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Special Admin Zone For Thai South Not On The Agenda


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Posted

Special admin zone for South not on the agenda
Anapat Deechuay,
Supitcha Rattana
The Nation

NSC chief denies BRN issued a 9-point proposal

BANGKOK: -- Ahead of its dialogue with separatists today, National Security Council (NSC) secretary-general Paradorn Pattanata-butr yesterday dismissed as untrue a report that the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) had prepared a preliminary nine-point proposal. Paradorn said the report was in fact released by a group that disagreed with the dialogue.


Affirming that the purpose of the dialogue was to reduce violent attacks in the region - not to discuss a "Pattani Metropolis" special administration zone as widely speculated - Paradorn said Thailand's 15-member team would travel to Kuala Lumpur for the first meeting with 15 militant representatives from more than nine groups. The groups are led by BRN executive Hassan Taib.

"We will submit our proposal before reaching any deal. We would like to see a drop in the daily attacks, and a stop to attacks on innocent people and car bombs in downtown areas," he said.

Denying a report that ousted prime minister Thaksin Shina-watra would be in Malaysia during the event, Paradorn said Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra had approved the names of the 15 Thai delegates for the dialogue.

However, he declined to provide details of the representatives drawn from social sectors, out of safety concerns.

The state officials in the team are Paradorn, Special Branch Police commissioner Saritchai Anek-wiang, deputy permanent secretary for defence Nipat Thonglek, Internal Security Operation Command officer Nakrob Boonbuathong, Southern Border Provinces Administrative Centre chief Thawee Sodsong, National Intelligence Office executive Maj-General Surawat Butwong, an unnamed representative from the Foreign Affairs Department's Department of Treaties and Legal Affairs and King Prajadhipok's Office of Peace and Governance director Ekkachai Srivilas.

Meanwhile, the Patani and Peace-Loving People Network yesterday submitted an open letter in support of the dialogue to Paradorn at Government House.

Core member of the network Hakim Pongtikoh said the letter reflected the opinions of more than 7,000 people living in the deep South. He said they backed Thai authorities' dialogue with militants on condition that no agreement with negative impacts on the deep South residents is signed. Thai delegates must not agree to withdraw military troops from the South or lift the emergency decree, Hakim said. Paradorn said proposals from his network would be summarised and forwarded to the Thai delegates.

In related news, an insurgency suspect identified as Abdulromeng Dueloh, 34, was found dead in a ditch early yesterday after a clash with security forces in a village in Narathiwat's Joh I Rong on Tuesday night. Police said an arrest warrant had been issued for him on October 21, 2008, in connection with the murder of state officials.

Security forces raided the village after a tip-off that members of a militant group ,which allegedly attacked a military base at Ban Yue Loh in Bacho district last month were hiding there. Two defence volunteers were wounded in the ensuing firefight. Some suspected militants were also wounded but escaped.

Meanwhile, the Confederation of Teachers of Three Southern Border Provinces, which is today hosting its fifth annual memorial event for 159 slain teachers and educational personnel, at CS Pattani Hotel, urged Thai delegates to push for an end to violence against teachers in the region. The memorial event will be attended by 3,000 teachers from across

nationlogo.jpg
-- The Nation 2013-03-28

Posted (edited)

Sounds like quite a jolly jaunt to a Malaysian resort to meet with a group of marginalised ex-insurgents all at tax payers expense. A great time will be had by all. Except those tax payers in southern Thailand who are suffering continual assasinations, IEDs, bike bombs ect ect ect.

MALAYSIA will help arrange peace talks with Muslim rebel groups in Thailand's south..............Malaysia is believed to want Thailand to label its southern provinces ''autonomous'' or ''special administrative areas'' but Thailand has so far refused the request. ''We need Malaysia's help because some insurgents are not based in Thailand, so Malaysia will facilitate by finding out who is involved and who is ready to talk,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/malaysia-to-help-broker-peace-in-thailand-20130228-2f92e.html#ixzz2OnWRVzly

post-46292-0-49370300-1364438258_thumb.j ''We need Malaysia's help because some insurgents are not based in Thailand"

post-46292-0-48141300-1364438661_thumb.j Sounds like some Thais are getting taken for a ride.

