What Would You Do? – An Agony Of Conscience

[Beetlejuice]

About a week ago, around 2.00pm in the afternoon, my brother in law while driving home alone in Bangkok came across an horrific incident.

In front of him two drivers of cars, a woman in her 30s and a man in his 40s became involved in an altercation. They both stopped their vehicles got out and became to argue. My brother in law was not on the scene at the beginning and had no idea how this dispute between the 2 drivers started.

Suddenly the man began to continuously throw hard punches at the woman until she fell and still lay hits and blows into her for several seconds as she lie on the ground, after which the man calmly walked back to his car and drove off.

During the assault, no one, including my brother in law came to the aid or attempted to rescue the woman and some people were actually filming the assault on their cell phones. After the guy drove away everyone else just went on their merry way leaving the poor woman blooded, injured and in distress on the ground besides her car. My brother in law who is a slightly built man in his mid 40s said the assailant was a powerfully built man, he seemed almost deranged and that he was afraid to confront him, but now feels bad for not helping the woman.

Considering that this woman may have been very seriously injured or even killed, what would you have done if suddenly confronted with a similar situation? Also please keep in mind that I only received this information third hand from my wife, so I don`t know the full facts and only passing on how this incident was explained to me.

As for what I would have done, to be honest I don`t know.

Please note: anyone who hopes to turn this into a Thai bashing thread, please p-ss off in advance. Incidents such as this can happen anywhere in the world.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[nevets]

Take car number and photo and distract him as he is shouting at me he will have stoped hiting her.

[robblok]

Photo's and noting the car number, maybe calling the police. Then maybe i would try to do something but I am not slight build. I wonder how i would react knowing i could not physically overpower the other. But registering it all and making sure the guy get caught does count for something.

I am not sure if i would go into a situation knowing i would loose for a total stranger, ill be honest about that one.

[aTomsLife]

If I was your BIL I would have stayed and helped the woman. I don't blame him for not getting involved in the altercation, particularly if he was sure of his inability to restrain a larger, and likely deranged, man.

As for what I would have done: I'm a farang; Thais don't want me involved, and it's not impossible that someone would make trouble for me for intervening. I am trying to be objective, not insulting. It comes down to this society having made its bed, and my practical belief it should lay in it accordingly.

Edited March 16, 2013 by aTomsLife

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

who knows the attackers mindset. Could have been drug or alcohol fueled.

Women are second class citizens in Thailand and this guy might have had some juice that makes him above the law.

Nobody really wants to get involved with someone that has connections and that can explain a lot of bad behavior not being confronted in many countries like Thailand.

Until the laws try to be applied to everyone equally then this is going to continue.

[rixalex]

I've never witnessed it before thankfully, but have heard about incidents in which a mob mentality suddenly erupts, when say for example a motorist does something stupid that results in a collision with a motorcyclist. Indeed we often hear the reason given for guilty parties fleeing from accidents is fear of public reprisals. Then of course there have been incidents like the chap who vandalized a shrine in Bangkok and was beaten to death by enraged onlookers.

I only mention this because it strikes me as a bit of a shame that when incidents like the one the OP describes, there doesn't seem to be a similar reaction from onlookers. Not that i condone mob beatings i hasten to add, but if there is a time for some sort of a reaction, then surely a woman being beaten to the ground by a man is as good as any.

[rookball]

i would yell at the men during the assault but not get physically involved.

[easyride]

If I was your BIL I would have stayed and helped the woman. I don't blame him for not getting involved in the altercation, particularly if he was sure of his inability to restrain a larger, and likely deranged, man.

As for what I would have done: I'm a farang; Thais don't want me involved, and it's not impossible that someone would make trouble for me for intervening. I am trying to be objective, not insulting. It comes down to this society having made its bed, and my practical belief it should lay in it accordingly.

I'm not bashing but this post is sadly more accurate than not. TIT

[kevvy]

i am a big guy, but i would not fight as he could have had a gun or anything on his person. But, i would have stopped and said something , and take photos then would have helped the poor girl and then called police . this happens in all countries not just thailand .

