Avoiding Fbar And Excess Reporting...

[Lucwitz]

I have been considering moving out of the US and Thailand is at the top of my list. If i make the move, while i may not stay in Thailand forever, I would not be returning to the US other than for a short visit. My plan is to get a 1yr academic visa and use my first year to get acclimated to Thailand and take an in-depth Thai language course (the academic part of my academic Visa). I have an MBA so once I know Thai there shouldn't be a problem finding a decent job, but teaching is always a fall-back.

However, my main question is money... I want to remove all of my cash (around $300k) from US banks when I leave and originally thought I could just liquidate to cash, bring the cash to a Thai bank, and deposit it. I really want to limit my reporting back to the US and realize the 10-99 may not be able to be avoided. However, I really don't like the idea of reporting my cash in the Thai accounts with the FBAR. Is my only viable option to keep my assets in Cash or Gold and deposit it as-needed into the Thai account? I don't know how comfortable I am having such a large amount unsecured.

I did some searching but didn't see any answers for this particular dilemma.

[AyG]

Easy. Revoke your US citizenship.

[AyG]

And as for "I have an MBA so once I know Thai there shouldn't be a problem finding a decent job" - dream on!

There are loads of people here with MBAs who read, speak and write Thai fluently. (In fact, it's their native tongue.) Why would an employer employ a foreign MBA with all the extra paperwork and hassle entailed?

[up-country_sinclair]

You can't avoid filing the FBAR if you have more than 10,000 total in overseas accounts.

And why, in god's name, would you put all of your cash into banks in Thailand? I think there should have been a course during your MBA entitled: "Eggs and Baskets: Don't put them all in one".

[Mrjlh]

There are several people who can give you very good advice if they respond. Several others a re simply trolls!

My first response is to keep your money in the US banks, they give you better returns.

Secondly, only bring only money to support your life style. Over 10K you need to report. Many posts on that subject.

Good luck.

[Pib]

When your money is in a U.S. bank you are OK with it being reported to Uncle Sam (which automatically occurs with the 1099 type tax docs), but you are not OK in reporting to Uncle Sam if you put your money in a foreign bank? Why try to hide it from Uncle Sam unless you are trying to avoid something like maybe taxes?

When it comes to reporting foreign financial accounts it covers much more than just bank accounts. Below is a cut and paste from the FBAR TD F 90-22.1 form describing the type of accounts which need to be reported which seems to cover most any financial account whether its cash, commodities, etc.

Financial Account. A financial account includes, but is not limited to, a securities, brokerage, savings, demand, checking, deposit, time deposit, or other account maintained with a financial institution (or other person performing the services of a financial institution). A financial account also includes a commodity futures or options account, an insurance policy with a cash value (such as a whole life insurance policy), an annuity policy with a cash value, and shares in a mutual fund or similar pooled fund (i.e., a fund that is available to the general public with a regular net asset value determination and regular redemptions).

Keeping a lot of money in Thailand comes with risks. While Thailand currently insures bank deposits up to 50 million baht that program will eventually drop off to 1 million baht (about $33K) in a couple of years. Plus, Thailand is the Land of Smiles and Open Arms when bringing money into the country, but getting large sums out of Thailand can be very challenging...Thailand can turn into the Land of Frowns which trying to repatriate large sums. Your money would be safer in the U.S. and you would be able to move it around much easier.

Although above talks the Treasury Dept FBAR form, the IRS now (effective for the 2012 tax year) has a new Form 8938 Statement of Specific Foreign Assets where you must report your foreign financial assets although the trigger valve for reporting is higher than the FBAR trigger level.

Summary: Uncle Sam wants to know about your foreign assets for tax and money laundering purposes...might as well let him know about your foreign accounts unless you got something to hide--not to imply anything.

[gtm2k]

Brother ! You are on a collision course with disaster...

1. "I have an MBA so once I know Thai there shouldn't be a problem finding a decent job" : there's no guarantee, in fact there's a higher probability of not finding a job ! Its not about the MBA / Thai language skills - its about the hassle that prospective employers have to go through to employ a foreigner.

2. I" want to remove all of my cash (around $300k) from US banks when I leave" : very very bad idea, specially when the dollar is losing value on a daily basis in thailand. Plz do your homework well on this - if you really want all your cash here in thailand - plz get part of it only in a "foreign currency deposit account" - that ways your cash is stored in USD - you liquidate into THB only on a need-basis.

At the end of the day, there is a good chance that you will also make a thai girlfriend and an evetual social circle - so plz dont disclose your nett worth to everyone !

[Sheryl]

Good advice above.

