Leaving Thailand For Good

[cdnvic]

Please try to keep the focus on Thailand.

[doggie888888]

I know quite a few people who are considering leaving, and some who have left.

Returned home.

Moved to Laos/Burma/Cambodia.

Nothing to do with money, just tired of the Thais and their attitude, mindset, society and culture.

But clearly, far too many have stayed put, become ever more bitter and twisted, and decided to join an anonymous forum to rant, rave, whine, whinge and carry on non stop about all things Thai.

see how many threads there are about thinking of leaving, reasons for leaving and 101 ways to leave.

Enough already...just do it and put yourselves out of your collective misery.

There are far more important issues to discuss here, like "where can I get tea bags in isaan".

[watcharacters]

Good post, Homeownership.

Over my very long period of staying in Thailand something’s have remained the same, but there has also been a significant amount of changes that I don`t believe are for the better.

As far as I am aware, there have never been any real expat communities. Those that do plonk themselves here seem to melt away into the background and most prefer to keep to themselves. They are not very hospitable. The latest batch of farangs now staying here long term certainly do not seem to be changing that mode and in many cases are perhaps best avoided, which I think in many cases is they`re preference.

The low priced Kingdom of adventures has become much more commercialised since I first landed here. Attitudes have changed and everything is a lot more expensive, the emphasis being, give less for more.

But I am not specifically knocking Thailand. I believe it`s swings and roundabouts. What maybe better in Thailand could be worse in other countries and vice versa.

I blame most of the despondency on the state of the economies. It is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain our preferred lifestyles and standards of living and this is going to have an effect and take it`s toll on us wherever we live.

In my opinion it`s all down to greed by the banks and businesses that constantly want a greater slice of the cake and there are no ways of bypassing the systems no matter where we go.

.

The OP has offered his opinion and puts out food for thought. I see nothing wrong with a man deciding to change directions in his life. Good for him.

No reason for so many to get ruffled feathers. He's not asking others to follow him.

Edited March 26, 2013 by watcharacters

[roamer]

Thailand is one of the most dangerous places in the world.

Absolute nonsense, no matter how you look at it.

Gun murders per 100,000 people. Ecuador didn't make the list. Thailand's rank is more than double the US. Link

Classic. Only a simpleton would look at this list and conclude what you have. So tell me, do you REALLY believe that the USA is more dangerous than Mexico? More dangerous than the freakin PI? Get real.

Those of us who live in Thailand know that the real unrest is in the south. If that was eliminated from your little factoid, Thailand wouldn't be in the top 50. You know that. Same as the US--those of us who have lived there know that the danger is predominantly in the urban areas, inner cities. Small town USA is not the same as South Central LA.

You're intentionally misleading...which is not at all surprising.

Not only that but survey quoted is way out of date and is skewed by Thaksin's "war on drugs" . If you look at more recent data for overall homicide rates you will find that Thailand & the USA bump along at more or less the same rate of about 4.8 per 100,00 (and the USA doesn't have an ongoing civil war) and way, way less than any nation in South America.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime/Homicide_statistics2012.xls

[Newguy70]

Hi Op,

Cambodia...

I have been many times. If I were to leave Thailand, that would be my next destination.

But, we all live where we live for some reason or another.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Newguy70

[Loptr]

Where would you head to next, assuming of course, you could like so many of us can.

To answer the OP's question without all the hyperbole that other members feel necessary to interject, here is my list of alternate countries where I would hang my hat. Bear in mind I no longer live in Thailand, but that is another story.

1. Philippines. - English speaking (for the most part), easy visa regulations, low cost of living, beautiful country

2. Malaysia - Foreigner friendly for retirement visas, foreigners can own real property, 10 year visa, NO import duties on imported goods and vehicles.

3. Indonesia - I just like KL, so meh, this one is personal

4. Colombia - Once the bane of South America, it is now quite safe and prosperous. And of course there are the Colombianas!!!

