Chiang Mai Steps Up Law Enforcement To Reduce Burning.

[Considered Opinion]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

No. They are started by dickh3ads...

[Considered Opinion]

I find this funny. The day this gets published is the day that I see the worse air quality in Chiang Mai. And a big fire was burning here: http://goo.gl/maps/GPke8 . You can see the lovely view we had for a few hours yesterday.

One assumes that is a cremation....

[LeeThayer]

Chiang Mai, Hub of Haze

[webfact]

UPDATE

AIR QUALITY
Haze in 9 northern provinces reaches critical stage
JANJIRA PONGRAI,
PRAPAPORN KREUNGEW,
KANNIKA WIJITSAKOLKAN
THE NATION



CHIANG MAI: -- As the haze from outdoor burning worsened in the nine upper northern provinces, despite the January 21 Cabinet's 100-day resolution banning burning until April 30, representatives of Karen hill tribes in Chiang Mai and Lampang provinces filed a complaint with the National Human Rights Commission's (NHRC) sub-panel on land and forest, claiming the ban violated their rights.

Mae Hong Son, one of the nine provinces, has already broken this year's record with dust particles reaching 428 micrograms per cubic metre. Chiang Mai follows, with about 200 micrograms per cubic metre - well above the maximum safety standard set at 120 micrograms.

NHRC sub-panel chairman Niran Pitakwatchara, who recently invited relevant agencies and plaintiffs to discuss the ban's alleged "human rights violations", said it was affecting the traditional practice of crop rotation among Karen communities, and went against the government's August 3, 2010 Cabinet resolution aimed at reviving the Karen way of life. Niran said once the sub-panel had concluded its findings, it would forward its recommendations to Deputy Prime Minster Plodprasop Suraswadi and the governors of the nine northern provinces.

Jongjit Neeranartmethikul, a senior official of the Pollution Control Department, said the high concentration of fine dust in Mae Hong Son and Chiang Mai was the result of forest fires and the clearing of farmland in Thailand, as well as in the border regions of Laos and Myanmar. She said the Foreign Affairs Ministry would ask neighbouring countries to reduce their outdoor burning. Thailand will meet Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar and Cambodia from March 30-31, to discuss preventative measures aimed at further reducing outdoor burning, she added.

Deputy governor of Chiang Mai Adisorn Kamnerdsiri said the problem had reached a critical stage, prompting him to meet with the heads of 25 districts to find a solution. "At the provincial hall, the level of dust particles is 185 micrograms per cubic metre, while at Yupparat School, the level is 210. The poor air quality is affecting Chiang Mai people."

District authorities were have been ordered to strengthen screening and also check people visiting forested areas to prevent any fire building. Anyone found starting fires would be arrested, the deputy governor added.

From February 18 and March 20, there were 378 bush fires in 23 districts, damaging 4,411.5 rai of land. Most of the fires occurred in Chiang Dao district (63 times), followed by Mae On district (55 times). A total of 36,160 people have been affected by the haze since February 1, said the governor.

In Lamphun, the dust concentration reached 157 micrograms per cubic metre yesterday, reducing visibility on highway number 106 (Lamphun-Pa Sang) to two kilometres. The concentration of fine dust in Lamphun has exceeded safety levels for five consecutive days and residents have complained of eye and nose irritations.

In Uthai Thani's Lan Sak district, sugarcane plantation harvester Lampong Buacheun from Tambol Rabum, agreed to pay Bt100,000 compensation for reforestation, after his workers set fires that spread and damaged 50 rai of the Khao Hin Lek Fai Community forest - nurtured by villagers for more than two decades.


-- The Nation 2013-03-22

[ricardofel]

The government officials are a bunch of chickens with their heads chopped off running around yelling...."the air's pollutted"..."the air's pollutted"! Let's ask for donations from the public and businesses (you did read about that-right?) and ask for fire extinguishers to be donated. They have even opened up a bank account for people to donate, over 500,000 baht 2 weeks ago.

It's not just burning, year round big trucks, small trucks & others spew black carcinogenic smoke that we all breathe-that pollutes the air! Do they do anything about it? NO! The wats burn garbage on a daiy basis-do they do anything about it? NO! Villagers burn on a daily basis-do they do anything about it? NO!

And why not....becasue they are incompetent, inept and downright stupid officials!

[a99az]

We are off too, the whole family is going. My youngest is choked up like me and coughing up nasty stuff.

[MILT]

It's bad mmmmmmmmkay! There is some policing happening because I have been fined for one of my staff burning rice stubble. (a lot of rice stubble) What I'm saying is that it is easy to go after business's and villages. The fire's that takes time and energy to squash are out in the jungle. Some are started near the roads but most are deep in the hills. It would take a mass coordination and money to systematically address every fire. It would be up to the village leaders and volunteers to actually enforce the burning ban. What to do? In my village the head man get's on the village PA and says no burning and that a fine would be exacted on the offenders. Then later that day he is out in his back yard burning garbage (plastic) and leaves. This is not an easy fix. I believe it comes down to people enforcing the laws on their neighbors, volunteer's to keep burning from happening. Grass roots involvement is the key. Forget the Government! They rarely get anything right.

