Fathers Rights In Los

[bhill06]

Hi TV

I'm sorry this post is so short but i've just had to re-write it due to pc problems

I'd be grateful if members could provide me with information or web links on fathers rights in thailand. I'm in a situation that i didn't imagine i'd ever be in, Im expecting a child with a thai lady, my gf tells me it's mine and from what she has said the dates tie in. I'm not married to the girl but we are engaged. I had fully intended to marry the girl but as a short time has passed it's become clear she has no interest in me or being in a loving relationship. I feel i've already made a mistake, with the pregnancy, i don't want to make another by marrying this girl when it seems so obviously doomed to fail from the off. I need to know what rights i have if i am the father. I'd be grateful for info on paternity tests, how early they can be taken(pre birth) and where they can be taken in los, info on cost would be helpful. My main concern and worst fear is that my baby could be sold. My gf casually remarked how an old friend returned to los with her farang husband with a view to buying a baby my gf told me this is quite common and not a problem

i'd be devastated if my baby were sold

i would appreciate any help/advice on the above

[GuestHouse]

I think you are going to have to sit this one out until the birth. You might like to start by enquiring at one of the international hospitals with respect to having DNA tests.

But I don't think you are going to get a pre-natal test. The old test for Down's syndrome (Amniosynthesis Test [sp]) used to be prenatal but came with significant risks and was only done when absolutely called for.

You are also going to have to think about what if the test proves it is your child - What then?

Edited March 11, 2006 by GuestHouse

[Boo]

I think you need to speak to a family lawyer asap. They will tell you what rights you have but I think you will have to be added as the father on the birth certificate.

If this girl is so mercenary, why not offer to buy the baby yourself (once born & paternity proved) & get her to sign it over legally in exchange for a one off payment, then get it a passport from your own country & take it home?

A really bad situation but at least you are thinking of the child first.

[Dragonman]

I think you need to speak to a family lawyer asap. They will tell you what rights you have but I think you will have to be added as the father on the birth certificate.

If this girl is so mercenary, why not offer to buy the baby yourself (once born & paternity proved) & get her to sign it over legally in exchange for a one off payment, then get it a passport from your own country & take it home?

A really bad situation but at least you are thinking of the child first.

Boo is right about seeing the lawyer! Family law regarding unmarried parents in Thailand is rare. Money resolves everything! Want to see the baby? How much are you going to contribute? Why not negotiate first to see what sort of contract she will agree to? Will she agree to an intrusive pre birth DNA test with the attached risks? Earliest possible 10 weeks, but 14 weeks for Amnio.

[astral]

I second the lawyer approach.

From my experience, children tend to stay with the mother where there is

a split in Thai family, but this is not an absolute rule.

Edited March 12, 2006 by astral

[thaigene2]

I was once told that father's have sole custody rights. But I'd also suggest you ask a lawyer. The other issue to consider is that as a foreigner (you are right?), these laws may not apply to you (discriminate in favour of the Thai national - the mother).

It sounds like you want to become Mister Mom, is that the idea? You really need to talk to a lawyer..

[ColPyat]

That definately is a case for a family lawyer. If your worries about selling the kid have a base, then i would maybe also get a reputable NGO working in this field involved.

Otherwise that can easily slip beyond a stage where you can do much.

Depending on the situation, what you can also do is negotiating a certain amount of money with the girl to have sole custody on the kid, and bring it up yourself.

But you need professional advice, not just ask people on an internet forum on their opinions.

[Nawty]

Good on you Bhill.

If you go the road of keeping the child yourself, you will never regret it. Also if you live in Thailand, there is no better place for a single dad to raise a child. You will be able to find a nanny and a maid to help with all the problems and it is rather cheap for this. Just find a good one.

As for fathers rights, you have none here as the farang father of a thai child. It is thai because it is born here and you are not married. Not being married raises more problems.

I think hospitals will only do a dna test after 6 months, I am 100% on this and may be getting it mixed up with something else. I also beleive they are around 12 to 15k baht and have to be done at one of the Thai hospitals. You can arrange to get it done through any hospital, like Bumrungrad and they will simply take you on the day to the right hospital to have it done.

I also thought that both parents have to be there, or at least sign and agree to it.

For future referance, you do need both parents permission and signatures for a passport, only extenuating circumstances will allow you to get one without both parties and that is if it is the Thai side doing it.

