would be nice if they decriminalized soft drugs but I think FAT CHANCE unless China did it and I seriously doubt that.

China definitely does not want people smoking the devils cabbage and thinking outside the box and asking questions.

For that matter I don't think China even wants its citizens to know there is a box.

What would happen if Chinese had a 60's awakening? I think it might be chaos for the PRC.

Edited March 28, 201313 yr by CobraSnakeNecktie

I doubt if many with any real power here would even consider it (decriminalizing drugs) a good idea, and even if it happened it would be a very very hard sell with the voters.

That's a key point. Peoples' perceptions. Trillion dollar ad campaigns plus lobbying of politicians, has firmly established alcohol as the only legal recreational drug. Extremely successful, in terms of revenue streams, and in brainwashing the masses. They continue to romanticize alcohol in movies, never mentioning that alcohol-fueled date rapes are endemic nearly everywhere. How much do tens of millions of abandoned (by the men who inseminated their mothers) children cost society?

would be nice if they decriminalized soft drugs but I think FAT CHANCE unless China did it and I seriously doubt that.

China definitely does not want people smoking the devils cabbage and thinking outside the box and asking questions.

For that matter I don't think China even wants its citizens to know there is a box.

What would happen if Chinese had a 60's awakening? I think it might be chaos for the PRC.

a '60's awakenng' ....like the dawning of the Age of Aquarius? Flower Power / Haight Ashbury or the 'back to the land / organic gardening / hippie movement' of the US in the 60's - that would be fantastic for China! .....and for Thailand. Granted, the flower power movement wasn't all good all-around, but the overall trends it brought along were mostly for good. .....and the music, yea. There were hints of that (free thinking, speaking freely) at the Tianemen protest. A nationwide groundswell of that sort of free spirit would indeed be scary for the self-appointed old men who comprise the Beijing politburo.

Edited March 29, 201313 yr by maidu

a '60's awakenng' ....like the dawning of the Age of Aquarius? Flower Power / Haight Ashbury or the 'back to the land / organic gardening / hippie movement' of the US in the 60's - that would be fantastic for China! .....and for Thailand. Granted, the flower power movement wasn't all good all-around, but the overall trends it brought along were mostly for good. .....and the music, yea. There were hints of that (free thinking, speaking freely) at the Tianemen protest. A nationwide groundswell of that sort of free spirit would indeed be scary for the self-appointed old men who comprise the Beijing politburo.

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Free thought and speech, questioning mainstream ideas, willingness to rebel against authority and explore new models for organising society - yes and good when mixed with (un-) common sense, stupid when unthinkingly knee-jerk reactionary, just teenage lets-piss-off-the-parents syndrome.

Environmental consciousness, sexual/racial equality and freedom, anti-consumerism, even anti-materialism - good but not part of any current trend this side of the world that I can see, other than the wealthy elite trying to keep expectations of the poor down to realistic levels.

Seeking spiritual enlightenment through the use of drugs - idiotically damaging to millions of individuals and society, for which we're still paying the price.

Music and other aspects of pop culture - enjoyable but probably the most significant actual result, and that's a damn shame IMO.

I think you need to be more clear in the objectives of this polemic - whether it is to seek greater constraints on the use of alcohol, or to liberalise the use of other drugs.

The fact that alcohol may be a bad thing is no reason to legalise other substances, unless you could make a clear causal link that people would switch from alcohol to other drugs, given the opportunity. I think more likely they would just increase their overall intake, combining other drugs with their excessive alcohol.

SC.

a '60's awakenng' ....like the dawning of the Age of Aquarius? Flower Power / Haight Ashbury or the 'back to the land / organic gardening / hippie movement' of the US in the 60's - that would be fantastic for China! .....and for Thailand. Granted, the flower power movement wasn't all good all-around, but the overall trends it brought along were mostly for good. .....and the music, yea. There were hints of that (free thinking, speaking freely) at the Tianemen protest. A nationwide groundswell of that sort of free spirit would indeed be scary for the self-appointed old men who comprise the Beijing politburo.