Edited by waza
Posted (edited)

Your alternative would be to just let it continue as it has been? Yes, seems logical

You prefer them making a token effort with marginalised players which is inflaming the issue and will result in retaliation from the real insurgent groups. That may seem logical to you and Thaksin. After all it was peaceful til Thaksin stepped in, I guess you believe his stepping in again will help resolve the issue.

post-46292-0-12619000-1364439826_thumb.j

Meanwhile back in Southern Thailand............

post-46292-0-83951600-1364440202_thumb.j

"The Thai government has asked BRN to stop hostility as a sign of good faith in preparation of the dialogues. That was almost three weeks ago. Violent occurs almost on a daily basis, as members of the Thai authorities are attacked and killed, along with low-ranking civil servants and civilians. This brings about the question of whether BRN is able to positively influence other splinter groups of warring militants."

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2013/03/24/building-peace-in-south-thailand/

Edited by waza
  • Like 1
Posted

Conjecture on your part, historical facts on mine. You are putting words in my mouth - hardly clever rhetoric.

As long as the Bangkok-based powers (and I'm not going down the road of 'oh those bad Chinese') do not address the problem nothing will change . . . using Malaysia as an intermediary is a step in the right direction, as Malaysia has shown itself to be a good mediator in the past for this type of conflict.

You can post as many photos as you wish to 'underscore' your point but they are not relevant in a discussion

Posted

Just a thought from a security perspective....Thailand is sending 15 high ranking govt officials to meet with Muslim insurgents....seems like a good opportunity for the bad guys to do something really bad. Not like they use bombs or IEDs to kill innocent people....oh wait, they do use bombs and IEDs to kill people everyday.

Posted (edited)

Conjecture on your part, historical facts on mine. You are putting words in my mouth - hardly clever rhetoric.

As long as the Bangkok-based powers (and I'm not going down the road of 'oh those bad Chinese') do not address the problem nothing will change . . . using Malaysia as an intermediary is a step in the right direction, as Malaysia has shown itself to be a good mediator in the past for this type of conflict.

You can post as many photos as you wish to 'underscore' your point but they are not relevant in a discussion

Those pictures are the human face of an issue you are so blasé about........

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Thailand opened its first formal peace talks with a rebel group from its insurgency-wracked south Thursday, as a fresh bombing killed three people in a stark reminder of the difficulties negotiators face. http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/16468108/thailand-rebels-open-peace-talks-as-blast-kills-3/

Edited by waza
Posted

Just hand over the southern conflict ridden region to Malaysia and be done with it. Clearly the insurgents hate Thailand and don't want to be part of it anymore - otherwise they wouldn't continue to kill soldiers, teachers and innocent bystanders.

If that's not possible, then why not at least recognize that area as a special administrative region? Make signs mostly in Yawi or Bahasa Malaysia and (mostly) replace the forcibly imposed Thai language signs that make the region look like it could be anywhere, like Nakorn Sawan or Khon Kaen or god knows where. Many other countries, to cite some examples like Canada, Switzerland, Italy and India have regions where different languages are spoken in different parts of the country yet everyone lives together mostly in peace. Hell, even in Thailand itself, one town known as Mae Sot on the Thai-Myanmar border has made more and more effort to become bilingual in Thai and Burmese, with radio broadcasts, shop signs, even street signs etc. in Burmese added to the Thai and English already there. And while I'm sure there's some effort being put into making Yawi/Malay etc. recognized in the southernmost border region, presumably it doesn't go far enough. Why force the southernmost border region to be Thai when they don't want to be? Or at least, when they don't want to be as Thai as they currently are? Even in Tibet, one of the most controversial regions of China, the Chinese authorities at least add Tibetan to all signs and don't just pretend that Tibet is just like Shanghai except it's in another part of the country. They also administer the area separately and it mostly works, despite the continued dissatisfaction amongst many Tibetans, which is a whole other issue I won't get into. Perhaps the southernmost region could also have internal border controls where you would get a separate passport stamp or entry permit, just like in Sarawak or Sabah in Malaysia? The Thai authorities could learn a lot just from their own neighbor when it comes to administering their country.

