Thailand Implicated In Chinese ' Honey Laundering' Scheme

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Rather than the indicments in the U.S., this news report back from 2011 appears to be the source that Business Insider is relying on for the lead and other chemical contamination allegations re Chinese honey -- totally separate from recent criminal case.

http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/08/honey-laundering/#.UU0H3tC86O0

the honey industry and Congress can’t get the FDA to even come up with a legal definition of what honey is.

Eight years ago, America’s beekeepers and some honey packers petitioned FDA to issue an official definition of honey. Their concern was how to determine whether honey is bogus if there is no official standard to measure it against. The FDA did nothing.

Last Nov. 15, senators asked the food safety agency for the same thing. Again, nothing.

On Aug. 10, two members of the Senate Committee on Appropriations tried once more.

Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) and John Hoeven (R-ND) urged the FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg to issue the official definition.

Calling the lack of regulations “a food safety concern,” Gillibrand said a national standard of identity for honey is needed “to prevent unscrupulous importers from flooding the market with misbranded honey products…”

An investigator in FDA’s import section explained the agency’s refusal to develop an official definition to FSN. “If we had an official description of honey then FDA would have to inspect everything we’re importing to ensure it’s legal. That’s the last thing we want to do,” he said, but would not allow his name to be used because he wasn’t authorized to make public statements.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A 2011 TIME article explained the history of why lead and the antibiotic called chloramphenicol in honey originating from China:

What’s wrong with honey from China? For one thing, it may contain lead, a toxin that accumulates in the body and can cause neurological damage, particularly in young children. The lead contamination has been traced back to the thousands of small beekeeping operations in China that use unlined, lead-soldered drums to collect and store honey before transferring it to processors.

Further, FSN reports, Chinese honey may contain tiny amounts of an antibiotic known as chloramphenicol, which was used in the early 2000s to thwart a bacterial epidemic that was killing tens of millions of bees. The FDA has banned the presence of the drug in food; even in small amounts, it can cause a severe or fatal reaction in about 1 out of 30,000 people.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/08/22/tainted-chinese-honey-may-be-on-u-s-store-shelves/

[LarryBird]

Just stop dealing with China.. Short run it will hurt, but long run it will feel sooooo gooood.. They'll do whatever they can get away with.. Let them change on their own. Scumbags.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I for on

no I don't think they are indicting Chinese people. I think they are just criticizing the policies of the Chinese govt and regulation, labeling accuracy etc.

Let's face it some dodgy stuff is coming out of there... It's just a product of the whole system. Population stress, history, central planning and a turbulent past.

"but its often hysteria and some xenophobia added and old yellow peril racism. like this story that is actually about that some honey packing companies imported Chinese honey to the US and with labeling it as honey from Mongolia or importing it as sugar syrup the avoided to pay 180 million dollar import tax. nothing about poising little babies.

that is only bad for american honey producers because the cannot stand international competition. so some people start to play the racist hate card."

Really who cares. Let the feedback cause China to produce a better product in the future.

Food safety issues are fair game inside the US so nobody can expect the scrutiny to be less for imports from China or any other developing exporter.

Past performance is the best predictor of future performance and China has a well documented history of quality control and safety issues.

If China has like 60 of the 100 most polluted world cities then what does anybody expect?

Edited March 23, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[EyesWideOpen]

Zhouzhou

but its often hysteria and some xenophobia added and old yellow peril racism. like this story that is actually about that some honey packing companies imported Chinese honey to the US and with labeling it as honey from Mongolia or importing it as sugar syrup the avoided to pay 180 million dollar import tax. nothing about poising little babies.

that is only bad for american honey producers because the cannot stand international competition. so some people start to play the racist hate card.

Hahaha yellow peril racism. Nice one... Wait is that where Asian people take over the world ?? Indeed it is !!!! Looks like China is well on the way..... :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril

"The term has also referred to the irrational xenophobic belief and fear that East Asian societies would invade and attack Western societies, wage wars with and lead to their eventual destruction and eradication."

Looks like those people from the 19th Century were pretty clever, except they could not foresee current methods of cyber warfare currently being used.

I personally avoid Chinese products. They are crap to start with, and every dollar spent is money going to help build the Chinese war machine. A taste of the future would be China throwing weight in the South China Sea. Ask countries in that area how peaceful China seems to them.

So to me it is fundamentally wrong to be basically re-branding Chinese products in America. Whether or not the product is contaminated is a separate issue, feel free to google search on your own...

[rogerdee123]

For those who like honeycomb I noticed that the Bangkok Baking Company, that bakery in JW Marriott Hotel, is selling honeycomb in small plastic boxes. Didn't check the price but guess it's expensive.