[spidermike007]

Not second world. Third world, positively, and definitely. The one area that sets Thailand apart from the second world is the legal system, the police, the judiciary, and the govt. In a second world country, there is an effective judiciary. Thailland does not have one, as there is very, very little here in the way of an effective judiciary.

Some examples:

1. Thailand is one of the few countries in Asia that is virtually free of a war on corruption. Virtually nothing of consequence of being done to prosecute and jail corrupt politicians, or police officials. Remember the transport minister who was caught with 2,000,000,000 baht (yes, 2 billion!) cash in his living room? Did he go to prison? No. Was he even arrested? No.

2. Lack of a deterrent factor. Why do the police, tuk tuk, taxi drivers, etc behave like they do? No consequences to their hooliganism. When is the last time a policeman was tried and convicted on corruption charges? When was the last time a taxi driver lost his car, due to refusing to use his meter in the nearly lawless zones of Phuket or Samui, especially.

3. Crony politics. In second world countries politicians are appointed based on qualifications. Here, they are appointed based on who they know, and how much assistance they gave to the elected PM. Not an effective way to run a country. Not a sign of progress.

4. Education. A second world country has an effective educational system. Most international studies place Thailand very low on that scale. Little seems to be done to improve that. Are the elite trying to keep the masses dumbed down? What other explanations are there for such a poor system? Why are most Thais who study English unable to speak much English? Why can't they add in their head? How can they compete with their neighbors who are putting alot to time, effort and money into improving their educational systems? Will the country continue to lose their place in the world due to this lack of effort?

5. Infrastructure. Laos has 3G throughout the country. I have traveled to many areas of Bangkok that still do not have it. While many places are installing 4G systems, Thailand is still sorting through this, and is years behind the curve. They just installed a new electric cable from the mainland to Samui. They have not completed paving of the main road on the island. This kind of amateur hour politics is reminiscent of the third world.

6. Ineffective government. One of the primary issues with Thailand, is the ability to follow thought on the initiatives of previous administrations. How do you grow a country if you cannot maintain the momentum from one administration to the next? How do you continue progress? That is a third world mentality.

7. Ineffective regulation of policy. The parliament seems to be quite busy creating law, on a daily basis. But, once this law is created the govt. seems to have little ability to implement it. Much is being made of the upcoming ASEAN summit and Thailand's leadership of it. Well, they may be unqualified to do so. During the 6th ASEAN summit Thailand agreed to participate in a campaign that allowed the free transfer of all alcoholic beverages manufactured throughout all of the ASEAN nations, within the region. They signed the pact, and it went into effect as of Jan. 1st, 2011. How much Laotian, Vietnamese, I

Indonesian, and Burmese beer have you seen on your supermarket shelf lately? It is quite obvious someone bought off a senator, who then prevented the implementation of this policy to this day. So, how do you lead an organization, who's very policy you ignore daily? Why is the govt. so inept at enforcing these charters that it signs? Why don't they care? Why wasn't the senator who prevented the implementation of this policy arrested, jailed and his impressive assets seized? How very third world of them.

8. Foor safety. The lack of a health safety campaign, an effective health department, that inspects restaurants, supermarkets, distribution chains, etc, prevents the country moving forward to improve its health standards.

9. Pollution and the environment. While the Philippines, and some other countries in ASEAN are making strides in eliminating the use of plastic boxes and bags, Thailand is doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing is being done to curb the use of plastic. How about a littering campaign? In the US littering really stopped after a fine of $1,000 was imposed on the highways. Imagine the reaction of the average Thai, if they were fined 30,000 baht for throwing a plastic bag out the window? Entire regions of Issan have no trash pickup! So, they either bury their trash, burn it, or dump it. In the case of waste, the sanitary standards are at the bottom of the third world. Though the average Thai person is very conscious about keeping their environment clean, the govt. is doing little. In Koh Samui alot of toilet waste is piped directly into the sea. So is alot of the sewer runoff. After all these years, not one sewer plant has been built to treat waste water. Not one. Is that a result of apathy? Here is a multi billion dollar tourist island, where all of the reefs have been completely destroyed due to govt. apathy and negligence. And the water continues to be fouled to this day. Tests show a frightening level of bacteria in the water, in the local beaches. The local mayor refuses to establish a litter collecting campaign on the beaches, despite years of pressure to do so. He has been effective in improving the roads, and there is slow progress in improving the place, but this kind of work should have been done a decade ago.

I could go on and one filling up many pages with this kind of detail. I could spend a week listing all of the things that are not happening here. But you get the point. Let us call a spade a spade. Thailand is definitely not second world. They have accomplished alot, in very little time. Alot of what they have done is impressive. But, so many details have been cast aside. Much attention needs to be paid to the details, before Thailand can be awarded second world status.

[NoshowJones]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

God grow up man

If you think Tomyumchai was serious, maybe you should grow up.

[Mitker]

Not second world. Third world, positively, and definitely. The one area that sets Thailand apart from the second world is the legal system, the police, the judiciary, and the govt. In a second world country, there is an effective judiciary. Thailland does not have one, as there is very, very little here in the way of an effective judiciary.