It is imperitive that you get your name on the birth certificate, even if later it turns out to be not yours, you need to be on the certificate for all things in the future. Especially if you are making plans to be the only parent, it is critical for you to do this, especially as you are not married remember.

As someone said, it may be much much simpler to offer her some cash and get EVREYTHING signed immeditaley from her so as then nothing needs to be chased up in the future and then denied and problems caused.

Most single thai mums end up sending the child upcountry while they earn a living in bkk, that is if they cannot afford to keep it themselves. Offer her a better life and education for the child and if she is a half decent person, she will do it. Get it all done legally and then no problems in the future.

One thing on your side, if what she says is true about her friends wanting to buy a baby, she cannot or probably would not have the smarts or the cash to come up with the proper paperwork required for the other people to take thechild as their own. think about the paperwork required to get passports, birth certs etc etc.

She would need your permission for another family to adopt the child and for passports etc. So I would not be to worried about that.

She may just be making those noises to see what you might offer in return. Just try to be nice, sweet and understanding. Get your rights looked after, get the child and then screw her afterwards if you can.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Nawty

[Dragonman]

But you need professional advice, not just ask people on an internet forum on their opinions.

Whilst I have already advised to see a good family lawyer, do not think that by seeing a thai lawyer you will get better advice than on this forum, and at least it's free.

[ColPyat]

Whilst I have already advised to see a good family lawyer, do not think that by seeing a thai lawyer you will get better advice than on this forum, and at least it's free.

Excuse me, my Thai lawyer has given me excellent advice on numerous occasions. And my biggest problem with him is that he wants to keep giving me free advice, and i want to pay him for his time and effort.

Obviously my lawyer is not one of those rip off merchants specialised in translation services for love struck farang and their bargirls.

[coldcrush]

Hi TV

I'm sorry this post is so short but i've just had to re-write it due to pc problems

I'd be grateful if members could provide me with information or web links on fathers rights in thailand. I'm in a situation that i didn't imagine i'd ever be in, Im expecting a child with a thai lady, my gf tells me it's mine and from what she has said the dates tie in. I'm not married to the girl but we are engaged. I had fully intended to marry the girl but as a short time has passed it's become clear she has no interest in me or being in a loving relationship. I feel i've already made a mistake, with the pregnancy, i don't want to make another by marrying this girl when it seems so obviously doomed to fail from the off. I need to know what rights i have if i am the father. I'd be grateful for info on paternity tests, how early they can be taken(pre birth) and where they can be taken in los, info on cost would be helpful. My main concern and worst fear is that my baby could be sold. My gf casually remarked how an old friend returned to los with her farang husband with a view to buying a baby my gf told me this is quite common and not a problem

i'd be devastated if my baby were sold

i would appreciate any help/advice on the above

I am astonished at your post. I know you have a worry but for any lady to sell her child like cattle is just astonishing. To even talk to you like that she is SUNDAN...

I would try and ignore her outburst and selling a baby in thailand is not common practice, I would imagine she maybe scared of being left alone with a child. Maybe give her some support then her crazy outbursts may subside..

I only wish you luck and hope you have the chance to give your child the hope and future they need.

Edited March 12, 2006 by lopburiguy

[ColPyat]

and selling a baby in thailand is not common practice,

Really?

I think you should have a talk with the NGOs and relevant government institutions that deal exactly with this issue on a daily base. They might have a slightly different opinion.

Babys are sold or given away regularly here, very common. And very often getting the correct paperwork sorted is a major headache.

[gburns57au]

and selling a baby in thailand is not common practice,

Really?

I think you should have a talk with the NGOs and relevant government institutions that deal exactly with this issue on a daily base. They might have a slightly different opinion.

Babys are sold or given away regularly here, very common. And very often getting the correct paperwork sorted is a major headache.

It is not a common practise at all....by that I am not saying that it doesnt happen but it is not widespread or common. I would say that this is a scare tactic being employed by the girl to ensure ongoing support by the father.....emotional blackmail.

[coldcrush]

and selling a baby in thailand is not common practice,

Really?

I think you should have a talk with the NGOs and relevant government institutions that deal exactly with this issue on a daily base. They might have a slightly different opinion.

Babys are sold or given away regularly here, very common. And very often getting the correct paperwork sorted is a major headache.

Ok link me up to the facts? I think by giving a way a child you mean to a stranger... most the girls I know leave them with there father and mother in the village. Go on ColPyat scare more people into believing that thailand is a wicked place...