[ZhouZhou]

and the xenophobes in america are afraid to eat honey from china so it got relabeled as honey from India or Mongolia or somewhere else to avoid that yellow peril scare.

Take a look at any picture of "American" (or British, or German, or...) politicians, police, military, church congregations and celebrities- in fact just about any group. And then look at any picture of the same "Chinese" groups. Look at their ethnic traits. Look for the variations in skin and hair color.

Then come back and tell us who are the world's xenophobes.

take a look a the statement in this topic and look who is afraid of anything Chinese.

[ZhouZhou]

Zhouzhou

but its often hysteria and some xenophobia added and old yellow peril racism. like this story that is actually about that some honey packing companies imported Chinese honey to the US and with labeling it as honey from Mongolia or importing it as sugar syrup the avoided to pay 180 million dollar import tax. nothing about poising little babies.

that is only bad for american honey producers because the cannot stand international competition. so some people start to play the racist hate card.

Hahaha yellow peril racism. Nice one... Wait is that where Asian people take over the world ?? Indeed it is !!!! Looks like China is well on the way..... :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril

"The term has also referred to the irrational xenophobic belief and fear that East Asian societies would invade and attack Western societies, wage wars with and lead to their eventual destruction and eradication."

Looks like those people from the 19th Century were pretty clever, except they could not foresee current methods of cyber warfare currently being used.

I personally avoid Chinese products. They are crap to start with, and every dollar spent is money going to help build the Chinese war machine. A taste of the future would be China throwing weight in the South China Sea. Ask countries in that area how peaceful China seems to them.

So to me it is fundamentally wrong to be basically re-branding Chinese products in America. Whether or not the product is contaminated is a separate issue, feel free to google search on your own...

what a nonsense.

Just say you don't like China and Chinese people.

No matter if the story in the OP is true or not you will always have time for some anti Chinese rant.

What Chinese war machine? are you kidding? do you know anything about that country the flag you sport as avatar stand for?

[A_Traveller]

ZhouZhou, maybe you should take a step back. It would appear from your posts that you view any questioning or debating response as inherently sinophobic as opposed to giving the person the benefit of the doubt that they are discussing the OP - Honey and therefore to a degree trade relationships.

Some may well harbour such feelings and as such will soon be exposed, but may I also note that many here come form a background, summed up by Voltaire, though I paraphrase, "I disagree with you to my dying breath, but I would give that breath for your right to say it.", something that does not, on balance, appear to be viewed as a virtue by some of your fellows.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

stop trolling the poor guy...

If someone doesn't have facts or a supportable argument then its common to play race or Xenophobia card.

It's last resort of saving face....

When someone acts offended its usually because its true.

If you said something like Americans are stingy or Jews can't handle their money then few would be offended by that because there is little to it.

[ZhouZhou]

ZhouZhou, maybe you should take a step back. It would appear from your posts that you view any questioning or debating response as inherently sinophobic as opposed to giving the person the benefit of the doubt that they are discussing the OP - Honey and therefore to a degree trade relationships.

Some may well harbour such feelings and as such will soon be exposed, but may I also note that many here come form a background, summed up by Voltaire, though I paraphrase, "I disagree with you to my dying breath, but I would give that breath for your right to say it.", something that does not, on balance, appear to be viewed as a virtue by some of your fellows.

the story in the OP is not true.

why people do make up such false stories?

and than maybe use voltaire to defend their untrue stories?

or once they are proven wrong suddenly start to talk about chinese war machine?

is it because they are genuine worried about honey?

Edited March 23, 2013 by ZhouZhou

[A_Traveller]

I agree that the OP is appallingly bad journalism, not sure it deserves that appellation, but like so many things there was an underlying issue in that the US took/takes the view that the honey industry in China was dumping [below cost] the product. To get around that business people tried to claim the honey did not come from China, not for qualitative issues but for duty avoidance ones.

As the old saying goes follow the money.

As to why sometimes and in most cases it's laziness, and or pressure of deadlines. Some here have linked to the Daily Mail in the UK which is (in)famous for taking stories with a grain of truth in them and conflating or expanding, usually by implication, the "real story" as they want to present it to sell their product. See line above

Just to add that people's perceptions are warped by the sources of information and it is ironic how the web has contributed by creating authoritative sites out of things that only 10 years ago would have been considered foolish.

One last point what many may only hazily recall was that there was an unexplained [with no specific cause ever being identified] die off in honey bees in the US. So oddly it is entirely possible that some here were concerned about US honey.