Some examples:

1. Thailand is one of the few countries in Asia that is virtually free of a war on corruption. Virtually nothing of consequence of being done to prosecute and jail corrupt politicians, or police officials. Remember the transport minister who was caught with 2,000,000,000 baht (yes, 2 billion!) cash in his living room? Did he go to prison? No. Was he even arrested? No.

2. Lack of a deterrent factor. Why do the police, tuk tuk, taxi drivers, etc behave like they do? No consequences to their hooliganism. When is the last time a policeman was tried and convicted on corruption charges? When was the last time a taxi driver lost his car, due to refusing to use his meter in the nearly lawless zones of Phuket or Samui, especially.

3. Crony politics. In second world countries politicians are appointed based on qualifications. Here, they are appointed based on who they know, and how much assistance they gave to the elected PM. Not an effective way to run a country. Not a sign of progress.

4. Education. A second world country has an effective educational system. Most international studies place Thailand very low on that scale. Little seems to be done to improve that. Are the elite trying to keep the masses dumbed down? What other explanations are there for such a poor system? Why are most Thais who study English unable to speak much English? Why can't they add in their head? How can they compete with their neighbors who are putting alot to time, effort and money into improving their educational systems? Will the country continue to lose their place in the world due to this lack of effort?

5. Infrastructure. Laos has 3G throughout the country. I have traveled to many areas of Bangkok that still do not have it. While many places are installing 4G systems, Thailand is still sorting through this, and is years behind the curve. They just installed a new electric cable from the mainland to Samui. They have not completed paving of the main road on the island. This kind of amateur hour politics is reminiscent of the third world.

6. Ineffective government. One of the primary issues with Thailand, is the ability to follow thought on the initiatives of previous administrations. How do you grow a country if you cannot maintain the momentum from one administration to the next? How do you continue progress? That is a third world mentality.

7. Ineffective regulation of policy. The parliament seems to be quite busy creating law, on a daily basis. But, once this law is created the govt. seems to have little ability to implement it. Much is being made of the upcoming ASEAN summit and Thailand's leadership of it. Well, they may be unqualified to do so. During the 6th ASEAN summit Thailand agreed to participate in a campaign that allowed the free transfer of all alcoholic beverages manufactured throughout all of the ASEAN nations, within the region. They signed the pact, and it went into effect as of Jan. 1st, 2011. How much Laotian, Vietnamese, I

Indonesian, and Burmese beer have you seen on your supermarket shelf lately? It is quite obvious someone bought off a senator, who then prevented the implementation of this policy to this day. So, how do you lead an organization, who's very policy you ignore daily? Why is the govt. so inept at enforcing these charters that it signs? Why don't they care? Why wasn't the senator who prevented the implementation of this policy arrested, jailed and his impressive assets seized? How very third world of them.

8. Foor safety. The lack of a health safety campaign, an effective health department, that inspects restaurants, supermarkets, distribution chains, etc, prevents the country moving forward to improve its health standards.

9. Pollution and the environment. While the Philippines, and some other countries in ASEAN are making strides in eliminating the use of plastic boxes and bags, Thailand is doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing is being done to curb the use of plastic. How about a littering campaign? In the US littering really stopped after a fine of $1,000 was imposed on the highways. Imagine the reaction of the average Thai, if they were fined 30,000 baht for throwing a plastic bag out the window? Entire regions of Issan have no trash pickup! So, they either bury their trash, burn it, or dump it. In the case of waste, the sanitary standards are at the bottom of the third world. Though the average Thai person is very conscious about keeping their environment clean, the govt. is doing little. In Koh Samui alot of toilet waste is piped directly into the sea. So is alot of the sewer runoff. After all these years, not one sewer plant has been built to treat waste water. Not one. Is that a result of apathy? Here is a multi billion dollar tourist island, where all of the reefs have been completely destroyed due to govt. apathy and negligence. And the water continues to be fouled to this day. Tests show a frightening level of bacteria in the water, in the local beaches. The local mayor refuses to establish a litter collecting campaign on the beaches, despite years of pressure to do so. He has been effective in improving the roads, and there is slow progress in improving the place, but this kind of work should have been done a decade ago.

I could go on and one filling up many pages with this kind of detail. I could spend a week listing all of the things that are not happening here. But you get the point. Let us call a spade a spade. Thailand is definitely not second world. They have accomplished alot, in very little time. Alot of what they have done is impressive. But, so many details have been cast aside. Much attention needs to be paid to the details, before Thailand can be awarded second world status.

Agreed totally except: these are not details.

Education, politic ethics, health... are fundamental issues

[scotbeve]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

road side fires tend to be started by govt employees

ME,

I've seen some started by some of the hilltribe folk.

[HaleySabai]

In some strange way, all that is "wrong" with Thailand is what's "right" about it...... meaning that in a 1st-world country,obsession with rules and regulations at every turn, is exactly the liberating reason why I live in Thailand.