Might add that FBAR is no big deal. A simple report once a year on a simple form, which can now be done online.

[meom]

Brother ! You are on a collision course with disaster...

1. "I have an MBA so once I know Thai there shouldn't be a problem finding a decent job" : there's no guarantee, in fact there's a higher probability of not finding a job ! Its not about the MBA / Thai language skills - its about the hassle that prospective employers have to go through to employ a foreigner.

2. I" want to remove all of my cash (around $300k) from US banks when I leave" : very very bad idea, specially when the dollar is losing value on a daily basis in thailand. Plz do your homework well on this - if you really want all your cash here in thailand - plz get part of it only in a "foreign currency deposit account" - that ways your cash is stored in USD - you liquidate into THB only on a need-basis.

At the end of the day, there is a good chance that you will also make a thai girlfriend and an evetual social circle - so plz dont disclose your nett worth to everyone !

A Thai girlfriend would solve his dilemma.

Just put everything in her account and ask her to give you what you need on a monthly basis.

[watcharacters]

Easy. Revoke your US citizenship.

.

I hope you're more intelligent than to suggest something like that, if in fact you're serious.

That idea is simply preposterous and worthless advice.

[watcharacters]

\.

Sorry I just see this is the first post of the OP and likely to be a troll post. It gets more silly as it goes. Are you an airline pilot or astronaut or a lawyer as well? One out of three people I meet in SEA are one of the above three. Strange that is.

[AyG]

Easy. Revoke your US citizenship.

.

I hope you're more intelligent than to suggest something like that, if in fact you're serious.

That idea is simply preposterous and worthless advice.

I'm absolutely serious.

The OP said that he "... would not be returning to the US other than for a short visit."

And lots of people are giving up their US citizenship because of onerous taxation and reporting. See, for example:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/should-you-renounce-your-citizenship-144048875.html

http://rt.com/usa/us-tax-income-pay-244/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/more_citizens_vote_with_their_feet_CTshpQumBXMZmUXsfw6OTM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/9904314/Americans-renouncing-citizenship-to-become-British-thanks-to-tax-rise.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-01/wealthy-americans-queue-to-give-up-passports-in-swiss-capital.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-citizen-renounce-idUSBRE83F0UF20120416

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-03/tax-changes-drive-surge-americans-recouncing-citizenship

America is one of the very few countries that taxes its citizens on their worldwide income. It also doesn't provide a decent safety net for its citizens who fall on hard times (unlike "socialist" European countries).

Frankly, I rather struggle to see why any expat not planning on returning to the US would retain their citizenship.

[Sheryl]

Easy. Revoke your US citizenship.

.

I hope you're more intelligent than to suggest something like that, if in fact you're serious.

That idea is simply preposterous and worthless advice.

I'm absolutely serious.

The OP said that he "... would not be returning to the US other than for a short visit."

And lots of people are giving up their US citizenship because of onerous taxation and reporting. See, for example:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/should-you-renounce-your-citizenship-144048875.html

http://rt.com/usa/us-tax-income-pay-244/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/more_citizens_vote_with_their_feet_CTshpQumBXMZmUXsfw6OTM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/9904314/Americans-renouncing-citizenship-to-become-British-thanks-to-tax-rise.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-01/wealthy-americans-queue-to-give-up-passports-in-swiss-capital.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-citizen-renounce-idUSBRE83F0UF20120416

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-03/tax-changes-drive-surge-americans-recouncing-citizenship

America is one of the very few countries that taxes its citizens on their worldwide income. It also doesn't provide a decent safety net for its citizens who fall on hard times (unlike "socialist" European countries).

Frankly, I rather struggle to see why any expat not planning on returning to the US would retain their citizenship.

Au contraire, the US tax code exempts income earned abroad if the taxpayer is either out of country for a specified period or has established permanent residence in another country.

US citizens living abroad get a huge break in terms of federal income tax.

State tax law varies by state, but many also do not tax on income earned out of state or abroad (and a wise expat will ensure they are "domiciled" accordingly).

Also worth noting that US citizens living abroad have full entitlement to the same amount of social security benefits as if living in the US, not true of all countries to my understanding. Eligibility for Medicaid also not affected by living abroad, whereas many countries disallow people from national health care schemes if they are resident abroad. These particular benefits are of ocourse most relevant for expats who are older e.g. retirees.

[el jefe]

To the OP:

You want to hide your assets and not report them on the simple TDF 90-22.1?

And you expect to get a job here?

Do you realize you will have to report that income on your US tax return, even if you never set foot in the US again? (you may be able to eliminate some or all of the tax based on the FEIC, but you still have to report and file.)

