Fathers Rights In Los

[Thai Chi]

In Thailand it is OK to call a baby "it" until they are a few years old. It's actually ok too for a mother and father, and other relatives, to call their kids "it" in adulthood, especially in the NE.

Intresting comment Neeranam, considering that you have previously stated that you resent the use of the word Mun (it) Maybe its only when the word is directed at you that you dont like it

[Neeranam]

It(mun) can be a term of endearment, or it can be insulting, or rascist.

Reminds of a guy I know, when asked if his newborn daughter was healthy said, "she's perfect but she could have been a boy".

Edited March 13, 2006 by Neeranam

[chanchao]

Can we stop moving further and further off topic with this?

English is just a language and as long as we all understand each other that's good enough.

Next time anyone doesn't like anyone elses choice of words, spelling or grammar then write a PM, or if it's interesting enough, start a post on it in the language sub forum.

Quite obviously the only intention of Boo's post was to be helpful and provide information. Telling someone off like this is something I personally think is not very polite, or reserved for classroom debate.

Back to father issues in Thailand.

[Boo]

The issue isn't really how to refer to a baby though is IT In my family it is common to refer to an unborn as IT, all of my friends & their partners referred to their unborn kids as IT. Please don't take this off topic just because you have decided to take offense at something ridiculous. You consider it rude, others don't. End of story.

[damotuxie]

Sod the advise of an expensive English speaking lawyer!

I may be wrong but I believe westerers are procluded from familiy law in Thailand.

OP. It's a shame to see yourself in this predicament at a time when both yourself and your partner should be very happy. Too it is a shame you did not have the time to elaborate on your situation further. Some questions I ask myself when I read your post were, do you work in Thailand? What is your country of origin? and are you otherwise based in Thailand and able to stay until this situation ends or will you have to leave to return from where you came from.

It seems you would otherwise like to marry the mother of you child, wether this presently seems a bad choice, in terms of being granted custody of your child you maybe could be better off. Depending on your counrty of origin you may be able to apply for your child to become a citizen by decent, if thats possible you will need to be named on the birth certificate. I think these too actions are your primary concern. My daughter is approaching two years of age, she has never left Thailand yet she is an Australian citizen by decent and an Australian passport holder. These two things are to me something money just could not buy. If my wife were to die or be otherwise be unable to care for and raise my daughter or my wife and I ended our marriage then there is the possibility for me to bring my daughter home.

If your child was to leave the country then that child would need a passport. That would require a birth certificate and if your name is on that birth certificate the only way that child will be granted a Thai passport is if both parents give thier athorisation(applicants under 20). This poses a further problem, If your child was to return with you to you home country then you would need the mothers permission and likewise if you were to get your child citizenship by decent of your home country you would need the mothers permission for that child to be granted a passport from your home country. The days of children travelling on thier parents passports are ending, and even if you child were to travel out of the country on another persons passport there would need to some form of notrised approval.

Unless your partner has her stuff together in a big way, enough to fraud everything then she is pissing in the wind. Its one thing to sell a baby another to sell a human entity.

My advice to you would concentrate at all costs on getting your name on that birth certificate. Talk to your embassy about your childs options in respect to citizenship ect, and whilst you are there seek a list of contacts in family law.

Lie to your partner, make things sweet. Do anything you can to get her back in your life even if you have no care for her, just do it long enough to get your name on that certificate. If I were in your situation I would be bluffing her up with b/s like-in my country when lady have baby government can give to her 200K thb just for have baby but have to have papa is come from ???? then when have paper for baby come out then can take to embassy and the govenment give money. I don't know how smart you partner is but usually money is a fantastic motivator with Thai women, you'd be surprised.

chok di-damo.

[Nawty]

Yes, take the advice that you as an unproven perhaps, certainly unmarried possible father of this child has all the rights you would back home....giggle giggle chuckle chuckle.

As a person who is unmarried, me and has 2 kids, beleive me when you are told you have little rights 'automatically' you can go and fight for them sure, but as in the west you do 'automatically' have far more rights than you will have here.

To get my daughter recognised as MY child, even though I am on the birth certificate and all that crap. I had to take my daughter to court and have her recognsied/adopted as mine. Now she is recognised as mine. But she was not AT ALL prior to this.

My other child is another story.

Try listening to reason from a Thai lawyer or worse still, an immigration officer when they tell you your child is not your child...'in this country'.