Yes, of course one would like to see some focus on fundamental issues for the future sake of the country and people, but as a farang living in a parallel-reality to that dynamic,I would say,and in quoting the ex-BKK post - icon,Trinks page........"I don't give a Hoot"!

[cup-O-coffee]

Maybe if the locals had complained earlier that the smog was stealing their jobs, this would have been dealt with by now with a proper crackdown.

[lazeeboy]

This only my second year in chiang mai and this year is by far worst than last year .last year no health problems this year itchy eyes and real bad sore throat how they can say last year was worse i dont know or is it sansai thats worse this year

[Bastiat]

This is not a law enforcement issue . It is one of education.

However, like most matters involving any government,anywhere it will take a major disaster before serious action is taken.

Teleconference....very encouraging!

[lovetotravel]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

No. They are started by dickh3ads...

I just did 2,000km around Issan. I was shocked at how much was burned. Most were small fires, but they add up.

I think a bunch of the burn spots near the road are from cigarettes. These were spots that were not farmed, in the middle of nowhere, and usually were just 10-20M deep by 20-30M or so. But lots of them.

[lovetotravel]

Pic from today's walk. Glad I live by the beach! Sorry guys. Don't mean to be rude.

[tomyumchai]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

God grow up man

what? it was a straight forward question. ive ridden through dozens of roadside fires and have not seen anyone else in the area starting them so i asked how they are started. if you cant give me a civil reply then shut the <deleted> up or go run and tell a mod.

[tomyumchai]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

God grow up man

what? it was a straight forward question. ive ridden through dozens of roadside fires and have not seen anyone else in the area starting them so i asked how they are started. if you cant give me a civil reply then shut the <deleted> up or go run and tell a mod.

[kimamey]

The fires are deliberately started by locals in a serial manner. A week after an area is burned many saleable products are created, bamboo shoots, certain mushrooms that react to the fire (this occurs in the Western US also where edible morel mushrooms fruit after a fire) and other herbaceaous products. So if you burn an area every three or four days, in a week or two you will find a bounty of edible and saleable products. Locals start the fires and then continue to start them at intervals that suit their harvest schedule.

I do not believe that in the hot-dry, rainless, season, anything is going to sprout up a week after an area is burned ! And, the idea that if you burn the same area every three or four days you will produce a "bounty" in a few weeks, is truly absurd. The only "bounty" you'll get is probably being bludgeoned by your wife, and/or neighbors, for wasting your time, matches, and whatever flammable (triple-distilled lao khao ?), trying to burn ashes.

The higher-altitude burning (often by non-Thai ethnic peoples, i.e., "hill tribes") is done to produce mushrooms which are harvested after, or in the late, rainy season. The mushrooms are a "cash crop," quite important to those higher-altitude groups that are often living much of the year in "subsistence mode:" if, they have stopped growing opium.

Were you, by any chance, today: somewhere in Lanna, in direct sun, without a hat on for many hours, while breathing deeply, and, perhaps unwittingly dehydrated ?

That could account for these delusions.

~o:37;

It says burn an area but I don't think it means the same area.

[kimamey]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

God grow up man

what? it was a straight forward question. ive ridden through dozens of roadside fires and have not seen anyone else in the area starting them so i asked how they are started. if you cant give me a civil reply then shut the <deleted> up or go run and tell a mod.

I'm not sure this was meant to be serious and it's possible that ableguy thought your post was sarcastic. It's easy to get the wrong impression on here.

[toysupra80]

Not second world. Third world, positively, and definitely. The one area that sets Thailand apart from the second world is the legal system, the police, the judiciary, and the govt. In a second world country, there is an effective judiciary. Thailland does not have one, as there is very, very little here in the way of an effective judiciary.

Some examples:

1. Thailand is one of the few countries in Asia that is virtually free of a war on corruption. Virtually nothing of consequence of being done to prosecute and jail corrupt politicians, or police officials. Remember the transport minister who was caught with 2,000,000,000 baht (yes, 2 billion!) cash in his living room? Did he go to prison? No. Was he even arrested? No.

2. Lack of a deterrent factor. Why do the police, tuk tuk, taxi drivers, etc behave like they do? No consequences to their hooliganism. When is the last time a policeman was tried and convicted on corruption charges? When was the last time a taxi driver lost his car, due to refusing to use his meter in the nearly lawless zones of Phuket or Samui, especially.

3. Crony politics. In second world countries politicians are appointed based on qualifications. Here, they are appointed based on who they know, and how much assistance they gave to the elected PM. Not an effective way to run a country. Not a sign of progress.

4. Education. A second world country has an effective educational system. Most international studies place Thailand very low on that scale. Little seems to be done to improve that. Are the elite trying to keep the masses dumbed down? What other explanations are there for such a poor system? Why are most Thais who study English unable to speak much English? Why can't they add in their head? How can they compete with their neighbors who are putting alot to time, effort and money into improving their educational systems? Will the country continue to lose their place in the world due to this lack of effort?

5. Infrastructure. Laos has 3G throughout the country. I have traveled to many areas of Bangkok that still do not have it. While many places are installing 4G systems, Thailand is still sorting through this, and is years behind the curve. They just installed a new electric cable from the mainland to Samui. They have not completed paving of the main road on the island. This kind of amateur hour politics is reminiscent of the third world.