5. Panama - Quite safe, western standard of living in Panama City, USD as the currency, quality health care, medium cost of living

Someone else mentioned Ecuador, which is a place I like. The only downside is the altitude above sea level of the major cities. Some people don't handle altitudes above 5,000' msl very well for a prolonged period of time. Same goes for Bogota, which is 8500' above msl.

Not sure why everyone here gets their panties in a twist when a topic like this pops up. Seems those that are the most vehement in defending their choice to live in Thailand are the ones that are the most bitter. It's a place to live, no more, no less. If you don't like, then down the road you go. No sense in lambasting someone for the choices they make on where to reside, whether it is in Thailand or Bumm F__k Egypt.

[Scully]

I know quite a few people who are considering leaving, and some who have left.

Returned home.

Moved to Laos/Burma/Cambodia.

Nothing to do with money, just tired of the Thais and their attitude, mindset, society and culture.

But clearly, far too many have stayed put, become ever more bitter and twisted, and decided to join an anonymous forum to rant, rave, whine, whinge and carry on non stop about all things Thai.

see how many threads there are about thinking of leaving, reasons for leaving and 101 ways to leave.

Enough already...just do it and put yourselves out of your collective misery.

There are far more important issues to discuss here, like "where can I get tea bags in isaan".

Tesco lotus 179 baht for 100, not bad at all, even come with string attached so you can hang them up and use them twice

[NeverSure]

Where would you head to next, assuming of course, you could like so many of us can.

To answer the OP's question without all the hyperbole that other members feel necessary to interject, here is my list of alternate countries where I would hang my hat. Bear in mind I no longer live in Thailand, but that is another story.

1. Philippines. - English speaking (for the most part), easy visa regulations, low cost of living, beautiful country

2. Malaysia - Foreigner friendly for retirement visas, foreigners can own real property, 10 year visa, NO import duties on imported goods and vehicles.

3. Indonesia - I just like KL, so meh, this one is personal

4. Colombia - Once the bane of South America, it is now quite safe and prosperous. And of course there are the Colombianas!!!

5. Panama - Quite safe, western standard of living in Panama City, USD as the currency, quality health care, medium cost of living

Someone else mentioned Ecuador, which is a place I like. The only downside is the altitude above sea level of the major cities. Some people don't handle altitudes above 5,000' msl very well for a prolonged period of time. Same goes for Bogota, which is 8500' above msl.

Not sure why everyone here gets their panties in a twist when a topic like this pops up. Seems those that are the most vehement in defending their choice to live in Thailand are the ones that are the most bitter. It's a place to live, no more, no less. If you don't like, then down the road you go. No sense in lambasting someone for the choices they make on where to reside, whether it is in Thailand or Bumm F__k Egypt.

Altitude can be a big benefit in Ecuador. There is a ton of ocean front at 0 elevation if you don't want altitude, or you can go as high as you want and find nice cities in the mountains. Higher elevation means cool. The average temperature in Cuenca is about 75 F (24 C) night and day, year round. No need for heat or aircon, and 330,000 people manage to live there.

I'm struggling every time I'm in LOS due to heat and humidity, and Chiang Mai really gets to me. I don't think I can live in Chiang Mai again due to crowding and pollution. Put me down for something smaller, in the N. mountains away from the coal plants, LOL.

Just a point.

Edited March 26, 2013 by NeverSure

[lannarebirth]

^{I am trying to understand why they want to leave and it comes down to}

^{1. Cheap living}

^{2. Ex-Pat Community}

^{3. Stable country. (More or less)}

^{Cambodia, Laos and Burma all offer these in abundance.}

^{I think you're approaching your queries from a false premise. Must of what I've quoted simply isn't true. I wouldn't buy into your friends' delusions if I were you. Still, if I were a young person I might give them a go. I was more resilient then and life mistakes were easier to bounce back from.}

Edited March 26, 2013 by lannarebirth

[wooloomooloo]

Even by Thai standards...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298345/Horror-Mexico-seven-men-executed-bodies-arranged-chairs-messages-nailed-chests-using-ice-picks.html

[NeverSure]

Even by Thai standards...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298345/Horror-Mexico-seven-men-executed-bodies-arranged-chairs-messages-nailed-chests-using-ice-picks.html

From your link:

"Both states on Mexico's western coast have seen a rise of violence in recent years attributed to drug cartels. Around 70,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence in Mexico in seven years."

