Do Thais Drink More Alcohol Than People In Wisconsin Usa?

[Stradavarius37]

Here's another topic for my "Who gives a sh$t" file folder...

[StreetCowboy]

Here's another topic for my "Who gives a sh$t" file folder...

I'm quite surprised that you file them, as well as posting in them. I often ignore, and don't even bother opening threads I'm not interested in, for fear of embarrassing myself. Have you got a lot of great posts like the above in your files?

SC

[maidu]

The topic relates to the probable billions of dollars (or trillions of baht) that it costs Thai taxpayers - having to deal with the myriad problems of heavy drinkers here, both Thai and farang. If that's boring for you, so be it - go look at pictures of motorcycle gloves or whatever interests you more.

The problems stemming from millions of heavy drinkers could make a list as long as my arm, in #10 font. One key issue is, drinkers cause problems and added expenses for others who pay taxes and take responsibility for their actions. Drunks are like, ....well they're like drunks at a party. While people are standing around talking and having a good time, a drunk might walk through a glass door, or puke on the persian rug, or piss in the swimming pool. The others at the party might snicker (that's the most common response to drunks, along with accepting all their sorry excuses for being a**holes). The next day, the hosts of the party (authorities) go around to everyone (taxpayers) to get payments for all the damage done the night before by the drunks. .....and I didn't mention the myriad ways heavy drinking goes hand in glove with law-breaking.

[FunFon]

Yes it's a big problem, but no most here don't care that much.

Tobacco and lack of safety regulations for the workforce are IMO probably just as big a problem and personally I don't know many who get worked up about it.

So all you say is true, but I'm not sure of your goal in going on about it, do you think people here are going to actually want to join in some effort to solve the problem?

[Scully]

I don't recommend outlawing alcoholic drinks, but I would suggest doubling the costs of all alcoholic drinks, and using the added revenue to partially off-set the obscene costs that alcohol consumption saddles on regular taxpayers - particularly those who take care of themselves, and don't get drunk.

Regarding Thais who drinks excessively. Working for 10 hours a day for a couple of hundred Baht, why do you deny them to relax a bit after work with a few drinks?

It's an uneven playing field. If they went home and relaxed with a hit of pot or a hit of heroin, they could be fined and tossed in jail, and the next morning's headlines would scream "DRUG RELATED CRIME!" I've done heroin recreationally a few times, and I can tell you it's mellow and very relaxing. You never hear of a wife beating on heroin or pot, but we hear of wife beatings daily - which are alcohol fueled. The people who make drug laws don't have a clue because they don't know the effects of the drugs they criminalize. Alcohol drinkers always hide behind the excuse that they're 'casual and responsible drinkers.' We're to believe it's 'others' who are drunks. Those who do other types of recreational drugs don't have that handy excuse. If they get caught with even a smidgen of something illegal, they could be headed to long prison time.

There is a big glaring reason why alcohol is the only legal recreational drug. It's touted by a trillion dollar industry with lobbyists everywhere. Plus most legislators and judges (in Thailand, anyway) are hard drinkers. The #1 drug fighter is an alcoholic for chrissakes.

>Geez, another nanny state lover. What we really need are more taxes and more regulations. NOT.

Would you recommend alcohol drinkers take responsibility for their actions? If you're a drinker and you run my insurance rates up (and costs for hospitals, law enforcement, etc) ...would you be willing to pay me directly for my added costs? Of course not. Alcohol drinkers run costs up for everyone, but take little responsibility for it. It's akin to daredevil pranksters - who jump off bridges or get stuck skiing in avalanches. Their reckless behavior runs costs (for emergency services, insurance, helicopter search and rescue, etc) up for everyone else.

I got addicted to Heroin as a kid, 6 years of hell, brother 32 and father 61 died from alchoholism.

I drink to relax and sometimes go out on the lash with mates, trust me an alchoholic and an occasional drinker are two different types of animal.

You tax alcohol, more home brew, why work all day and not come home to a nice cold beer.