6. Ineffective government. One of the primary issues with Thailand, is the ability to follow thought on the initiatives of previous administrations. How do you grow a country if you cannot maintain the momentum from one administration to the next? How do you continue progress? That is a third world mentality.

7. Ineffective regulation of policy. The parliament seems to be quite busy creating law, on a daily basis. But, once this law is created the govt. seems to have little ability to implement it. Much is being made of the upcoming ASEAN summit and Thailand's leadership of it. Well, they may be unqualified to do so. During the 6th ASEAN summit Thailand agreed to participate in a campaign that allowed the free transfer of all alcoholic beverages manufactured throughout all of the ASEAN nations, within the region. They signed the pact, and it went into effect as of Jan. 1st, 2011. How much Laotian, Vietnamese, I

Indonesian, and Burmese beer have you seen on your supermarket shelf lately? It is quite obvious someone bought off a senator, who then prevented the implementation of this policy to this day. So, how do you lead an organization, who's very policy you ignore daily? Why is the govt. so inept at enforcing these charters that it signs? Why don't they care? Why wasn't the senator who prevented the implementation of this policy arrested, jailed and his impressive assets seized? How very third world of them.

8. Foor safety. The lack of a health safety campaign, an effective health department, that inspects restaurants, supermarkets, distribution chains, etc, prevents the country moving forward to improve its health standards.

9. Pollution and the environment. While the Philippines, and some other countries in ASEAN are making strides in eliminating the use of plastic boxes and bags, Thailand is doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing is being done to curb the use of plastic. How about a littering campaign? In the US littering really stopped after a fine of $1,000 was imposed on the highways. Imagine the reaction of the average Thai, if they were fined 30,000 baht for throwing a plastic bag out the window? Entire regions of Issan have no trash pickup! So, they either bury their trash, burn it, or dump it. In the case of waste, the sanitary standards are at the bottom of the third world. Though the average Thai person is very conscious about keeping their environment clean, the govt. is doing little. In Koh Samui alot of toilet waste is piped directly into the sea. So is alot of the sewer runoff. After all these years, not one sewer plant has been built to treat waste water. Not one. Is that a result of apathy? Here is a multi billion dollar tourist island, where all of the reefs have been completely destroyed due to govt. apathy and negligence. And the water continues to be fouled to this day. Tests show a frightening level of bacteria in the water, in the local beaches. The local mayor refuses to establish a litter collecting campaign on the beaches, despite years of pressure to do so. He has been effective in improving the roads, and there is slow progress in improving the place, but this kind of work should have been done a decade ago.

I could go on and one filling up many pages with this kind of detail. I could spend a week listing all of the things that are not happening here. But you get the point. Let us call a spade a spade. Thailand is definitely not second world. They have accomplished alot, in very little time. Alot of what they have done is impressive. But, so many details have been cast aside. Much attention needs to be paid to the details, before Thailand can be awarded second world status.

All of the above are reasons why I'm moving to Malaysia.

[chiang mai]

Not second world. Third world, positively, and definitely. The one area that sets Thailand apart from the second world is the legal system, the police, the judiciary, and the govt. In a second world country, there is an effective judiciary. Thailland does not have one, as there is very, very little here in the way of an effective judiciary.

Some examples:

1. Thailand is one of the few countries in Asia that is virtually free of a war on corruption. Virtually nothing of consequence of being done to prosecute and jail corrupt politicians, or police officials. Remember the transport minister who was caught with 2,000,000,000 baht (yes, 2 billion!) cash in his living room? Did he go to prison? No. Was he even arrested? No.

2. Lack of a deterrent factor. Why do the police, tuk tuk, taxi drivers, etc behave like they do? No consequences to their hooliganism. When is the last time a policeman was tried and convicted on corruption charges? When was the last time a taxi driver lost his car, due to refusing to use his meter in the nearly lawless zones of Phuket or Samui, especially.

3. Crony politics. In second world countries politicians are appointed based on qualifications. Here, they are appointed based on who they know, and how much assistance they gave to the elected PM. Not an effective way to run a country. Not a sign of progress.

4. Education. A second world country has an effective educational system. Most international studies place Thailand very low on that scale. Little seems to be done to improve that. Are the elite trying to keep the masses dumbed down? What other explanations are there for such a poor system? Why are most Thais who study English unable to speak much English? Why can't they add in their head? How can they compete with their neighbors who are putting alot to time, effort and money into improving their educational systems? Will the country continue to lose their place in the world due to this lack of effort?

5. Infrastructure. Laos has 3G throughout the country. I have traveled to many areas of Bangkok that still do not have it. While many places are installing 4G systems, Thailand is still sorting through this, and is years behind the curve. They just installed a new electric cable from the mainland to Samui. They have not completed paving of the main road on the island. This kind of amateur hour politics is reminiscent of the third world.