Edited March 23, 2013 by A_Traveller

[ZhouZhou]

Just stop dealing with China.. Short run it will hurt, but long run it will feel sooooo gooood.. They'll do whatever they can get away with.. Let them change on their own. Scumbags.

honey is bee xxxx you know?

Edited March 23, 2013 by metisdead
: Profanity

[ZhouZhou]

I agree that the OP is appallingly bad journalism, not sure it deserves that appellation, but like so many things there was an underlying issue in that the US took/takes the view that the honey industry in China was dumping [below cost] the product. To get around that business people tried to claim the honey did not come from China, not for qualitative issues but for duty avoidance ones.

As the old saying goes follow the money.

As to why sometimes and in most cases it's laziness, and or pressure of deadlines. Some here have linked to the Daily Mail in the UK which is (in)famous for taking stories with a grain of truth in them and conflating or expanding, usually by implication, the "real story" as they want to present it to sell their product. See line above

its all about market competition. the Chinese can produce the same product cheaper, it is not necessary of lesser quality. that scares the producer in other countries. so they come up with high import tax and some horror stories about Chinese products. and at this point the racism somewhere starts.

And some here have developed an obscure obsession with anything Chinese. i don't play the racist card because i am lacking facts. some of the uglier racist remarks have disappeared from the thread.

some people think being called a racist is more of a problem then the fact that they are one.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just stop dealing with China.. Short run it will hurt, but long run it will feel sooooo gooood.. They'll do whatever they can get away with.. Let them change on their own. Scumbags.

honey is bee shit you know?

ZZ.. quit while you have some dignity man...

Your starting to sink is quicksand

Feces" - no. That's bee pollen.

"Spit" - maybe. Depends on your own interpretation.

Simply put, bees actually take the nectar into their honey stomach, where it undergoes a chemical/enzyme process that changes the sugars. The bees put it through an evaporation process to make it thicker and more stable. In a strange sense, I suppose you could even say it is made from bee vomit.

http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/073097.html

[ZhouZhou]

Just stop dealing with China.. Short run it will hurt, but long run it will feel sooooo gooood.. They'll do whatever they can get away with.. Let them change on their own. Scumbags.

honey is bee shit you know?

ZZ.. quit while you have some dignity man...

Your starting to sink is quicksand

Feces" - no. That's bee pollen.[/size]

"Spit" - maybe. Depends on your own interpretation.[/size]

Simply put, bees actually take the nectar into their honey stomach, where it undergoes a chemical/enzyme process that changes the sugars. The bees put it through an evaporation process to make it thicker and more stable. In a strange sense, I suppose you could even say it is made from bee vomit.[/size]

http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/073097.html

okay, honey is bee vomit. thank you for your lesson ajarn.

and what are these "scumbags" LarryBird was talking about. i didn't learn that word at school.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just stop dealing with China.. Short run it will hurt, but long run it will feel sooooo gooood.. They'll do whatever they can get away with.. Let them change on their own. Scumbags.

honey is bee shit you know?

ZZ.. quit while you have some dignity man...

Your starting to sink is quicksand

Feces" - no. That's bee pollen.[/size]

"Spit" - maybe. Depends on your own interpretation.[/size]

Simply put, bees actually take the nectar into their honey stomach, where it undergoes a chemical/enzyme process that changes the sugars. The bees put it through an evaporation process to make it thicker and more stable. In a strange sense, I suppose you could even say it is made from bee vomit.[/size]

http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/073097.html

okay, honey is bee vomit. thank you for your lesson ajarn.

and what are these "scumbags" LarryBird was talking about. i didn't learn that word at school.

are you really Chinese or just trolling us?

There is this thing called Google search. Look up "scumbags"

If you looked up "bee xxxx" you would not have made yourself look hasty, overly defensive and misinformed.

just trying to be helpful really

Edited March 23, 2013 by metisdead
: Profanity

[ZhouZhou]

and you think its appropriate to use words like scumbags to describe Chinese people?

[EyesWideOpen]

Cobra snake necktie

are you really Chinese or just trolling us?

There is this thing called Google search. Look up "scumbags"

If you looked up "bee shit" you would not have made yourself look hasty, overly defensive and misinformed.

just trying to be helpful really

Hahaha pretty sure he is the alter ego for jackspratt, so I guess that would make him English. So with zhouzhou / jackspratt snapping at everyone like a mad rabid dog, I think I will move on from this thread.. Adieu !!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

and you think its appropriate to use words like scumbags to describe Chinese people?

no I don't in principle but it's called freedom of speech and people in the free world are allowed to have opinions even if they are wrong.

I am sure there are some scumbags in ALL countries including China.

China is rated one of the worst countries for freedom of the press.

I think your just having a culture clash because of how things are handled in China and how differently speech is handled in the western world.