As in any country, stay out of the slums and the drug infested areas. Let the drug dealers and competing cartels kill each other off for all I care.

There are definitely places in every developed Western country where I don't want to be, any time.

[jackr]

Try for a change to start a topic with something positive to say about Thailand!

Good luck in Cambo, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

What is negative about it? All points are valid and he was clearly musing his expat friends moving on. Suggest reading first rather than try to be a smart alec for the sake of 'likes'.

And there is nothing more cringeworthy on here than newbies whining about threads being done to death.

[Loptr]

Even by Thai standards...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2298345/Horror-Mexico-seven-men-executed-bodies-arranged-chairs-messages-nailed-chests-using-ice-picks.html

From your link:

"Both states on Mexico's western coast have seen a rise of violence in recent years attributed to drug cartels. Around 70,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence in Mexico in seven years."

As in any country, stay out of the slums and the drug infested areas. Let the drug dealers and competing cartels kill each other off for all I care.

There are definitely places in every developed Western country where I don't want to be, any time.

Unfortunately the violence in Mexico is that it is not confined to the slums and drug infested areas to use your vernacular.

Foreigner murdered in Acapulco

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/25/17083513-businessman-slain-in-acapulcos-2nd-violent-attack-involving-foreigners-in-3-weeks?lite

Tourist rape by 6 men in Acapulco

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/13/16954791-6-arrested-in-acapulco-tourists-rape?lite

Huff Post Article on the topic

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/22/acapulco-violence-tourism_n_826391.html

And this is just one resort city in Mexico. The rest is just as ugly.

[FunFon]

Whereas I'll take a 3am stroll through the "most dangerous" sections of khlong toei or any slum you can name in Thailand, anywhere anytime with my kids or without and not feel a tenth of the danger I do in the major man-swarms back hom, even some suburbs.

That factor to me is worth a lot more than than paying a bit more for decent cheese and chocolate.

[Berkshire]

I know quite a few people who are considering leaving, and some who have left.

Returned home.

Moved to Laos/Burma/Cambodia.

Nothing to do with money, just tired of the Thais and their attitude, mindset, society and culture.

But clearly, far too many have stayed put, become ever more bitter and twisted, and decided to join an anonymous forum to rant, rave, whine, whinge and carry on non stop about all things Thai.

see how many threads there are about thinking of leaving, reasons for leaving and 101 ways to leave.

Enough already...just do it and put yourselves out of your collective misery.

There are far more important issues to discuss here, like "where can I get tea bags in isaan".

So true. Why do they have to be so melodramatic?? We don't care. Just freakin get on a plane and leave already! The rest of us will be fine....REALLY.

[Asiantravel]

I can agree with the OP that it is relatively simple to move from Thailand to Cambodia and that getting a visa to stay long term in Cambodia is currently simple and straightforward.

But I don't agree with this regarding Burma - or Laos for that matter?

In both Thailand and Cambodia you can stay in both countries long-term without having to engage in work or business activities.

I see no similar provisions for obtaining a long-term visa to stay in Burma or Laos on similar terms? In other words there doesn't seem to be anything similar to a retirement Visa in both of these countries?

Edited March 27, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Almera]

We don't care. Just freakin get on a plane and leave already! The rest of us will be fine....REALLY.

You can tell people don't care by the way they open threads and post to tell us.

[FunFon]

Some parts of Burma currently rioting, Muslim vs Buddhists. . .

[FunFon]

Columbia actually seems to be getting much safer these days, and Cartagena sure looks gorgeous. . .