Roll up, Roll up thai babys 2 for a pound... Is that what you see is it?

I think you mean young girls turned into sex slaves yes, however babys sold, maybe you are right....link me up with your facts and then we are open to discussion..

[opothai]

you have had some good advise here and i would look to getting things sorted as soon as.

you do not say what country you are from, an interesting fact that some might not be aware of is that if you come from england and the dna test proves the child is yours she can go to the embassy and apply for maintenance, which has been granted in the past.

if she gets wind of this then going by her attitude i;m sure this could be open to abuse, using the child as a source of extra money while maybe not having the childs best interest at heart.

[Thai Chi]

I think you need to speak to a family lawyer asap. They will tell you what rights you have but I think you will have to be added as the father on the birth certificate.

If this girl is so mercenary, why not offer to buy the baby yourself (once born & paternity proved) & get her to sign it over legally in exchange for a one off payment, then get it a passport from your own country & take it home?

A really bad situation but at least you are thinking of the child first.

Some good advice in your post Boo, but refering to a child, born or unborn, as "IT" in any context, IMHO is not on And as a female, you should know better.

[Boo]

Unborn babies are commonly referred to as IT, as unless you know the sex of the child, IT is the only way to refer to IT. But thank for trying to teach me some net equittete but please don't be offended when I ignore IT.

[coldcrush]

Unborn babies are commonly referred to as IT, as unless you know the sex of the child, IT is the only way to refer to IT. But thank for trying to teach me some net equittete but please don't be offended when I ignore IT.

Tiger Tiger grrrrrr

The post I quite liked IT! lol

Edited March 12, 2006 by lopburiguy

[Dragonman]

Whilst I have already advised to see a good family lawyer, do not think that by seeing a thai lawyer you will get better advice than on this forum, and at least it's free.

Excuse me, my Thai lawyer has given me excellent advice on numerous occasions. And my biggest problem with him is that he wants to keep giving me free advice, and i want to pay him for his time and effort.

Obviously my lawyer is not one of those rip off merchants specialised in translation services for love struck farang and their bargirls.

Well I'm sure lots of people on here would be more than happy for you to put them in touch with your philanthropic thai lawyer. What the ability of lawyers has to do with "love struck farang and their bargirls" I don't know Nobody has claimed that the majority of thai lawyers are not competent, simply that you only need to read the many threads where people have not employed lawyers with such outstanding knowledge as yours.

With regard to your comments on baby trafficking, I also would like to know what NGO's consider this to be "common", or even a problem in Thailand, as I have yet to find any.

[ColPyat]

Ok link me up to the facts? I think by giving a way a child you mean to a stranger... most the girls I know leave them with there father and mother in the village. Go on ColPyat scare more people into believing that thailand is a wicked place...

Well, i always have the same sort of difficulties with people who think that Thailand is some sort of heavenly land of smile. Thailand can be a very "wicked" place, which is no wonder considering that Thailand is together with China at the top of countries in Asia with the largest gap between rich and poor.

Have one day a chat with people from places such as Father Joe's Human Development Center, and they might set you right about certain facts about the land of smile.

[Dragonman]

Ok link me up to the facts? I think by giving a way a child you mean to a stranger... most the girls I know leave them with there father and mother in the village. Go on ColPyat scare more people into believing that thailand is a wicked place...

Well, i always have the same sort of difficulties with people who think that Thailand is some sort of heavenly land of smile. Thailand can be a very "wicked" place, which is no wonder considering that Thailand is together with China at the top of countries in Asia with the largest gap between rich and poor.

Have one day a chat with people from places such as Father Joe's Human Development Center, and they might set you right about certain facts about the land of smile.

Question? Which Country in the industrialised world has the largest gap between rich and poor? Clue! It is also the wealthiest Country in the world.

[ColPyat]

Question? Which Country in the industrialised world has the largest gap between rich and poor? Clue! It is also the wealthiest Country in the world.

Well, if we are talking about the same country, it is also one of the countries with the highest murder rates in the world, especially gun related murders.

Not really what i would call the epitome of western civilastion...

[Stephen Cleary]

Unborn babies are commonly referred to as IT, as unless you know the sex of the child, IT is the only way to refer to IT. But thank for trying to teach me some net equittete but please don't be offended when I ignore IT.

An unborn baby may be commonly referred to as 'IT' but this isn't correct.

The proper English in this situation would be 'HE'.