Nanny states have enough crap ideas without you adding to them.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It's not the alcohol problem in Wisconsin, Its the cheese. Too much Cheeeze.

Freak out.

Seriously though America in general is fairly mid pack country for Alcohol consumption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

and let's face

Alcohol is irreplaceable panty remover and social drug.

[FunFon]

I think much more interesting than average/mean overall statistics would be an analysis of "concentration" of drinking.

For example Germany, Ireland and Australia are quite high overall-per-capita IMO due to the fact that alcohol consumption is more socially accepted even for women, and people tend to start young.

IMO relevant to the question in the OP, Thailand is much more likely to have a smaller percentage of people, many more of whom are chronic problem drinkers, and large numbers of people that don't touch the stuff. Perhaps also similar to the religious sectors of the US?

Personally here in Thailand, I don't associate directly with anyone who drinks, but most families have one or two people that everyone knows is going to die from it sooner or later.

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't think Americans drink very much. Many are religious and don't drink at all. I think Thais drink much more alcohol. I'm always seeing Thais buy beer and whiskey at the stores. I never noticed people buying much alcohol when I lived in the states.

Younger Thais don't drink much, except when they go out partying at a nightclub or something. They almost never keep alcohol in their rooms or if they do, that one bottle of Johnny Walker only gets dusted off once a year when you visit them.

It's the older Thai males, particularly the blue collar workers aged around 45+ that drink, often every night. I only know a few people like that so to me, there's a definite distinction between educated, younger Thais in their 20s and early to mid 30s compared to older Thai males when it comes to drinking.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I think much more interesting than average/mean overall statistics would be an analysis of "concentration" of drinking.

For example Germany, Ireland and Australia are quite high overall-per-capita IMO due to the fact that alcohol consumption is more socially accepted even for women, and people tend to start young.

IMO relevant to the question in the OP, Thailand is much more likely to have a smaller percentage of people, many more of whom are chronic problem drinkers, and large numbers of people that don't touch the stuff. Perhaps also similar to the religious sectors of the US?

Personally here in Thailand, I don't associate directly with anyone who drinks, but most families have one or two people that everyone knows is going to die from it sooner or later.

80/20 aka Pareto rule usually applies all over the world. Probably evens out but interesting question about distribution differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

[FunFon]

80/20 aka Pareto rule usually applies all over the world. Probably evens out but interesting question about distribution differences.

-

Pareto's interesting for some phenomena but certainly not universal.

Found a decent infographic

and this from a 2007 survey:

In 2007, 16.9 million Thais (28.3%) aged 12–65 years had ever drank alcohol at some time during their lives.

...

Of Thais aged 12-65 years, 63% were abstainers (men-40.9% and women-81.5%). The prevalence of current drinkers (defined as individuals who drank at least 10 g of alcohol in 12 months before the survey) was 28.6%(men-48.4% and women-12.7%). Based on the AUDIT score, 6.7% of the Thai population could be classified as hazardous drinkers, 0.9% as harmful drinkers and 0.6% as probable alcohol dependents. The median drinking intensity was 50.8 g in men and 25.4 g in women. After adjusting for other variables, predictors of being hazardous-harmful or probably dependent drinkers included male gender, age groups of 20-24 and 25-44 years, not married and living in Bangkok

-

Pretty safe bet the answer to the OP's title question overall is "no".

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

80/20 aka Pareto rule usually applies all over the world. Probably evens out but interesting question about distribution differences.

-

Pareto's interesting for some phenomena but certainly not universal.

Found a decent infographic

and this from a 2007 survey:

>In 2007, 16.9 million Thais (28.3%) aged 12–65 years had ever drank alcohol at some time during their lives.

...

