians,invaded the Falklands for their own ends,the falklands people rejected them,hence the major Referendum vote in favour of them never returning,and destroying their way of life,for an inferior lifestyle,which is all Argentina has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macksview Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 an argentinian pope, well the falklands will be up against it now, not just a few argies making claims, a papal bull, give it to us, you naughty dissenters.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamhar Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I have no dog in this fight. I'm just trying to learn what the Argentine camp's claims are for the Islands. I've heard what the British side has said what the Argentine's claims are. I want to hear the Argentina sides claims. I read the following in the comments to a news article. Any rebuttal from the Argentine side on TV? "When Argentina signed the Convention of Settlement in 1850, which settled all differences that existed between our countries, They acknowledging there was no territorial dispute between our countries.President Sarimento, also stated in his Message to the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1869 'The state of our foreign relations fulfils the aspirations of the country. NOTHING is claimed from us by other nations; we have nothing to ask of them except that they will persevere in manifesting their sympathies, with which both Governments and peoples have honoured the Republic, both for its progress and its spirit of fairness' " Originating News Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Argentina can't have a Pope and the Faulklands as well. That is just plain greedy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dundee48 Posted March 14, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2013 May the Holy Father now bring a negotiated settlement to what can only be in this situation, self determination of the population of the Overseas Territories of the Falklands and their dependencies, without further future violence. I think he should get his own house in order first. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundee48 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I have no dog in this fight. I'm just trying to learn what the Argentine camp's claims are for the Islands. I've heard what the British side has said what the Argentine's claims are. I want to hear the Argentina sides claims. I read the following in the comments to a news article. Any rebuttal from the Argentine side on TV? "When Argentina signed the Convention of Settlement in 1850, which settled all differences that existed between our countries, They acknowledging there was no territorial dispute between our countries. President Sarimento, also stated in his Message to the Argentine Congress on 1 May 1869 'The state of our foreign relations fulfils the aspirations of the country. NOTHING is claimed from us by other nations; we have nothing to ask of them except that they will persevere in manifesting their sympathies, with which both Governments and peoples have honoured the Republic, both for its progress and its spirit of fairness' " Originating News Article Try not to let facts get in the way of anti-British propoganda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Again: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17045169 Both sides have some good arguments, he says, and if it ever went to court, it is far from clear who would win. "International law does not overwhelmingly favour either Argentina or the UK Thus, in such a scenario NEGOTIATION is the most civilized and FAIR solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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