  • Like 1
Posted

Just hand over the southern conflict ridden region to Malaysia and be done with it. Clearly the insurgents hate Thailand and don't want to be part of it anymore - otherwise they wouldn't continue to kill soldiers, teachers and innocent bystanders.

If that's not possible, then why not at least recognize that area as a special administrative region? Make signs mostly in Yawi or Bahasa Malaysia and (mostly) replace the forcibly imposed Thai language signs that make the region look like it could be anywhere, like Nakorn Sawan or Khon Kaen or god knows where. Many other countries, to cite some examples like Canada, Switzerland, Italy and India have regions where different languages are spoken in different parts of the country yet everyone lives together mostly in peace. Hell, even in Thailand itself, one town known as Mae Sot on the Thai-Myanmar border has made more and more effort to become bilingual in Thai and Burmese, with radio broadcasts, shop signs, even street signs etc. in Burmese added to the Thai and English already there. And while I'm sure there's some effort being put into making Yawi/Malay etc. recognized in the southernmost border region, presumably it doesn't go far enough. Why force the southernmost border region to be Thai when they don't want to be? Or at least, when they don't want to be as Thai as they currently are? Even in Tibet, one of the most controversial regions of China, the Chinese authorities at least add Tibetan to all signs and don't just pretend that Tibet is just like Shanghai except it's in another part of the country. They also administer the area separately and it mostly works, despite the continued dissatisfaction amongst many Tibetans, which is a whole other issue I won't get into. Perhaps the southernmost region could also have internal border controls where you would get a separate passport stamp or entry permit, just like in Sarawak or Sabah in Malaysia? The Thai authorities could learn a lot just from their own neighbor when it comes to administering their country.

But, but but, what about the rubber, palm oil and tourism businesses. A lot of people paid an awful lot of money to get exclusivity on that in THAILAND.

Posted (edited)

Those are awful people down there in the five border provinces. We who are called fahlang by the Thais should be strongly advised by the Thai government, and I think our own governments, not ever to go near the area. Horrendous. There aren't many of us there anyway, but an official statement should be made. One of 'em down there who I'm sure doesn't throw bombs never the less tried to extort my government's passport from me. He finally quit on the idea when I read the riot act to him, i.e., the passport is the property of my government (the case in all instances of course) and that if he wanted me to contact my embassy to tell 'em some Thai Muslim in a southern province was trying to extort my passport he'd find himself in a jail cell being questioned by the FBI and the Thai special police. Awful. I got out of there without any second thoughts. Good luck to the Thai government in trying to deal with those awful people. Whether or not they throw bombs, the people down there are the plague.

Edited by Publicus
Posted (edited)

Conjecture on your part, historical facts on mine. You are putting words in my mouth - hardly clever rhetoric.

As long as the Bangkok-based powers (and I'm not going down the road of 'oh those bad Chinese') do not address the problem nothing will change . . . using Malaysia as an intermediary is a step in the right direction, as Malaysia has shown itself to be a good mediator in the past for this type of conflict.

You can post as many photos as you wish to 'underscore' your point but they are not relevant in a discussion

Only nine of the original 15 members of the Thai delegation turned up in Malaysia for a peace dialogue with insurgents' representatives yesterday. The dialogue is taking place at a police facility in Kuala Lumpur.............

Southern insurgents yesterday greeted the first day of the Kuala Lumpur peace talks between Thai officials and the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) group with a show of force, killing three rangers and seriously wounding eight others with a bomb in Narathiwat's Joh I Rong district................