Believe me in the US many Chinese Americans are highly respected and admired for their contributions in society and science etc. There are also super scumbags like the Chinese Triads of organized crime.

Don't take some criticism so personally because its more directed at China Govt policy which could improve in many areas.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Cobra snake necktie

are you really Chinese or just trolling us?

There is this thing called Google search. Look up "scumbags"

If you looked up "bee shit" you would not have made yourself look hasty, overly defensive and misinformed.

just trying to be helpful really

Hahaha pretty sure he is the alter ego for jackspratt, so I guess that would make him English. So with zhouzhou / jackspratt snapping at everyone like a mad rabid dog, I think I will move on from this thread.. Adieu !!

even if ZZ is a troll its still decent debate... kind of like devils advocate of debate skills test.

[A_Traveller]

Welcome to the cut and thrust of debate. If someone of any nationality contaminates baby food with the aim of bulking the product up to increase revenue even if the bulking agent has known risks for children's health then I don't have a problem with using derogatory terms. In point of fact the Chinese judiciary have no problem in executing them.

It is to be noted that the whistle-blower on this scandal was murdered in 2012.

So oddly enough people are inclined to view some Chinese products and the process which produce and manage them with suspicion.

[EyesWideOpen]

Oh and by the way, here I am traveling in China and buying honey....... It of course was delicious, as no chance for the middle man to work it over.... :-)

Borrowed protection

)

The big send off by the bee keepers

Bulk purchase.....

Edited March 23, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[ZhouZhou]

Welcome to the cut and thrust of debate. If someone of any nationality contaminates baby food with the aim of bulking the product up to increase revenue even if the bulking agent has known risks for children's health then I don't have a problem with using derogatory terms. In point of fact the Chinese judiciary have no problem in executing them.

It is to be noted that the whistle-blower on this scandal was murdered in 2012.

So oddly enough people are inclined to view some Chinese products and the process which produce and manage them with suspicion.

that has nothing to do with that untrue fake honey story, but okay.

So in China if you mess up with the food you get the death penalty.

still some people here will insist that the chinese goverment is behind and responsible.

do food scandals also exist in the west? yes!

but forget about it lets rant about anything some chinaman had made wrong and the chinese war machine because i am notxenophobe as long i can quote voltaire.

[ZhouZhou]

Chin a it's all about cheating. Everithing and allways. What ever is made in china is bad.

even good old bee xxxx is made of vomit in china according to voltaire.

Edited March 23, 2013 by metisdead
: Profanity

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

E W O.. where is china is that? Cool photos!

[EyesWideOpen]

E W O.. where is china is that? Cool photos!

A little south from Xian. Bee keeping is everywhere along the side of the road. It was part of a two month motorcycle trip I did by myself. Goal was to enter Tibet, but I got turned back by bike troubles... The Chinese people I met were fantastic, it is the government and the businesses I have trouble with. Hey wait I guess that sort of makes it like Thailand !!! :-)

Was not really sure what they were doing here. My spoken Chinese is a work in progress.... :-)

Bare arms with endless bees in the air. Wow.....

Edited March 23, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[jackspratt]

E W O.. where is china is that? Cool photos!

A little south from Xian. Bee keeping is everywhere along the side of the road. It was part of a two month motorcycle trip I did by myself...............

Two months - that is a long time to go without food or water.

Or did you carry your own K rations?

[Pimay1]

E W O.. where is china is that? Cool photos!

A little south from Xian. Bee keeping is everywhere along the side of the road. It was part of a two month motorcycle trip I did by myself. Goal was to enter Tibet, but I got turned back by bike troubles... The Chinese people I met were fantastic, it is the government and the businesses I have trouble with. Hey wait I guess that sort of makes it like Thailand !!! :-)

Agree. Back when I worked for a living I went to Beijing, Shanghai. Zhuhai, Guangzhou and a few other places quite often. I was always treated with respect. When we went out for a meal they would never let me pick up the tab telling me I was a guest in their country. Doing business is quite tricky though. Have to have a couple of meetings discussing family, culture and then get down to business.

[EyesWideOpen]

E W O.. where is china is that? Cool photos!

A little south from Xian. Bee keeping is everywhere along the side of the road. It was part of a two month motorcycle trip I did by myself...............

Two months - that is a long time to go without food or water.

Or did you carry your own K rations?

Nope. All fresh food by the side of the road. No chance for adulteration by evil Chinese factories. But thanks for worrying.... :-)

Wait now you have me thinking. Maybe my life has been shortened ??

A red hot sort of fish chowder at a stop near the Tibet border

Edited March 23, 2013 by EyesWideOpen