Of Thais aged 12-65 years, 63% were abstainers (men-40.9% and women-81.5%). The prevalence of current drinkers (defined as individuals who drank at least 10 g of alcohol in 12 months before the survey) was 28.6%(men-48.4% and women-12.7%). Based on the AUDIT score, 6.7% of the Thai population could be classified as hazardous drinkers, 0.9% as harmful drinkers and 0.6% as probable alcohol dependents. The median drinking intensity was 50.8 g in men and 25.4 g in women. After adjusting for other variables, predictors of being hazardous-harmful or probably dependent drinkers included male gender, age groups of 20-24 and 25-44 years, not married and living in Bangkok

-

Pretty safe bet the answer to the OP's title question overall is "no".

well help me out where any of that doesn't show that 20% of the Thai population are not drinking 80% of the alcohol?

right off the bat if 63% are abstainers then without any more refinement we know that 37% of Thais are drinking 100% of the alcohol.

[473geo]

My observations would lead me to believe Thailand is changing, yes there is still the element of aged loa kao drinkers but the majority of Thai I encouter are moderate, very moderate, or non drinkers. I have attended a few village weddings and more and more frequently even though the alcohol is free, these days there are no more than the usual half dozen village drunks, most inebriated before they arrived!! less in numbers as they are not replaced when they leave this life. Just a note to the OP, criticising the effects of one drug does not give you the right to promote an alternative such as canabis or heroin.....a rather thoughtless addition to the discussion

[FunFon]

80/20 aka Pareto rule usually applies all over the world. Probably evens out but interesting question about distribution differences.

-

Pareto's interesting for some phenomena but certainly not universal.

Found a decent infographic

and this from a 2007 survey:

>In 2007, 16.9 million Thais (28.3%) aged 12–65 years had ever drank alcohol at some time during their lives.

...

Of Thais aged 12-65 years, 63% were abstainers (men-40.9% and women-81.5%). The prevalence of current drinkers (defined as individuals who drank at least 10 g of alcohol in 12 months before the survey) was 28.6%(men-48.4% and women-12.7%). Based on the AUDIT score, 6.7% of the Thai population could be classified as hazardous drinkers, 0.9% as harmful drinkers and 0.6% as probable alcohol dependents. The median drinking intensity was 50.8 g in men and 25.4 g in women. After adjusting for other variables, predictors of being hazardous-harmful or probably dependent drinkers included male gender, age groups of 20-24 and 25-44 years, not married and living in B

angkok

-

Pretty safe bet the answer to the OP's title question overall is "no".

well help me out where any of that doesn't show that 20% of the Thai population are not drinking 80% of the alcohol?

right off the bat if 63% are abstainers then without any more refinement we know that 37% of Thais are drinking 100% of the alcohol.

-

I think more likely here something like 5% of the population consume 90%, while back in Wisconsin maybe something like 30% drink 60%.

My real point wrt to your throwing Pareto in, is that whatever the distribution may be for any one category of human on the planet, it certainly isn't the same distribution from one to the other, whether using national borders, rural vs urban, age sex or whatever, each classification will have a different distribution curve as well as a different overall average/mean statistic.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

80/20 aka Pareto rule usually applies all over the world. Probably evens out but interesting question about distribution differences.

-

-

"I think more likely here something like 5% of the population consume 90%, while back in Wisconsin maybe something like 30% drink 60%.

My real point wrt to your throwing Pareto in, is that whatever the distribution may be for any one category of human on the planet, it certainly isn't the same distribution from one to the other, whether using national borders, rural vs urban, age sex or whatever, each classification will have a different distribution curve as well as a different overall average/mean statistic."

5 % and 90 %

I would be fascinated to see if that holds.

Anyone have more data to contemplate?

If we have learned anything both Thai's and Cheeseheads are lightweights in the drinking world.

I would expect asians to drink less because many asian populations lack the aldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme to break down alcohol so they need to drink less to get trashed.

http://dailyuw.com/archive/2003/03/11/imported/asian-glow-explained#.UU1xKuuFDss

really I would want to know how much alcohol is in a given populations blood stream and for how long. Knowing what the ingestion is misleading due to metabolism differences.