Suemae is a suspected bombmaker who was arrested seven years ago in Malaysia and recently released by Malaysian authorities for unknown reasons. Waekama is believed to be adept with war weapons and Mudora-sae is an RKK (Runda Kumpulan Kecil) leader based in Joh I Rong. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/629316-thailand-live-friday-29-mar-2013/

Another stunning success from the PTP

Edited by waza
Posted

Those are awful people down there in the five border provinces. We who are called fahlang by the Thais should be strongly advised by the Thai government, and I think our own governments, not ever to go near the area. Horrendous. There aren't many of us there anyway, but an official statement should be made. One of 'em down there who I'm sure doesn't throw bombs never the less tried to extort my government's passport from me. He finally quit on the idea when I read the riot act to him, i.e., the passport is the property of my government (the case in all instances of course) and that if he wanted me to contact my embassy to tell 'em some Thai Muslim in a southern province was trying to extort my passport he'd find himself in a jail cell being questioned by the FBI and the Thai special police. Awful. I got out of there without any second thoughts. Good luck to the Thai government in trying to deal with those awful people. Whether or not they throw bombs, the people down there are the plague.

clap2.gif You're clearly a legend, mate . . . you must have scared them out of their minds by threatening the FBI on them . . . are you ex-special forces too?

Conjecture on your part, historical facts on mine. You are putting words in my mouth - hardly clever rhetoric.

As long as the Bangkok-based powers (and I'm not going down the road of 'oh those bad Chinese') do not address the problem nothing will change . . . using Malaysia as an intermediary is a step in the right direction, as Malaysia has shown itself to be a good mediator in the past for this type of conflict.

You can post as many photos as you wish to 'underscore' your point but they are not relevant in a discussion

Only nine of the original 15 members of the Thai delegation turned up in Malaysia for a peace dialogue with insurgents' representatives yesterday. The dialogue is taking place at a police facility in Kuala Lumpur.............

Southern insurgents yesterday greeted the first day of the Kuala Lumpur peace talks between Thai officials and the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) group with a show of force, killing three rangers and seriously wounding eight others with a bomb in Narathiwat's Joh I Rong district................

Suemae is a suspected bombmaker who was arrested seven years ago in Malaysia and recently released by Malaysian authorities for unknown reasons. Waekama is believed to be adept with war weapons and Mudora-sae is an RKK (Runda Kumpulan Kecil) leader based in Joh I Rong. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/629316-thailand-live-friday-29-mar-2013/

Another stunning success from the PTP

And you are quoting me . . . why?

Run out of pictures to 'debate' with and are now down to this? Brilliant, simply brilliant

Posted

Those are awful people down there in the five border provinces. We who are called fahlang by the Thais should be strongly advised by the Thai government, and I think our own governments, not ever to go near the area. Horrendous. There aren't many of us there anyway, but an official statement should be made. One of 'em down there who I'm sure doesn't throw bombs never the less tried to extort my government's passport from me. He finally quit on the idea when I read the riot act to him, i.e., the passport is the property of my government (the case in all instances of course) and that if he wanted me to contact my embassy to tell 'em some Thai Muslim in a southern province was trying to extort my passport he'd find himself in a jail cell being questioned by the FBI and the Thai special police. Awful. I got out of there without any second thoughts. Good luck to the Thai government in trying to deal with those awful people. Whether or not they throw bombs, the people down there are the plague.

clap2.gif You're clearly a legend, mate . . . you must have scared them out of their minds by threatening the FBI on them . . . are you ex-special forces too?

It needs to be said for everyone to know that the level of civilization in all the five border provinces is low. The five provinces are 800km from Bangkok and considerable distances from Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. I spent an evening with the chief police inspector of one of the provinces (great whiskey, man, blended in herbal leaves and other herbs and spices) who said the same as a police colonel and a major I'd met said, i.e., the population down there doesn't have much cognition (my word of course) of law, or of a normal respectful society. I am compelled to reiterate, civilization has not developed much in that always isolated area of nowhereland.