Make sure you are clear on that I am saying this is because I am NOT married to my wife. If I had been legally married, I would not have had these problems.

So some may say, just marry her. Well my other wives in several other countries may object.

The cost of going to court and getting it legally done was 60k baht from memory. if you want a recommendation from my Thai lawyer who did it for me, let me know. But I would be a little bit apprehensive to intro you to this lawyer if things are not kosha. For example, is the mother a typical pattaya bg type, or a tad more refined and educated.

[Stephen Cleary]

The cost of going to court and getting it legally done was 60k baht from memory. if you want a recommendation from my Thai lawyer who did it for me, let me know. But I would be a little bit apprehensive to intro you to this lawyer if things are not kosha. For example, is the mother a typical pattaya bg type, or a tad more refined and educated.

Nawty's story more or less backs up what i mentioned earlier.

The quote above is also good insight.

Any Thai judge is going to suspect that a Thai mother who doesn't wish her child to be with/know her father (especially a Farang one) to be of 'the shadier type' ie....'she has a less than respectable background'. This is where your advantage as a Farang can come into play! (Who would make the better parent custody argument)

ie......if the mother of your child doesn't allow you access etc.... it would be easy to have the mother represented in a bad light in a court of law.

It hasnt been mentioned yet, but the process can be made much easier if you are working/residing in Thailand.

Edited March 13, 2006 by stevesuphan

[Thai Chi]

The issue isn't really how to refer to a baby though is IT In my family it is common to refer to an unborn as IT, all of my friends & their partners referred to their unborn kids as IT. Please don't take this off topic just because you have decided to take offense at something ridiculous. You consider it rude, others don't. End of story.

Having been berated by not one, but two "super moderators" I will decline from further comment. Except.

I agree that "English is just a language and as long as we all understand each other that's good enough" but at the same time I loathe the use of the word "it" when refering to an unborn baby.

Maybe its my upbringing, maybe its my strong maternal instincts towards children, whatever the reason, I will never respect anyone that calls anyone an "it"

Now back on topic.

[Neeranam]

Maybe its my upbringing, maybe its my strong maternal instincts towards children, whatever the reason, I will never respect anyone that calls anyone an "it"

I thought you were a bloke!

To the OP - do you really want to have a baby with this woman? Why did she have to tell you it was yours, sorry HE was yours, was she sleeping around?. Have you thought of telling her where to go? Have you thought of getting an abortion? Don't let her emotionally blackmail you. She probably isn't even pregnant. This goes on a lot in Thailand you know!!

This is one of the oldest tricksin the book - if she is pregnant, get a blood test, get a lawyer, or do a runner.

Edited March 13, 2006 by Neeranam

[Boo]

Fortunatley I don't need your respect. I have enough friends who would find your objections laughable, as I do

[Thai Chi]

Maybe its my upbringing, maybe its my strong maternal instincts towards children, whatever the reason, I will never respect anyone that calls anyone an "it"

I thought you were a bloke!

Hmmm, can a man not have maternal feelings / instincts? Maybe I am just a little bit more sensitive than your average bloke when it comes to children

[Thai Chi]

Fortunatley I don't need your respect. I have enough friends who would find your objections laughable, as I do

Well that would have been a quick poll of your "friends". Did you actually email and or telephone them all up and ask them "would you refer to your unborn baby as an it"?? Considering your condescending attitude, (and the fact you are a moderator) I suggest your are aware that everyone has their own opinion about each and every subject that is brought up here. You have yours and I have mine. It is obvious we will never agree on this one, and I never gave you the respect to deny in the first place.

Now maybe we can get back on topic

[Boo]

hmm I think you should probaly read your initial post which started this in the first place if you want to talk condesending. You created an issue that wasn't there. Yes, my friends all have kids & they all referred to their unborns as IT. No poll required.

FYI you keep taking it off topic by not being able to accept that I think it is acceptable to refer to an unborn child as IT. Why it is any of your business how I refer to IT I still haven't figured out! I don't question why you refer to IT as she/he or baby so don't see why you have to patronise me for my choice of address.

Back on topic.

[bina]

just out of curiousity, maybe should be a new topic but...

if i, as an american passport holder, living now in israel (w/israeli passport also) get pregnant by thai boyfriend (he wants me to.... ), and not married to him (visa law problems here), what would baby's status be in thailand if i were to eventually move to thailand to marry this thai man?? would my partner have to 'adopt' the baby? etc....