Keep an eye on a Native American and a little bit of alcohol and they off the proverbial reservation. They are thought to have migrated from Siberia way back.

Edited March 23, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The other big factor is bodyweight of the avg Thai versus most other countries.

The per capita per country alcohol consumption rates are per person but don't account for body weight. As far as I can tell anyway.

If Thai's avg body weight is 30% less and they cannot metabolize the alcohol as quickly then it's possible Thai's might competitive in terms of actual inebriation given their size and biology.

Some study may have already tried to measure this.

[maidu]

My observations would lead me to believe Thailand is changing, yes there is still the element of aged loa kao drinkers but the majority of Thai I encouter are moderate, very moderate, or non drinkers. I have attended a few village weddings and more and more frequently even though the alcohol is free, these days there are no more than the usual half dozen village drunks, most inebriated before they arrived!! less in numbers as they are not replaced when they leave this life. Just a note to the OP, criticising the effects of one drug does not give you the right to promote an alternative such as canabis or heroin.....a rather thoughtless addition to the discussion

AA started on the premise, proved millions of times, that alcoholics rarely admit they're alcoholics - and if they do, it's usually a long while after they've caused problems for themselves and others around them. Similarly, if you're doing a survey, and walk up to someone at a mall or on the sidewalk and ask whether they're a heavy drinker, they're not likely to admit it if they are. Indeed, if they are, they're not likely to even acknowledge it to themselves. So, such surveys are not worth any more than the Thai voter surveys during the recent BKK elections.

The reason I mention 'alternative' recreational drugs (all but alcohol are illegal) is to showcase how ridiculous and cruel the current drug laws are. The inequities could fill a book. There are Thai women serving life sentences in Vietnam and HK for (stupidly) carrying a bit of pot into airports - while thousands of drunks cause all sorts of dire problems each day - and they get giggled at, and excused by society.

[FunFon]

The reason I mention 'alternative' recreational drugs (all but alcohol are illegal) is to showcase how ridiculous and cruel the current drug laws are. The inequities could fill a book. There are Thai women serving life sentences in Vietnam and HK for (stupidly) carrying a bit of pot into airports - while thousands of drunks cause all sorts of dire problems each day - and they get giggled at, and excused by society.

-

You're right, I personally agree, but believe me you're wasting your time going on about it here, what is it you're actually trying to accomplish?

[Chicog]

"Tax everyone for stuff except the stuff I like".

<deleted> NIMBYs.

[StreetCowboy]

"Tax everyone for stuff except the stuff I like".

<deleted> NIMBYs.

I don't really mind the excise duty. If I didn't pay for it on beer, I'd pay for it through income tax

SC

[maidu]

The reason I mention 'alternative' recreational drugs (all but alcohol are illegal) is to showcase how ridiculous and cruel the current drug laws are. The inequities could fill a book. There are Thai women serving life sentences in Vietnam and HK for (stupidly) carrying a bit of pot into airports - while thousands of drunks cause all sorts of dire problems each day - and they get giggled at, and excused by society.

-

You're right, I personally agree, but believe me you're wasting your time going on about it here, what is it you're actually trying to accomplish?

You can call it 'creating awareness'. Why do people write 'letters to the Editor' of publications? .....or call it venting, whatever. I write a profusion of letters to editors and sometimes it appears one or two have some slight effect on public discourse. Example; Years ago I had several letters published in the major newspapers lamenting how impoverished parents had to spend hundreds of dollars a year to get new uniforms, shoes and books each year for their school-aged kids. A short while later legislation was passed in which the State helped cover such expenses. I don't know if my repeated mentions had any bearing, but it's cool to think it may have.

[SteeleJoe]

-You're right, I personally agree, but believe me you're wasting your time going on about it here, what is it you're actually trying to accomplish?

What is ANY post on this thread or any other going to accomplish? Isn't much of the forum about wasting one's time in a way that one finds amusing or enlightening or otherwise diverting?