6. Ineffective government. One of the primary issues with Thailand, is the ability to follow thought on the initiatives of previous administrations. How do you grow a country if you cannot maintain the momentum from one administration to the next? How do you continue progress? That is a third world mentality.

7. Ineffective regulation of policy. The parliament seems to be quite busy creating law, on a daily basis. But, once this law is created the govt. seems to have little ability to implement it. Much is being made of the upcoming ASEAN summit and Thailand's leadership of it. Well, they may be unqualified to do so. During the 6th ASEAN summit Thailand agreed to participate in a campaign that allowed the free transfer of all alcoholic beverages manufactured throughout all of the ASEAN nations, within the region. They signed the pact, and it went into effect as of Jan. 1st, 2011. How much Laotian, Vietnamese, I

Indonesian, and Burmese beer have you seen on your supermarket shelf lately? It is quite obvious someone bought off a senator, who then prevented the implementation of this policy to this day. So, how do you lead an organization, who's very policy you ignore daily? Why is the govt. so inept at enforcing these charters that it signs? Why don't they care? Why wasn't the senator who prevented the implementation of this policy arrested, jailed and his impressive assets seized? How very third world of them.

8. Foor safety. The lack of a health safety campaign, an effective health department, that inspects restaurants, supermarkets, distribution chains, etc, prevents the country moving forward to improve its health standards.

9. Pollution and the environment. While the Philippines, and some other countries in ASEAN are making strides in eliminating the use of plastic boxes and bags, Thailand is doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing is being done to curb the use of plastic. How about a littering campaign? In the US littering really stopped after a fine of $1,000 was imposed on the highways. Imagine the reaction of the average Thai, if they were fined 30,000 baht for throwing a plastic bag out the window? Entire regions of Issan have no trash pickup! So, they either bury their trash, burn it, or dump it. In the case of waste, the sanitary standards are at the bottom of the third world. Though the average Thai person is very conscious about keeping their environment clean, the govt. is doing little. In Koh Samui alot of toilet waste is piped directly into the sea. So is alot of the sewer runoff. After all these years, not one sewer plant has been built to treat waste water. Not one. Is that a result of apathy? Here is a multi billion dollar tourist island, where all of the reefs have been completely destroyed due to govt. apathy and negligence. And the water continues to be fouled to this day. Tests show a frightening level of bacteria in the water, in the local beaches. The local mayor refuses to establish a litter collecting campaign on the beaches, despite years of pressure to do so. He has been effective in improving the roads, and there is slow progress in improving the place, but this kind of work should have been done a decade ago.

I could go on and one filling up many pages with this kind of detail. I could spend a week listing all of the things that are not happening here. But you get the point. Let us call a spade a spade. Thailand is definitely not second world. They have accomplished alot, in very little time. Alot of what they have done is impressive. But, so many details have been cast aside. Much attention needs to be paid to the details, before Thailand can be awarded second world status.

Yada, yada, yada, if you didn't know these things before you came you shouldn't have come in the first place, begone with you.

[Chicog]

Mods can you please move this thread to the Jokes forum where it belongs.

[ianf]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

No. These are started deliberately by local authority staff who clear the sides of the roads. As a cyclist, covering some 400 kms or more per week in this very area, I can attest to the amount of burning going on. Any of you who have drive to Bangkok from here have seen the fires in the central reseravations. These fires burn leaves, yes, but they also burn aerosol cans and plastic bags and other toxic garbage. Some neighbours were found burning in their garden during the day. The police fined them after receiving complaints. So they burnt at night time and the police did not come out. There is no enforcement. We have had these calls year upon year and it just gets worse.

On recent drives (or cycles) up to Samoeng, over Doi Angkhan and all around Doi Inthanon shows just how bad this is. Last year near Mae Chaem we drove past some 20 kms of burnt roadside forest. Ad they (whoever they are) tell us this blows in from Burma. I cycled past a Wat the other day just near Chiang Mai and the monks were burning. I asked them to desist and pointed out the rancid air. They simply laughed and treated it as a joke. Buddhists? Now as an athlete I need to train. As a cycling coach I need to train my riders. You would be mad to engage in serious effort in this toxic air. So all activity, sadly has ceased. For two days I have remained in the house - but my eyes are still smarting ......... For goodness sake can this Government please address this problem. Send fire engines out to douse the flames. Take people to court. Just get serious for heaven's sake.

Also of interest is when we are dusting the house the dusters are black with dust. This is not normal black and we are breathing this stuff. Sadly I'm not in a position to run away to another part of Asia.

I read about the Hill Tribe folk insisting on burning: The law says "No" and they should be made to obey it because if they think their Human Rights are affected what about the rights of all the thousands of individuals here who are being poisoned?

Edited March 22, 2013 by ianf

[chooka]

The crackdowns and the threats to enforce the laws are an absolute joke and make Thailand look like an idiot. It is getting worse every year not better. To much money to be made by enforcement agencies.

[chooka]

having done 10,000km around the north west since dec i was very shocked at the amount of fires at the sides of the roads, some spread well into the surrounding countryside. are these started by discarded cigarettes?