[davejones]

Too expensive? You have got to be joking. If you think Thailand is expensive then there is no real hope for you. It seems like you know people that are just looking for the cheapest place in the world. I currently live in Thailand on about 25% of what I spent in the UK. The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that. If your friends come from the UK, how on earth can they think that living on 20,000/month is expensive. How much do they earn? If they earn less than the average Thai, then may it's expensive to them. But why are they here if they have so little money? This too expensive argument just doesn't stand up. Everywhere is too expensive if you spend more than you earn. Condo in London - 100,000 baht/month; condo in Bangkok - 25,000/month. Expensive?

Too many Russians. Makes me laugh. I have lived in Thailand for 3 years and apart from a weekend I spent in Pattaya, I've only seen a handful of Russians. Where do your friends live. It makes me laugh when people live in one area and assume the whole of Thailand is exactly the same. Some areas of Thailand don't have hardly any foreigners. So if your friends don't like Russians, why do they need to leave the country? Why can't they move to an area where there aren't any Russians? And finally, what's wrong with Russians?

Expats. If the want to be around other Brits, the best place for them would be Britain.

It seems your friends want to live in a poor country surrounded by other Brits. And while they think it's ok for Brits to live in the country they choose, others (like Russians) should stay away. What a great bunch of people. Reminds me of a couple of surveys I read that were conducted in the UK. I can't remember the exact figures, but it was along the lines of... Survey 1 - 70% of British people want to retire abroad; Survey 2 - 70% of British people think foreigners shouldn't be allowed to come to live in the UK. LOL. So British people think they have the right to live anywhere they choose, but others should stick to their own countries. Typical British double standards. I'm British by the way, so I know.

And why don't your friends actually leave? They seem to be all talk and no action. In other words, just a bunch of complainers. Too expensive, too many Russians, blah, blah, blah. Boring. Tell them to either shut up or move. Or are you going to listen to them continually complaining?

[Almera]

^^ Sounds good.

Are the locals there delicate little Gods, or are they worth being with?

Edited March 27, 2013 by Almera

[Almera]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

[Naam]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

the average wage in Thailand is 20k Baht only in your dreams.

[davejones]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

I wouldn't in somewhere like Bangkok. It's just shows that Thailand should be expensive for an expat on an average income from their home country. I just don't understand how Brits can think it's expensive here (apart from some notable exceptions). But if they came for cheap living, I assume they don't buy the expensive stuff like cars. So what exactly do they find expensive?

But at the moment my gf and I live on around 40,000 per month (20,000 each). We have a nice condo and eat out 2-3 times every day. We don't try to cut back, and we live comfortably. I Bangkok we lived on maybe 80,000. But we don't have a car or kids, which are major expenses for many. We're very happy and don't see life as expensive. So I'm just wondering what these other Brits find so expensive. Is it just that they live in Bangkok and hang out in 5* places? We haven't set a limit on our spending. It's just what everything we spend comes to. We don't find it difficult at all. There's nothing we don't buy because we can't afford it.

Edited March 27, 2013 by davejones

[davejones]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

the average wage in Thailand is 20k Baht only in your dreams.

Do you mean it's less or more? I was just giving a very generally figure which I think I read somewhere, although I've no idea how accurate it is. But I don't think it's wildly wrong.

[Almera]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

I wouldn't. It's just shows that Thailand should be expensive for an expat on an average income from their home country. I just don't understand how Brits can think it's expensive here (apart from some notable exceptions). But if they came for cheap living, I assume they don't buy the expensive stuff like cars. So what exactly do they find expensive?

I honestly feel pity for those who come here to live in a single room 5k p/m box. Or living in a dilapidated old house in the middle of dirty, peasant country, struggling away with a dependent family on 40k and under, just so they can live here.

Sure living can be cheap, but who would want it that cheap.

60k p/m for a single guy with no dependents could be okay.

[Almera]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

the average wage in Thailand is 20k Baht only in your dreams.