[yourauntbob]

As others said, I would take a few quick pics with my phone but I would then approach and start yelling a bit to try to get him to stop. If in that case he did not I probably would get involved knowing I am creating a possible liability for myself. I dont think I could just look on as a person was savagely beaten even if it meant possible problems for myself. But then again, I am rarely accused of being smart.

[Kilgore Trout]

This has never happened to me so only two things are possible:

a) the op is making this up

b- the lady must have done something to deserve it

This seems to be the prevalent attitude on TV nowadays, because Thai people would never, ever do something wrong or bad.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Kilgore Trout

[aTomsLife]

I'm not a big guy, so getting involved would mean a willingness to take a tire-iron to the guys skull, or its equivalent.

Where I'm from, there's a saying about guns: they should never be used to intimidate someone; if you pull one, be prepared to shoot, and to shoot to kill (lest it be wrestled away from you, and, well, you get the picture). My point is that I apply this same logic to my life in Thailand. Given my place in this society, if I'm going to fight with a Thai, I'm doing so with the necessity of having to kill, in order to spare my own life or the lives of my children/wife. If the matter isn't life and death, I will always choose to walk away.

Of course witnessing such a scene as the OP describes would be depressing, but my conscious would nevertheless remain clear.

Edited March 16, 2013 by aTomsLife

[kennedy]

I've never read a story of a farang hero in Thailand. Enough said.

[Radar501]

Intervening would seem the right thing to do. If it just a one-on-one fight with the other guy, the worst you might end up with is a fat lip.

But Thai guys don't fight fair, especially if it's a farang involved, coz we are on their turf. If he got onto his mobile phone, he could have four of his mates there within minutes, baying for blood.

Better to be a live soldier than a dead hero.

[Beetlejuice]

I have often warned my daughter, that when driving her car and if she becomes involved in an occurrence such as described in my OP, than lock the car doors, stay in the vehicle and look away from the person who maybe shouting at her to try not to provoke further. If the person or persons begin attacking the vehicle, then phone the police and tell them she is under threat of violence or the vehicle is being attacked.

These days I can assume that if under attack we are on our own. I totally agree with some posters that these maniacs maybe armed or even have the support of bystanders that may know them.

Proof that if you were being murdered in public most people would ignore it.

[JurgenG]

It is not because she is a woman that she is always right

A true story that happened to a friend of mine. He was with a lady friend of us who was at the time heavily pregnant. The lady is a big mouth, a really BIG mouth. She got into an argument with some guy in the street. The guy got really upset and suddenly hit my friend right in the face. He then looked at my friend, half sorry and say "Sorry, she is a woman, I couldn't hit her, could I ?" and walk away.

Chose your friends carefully.

[evadgib]

1. Witnesses to the OP: Collate as much evidence as possible (dashcam, mobile, stills, VRN's) & post it onto youtube etc with enought pointers to attract anyone looking for it. Email the footage to a 3rd party to upload if necessary.

2. Victims (or families, insurers etc): Google keywords relating to the incident (date, time, location etc) in the hope that you'll find #1. A visit to the local municipality is advisable too incase they caught the event on CCTV.

With the amount of technology available to everyone these days this should be normal practice.

Edited March 16, 2013 by evadgib

[cms989]

I am very curious to hear responses to this as it pertains to helping the woman after the incident.

Years ago in Chiang Mai I witnessed a woman crash on her motorbike at night. She was on the ground, dazed. My first instict was to run over and offer help, and standing over her, I realized I had no idea what to do. I offered my hand awkwardly and she didn't take it, just stood up, dazed, so I walked away as she got her bearings.

That incident motivated me to take an EMT-level first responders course. In the U.S. if you broke your leg, were having a heart attack or stroke, an allergy attack, whatever, I could provide help until professionals arrived.

I go back to that incident now being in Thailand and wonder what I could/should do. The language barrier would be difficult, especially in terms of two important things (identifying myself and obtaining permission to help). Add to that the bias against farang getting involved in anything. I know my legal protections in the U.S. (if I don't go above my training I cannot be liable for helping if I got permission), here in Thailand I have no idea. But my training tells me I have a moral obligation to help in all cases.

Edited March 16, 2013 by cms989

[diddums]

I would have blocked his car in with mine so he could not move...then called him a Nancy girl and ran around and around my car with him chasing till the police arrived.