I agree with him too but I take it for granted that neither his post or my agreement accomplish anything...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[FunFon]

I think requesting and gathering information is of value.

Not denying the right of anyone to post whatever they like, just trying to clarify if he had a more specific goal in mind.

[Stradavarius37]

Here's another topic for my "Who gives a sh$t" file folder...

I'm quite surprised that you file them, as well as posting in them. I often ignore, and don't even bother opening threads I'm not interested in, for fear of embarrassing myself. Have you got a lot of great posts like the above in your files?

SC

And one more! Filling up fast!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

my answer after looking into is

Thai's drink nominally less measured alcohol per capita but considering their lighter bodyweight and less efficient biology to metabolize alcohol then they put away a relatively large amount of booze.

as noted above 37% of Thai's apparently do all that drinking

How the Koreans drink so much is beyond me... They are the champion drinkers of Asia.

[Thailand2012]

The reason I mention 'alternative' recreational drugs (all but alcohol are illegal) is to showcase how ridiculous and cruel the current drug laws are. The inequities could fill a book. There are Thai women serving life sentences in Vietnam and HK for (stupidly) carrying a bit of pot into airports - while thousands of drunks cause all sorts of dire problems each day - and they get giggled at, and excused by society.

-

You're right, I personally agree, but believe me you're wasting your time going on about it here, what is it you're actually trying to accomplish?

You can call it 'creating awareness'. Why do people write 'letters to the Editor' of publications? .....or call it venting, whatever. I write a profusion of letters to editors and sometimes it appears one or two have some slight effect on public discourse. Example; Years ago I had several letters published in the major newspapers lamenting how impoverished parents had to spend hundreds of dollars a year to get new uniforms, shoes and books each year for their school-aged kids. A short while later legislation was passed in which the State helped cover such expenses. I don't know if my repeated mentions had any bearing, but it's cool to think it may have.

well good for you,you god fearing tea totaling goodie too shoes.i agree alcohol is 1 of the most dangerous drugs but legal and socially accepted,your alternative herion canabis,yes when your on the nod your to stoned to be a wife basher.do i really have to go into what herion users get up to for there next hit??? so you have never had a drink?? maybe you got hammered and prayed to the porcelan god all morning.Alcohol as with tabacco are the 2 most taxed consumable products on the market world wide.and you want to tax that product more,do some research on your drug of choice herion and see the effects of herion have on society world wide.as for who drinks more thais or people from wisconsin who cares as long as everyone is having a good time.

[FunFon]

your alternative herion canabis,yes when your on the nod your to stoned to be a wife basher.do i really have to go into what herion users get up to for there next hit???

...

see the effects of herion have on society world wide.

-

I'm not advocating for its legalisation, but IMO 90% of the damage done by heroin is actually caused by the fact that it's prohibited, creating the criminal black-market organisations and making it expensive.

Methadone's not a "treatment" just an equivalent substitute, but because it's legal and well-regulated doesn't have the same social consequences.

[maidu]

[quuote]as for who drinks more thais or people from wisconsin who cares as long as everyone is having a good time.

.....until the drunk driver crashes and maims the innocent - which happens about a dozen times a day in Thailand. Then the good times end in a split second.

.....or until the bills come due for all others (who drink moderately, or don't drink) - but drunkards don't think about that, any more than a rock band trashing a hotel room thinks about the repercussions of their actions.

[FunFon]

Interesting article on Portugal's recent experience with an IMO more sane approach to the "war on drugs".

[maidu]

Interesting article on Portugal's recent experience with an IMO more sane approach to the "war on drugs".

Thanks for that link. I read it. Nice to hear that there are some people with reasonable ideas about drugs - who have the authority to effect the laws in their countries. Most countries, Thailand included, even if they had someone in power who had the wisdom to perceive such a concept (that the war on drugs is doing more harm than good) - would not have the courage to do any tangible action to make things better.

[FunFon]

I doubt if many with any real power here would even consider it a good idea, and even if it happened it would be a very very hard sell with the voters.