Obviously a troll.

If not, I agree with the suggestion to renounce your citizenship.

And if this is serious, and "I could just liquidate to cash, bring the cash to a Thai bank, and deposit it", please contact me privately. I'll have a friend of mine meet you at the airport to help you with the cash.

[mania]

Frankly, I rather struggle to see why any expat not planning on returning to the US would retain their citizenship.

Could be,

because nowhere in the world are you allowed to be a man without a country.

In order to renounce your US citizenship you first need to obtain another citizenship elsewhere.

Secondly if you have enough assets ( 2 million I think )

you still need to pay an exit tax upon renunciation of your US citizenship.

Should You Renounce Your U.S. Citizenship?

Edited March 25, 2013 by mania

[Lucwitz]

When your money is in a U.S. bank you are OK with it being reported to Uncle Sam (which automatically occurs with the 1099 type tax docs), but you are not OK in reporting to Uncle Sam if you put your money in a foreign bank? Why try to hide it from Uncle Sam unless you are trying to avoid something like maybe taxes?

First, I am not a troll and was quite serious with my inquiry. I was trying to avoid explaining my circumstances to avoid bashing, but I think I may get some serious replies so here it goes... I am wanting to leave the US to avoid the massive student loan debt and other debts I have accumulated with this ridiculous education. I have a choice, take 1/2 - 2/3 of my assets and pay it off, or liquidate my assets and leave the debt behind. Before you decide to bash, I know there are a LOT of people who do the same thing. I don't think filing the annual 10-99 would hurt, but I don't want the FBAR showing that I have a large amount of cash overseas either.

And as for "I have an MBA so once I know Thai there shouldn't be a problem finding a decent job" - dream on!

There are loads of people here with MBAs who read, speak and write Thai fluently. (In fact, it's their native tongue.) Why would an employer employ a foreign MBA with all the extra paperwork and hassle entailed?

I guess I should have been more specific.. I have quite a bit of existing experience PLUS the MBA. From looking at the job listings, it seems like there are quite a few opportunities out there for a young westerner with good experience and a good education. Maybe I am wrong, but my principle is enough to last me for 10-15 years in Thailand even without a job.

You can't avoid filing the FBAR if you have more than 10,000 total in overseas accounts.

And why, in god's name, would you put all of your cash into banks in Thailand? I think there should have been a course during your MBA entitled: "Eggs and Baskets: Don't put them all in one".

Once again, maybe I should have been more specific... I was planning to spread the money around in a few different off-shore accounts ...but that still brings the FBAR issue.

if you really want all your cash here in thailand - plz get part of it only in a "foreign currency deposit account" - that ways your cash is stored in USD - you liquidate into THB only on a need-basis.[/font][/color]

Very good suggestion.

Easy. Revoke your US citizenship.

Why are people calling me a troll and not someone who makes this idiotic suggestion? As mania said above, how could I renounce my citizenship without having citizenship in another country? Thailand would take 3-5 years minimum before I could even consider it. I am Jewish so I could renounce to Israel easily, but the cost of living and safety are major negatives.

Thanks for all of the informitave replies.

[maxman71]

One BIG issue is moving large amounts of cash into Thailand; limit I think is USD 20,000. If they catch you with more, it could be subject to confiscation at Customs. And, when you bring cash back into the US, limit is USD 10,000 unless you declare the cash if USD 10,000 or over, and they're bound to ask you all sorts of questions and report the movement of that amount of cash to the US Treasury/IRS.

I would just xfer the amount you really need in Thailand to a Thai bank and if over $10,000, file the FBAR. It's not a big deal.

The consequences of not doing so when you are required to do so, are draconian. Don't mess with it.

[ksamuiguy]

Keep your U.S. Bank Account"s get internet banking.

Opt out of paper statements and offers.

You can check everything in the internet.

You can pay bills on Net, no one need to know you are living in Thailand.

Definitely keep a U.S. Address for the bank to mail "stuff" to.

Use your U.S. Credit Cards for travel, hotels, restaurants.

Notify the bank you will be traveling in Asia so they don't block the card.

After almost 40 years in Thailand it works well.

By the way, my IRS tax address in here in Thailand and they send me the forms here in Thailand every year.

Don't to file your 2555 every year with your taxes, you are exempt up to 92,000 USD.

To be exempt you can not be in the U.S for more than 35 days in any 365 day period.

Income from the U.S. can be a problem, also Pay the tax on bank account interest you may have, If you pay they don't look so close.

Good Luck

[endure]

Thaivisa is not the place to ask about avoiding legal responsibilities.

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