(or could we register here in thai embassy in israel since israel doesnt recognize civil marriages anyway, and refuses anyone holding a work visa (foreign worker) to marry an israeli citizen (for migrant workers. i doubt this applys to some hi tech foreign computer geeks... )

just asking, im pretty old to have a baby (and still have young teen kids here which is why im not in thailand now...)but just checking out various things....

[Neeranam]

Should be new topic Bina, in the visa section.

[Thai Chi]

hmm I think you should probaly read your initial post which started this in the first place if you want to talk condesending. You created an issue that wasn't there. Yes, my friends all have kids & they all referred to their unborns as IT. No poll required.

FYI you keep taking it off topic by not being able to accept that I think it is acceptable to refer to an unborn child as IT. Why it is any of your business how I refer to IT I still haven't figured out! I don't question why you refer to IT as she/he or baby so don't see why you have to patronise me for my choice of address.

Back on topic.

Ok already. My Father once told me "never argue with a woman, you will never win" I suppose I should have taken His advice a couple of post ago

We obviously agree to disagree on this one Boo. Thats our God given rights I reckon. This little parley has not changed the world, but at least we both know where we stand on this

I actually admire people that "stick to their guns" as well as people that know when to call it quits

[bina]

edited out and moved neearnam.....

[bhill06]

thanks for all the replies, thoughts and information

i'll pm a couple of members for some extra info-i hope u don't mind

it's a shame that there was so many posts to do with "it"

if this is my child, then at this stage i have no problem with the baby being referred to as "it" i.e gender-i do it myself

it's a different story once the child's born

i understand the posts though..children bring out our protective sides

i'm aware this is a common scam (fake pegnancy) i'll find out soon enough when i'm over again. I'll be in los for at least a year-i wanted to take care of the girl and experience everything-if i'm the father this'll be my first child .

I have many reasons to suspect things are happening that i'm not being told about...i'm from the uk btw

this may be a small thing but it's one of many that's getting to me-the girl never phones or texts me- i imagine if the girl was pregnant and the child was mine then i would be in her thoughts constantly(everytime she loked at the lump/baby)

this makes me think she is either lying about the pregnancy, the father(person in her thoughts) is some1 else or something else is going on

i'm completely stressed out with it all, i'll be in los soon and hopefully i'll find out more.....

appreciate more info,comments,advice

[Nawtilus]

How pregnant is she, why don't you get someone to check up on her and find out.

[Bangkokjay]

Hi sorry to hear about your situation, but at least you are thinking about all your options.

A few points i think that are worth considering.

1) If you have doubts as to the child being yours i would think about the consequences of this a bit more even though its hard to do. But our instincts are usually right that’s why we have them.

2) If this is so and it is several months before you can do a DNA test what would you do take care of the baby still or move on?

I guess either way you would still be able to do so. So if you have your name on the birth cert and even married if the child is yours then great you will have all the rights available to you. If not and your name is on the birth cert i am sure you would have grounds for a divorce if the child wasn't yours. Hence you could walk away.

3) possibly think about moving back to your home country with your girlfriend for the childs birth then your rights would be a lot better for you and if after a few months you find out the child is yours but the relationship is not going to work out i feel it would be easier for you to offer her a cash settlement for you to have sole custody of the child and her return to Thailand. You will then have the option of returning to Thailand or staying in your home country once she has left.

Again if you are worried if the child is yours or not don't take the baby on yourself until you are sure you are the father. Most thai/ western babys look mostly western so i think you would be able to have a good idea if the baby is thai/western or full thai at birth

Some thai girls dont use the phone much or send texts as it cost's them so much compared to phoning in thailand. So this alone i wouldn't worry about to much i would be more concerned if she never answered many times when you call her. If you are still in blighty then poss get in touch with a private investigator not that they are my cup of tea but you may find out something that will help in your situation.

My Mrs is pregnant at the moment but we have lived together for 1 1/2 years so things are ok we know each other etc if you haven’t lived with her yet you may find once you stay here for a while the relationship will improve. I am sure we all agree that thais dont fall in love or show affection as soon in a relationship as westerners do but in time it grows and these feelings become mutual

So best of luck and time will tell

Jay