God grow up man

what? it was a straight forward question. ive ridden through dozens of roadside fires and have not seen anyone else in the area starting them so i asked how they are started. if you cant give me a civil reply then shut the <deleted> up or go run and tell a mod.

They are not started by cigarettes they are deliberately lit fires in the fields and along the roadsides. It is a normal practice the same time every year and lasts for months.

[Thailand]

Not second world. Third world, positively, and definitely. The one area that sets Thailand apart from the second world is the legal system, the police, the judiciary, and the govt. In a second world country, there is an effective judiciary. Thailland does not have one, as there is very, very little here in the way of an effective judiciary.

Some examples:

1. Thailand is one of the few countries in Asia that is virtually free of a war on corruption. Virtually nothing of consequence of being done to prosecute and jail corrupt politicians, or police officials. Remember the transport minister who was caught with 2,000,000,000 baht (yes, 2 billion!) cash in his living room? Did he go to prison? No. Was he even arrested? No.

2. Lack of a deterrent factor. Why do the police, tuk tuk, taxi drivers, etc behave like they do? No consequences to their hooliganism. When is the last time a policeman was tried and convicted on corruption charges? When was the last time a taxi driver lost his car, due to refusing to use his meter in the nearly lawless zones of Phuket or Samui, especially.

3. Crony politics. In second world countries politicians are appointed based on qualifications. Here, they are appointed based on who they know, and how much assistance they gave to the elected PM. Not an effective way to run a country. Not a sign of progress.

4. Education. A second world country has an effective educational system. Most international studies place Thailand very low on that scale. Little seems to be done to improve that. Are the elite trying to keep the masses dumbed down? What other explanations are there for such a poor system? Why are most Thais who study English unable to speak much English? Why can't they add in their head? How can they compete with their neighbors who are putting alot to time, effort and money into improving their educational systems? Will the country continue to lose their place in the world due to this lack of effort?

5. Infrastructure. Laos has 3G throughout the country. I have traveled to many areas of Bangkok that still do not have it. While many places are installing 4G systems, Thailand is still sorting through this, and is years behind the curve. They just installed a new electric cable from the mainland to Samui. They have not completed paving of the main road on the island. This kind of amateur hour politics is reminiscent of the third world.

6. Ineffective government. One of the primary issues with Thailand, is the ability to follow thought on the initiatives of previous administrations. How do you grow a country if you cannot maintain the momentum from one administration to the next? How do you continue progress? That is a third world mentality.

7. Ineffective regulation of policy. The parliament seems to be quite busy creating law, on a daily basis. But, once this law is created the govt. seems to have little ability to implement it. Much is being made of the upcoming ASEAN summit and Thailand's leadership of it. Well, they may be unqualified to do so. During the 6th ASEAN summit Thailand agreed to participate in a campaign that allowed the free transfer of all alcoholic beverages manufactured throughout all of the ASEAN nations, within the region. They signed the pact, and it went into effect as of Jan. 1st, 2011. How much Laotian, Vietnamese, I

Indonesian, and Burmese beer have you seen on your supermarket shelf lately? It is quite obvious someone bought off a senator, who then prevented the implementation of this policy to this day. So, how do you lead an organization, who's very policy you ignore daily? Why is the govt. so inept at enforcing these charters that it signs? Why don't they care? Why wasn't the senator who prevented the implementation of this policy arrested, jailed and his impressive assets seized? How very third world of them.

8. Foor safety. The lack of a health safety campaign, an effective health department, that inspects restaurants, supermarkets, distribution chains, etc, prevents the country moving forward to improve its health standards.

9. Pollution and the environment. While the Philippines, and some other countries in ASEAN are making strides in eliminating the use of plastic boxes and bags, Thailand is doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing is being done to curb the use of plastic. How about a littering campaign? In the US littering really stopped after a fine of $1,000 was imposed on the highways. Imagine the reaction of the average Thai, if they were fined 30,000 baht for throwing a plastic bag out the window? Entire regions of Issan have no trash pickup! So, they either bury their trash, burn it, or dump it. In the case of waste, the sanitary standards are at the bottom of the third world. Though the average Thai person is very conscious about keeping their environment clean, the govt. is doing little. In Koh Samui alot of toilet waste is piped directly into the sea. So is alot of the sewer runoff. After all these years, not one sewer plant has been built to treat waste water. Not one. Is that a result of apathy? Here is a multi billion dollar tourist island, where all of the reefs have been completely destroyed due to govt. apathy and negligence. And the water continues to be fouled to this day. Tests show a frightening level of bacteria in the water, in the local beaches. The local mayor refuses to establish a litter collecting campaign on the beaches, despite years of pressure to do so. He has been effective in improving the roads, and there is slow progress in improving the place, but this kind of work should have been done a decade ago.

I could go on and one filling up many pages with this kind of detail. I could spend a week listing all of the things that are not happening here. But you get the point. Let us call a spade a spade. Thailand is definitely not second world. They have accomplished alot, in very little time. Alot of what they have done is impressive. But, so many details have been cast aside. Much attention needs to be paid to the details, before Thailand can be awarded second world status.

All of the above are reasons why I'm moving to Malaysia.