[Jim 50]

Hi TV

I'm sorry this post is so short but i've just had to re-write it due to pc problems

I'd be grateful if members could provide me with information or web links on fathers rights in thailand. I'm in a situation that i didn't imagine i'd ever be in, Im expecting a child with a thai lady, my gf tells me it's mine and from what she has said the dates tie in. I'm not married to the girl but we are engaged. I had fully intended to marry the girl but as a short time has passed it's become clear she has no interest in me or being in a loving relationship. I feel i've already made a mistake, with the pregnancy, i don't want to make another by marrying this girl when it seems so obviously doomed to fail from the off. I need to know what rights i have if i am the father. I'd be grateful for info on paternity tests, how early they can be taken(pre birth) and where they can be taken in los, info on cost would be helpful. My main concern and worst fear is that my baby could be sold. My gf casually remarked how an old friend returned to los with her farang husband with a view to buying a baby my gf told me this is quite common and not a problem

i'd be devastated if my baby were sold

i would appreciate any help/advice on the above

For all practical purposes, basically no rights. Best thing you can do is act uninterested and hope for the best.

[Stephen Cleary]

For all practical purposes, basically no rights. Best thing you can do is act uninterested and hope for the best.

You have plenty of rights!

You need a lawyer of course, as advised already.

To have yourself recognized as the father etc..... you need DNA blah blah, as advised already.

Married to the mother of the child or NOT, contrary to rumour, the father has plenty of rights.

According to what you have written, it seems like the 'mother' ไม่ให้ความอบอุ่นต่อลูก ie....she is already failing in her duty as a mother to allow her child the proper support (fatherly). If you can prove, that 'neglects' the child you would win custody.

Thai mothers in this situation would usually leave the child in the arms of 'grandmother'. You would also win custody as this would reflect 'motherly' neglect.

ie..... the judge would decide that a child born outside of marriage or not would be best suited in the custody of father.

Other ways to win custody would be to prove for example:

The mother sleeps around a lot.

Then mother drinks too much.

etc......

Of course, you would have to prove you would be a decent father too!

Sod the advise of an expensive English speaking lawyer!

I am currently in a similar (but not the same!) situation. If you would care for more 'custody' advise send me a PM.

Fees? 20,000 - 100,000 baht depending (guess at around 50,000!)

Edited March 13, 2006 by stevesuphan

[Thai Chi]

Unborn babies are commonly referred to as IT, as unless you know the sex of the child, IT is the only way to refer to IT. But thank for trying to teach me some net equittete but please don't be offended when I ignore IT.

Its nothing to do with "net equittete" Boo. Its to do with politeness. Considering the definition of it is:

1 :IT that one -- used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing. ( Merriam-Webster

In most Western civilised countries, the use of the word It, when refering to a unborn baby is considered very rude. Hey, maybe I am just old fashioned. No offense taken

[gburns57au]

Unborn babies are commonly referred to as IT, as unless you know the sex of the child, IT is the only way to refer to IT. But thank for trying to teach me some net equittete but please don't be offended when I ignore IT.

Its nothing to do with "net equittete" Boo. Its to do with politeness. Considering the definition of it is:

1 :IT that one -- used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing. ( Merriam-Webster

In most Western civilised countries, the use of the word It, when refering to a unborn baby is considered very rude. Hey, maybe I am just old fashioned. No offense taken

Funny cos when I talk to a lady in the late stages of pregnancy, I usually ask if she knows what gender IT is....cos asking what gender HE is doesnt seem right......

[Thai Chi]

I think its was stevesuphan in post #23 that suggested

"An unborn baby may be commonly referred to as 'IT' but this isn't correct. The proper English in this situation would be 'HE'.

Not I Mr Burns

Personally, I think unborn babies should be refered to as "Baby" as in:

What name do you have for the Baby

When is the Baby due

Is the baby moving around a lot

Do you want a baby boy or girl

Have you got everything for the baby etc etc etc.

Certainly sounds better than It, in my opinion anyway

[Neeranam]

In Thailand it is OK to call a baby "it" until they are a few years old. It's actually ok too for a mother and father, and other relatives, to call their kids "it" in adulthood, especially in the NE.

[Stephen Cleary]

Further to Mr Burns comment, here:

HE is used to refer to a person whose gender is unknown or unspecified.

Definition - HE

Yes, it would be correct in it's form, to ask "Do you think he (the baby) will be a boy or a girl?"

Edited March 13, 2006 by stevesuphan