[DiamondKing]

Unfortunately for me I would not be able to stand by while that was happening and would take immediate action and take the guy out, I realize that I would be putting myself at risk but as a man I could not live with myself watching a man beatin on a woman when i had the power to help.

Edited March 16, 2013 by DiamondKing

[jamhar]

Glad to see i'm in like company.

Photo the tags, then step in

Having done this type if thing before,

a lot of time, you just have to break their frenzy.

but like it or not, dangerous or not, i would have stepped in.

One exception, If i had my daughter with me.

I wouldn't leave her side,

but i'd yell, use my car, Honk the horns,

throw something to try to break his frenzy,

but i would not leave my daughters side.

But that's just me.

[cms989]

Unfortunately for me I would not be able to stand by while that was happening and would take immediate action and take the guy out, I realize that I would be putting myself at risk but as a man I could not live with myself watching a man beatin on a woman when i had the power to help.

First this is a tough argument to start because you're obviously morally right and this is a hypothetical situation so I think you have an easier position to defend.

That said.. there are some parts of the world where this would be a very, very bad idea. Unfortunately in some parts of the world women are seen as much lesser objects. Foreigners even lower. By trying to intervene to help a woman (possibly another man's wife, for example), you would put yourself in a world of shit with everyone who was witnessing it. And although your original intention of helping the woman may be noble, the world of shit you created would create worse outcomes for you and everybody else.

Edited March 16, 2013 by cms989

[NoshowJones]

Take car number and photo and distract him as he is shouting at me he will have stoped hiting her.

This is not Thai bashing, it is fact. If any Farang gets involved with Thais in any violent situation. Any Thais nearby will attack the Farang to the danger of his life. I am big and fit and no coward, but if I saw Thais in any violent situation, I would get well away, simply because I don't fancy odds of about six to one.

[NoshowJones]

i would yell at the men during the assault but not get physically involved.

If there are other Thais about, I don't thing that would save you from being attacked.

[NoshowJones]

I am very curious to hear responses to this as it pertains to helping the woman after the incident.

Years ago in Chiang Mai I witnessed a woman crash on her motorbike at night. She was on the ground, dazed. My first instict was to run over and offer help, and standing over her, I realized I had no idea what to do. I offered my hand awkwardly and she didn't take it, just stood up, dazed, so I walked away as she got her bearings.

That incident motivated me to take an EMT-level first responders course. In the U.S. if you broke your leg, were having a heart attack or stroke, an allergy attack, whatever, I could provide help until professionals arrived.

I go back to that incident now being in Thailand and wonder what I could/should do. The language barrier would be difficult, especially in terms of two important things (identifying myself and obtaining permission to help). Add to that the bias against farang getting involved in anything. I know my legal protections in the U.S. (if I don't go above my training I cannot be liable for helping if I got permission), here in Thailand I have no idea. But my training tells me I have a moral obligation to help in all cases.

Again, this is not Thai bashing, if you come across an accident when you are driving or riding a motorbike, no matter whether it's involving women or children, you ignore it and get away, because if you become involved, they will most likely try and get money from you, or even blame you for causing it. You are Farang, you have plenty of money. That's the way the Thais see it.

[cms989]

I am very curious to hear responses to this as it pertains to helping the woman after the incident.

Years ago in Chiang Mai I witnessed a woman crash on her motorbike at night. She was on the ground, dazed. My first instict was to run over and offer help, and standing over her, I realized I had no idea what to do. I offered my hand awkwardly and she didn't take it, just stood up, dazed, so I walked away as she got her bearings.

That incident motivated me to take an EMT-level first responders course. In the U.S. if you broke your leg, were having a heart attack or stroke, an allergy attack, whatever, I could provide help until professionals arrived.

I go back to that incident now being in Thailand and wonder what I could/should do. The language barrier would be difficult, especially in terms of two important things (identifying myself and obtaining permission to help). Add to that the bias against farang getting involved in anything. I know my legal protections in the U.S. (if I don't go above my training I cannot be liable for helping if I got permission), here in Thailand I have no idea. But my training tells me I have a moral obligation to help in all cases.

Again, this is not Thai bashing, if you come across an accident when you are driving or riding a motorbike, no matter whether it's involving women or children, you ignore it and get away, because if you become involved, they will most likely try and get money from you, or even blame you for causing it. You are Farang, you have plenty of money. That's the way the Thais see it.

That's sort of my feeling. I am not going to get involved in anything. But I've resolved myself that if someone's life is in imminent danger I will provide help if I can, no matter the consequences, because I wouldn't want their death on my conscience.

Easier said than done of course. On my flight out here they asked for a doctor or nurse because someone was seriously sick, and I didn't have the confidence to say I was anything close to that. But even doctors involved in my training told me often first responders are much better because doctors may not be well trained in emergency care outside their speciality (many stories of egotistical doctors trying to control a situation when it is the technician who knows what needs to be done to keep someone alive until they can get to a hospital, it is a different skill). I.e. your probably want a paramedic not a dermatologist if your leg gets cut off in a car wreck.

Edited March 16, 2013 by cms989

[rideswings]

A few years ago I saw a Thai guy kickboxing his wife across from my home. I was with my then-gf. He was very drunk and she would not stop yelling at him. So he kept hitting her. And kicking her in the head. Finally she was down and he stopped. As soon as she tried to get up and started talking to him again, he would start hitting and kicking her again. Then after another savage assault she was finally down for the night. My then-gf would not let me get involved, not let me call police, and told me to just mind my own business (in a nice way) and that they would work it out themselves. She said that if i went over there, the Thais would tell me to mind my own business and might try to fight with me. I guess they believed what he was doing was his business.

I saw the lady (victim) the next day and she didnt have a place on her body that wasnt bruised. She just smiled at us and kept on walking. I was, and still am, so dazed that I think about it all the time.

The story does have an optimistic ending though, my ex-gf absolutely assured me. According to her, the assailant probably was probably not going to have a long term relationship with his private parts, and probably his life. Seems like its ok to beat on your wife if your a drunk abuser, likewise its perfectly fine, and might not do any jail time, if you take a knife to your husbands privates if he has been an abuser. Or poison his food a little at a time until he's dead. My ex-gf almost seemed to glow and grin when she told me about this, she knew he was going to get his, so no need for me to get involved.

This is really an amusing country! I love it more every day (with tongue in cheek)

[Choonpon]

Would not dare to intervene but could probably take video of the incident (with clear view of the man and vehicle number) and post to youtube. Shame on that bully!

[fletchsmile]

Please note: anyone who hopes to turn this into a Thai bashing thread, please p-ss off in advance. Incidents such as this can happen anywhere in the world.

Indeed incidents like this can happen anywhere in the world. On the other hand in many places in the world people would react differently to the way the average Thai does in this situation. Different also to the way all the Thais in the situation were described as acting.

I have to say I've very little respect for the way your average Thai or should I say most Thais just ignore these things and don't try and do something about it, or help the lady involved in some way - particulalrly after the assailant had left. One side of Thai people and Thai society I don't like.

Edited March 16, 2013 by fletchsmile

[daveh]

possum1931, on 16 Mar 2013 - 20:34, said:

Again, this is not Thai bashing, if you come across an accident when you are driving or riding a motorbike, no matter whether it's involving women or children, you ignore it and get away, because if you become involved, they will most likely try and get money from you, or even blame you for causing it. You are Farang, you have plenty of money. That's the way the Thais see it.

Last week, while riding a motorbike in Phuket with my 22 year old Thai niece. We passed a Thai guy going the other direction on his mobile. Shortly thereafter, we heard a clang. I stopped the motorbike and looked back. We saw that he had driven off the road and a curve in the road, and hit the guard rail.

My first instinct was to go over to see if he was okay, but then I thought more about it. Worried that somehow I could be blamed, I thought a little more. Since I had my niece with me and she was an adult, I figured if I helped him and he blamed me to the cops, then my niece could be a witness that we had nothing to do with the accident. Just when I was about to U-turn, he got up and my niece told me I shouldn't help because of what we've all heard.

Since he was up and limping to his bike, and had a mobile phone, I took her advice went on our way.