Thai Railways Set Eyes On Dual Track System

[webfact]

Thai railways set eyes on dual track system
By Digital Media



BANGKOK, March 15 – A seven-year scheme for a dual track rail system, to be developed by the State Railway of Thailand (SRT), will change the face of the nation, a senior official said today.

SRT Governor Prapas Chongsa-nguan said the government is issuing a bill to seek Bt2 trillion in loans for the project to connect Thailand from Chiang Khong district of northernmost Chiang Rai province to the southernmost town of Padang Besar, and the northeastern province of Nong Khai with neighbouring Lao PDR.

The dual track rail links will connect Thailand with southern China and the wider Southeast Asian region, he said.

Of the 4,000km rail lines in Thailand, only 300km are currently dual track, and the SRT will have to build additional 2,857km of dual track to cover 53 provinces, he said.

With the dual-track system in full operation in the next seven years, the SRT will be capable of transporting goods at 50 million tonnes/year and service 75 million passengers/year, he said.

Mr Prapas said the present single track system compels cargo trains to run at an average 30km/hour as they have to switch tracks along the way.

The dual track system will increase their speed to 90km/hour and industrialists will possibly switch to train service which cuts their logistics costs, he said.

Thailand’s present logistics cost is 15.2 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) while the government has set a target to reduce it by at least 2 per cent in the next seven year. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-03-15

[Carib]

Dual track?? Ooh my Buddha, we need a bigger market

[NeverSure]

"SRT Governor Prapas Chongsa-nguan said the government is issuing a bill to seek Bt2 trillion in loans for the project..."

Judas Priest. This is the same "stimulus" borrowed spending that failed in the US and failed in China.

Simple question: If borrowing and spending stimulates, what happens when spending has to stop so that it can be paid back?

Thailand can't pay it back. I hope they can't find lenders, but they probably will. Even Greece finds lenders. Then Thailand will have to keep printing baht to pay it back and the baht will take a serious dump.

[OzMick]

At least this proposal makes some economic sense. An upgrade of the rolling stock is well past due as also.

[Soi Sauce]

Welcome to the 19th century!

[hellodolly]

"SRT Governor Prapas Chongsa-nguan said the government is issuing a bill to seek Bt2 trillion in loans for the project..."

Judas Priest. This is the same "stimulus" borrowed spending that failed in the US and failed in China.

Simple question: If borrowing and spending stimulates, what happens when spending has to stop so that it can be paid back?

Thailand can't pay it back. I hope they can't find lenders, but they probably will. Even Greece finds lenders. Then Thailand will have to keep printing baht to pay it back and the baht will take a serious dump.

I would not call it a stimulus project more like a upgrade to the 21st century project. I hope they build the rails to accommodate the bullet type trains capable of high speeds.

This is a project that is long long long overdue.

[gosompoi]

The big ignored problem in this plan is not too addressing the current limitations of using the now narrow gauge track system. Thai past plans talked of upgrading to world standard gauge tracks.

Edited March 15, 2013 by gosompoi

[Radar501]

As a regular train traveller on the Southern route, where much of the tracks between stations are single, the introduction of a dual track system would be a Buddha-send.

So often, a trip can be hours late because a train has to wait at a station until the one coming in the opposite direction pulls up alongside. If one train is delayed for wotever reason, it throws out the network schedule, and the delays just continue to compound.

Level-crossing my fingers this project becomes a reality.

[1weatherman]

7 years? Is that in Thai years or the rest of the world years? Better to start to work on it today.

[Locationthailand]

Let's hope they have some air con in the carriages other than having the window down...

[Carib]

The big ignored problem in this plan is not too addressing the current limitations of using the now narrow gauge track system. Thai past plans talked of upgrading to world standard gauge tracks.

Not much point in doing that I think since all neighbor's have the same standard meter tracks.

[gosompoi]

The big ignored problem in this plan is not too addressing the current limitations of using the now narrow gauge track system. Thai past plans talked of upgrading to world standard gauge tracks.

Not much point in doing that I think since all neighbor's have the same standard meter tracks.

The point is freight, being the worlds largest rice producer and a giant automotive producer but all freight must be moved by truck on public highways. But this point is always missed for developing the Thai economy in infrastructure plans. AND I am not surprised.

[Carib]

The big ignored problem in this plan is not too addressing the current limitations of using the now narrow gauge track system. Thai past plans talked of upgrading to world standard gauge tracks.

Not much point in doing that I think since all neighbor's have the same standard meter tracks.

The point is freight, being the worlds largest rice producer and a giant automotive producer but all freight must be moved by truck on public highways. But this point is always missed for developing the Thai economy in infrastructure plans. AND I am not surprised.

That did not cross my mind, still I did see a lot of freight trains.