I guess you will be sorely missed by many.

[spidermike007]

Not second world. Third world, positively, and definitely. The one area that sets Thailand apart from the second world is the legal system, the police, the judiciary, and the govt. In a second world country, there is an effective judiciary. Thailland does not have one, as there is very, very little here in the way of an effective judiciary.

Some examples:

1. Thailand is one of the few countries in Asia that is virtually free of a war on corruption. Virtually nothing of consequence of being done to prosecute and jail corrupt politicians, or police officials. Remember the transport minister who was caught with 2,000,000,000 baht (yes, 2 billion!) cash in his living room? Did he go to prison? No. Was he even arrested? No.

2. Lack of a deterrent factor. Why do the police, tuk tuk, taxi drivers, etc behave like they do? No consequences to their hooliganism. When is the last time a policeman was tried and convicted on corruption charges? When was the last time a taxi driver lost his car, due to refusing to use his meter in the nearly lawless zones of Phuket or Samui, especially.

3. Crony politics. In second world countries politicians are appointed based on qualifications. Here, they are appointed based on who they know, and how much assistance they gave to the elected PM. Not an effective way to run a country. Not a sign of progress.

4. Education. A second world country has an effective educational system. Most international studies place Thailand very low on that scale. Little seems to be done to improve that. Are the elite trying to keep the masses dumbed down? What other explanations are there for such a poor system? Why are most Thais who study English unable to speak much English? Why can't they add in their head? How can they compete with their neighbors who are putting alot to time, effort and money into improving their educational systems? Will the country continue to lose their place in the world due to this lack of effort?

5. Infrastructure. Laos has 3G throughout the country. I have traveled to many areas of Bangkok that still do not have it. While many places are installing 4G systems, Thailand is still sorting through this, and is years behind the curve. They just installed a new electric cable from the mainland to Samui. They have not completed paving of the main road on the island. This kind of amateur hour politics is reminiscent of the third world.

6. Ineffective government. One of the primary issues with Thailand, is the ability to follow thought on the initiatives of previous administrations. How do you grow a country if you cannot maintain the momentum from one administration to the next? How do you continue progress? That is a third world mentality.

7. Ineffective regulation of policy. The parliament seems to be quite busy creating law, on a daily basis. But, once this law is created the govt. seems to have little ability to implement it. Much is being made of the upcoming ASEAN summit and Thailand's leadership of it. Well, they may be unqualified to do so. During the 6th ASEAN summit Thailand agreed to participate in a campaign that allowed the free transfer of all alcoholic beverages manufactured throughout all of the ASEAN nations, within the region. They signed the pact, and it went into effect as of Jan. 1st, 2011. How much Laotian, Vietnamese, I

Indonesian, and Burmese beer have you seen on your supermarket shelf lately? It is quite obvious someone bought off a senator, who then prevented the implementation of this policy to this day. So, how do you lead an organization, who's very policy you ignore daily? Why is the govt. so inept at enforcing these charters that it signs? Why don't they care? Why wasn't the senator who prevented the implementation of this policy arrested, jailed and his impressive assets seized? How very third world of them.

8. Foor safety. The lack of a health safety campaign, an effective health department, that inspects restaurants, supermarkets, distribution chains, etc, prevents the country moving forward to improve its health standards.

9. Pollution and the environment. While the Philippines, and some other countries in ASEAN are making strides in eliminating the use of plastic boxes and bags, Thailand is doing NOTHING. Absolutely nothing is being done to curb the use of plastic. How about a littering campaign? In the US littering really stopped after a fine of $1,000 was imposed on the highways. Imagine the reaction of the average Thai, if they were fined 30,000 baht for throwing a plastic bag out the window? Entire regions of Issan have no trash pickup! So, they either bury their trash, burn it, or dump it. In the case of waste, the sanitary standards are at the bottom of the third world. Though the average Thai person is very conscious about keeping their environment clean, the govt. is doing little. In Koh Samui alot of toilet waste is piped directly into the sea. So is alot of the sewer runoff. After all these years, not one sewer plant has been built to treat waste water. Not one. Is that a result of apathy? Here is a multi billion dollar tourist island, where all of the reefs have been completely destroyed due to govt. apathy and negligence. And the water continues to be fouled to this day. Tests show a frightening level of bacteria in the water, in the local beaches. The local mayor refuses to establish a litter collecting campaign on the beaches, despite years of pressure to do so. He has been effective in improving the roads, and there is slow progress in improving the place, but this kind of work should have been done a decade ago.

I could go on and one filling up many pages with this kind of detail. I could spend a week listing all of the things that are not happening here. But you get the point. Let us call a spade a spade. Thailand is definitely not second world. They have accomplished alot, in very little time. Alot of what they have done is impressive. But, so many details have been cast aside. Much attention needs to be paid to the details, before Thailand can be awarded second world status.

Yada, yada, yada, if you didn't know these things before you came you shouldn't have come in the first place, begone with you.

Thanks for not only your compassion, but also your wit, and your stunning intellectual prowess.

[MESmith]

Saved by the bell wind again.

Or was it the "step up in law enforcement"