Do you mean it's less or more?

It's probably around 15k in BKK, and 8k outside.

There are lots and lots earning more, much much more, but the sheer weight of numbers stuck in uneducated menial positions earning minimum wage, and newly qualifieds fighting for the promised 15k brings the averages way down. I read the average family in BKK has a joint income of around 35k.

[FunFon]

It's probably around 15k in BKK, and 8k outside.

There are lots and lots earning more, much much more, but the sheer weight of numbers stuck in uneducated menial positions earning minimum wage, and newly qualifieds fighting for the promised 15k brings the averages way down. I read the average family in BKK has a joint income of around 35k.

-

I think both BKK figures are high, many many workers have yet to actually get the increase to 300 per day the "law" requires here, and there sure are a lot of under-employed.

My maid's two teenage girls work for the restaurant around the corner for 100B per day, only six hours or so but still. . .

I reckon 12-13K's probably average per worker, which would put average family at maybe 20, lots of single-earner families, single-parent at the low end.

But no one's collecting accurate figures, it's all WAGing.

[davejones]

The average wage in Thailand is about 20,000 baht/month, and Thais live on that.

Who on Earth would want to live like that??? (beside the millions of Thais who are forced to live here on less, and weirdos, of course).

I wouldn't. It's just shows that Thailand should be expensive for an expat on an average income from their home country. I just don't understand how Brits can think it's expensive here (apart from some notable exceptions). But if they came for cheap living, I assume they don't buy the expensive stuff like cars. So what exactly do they find expensive?

I honestly feel pity for those who come here to live in a single room 5k p/m box. Or living in a dilapidated old house in the middle of dirty, peasant country, struggling away with a dependent family on 40k and under, just so they can live here.

Sure living can be cheap, but who would want it that cheap.

60k p/m for a single guy with no dependents could be okay.

I agree. But you can get a very nice 3-bed house in somewhere like Chiang Mai for 10k/month. And I'm talking modern house in nice area in a great city. I think some don't realise that there are some very nice (and big) houses available for very affordable rents. Yes, there are dingy 5K boxes.Some think this is all they can get, but it's not. They need to get out and about more.

60k for living where? Bangkok? You can't generalise for the whole of Thailand. It's all different. If I was single in Chiang Mai, I wouldn't know how to spend 60K, unless i went out and bought expensive gadgets every month. Everything here is pretty cheap. In Bangkok I could spend much more if I was single. e.g. 40K on a nice condo, etc. Too many on here generalise as if the whole of Thailand has the same cost of living. Cheaper areas aren't always bad. Some are, but some are actually better. Many prefer Chiang Mai to bangkok, and have a much better quality of life here for half the money. I like both, so I'll change where I live from time to time.

[FunFon]

I agree. But you can get a very nice 3-bed house in somewhere like Chiang Mai for 10k/month. And I'm talking modern house in nice area in a great city. I think some don't realise that there are some very nice (and big) houses available for very affordable rents. Yes, there are dingy 5K boxes.Some think this is all they can get, but it's not. They need to get out and about more.

60k for living where? Bangkok? You can't generalise for the whole of Thailand. It's all different. If I was single in Chiang Mai, I wouldn't know how to spend 60K, unless i went out and bought expensive gadgets every month. Everything here is pretty cheap. In Bangkok I could spend much more if I was single. e.g. 40K on a nice condo, etc. Too many on here generalise as if the whole of Thailand has the same cost of living. Cheaper areas aren't always bad. Some are, but some are actually better. Many prefer Chiang Mai to bangkok, and have a much better quality of life here for half the money. I like both, so I'll change where I live from time to time.

Very good points, but make sure you're counting the fully-loaded costs of running a car, many CM residents feel that's necessary there IMO would be hard-pressed to spend less than 10K/mo unless you hardly used it made it last ten years, in most cases more like 15-20 just for the car.

And I suspect if they finally solved the smog/smoke problem prices would start to climb. . .