[NeverSure]

"SRT Governor Prapas Chongsa-nguan said the government is issuing a bill to seek Bt2 trillion in loans for the project..."

Judas Priest. This is the same "stimulus" borrowed spending that failed in the US and failed in China.

Simple question: If borrowing and spending stimulates, what happens when spending has to stop so that it can be paid back?

Thailand can't pay it back. I hope they can't find lenders, but they probably will. Even Greece finds lenders. Then Thailand will have to keep printing baht to pay it back and the baht will take a serious dump.

I would not call it a stimulus project more like a upgrade to the 21st century project. I hope they build the rails to accommodate the bullet type trains capable of high speeds.

This is a project that is long long long overdue.

If Thailand had the money. It is already going into debt way too fast.

It would also be nice if you had a new Ferrari.

If Thailand could borrow that money and actually spend it as promised, instead of losing much of it to graft and unaccounted-for expenses.

If it would pay for itself in user charges, and retire the debt from those fees.

Thailand's national debt is skyrocketing. The current powers have no concept of anything but spend money.

"SRT Governor Prapas Chongsa-nguan said the government is issuing a bill to seek Bt2 trillion in loans for the project..." - from OP

Edited March 15, 2013 by NeverSure

[Genericnic]

So, will double tracks mean the trains will arrive half as late or twice as late as they do now?

David

[GruF]

Being a Australian train driver for over 25 years, and eyeballing a little of the Thai country rail system they need a lot more than the BT2trilion to bring it up to world standards, if building double lines they have to go bidirectional (speeds up rail movments), and build them all over the country, also a high tech train control, they need large frieght yards close to sea ports, small yards at the producers end, they also need a lot more rolling stock (engines and wagons), this is just a start.

I won't use the rail in Thailand yet.

Edited March 15, 2013 by GruF

[Cats4ever]

Unlike some of the earlier correspondents, I am not a master of economics. Thai Rail 40 years ago was a very good quality transport option. 40 years of neglect have seen to that. If it makes sense, spend the money if it will benefit the country over a sustained period of time. Many countries were perpetually indebted as they developed. The USA was a debtor nation until about 1916 and resumed that status during the presidency of the sainted Ronald Reagan. Oz is a debtor country also, because there is insufficient capital to do all the developing. Spend all money wisely with a return in mind.

[NeverSure]

Unlike some of the earlier correspondents, I am not a master of economics. Thai Rail 40 years ago was a very good quality transport option. 40 years of neglect have seen to that. If it makes sense, spend the money if it will benefit the country over a sustained period of time. Many countries were perpetually indebted as they developed. The USA was a debtor nation until about 1916 and resumed that status during the presidency of the sainted Ronald Reagan. Oz is a debtor country also, because there is insufficient capital to do all the developing. Spend all money wisely with a return in mind.

But, but, but...

How do you get a return in Thailand with all the graft and corruption, and with everyone wanting to ride cross-country for 20 baht?

[muttley]

Not much point in doing that I think since all neighbor's have the same standard meter tracks.

The point is freight, being the worlds largest rice producer and a giant automotive producer but all freight must be moved by truck on public highways. But this point is always missed for developing the Thai economy in infrastructure plans. AND I am not surprised.

That did not cross my mind, still I did see a lot of freight trains.

Well it appears that they didn't miss the point of freight, as according to the OP;

With the dual-track system in full operation in the next seven years, the SRT will be capable of transporting goods at 50 million tonnes/year and service 75 million passengers/year, he said

[NeverSure]

Does anyone really believe that if Thailand borrows 2 trillion baht to upgrade trains that all of that money will be wisely spent for the purpose?

What happened to all that flood prevention money?

[JetsetBkk]

Thailand doesn't even have a railway service to the number one tourist island in the country - Phuket. So millions of tourists are held hostage by the air and bus companies. The SRT should sort that out first.

[Bagwan]

Welcome to the 19th century!

On the 9th of May 1904 the Ocean Mails Special from Plymouth to London reached a speed of 102.3 miles per hour. (164.6 kph). The locomotive was preserved and as far as I know sill hauling trains carrying steam enthusiasts.

To avoid costly and time consuming tunneling I assume that the carriages will have tilt capability to negotiate curves at high speeds. This was yet another UK invention but was scrapped after political hand wringing and a NIMBY attitude by British Rail engineers who had been bypassed when the design job was given to two independent engineers. Many countries took up the concept, further developed it, and now use tilting trains of their own design.

Tilting trains should appeal to many Thais road users who 'go round the bend' at the thought of slowing when changing direction even when they cannot see if the way ahead is clear on entering curves and/or bends in the road.

[JLCrab]

At least this proposal makes some economic sense. An upgrade of the rolling stock is well past due as also.