The guy who tried to extort my passport is an excellent example. He thought the passport was just another item he could exploit as if he were in the schoolyard trying to get another kid's lunch money. He had no clue of what a passport is, its owner, the nature of the document. It simply was just another "thing" he could use to get his wicked way. There's widespread ignorance there and, I dare say, stupidity. Indeed, I sat myself in my house one evening; upon considerable reflection, I came to realize that the vast majority of the people there live by no laws, no rules, no morality, no civility. At a certain point I'd thought they were anti-social, but, rather, recognized they are not social period. Their sense of society is all for one, one for all and every man for himself.

For all the horrendous actions taken down there over recent years by the Thai authorities from and in Bangkok - for which no one has been held accountable - there is the knowledge among many responsible Thai Buddhists such as the media, civil society groups and organizations, and others in the government, that serious wrongs have been committed, and that accountability must someday come. For the people in those provinces, accountability isn't ever a consideration.

I was down there watching TV with the guy who later tried to extort the passport. We were viewing photos of the dead from the Tak Bai Thai stupidity. The guy's a certified Tour Guide but his only statement viewing photos of the squashed dead was that no one would want to go there for tourism. The statement revealed to me a lack of sympathy, a ghastly absence of empathy, no sense of human life or of the fragility of human society and life. The Thai authorities, given their own awful behaviors at times, are hamstrung, past, present and future in trying to make accommodations with people who have so little sense of society and no consciousness of respect or rule of law.

(You shouldn't egg me on to speak so openly about my experiences and those horrendous people down there!)

And you shouldn't egg me on about my military background and experience, because once someone gets me talking there's no end to it. I was not a "lifer" in the military (a career type), but yes, I wuz special forces. I was an 03 (Captain) in the 1st Special Forces Group, which specializes in Asia and has been referenced in the thread on North Korea. My specialty was Intelligence Operations. However, as anyone in the military will tell you, the term 'military intelligence' is an oxymoron. smile.png

Posted

"Paradorn said the report was in fact released by a group that disagreed with the dialogue." and "Meanwhile, the Patani and Peace-Loving People Network yesterday submitted an open letter in support of the dialogue to Paradorn at Government House."

I foresee a very fruitful meeting with some of the multitude of groups and factions. Most likely those not prsent don't count, have no influence, form a 'silent' minority?

Oh, to have peace at some time

Posted

^ thumbsup.gif I'd retort but am now too frightened to, having only been an Lt in the Navy - most of that time spent in Brussels.

I knew you were special forces the minute I read your post . . . Oh, the FBI doesn't do much outside the US, by the way

Posted

Those are awful people down there in the five border provinces. We who are called fahlang by the Thais should be strongly advised by the Thai government, and I think our own governments, not ever to go near the area. Horrendous. There aren't many of us there anyway, but an official statement should be made. One of 'em down there who I'm sure doesn't throw bombs never the less tried to extort my government's passport from me. He finally quit on the idea when I read the riot act to him, i.e., the passport is the property of my government (the case in all instances of course) and that if he wanted me to contact my embassy to tell 'em some Thai Muslim in a southern province was trying to extort my passport he'd find himself in a jail cell being questioned by the FBI and the Thai special police. Awful. I got out of there without any second thoughts. Good luck to the Thai government in trying to deal with those awful people. Whether or not they throw bombs, the people down there are the plague.

clap2.gif You're clearly a legend, mate . . . you must have scared them out of their minds by threatening the FBI on them . . . are you ex-special forces too?

Conjecture on your part, historical facts on mine. You are putting words in my mouth - hardly clever rhetoric.

As long as the Bangkok-based powers (and I'm not going down the road of 'oh those bad Chinese') do not address the problem nothing will change . . . using Malaysia as an intermediary is a step in the right direction, as Malaysia has shown itself to be a good mediator in the past for this type of conflict.

You can post as many photos as you wish to 'underscore' your point but they are not relevant in a discussion

Only nine of the original 15 members of the Thai delegation turned up in Malaysia for a peace dialogue with insurgents' representatives yesterday. The dialogue is taking place at a police facility in Kuala Lumpur.............

Southern insurgents yesterday greeted the first day of the Kuala Lumpur peace talks between Thai officials and the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) group with a show of force, killing three rangers and seriously wounding eight others with a bomb in Narathiwat's Joh I Rong district................