-

Free thought and speech, questioning mainstream ideas, willingness to rebel against authority and explore new models for organising society - yes and good when mixed with (un-) common sense, stupid when unthinkingly knee-jerk reactionary, just teenage lets-piss-off-the-parents syndrome.

Environmental consciousness, sexual/racial equality and freedom, anti-consumerism, even anti-materialism - good but not part of any current trend this side of the world that I can see, other than the wealthy elite trying to keep expectations of the poor down to realistic levels.

Seeking spiritual enlightenment through the use of drugs - idiotically damaging to millions of individuals and society, for which we're still paying the price.

Music and other aspects of pop culture - enjoyable but probably the most significant actual result, and that's a damn shame IMO.

I'm not sure I would necessarily associate any of those as a consequence of relaxing drug legislation, though.

I'm not sure I would necessarily associate any of those as a consequence of relaxing drug legislation, though.

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Not at all, following the flow of the thread, IMO pointless otherwise.

However I believe most of the negative social consequences of drugs has come from their prohibition. Laws should be based on scientific evidence and rational principles rather than cultural traditions and prejudices rooted in medieval religious brainwashing.

Exact same issue with sexual "crimes", address the negative side effects and work to make it safe rather than driving it underground and criminalizing behavior between consenting adults.

Most of these issues are ones of power - the state and the ruling elite that runs it seeking to maintain their control over the common people, rather than their actually trying to look out for the public interest.

The fact that the common use of alternative drugs arose from the same social movements that were defying authority and demanding radical changes is what led to their prohibition, they were perceived as a fundamental threat to the status quo. The claims of negative health consequences were a minor side issue, the cover story.

The abuse of drugs other than alcohol would be much more effectively (and cheaply) treated as a medical problem rather than a "crime".

"Seeking spiritual enlightenment through the use of drugs - idiotically damaging to millions of individuals and society, for which we're still paying the price."

For some experimenters, it worked rather well. For others, perhaps not. Either way, the biggest drug problem (probably bigger tha alcohol abuse) is pharma drugs. Not only are more deaths caused by pharma drugs than all illegal drugs combined, but the consortium of Big Pharma + Doctors + and regulatory agencies, are turning large numbers of people including little kids, into self-hating, drug-taking screw-ups. Lots of money being made by Big Pharma and Doctors, so it's fine for them.

I think you need to be more clear in the objectives of this polemic - whether it is to seek greater constraints on the use of alcohol, or to liberalise the use of other drugs.

The fact that alcohol may be a bad thing is no reason to legalise other substances, unless you could make a clear causal link that people would switch from alcohol to other drugs, given the opportunity. I think more likely they would just increase their overall intake, combining other drugs with their excessive alcohol. SC.

There are always going to be people who want to take recreational drugs. Criminalizing all recreational drugs except alcohol does several things: It bolsters and emboldens the alcohol industries, it enables illegal drug kingpins to prosper, quality of illegal drugs goes down, no taxes are generated, the law enforcement and incarceration businesses are over-burdened, ....the list goes on. Legalizing recreational drugs doesn't stop drug usage or abuse (nothing will) but it is a step towards lessening the insanity and harm caused, of trying to criminalize all rec. drugs other than alcohol. With legalization, several things happen:

>>>> drug kingpins go out of business

>>>> drugs becomes less lethal, less needles shared.

>>>> taxes can possibly be garnered

>>>> Trillion dollars saved on ineffectual law enforcement

>>>> Trillion dollars saved by less incarceration

>>>> druggies can get counseling instead of thrown in prison.

Stop generalising about "the Thais".

Some Thais may drink a lot, some don't.

In my three years living with my Thai family i have seen one Thai man (married to my wife's daughter if that means anything), drink one large beer.

That was in November 2011, and his father's house out near Don Mueng had just been flooded and he had learned there was about 35,000 Baht damages to the house. His parents are both in their 70's and that property was all they owned, so I can see the reason he felt like drinking that day.

Point is: SOME Thais may drink heavily, SOME don't.

Some Farangs may drink heavily, some don't.

It has nothing to do with Race, Nationality, or Location.

Wisconsin is near Pattani right?