As a regular rider of 3rd class trains on the NE sector line, I would prefer to call the trains bouncing stock. When people complain about the timeliness of their posted schedule I respond:

They got you there today. Did you not get your 25 baht's worth?

Edited March 15, 2013 by JLCrab

[Robby nz]

But hang on isn't the 2 trillion supposed to be to develop a high speed rail system with the first bit going to Pattaya then North and South, and weren't we told that Chinese engineers had already surveyed the route?

Is this a different 2 trillion or is there going to be some going to one and some to the other.

I would agree that double tracking what is already there and putting tunnels under road crossings would be a sensible thing that should get some of the trucks off the road.

[NanLaew]

Thailand doesn't even have a railway service to the number one tourist island in the country - Phuket. So millions of tourists are held hostage by the air and bus companies. The SRT should sort that out first.

Great idea. Then do the same to the next most popular destination... Samui!!!

[A Member]

At least this proposal makes some economic sense. An upgrade of the rolling stock is well past due as also.

They are paying the price for not upgrading on a regular basis as the system evolved. Unfortunately as Thai Rail eyes dual track all the politicians, civil servants and contractors will be eyeing all that lovely, lovely corruption so the final bill will be anyone's guess if the plans are ever completed

[Lakegeneve]

This is a complete govt agency puff piece of old news to give the SRT Gov a few lines and some traction (pun intended). Like many of these types of regurgitated news the facts and context are not even presented correctly.

Firstly, the 2.2 trillion baht loan that the govt has budgeted is for a range of transport and logistic projects. Thankfully, for once most of it is for rail. The double tracking project is somewhat small in the whole budget being under 200 billion by my understanding;

"Of the total budget of Bt2.2 trillion, 64 per cent will fund 31 rail-related projects, 24 per cent will go to 13 road projects, 7 per cent to seven water-transport projects, and 4.75 per cent to four air-transport projects."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Thailands-location-drives-transport-investment-pla-30197376.html

Secondly, the double tracking project has been around for over last decade. It is not a new program. The Dems when they were in power allocated a significant budget to both speed up the implementation and expand the program.

I posted a map of the program on another TV thread last July 2012, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/556919-bangkok-chiang-mai-high-speed-rail-ready-by-2018-transport-ministry/page-10#entry6050255

For those that can read thai the next Phases of the program are detailed in this article, http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/home/detail/business/business/20130305/493255/%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%9F%E0%B8%97.%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%81.%E0%B8%A2.%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%B9%E0%B9%886%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%AA%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%878%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B7%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A5..html

Translated as:

(Note Phases on the above map and the below translation will not exactly match due to recent adjustments)

Phase One:
1. Chachoengsao - Klong 19 - Kaeng Khoi (106 km) at 11.348 billion Baht
2. Map Krabao - Thanon Jira (132 km) at 19.017 billion Baht
3. Nakhon Pathom - Nong Pladuk - Hua Hin (165 km) at 17.856 billion Baht
4. Lopburi - Nakhon Sawan (118 km) at 10.938 billion Baht
5. Thanon Jira - Khon Kaen (185 km) at 17.046 billion Baht
6. Prachuab Khirikhan - Chumprn (167 km) at 10.312 billion Baht
total 873 km at 86.517 billion Baht

Phase Two: from 2015-2020 - 6 routes 1025 km 78.128 billion Baht
1. Kaeng Khoi - Lum Narai - Bua Yai 220 km 18.075 billion Baht
2. Nakhon Sawan - Taphan Hin 69 km 6.259 billion Baht
3. Hua Hin - Prachuab Khirikhan - 89 km 5.499 billion baht
4. Chumporn - Surat Tahni - 166 km 17 billion Baht
5. Thanon Chira - Ubon - 309 km 23.174 billion Baht
6. Khon Kaen - Nong Khai 172 km 14.877 billion Baht

(Note: translation courtesy of Khun wisarut at http://2bangkok.com/forum/showthread.php?611-Double-Tracking-Project&p=35715#post35715)

In thailand old news is often regurgitated many times as new news. Reading the gaps in facts between the lines makes that obvious as does a simple google search.

[asiamaster]

Suppose Thailand will have to wait for the Chinese to build it -like the Japanese built the Burma railway....

[newermonkey]

LISTEN up Thai railways.....

THE TRACKS ARE TOO NARROW AND TOO UNEAVEN FOR HIGH SPEED.

Adding one more track to the existing one will RESAULT IN DOUBLING THE ACIDENTS

Edited March 15, 2013 by metisdead

[OzMick]

The big ignored problem in this plan is not too addressing the current limitations of using the now narrow gauge track system. Thai past plans talked of upgrading to world standard gauge tracks.

Gauge change is a hugely expensive and disruptive operation. Tilt train services (as operated in Queensland) run at 160km/h on metre gauge rails without the necessity of gauge change.