Suemae is a suspected bombmaker who was arrested seven years ago in Malaysia and recently released by Malaysian authorities for unknown reasons. Waekama is believed to be adept with war weapons and Mudora-sae is an RKK (Runda Kumpulan Kecil) leader based in Joh I Rong. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/629316-thailand-live-friday-29-mar-2013/

Another stunning success from the PTP

And you are quoting me . . . why?

Run out of pictures to 'debate' with and are now down to this? Brilliant, simply brilliant

Why doesn't the Thai government recognize there's a problem and ban foreigners (and maybe even Thais who are not from that region for that matter) from entering the 3 southernmost provinces? Myanmar does it, so why not Thailand? Although you'd be an idiot to enter that area and there probably isn't a single foreigner (apart from some Malaysians) in there right now, but for the safety of foreigners, the government should ban all foreigners from entering that region and close overland access from Malaysia until the security situation has improved.
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

Just hand over the southern conflict ridden region to Malaysia and be done with it. Clearly the insurgents hate Thailand and don't want to be part of it anymore - otherwise they wouldn't continue to kill soldiers, teachers and innocent bystanders.

If that's not possible, then why not at least recognize that area as a special administrative region? Make signs mostly in Yawi or Bahasa Malaysia and (mostly) replace the forcibly imposed Thai language signs that make the region look like it could be anywhere, like Nakorn Sawan or Khon Kaen or god knows where. Many other countries, to cite some examples like Canada, Switzerland, Italy and India have regions where different languages are spoken in different parts of the country yet everyone lives together mostly in peace. Hell, even in Thailand itself, one town known as Mae Sot on the Thai-Myanmar border has made more and more effort to become bilingual in Thai and Burmese, with radio broadcasts, shop signs, even street signs etc. in Burmese added to the Thai and English already there. And while I'm sure there's some effort being put into making Yawi/Malay etc. recognized in the southernmost border region, presumably it doesn't go far enough. Why force the southernmost border region to be Thai when they don't want to be? Or at least, when they don't want to be as Thai as they currently are? Even in Tibet, one of the most controversial regions of China, the Chinese authorities at least add Tibetan to all signs and don't just pretend that Tibet is just like Shanghai except it's in another part of the country. They also administer the area separately and it mostly works, despite the continued dissatisfaction amongst many Tibetans, which is a whole other issue I won't get into. Perhaps the southernmost region could also have internal border controls where you would get a separate passport stamp or entry permit, just like in Sarawak or Sabah in Malaysia? The Thai authorities could learn a lot just from their own neighbor when it comes to administering their country.

But, but but, what about the rubber, palm oil and tourism businesses. A lot of people paid an awful lot of money to get exclusivity on that in THAILAND.
Tourism in the three southernmost provinces? What are you new or something? Unless you consider getting a leg blown off a "tourist experience" then it doesn't exist. In fact, the government should prevent all foreigners from entering that region (Myanmar has prevented most overland access to its territory for 50 years because those areas are too dangerous to enter although this is starting to change) so Thailand should follow suit in order to protect the safety of foreigners.

Rubber and palm oil is also grown in other regions - they are growing it well into central Thailand right now. Sure, southern Thailand has the best soil and climatic conditions for it but well, tough luck...it's not much use having such plantations when every other day one of your rubber tappers is beheaded. This should NOT be the cost of doing business down there. Smart Thai investors are starting rubber plantations in neighboring Myanmar, for example in Payathonzu, Kayin State, which is currently still closed to foreigners but Thais can enter on 1-day permits.

Edited by Tomtomtom69
Posted (edited)


Just hand over the southern conflict ridden region to Malaysia and be done with it. Clearly the insurgents hate Thailand and don't want to be part of it anymore - otherwise they wouldn't continue to kill soldiers, teachers and innocent bystanders.

If that's not possible, then why not at least recognize that area as a special administrative region? Make signs mostly in Yawi or Bahasa Malaysia and (mostly) replace the forcibly imposed Thai language signs that make the region look like it could be anywhere, like Nakorn Sawan or Khon Kaen or god knows where. Many other countries, to cite some examples like Canada, Switzerland, Italy and India have regions where different languages are spoken in different parts of the country yet everyone lives together mostly in peace. Hell, even in Thailand itself, one town known as Mae Sot on the Thai-Myanmar border has made more and more effort to become bilingual in Thai and Burmese, with radio broadcasts, shop signs, even street signs etc. in Burmese added to the Thai and English already there. And while I'm sure there's some effort being put into making Yawi/Malay etc. recognized in the southernmost border region, presumably it doesn't go far enough. Why force the southernmost border region to be Thai when they don't want to be? Or at least, when they don't want to be as Thai as they currently are? Even in Tibet, one of the most controversial regions of China, the Chinese authorities at least add Tibetan to all signs and don't just pretend that Tibet is just like Shanghai except it's in another part of the country. They also administer the area separately and it mostly works, despite the continued dissatisfaction amongst many Tibetans, which is a whole other issue I won't get into. Perhaps the southernmost region could also have internal border controls where you would get a separate passport stamp or entry permit, just like in Sarawak or Sabah in Malaysia? The Thai authorities could learn a lot just from their own neighbor when it comes to administering their country.
But, but but, what about the rubber, palm oil and tourism businesses. A lot of people paid an awful lot of money to get exclusivity on that in THAILAND.
Tourism in the three southernmost provinces? What are you new or something? Unless you consider getting a leg blown off a "tourist experience" then it doesn't exist. In fact, the government should prevent all foreigners from entering that region (Myanmar has prevented most overland access to its territory for 50 years because those areas are too dangerous to enter although this is starting to change) so Thailand should follow suit in order to protect the safety of foreigners.

Rubber and palm oil is also grown in other regions - they are growing it well into central Thailand right now. Sure, southern Thailand has the best soil and climatic conditions for it but well, tough luck...it's not much use having such plantations when every other day one of your rubber tappers is beheaded. This should NOT be the cost of doing business down there. Smart Thai investors are starting rubber plantations in neighboring Myanmar, for example in Payathonzu, Kayin State, which is currently still closed to foreigners but Thais can enter on 1-day permits.


True, tourism is virtually non-existent down there, except at transit points such as Koh Langkawi. A lot of us take the ocean route via Langkawi to Satun province immi from Malaysia to get visas. This requires a few days stay in Satun Towne, during which visiting tiny, confining and boring local islands on day trips kills time. But no fahlang tourists I know of go to those provinces for the expressed purpose of tourism. The tour guides there are tour criminals and their reputations are well known. They are mafia types who fail to recognize that, if they want fahlang tourists, they can't be always ripping them off. One tour guide tried unsuccessfully to extort my passport but quit on the idea when I started to call my embassy.

A European fahlang English teacher in Satun Towne opened a restaurant but got run out of it when the mob put a bunch of attack monkeys in the trees around it. There are fahlang there as a few mathayom schools have MOE certified English programs, but most of the teachers in the programs are Filipinos or Europeans. There's a long history of criminality, banditry, extortion, disappearances, lawlessness etc down there which goes back a hundred years. (Thaksin while PM tried to play on that when he used it as an excuse to dismantle Prem's successful reforms that calmed things down there, from Prem's time as PM.) Edited by Publicus
Posted (edited)

Those are awful people down there in the five border provinces. We who are called fahlang by the Thais should be strongly advised by the Thai government, and I think our own governments, not ever to go near the area. Horrendous. There aren't many of us there anyway, but an official statement should be made. One of 'em down there who I'm sure doesn't throw bombs never the less tried to extort my government's passport from me. He finally quit on the idea when I read the riot act to him, i.e., the passport is the property of my government (the case in all instances of course) and that if he wanted me to contact my embassy to tell 'em some Thai Muslim in a southern province was trying to extort my passport he'd find himself in a jail cell being questioned by the FBI and the Thai special police. Awful. I got out of there without any second thoughts. Good luck to the Thai government in trying to deal with those awful people. