Fyi: Exit/reentry Permits

[Babytalk]

Are the services of the "visa companies" legal? If you use these companies - are you involved in corruption & bribery? Can one get in trouble using these companies? And I don't like the idea of "just dropping off your passport and picking it up in a few days" like TFC said. But my main question is if the greasing of the wheels of CM Immigration by these companies is legal.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Babytalk

[uptheos]

Are the services of the "visa companies" legal? If you use these companies - are you involved in corruption & bribery? Can one get in trouble using these companies? And I don't like the idea of "just dropping off your passport and picking it up in a few days" like TFC said. But my main question is if the greasing of the wheels of CM Immigration by these companies is legal.

The Assist representative shows up at immigration with a fistful of 90 day reports, which get done. Is it legal? Well, CM Immigration wouldn't be involved in anything illegal would they? So draw you're own conclusions.

[briley]

Doing a 90 day report for someone else is fine,

but the re-entry visa and extensions form do say have to be done in person.

[bobl]

Doing a 90 day report for someone else is fine,

but the re-entry visa and extensions form do say have to be done in person.

That's why I was surprised by Dave's post. It's not often I find a post I basically agree with, offensive.

I have less than zero sympathy for those who voluntarily attend that particular zoo - but there are very few (legal) options for not attending (90 day reporting being one of the few). While I agree that paying someone 50 bucks a year to do that for you is a no-brainer, doing re-entry permits and/or extensions through an agent is not strictly legal. To berate people who don't use the 'agent' method of circumventing bs bureaucracy is crossing the line, somewhat.

[hml367]

Doing a 90 day report for someone else is fine,

but the re-entry visa and extensions form do say have to be done in person.

That's why I was surprised by Dave's post. It's not often I find a post I basically agree with, offensive.

I have less than zero sympathy for those who voluntarily attend that particular zoo - but there are very few (legal) options for not attending (90 day reporting being one of the few). While I agree that paying someone 50 bucks a year to do that for you is a no-brainer, doing re-entry permits and/or extensions through an agent is not strictly legal. To berate people who don't use the 'agent' method of circumventing bs bureaucracy is crossing the line, somewhat.

What makes it illegal?

This is what I see in the Immigration Act for both re-entry permits and extensions.

Maybe the official may require being there in person. I don't see anything making it legally required. Are there some other regulations or laws I am missing?

MSPain

Edited April 5, 2013 by hml367

[hml367]

For some reason I cannot edit my previous post.

After looking at the forms again, both forms say "Application must be made in person."

Maybe that makes it required. Semantics I suppose, yet not sure whether legal or not..... we have to do what they tell us to do.

MSPain

I can edit this post apparently..... So.... The Act also allows high officials to change what may or may not be required in some instances. Maybe letting services help foreigners helps the Immigration office workload.

Edited April 5, 2013 by hml367

[uptheos]

Maybe letting services help foreigners helps the Immigration office workload.

Yes, I'm sure that is the reason.

[Babytalk]

You pay the Visa Agency, then the Visa Agency takes part of the money you paid them and gives it to officials in Immigration as "a gift", then you get your visa/extension/re-entry double-quick & que-free. Does anyone here seriously think this is legal?

[uptheos]

You pay the Visa Agency, then the Visa Agency takes part of the money you paid them and gives it to officials in Immigration as "a gift", then you get your visa/extension/re-entry double-quick & que-free. Does anyone here seriously think this is legal?

Is that what happens for sure?

[hml367]

Maybe letting services help foreigners helps the Immigration office workload.

Yes, I'm sure that is the reason.

I was not giving a reason for anything. I made an observation that the visa services doing some of the work and keeping people out of the Immigration office may ease their workload in the office.

But you can make of it what you will.

[uptheos]

Maybe letting services help foreigners helps the Immigration office workload.

Yes, I'm sure that is the reason.

I was not giving a reason for anything. I made an observation that the visa services doing some of the work and keeping people out of the Immigration office may ease their workload in the office.

But you can make of it what you will.

A well manned cattle corale might be the answer.

[hml367]

Should the cattle corral (I from the US and what I am guessing is in the picture) be manned by current personnel, or will they have to hire more people?

MSPain

It occurred to me that they have tried something similar in the past to board airlines in Asia (not just Thailand) and it was still a mad rush from what I remember.

Edited April 5, 2013 by hml367

[CMNightRider]

Maybe letting services help foreigners helps the Immigration office workload.

Yes, I'm sure that is the reason.

I was not giving a reason for anything. I made an observation that the visa services doing some of the work and keeping people out of the Immigration office may ease their workload in the office.

But you can make of it what you will.

It looks to me like the "Visa Services" are allowed to jump the line to get their clients 90 day, and one year visa renewals processed while the people (cattle) with numbers and scheduled appointments have to wait longer. The only logical reason the immigration officers would allow the "Visa Services" to jump in front of everyone, is the "Visa Services" pay the immigration officers or supervision. The workload appears to remain the same for immigration staff other than a few less bodies have to stand or sit inside the small, inadequate immigration office waiting room. I don't see where this speeds up anything. Immigration staff tends to take their time getting to their assigned desk in the morning (usually late) and take plenty of breaks during the day. I wonder what immigration staff does with all the forms we are required to fill out? Do they shred them every five or ten years? I have only been here five years. My file must be at least a foot thick (30.48 cm).

[uptheos]

Maybe letting services help foreigners helps the Immigration office workload.

Yes, I'm sure that is the reason.

I was not giving a reason for anything. I made an observation that the visa services doing some of the work and keeping people out of the Immigration office may ease their workload in the office.

But you can make of it what you will.

It looks to me like the "Visa Services" are allowed to jump the line to get their clients 90 day, and one year visa renewals processed while the people (cattle) with numbers and scheduled appointments have to wait longer. The only logical reason the immigration officers would allow the "Visa Services" to jump in front of everyone, is the "Visa Services" pay the immigration officers or supervision. The workload appears to remain the same for immigration staff other than a few less bodies have to stand or sit inside the small, inadequate immigration office waiting room. I don't see where this speeds up anything. Immigration staff tends to take their time getting to their assigned desk in the morning (usually late) and take plenty of breaks during the day. I wonder what immigration staff does with all the forms we are required to fill out? Do they shred them every five or ten years? I have only been here five years. My file must be at least a foot thick (30.48 cm).

The queue online system allows for 2 hour lunch breaks....why?

The paper is burned every March and blamed on the farmers and Burmese.

[uptheos]

Should the cattle corral (I from the US and what I am guessing is in the picture) be manned by current personnel, or will they have to hire more people?

MSPain

It occurred to me that they have tried something similar in the past to board airlines in Asia (not just Thailand) and it was still a mad rush from what I remember.

Anyone remember how the 'barcode' was supposedly going to solve all the problems? Not long ago, but seems so.

[jackr]

Regardless of the Immigration office's excuses--at least some of which are probably valid--the whole set-up is a disgrace...

You'll have the strange ones with funny-coloured glasses after you with that remark.

Compared to what a Thai faces trying to achieve long-term residence in the US, it's a piece of cake.

But renewing a visa is hardly the same as attaining one, is it. I don't know the ins & outs of the Green Card system, but I very much doubt the Yankee Doodles drag their immigrants ('guests') into a hut to report their whereabouts every 5 minutes. Shoot, I bet they could even buy a house!

[CMNightRider]

You pay the Visa Agency, then the Visa Agency takes part of the money you paid them and gives it to officials in Immigration as "a gift", then you get your visa/extension/re-entry double-quick & que-free. Does anyone here seriously think this is legal?

It is obvious the Visa Agency has to pay someone at immigration to process their clients one year visa's and 90 day reports. I don't think this is legal. It just adds to the waiting time of the people that show up at immigration in person. As the CM expat community grows, and CM Immigration remains in their present, inadequate facility, it becomes evident the ring leader of this circus is either operating way over his or her head or may even be incompetent. Hopefully, this person will wake up and make a command decision to move immigration to an adequate facility, and staff that facility with trained, competent staff.

[anselpixel]

To bring things back into the realm of reality here, not even an agent can relieve retirees of the responsibility for showing up at the one-year extension, and all the legwork with one's own embassy/consulate is still incumbent on the petitioner.

There's no way to avoid some interaction, but the impact can be minimized by greasing the wheel.

Also, if anyone thinks it's a piece of cake to get any kind of visa for a Thai national in the US, be my guest. Go ask if you can bring your girlfriend to Disneyworld next time you decide to go home. I promise an exercise in frustration that makes CM immigration look like the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

[CMNightRider]

To bring things back into the realm of reality here, not even an agent can relieve retirees of the responsibility for showing up at the one-year extension, and all the legwork with one's own embassy/consulate is still incumbent on the petitioner.

There's no way to avoid some interaction, but the impact can be minimized by greasing the wheel.

Also, if anyone thinks it's a piece of cake to get any kind of visa for a Thai national in the US, be my guest. Go ask if you can bring your girlfriend to Disneyworld next time you decide to go home. I promise an exercise in frustration that makes CM immigration look like the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

I don't think the application process for a Thai citizen to visit the US would make CM immigration look like Big Rock Candy Mountain, lol. It is true there is a long on-line application to complete for a Thai to visit the US. Once that is completed they will be required to attend a visa interview at the CM American Consulate, along with documents which include bank statements showing that they have sufficient financial resources to cover their entire trip, a valid passport, and any documents demonstrating strong ties to Thailand, such as an employment verification letter from their employer.

The interview is generally very short. After their application is approved, they should have a ten year visa allowing them to stay in the states every year up to six months at a time. During their visits in the states, they will not be required to report to immigration or harassed every year to show the American Consulate the same documents year after year.

If your girlfriend is a hooker or maybe thirty years younger than you, then you may encounter a problem getting her a visa. If she has sufficient funds she could even purchase a home in America. Unless your girlfriend is a teenager there would probably be better sites than Disney World to show her.

Regardless, I think the application process would be time well spent. If you add up all the time a we spend at Thai Immigration, re-newing our one year visas, mulit-entry stamps, and 90 day reports over a period of ten years, it is an easy and straight forward process she will have in obtaining her ten year visa.

[hml367]

Just to clarify the visa and entry to the US:

A visa allows a foreign citizen coming from abroad, to travel to the United
States port-of entry and request permission to enter the U.S. Applicants should
be aware that a visa does not guarantee entry into the United States. The
Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
officials have authority to permit or deny admission to the United States. If
you are allowed to enter the U.S., the CBP official will determine the length of
your visit on the Arrival-Departure Record (Form I-94).

Notice that the length of stay permitted is determined upon entry.

I believe a visa with 10 year validity would be an exception and not usual.

MSPain

[AngelsLariat]

Doing a 90 day report for someone else is fine,

but the re-entry visa and extensions form do say have to be done in person.

That's why I was surprised by Dave's post. It's not often I find a post I basically agree with, offensive.

I have less than zero sympathy for those who voluntarily attend that particular zoo - but there are very few (legal) options for not attending (90 day reporting being one of the few). While I agree that paying someone 50 bucks a year to do that for you is a no-brainer, doing re-entry permits and/or extensions through an agent is not strictly legal. To berate people who don't use the 'agent' method of circumventing bs bureaucracy is crossing the line, somewhat.

Is $50 per year a realistic figure of what these visa assistance agencies charge? I was under the impression that it was much higher than that.

[jaideeguy]

I just signed up for the 90 dayX4 per year @ 1,000thb/year......good value for me because avoiding the cost of gas, time wasted and frustrations of 'the office' are shortening my already shorter life.

[fearless1]

Doing a 90 day report for someone else is fine,

but the re-entry visa and extensions form do say have to be done in person.

That's why I was surprised by Dave's post. It's not often I find a post I basically agree with, offensive.

I have less than zero sympathy for those who voluntarily attend that particular zoo - but there are very few (legal) options for not attending (90 day reporting being one of the few). While I agree that paying someone 50 bucks a year to do that for you is a no-brainer, doing re-entry permits and/or extensions through an agent is not strictly legal. To berate people who don't use the 'agent' method of circumventing bs bureaucracy is crossing the line, somewhat.

Is $50 per year a realistic figure of what these visa assistance agencies charge? I was under the impression that it was much higher than that.

Depends on what service you get. It's 5,500 baht for the retirement extension service. When you take that 5500 and add in the 1900 for the extension itself, and the 3800 for a multiple re-entry permit, and the cost for the income letter from the consulate, you are looking at more than 13000 baht. It's not prohibitively expensive, but it's not cheap either.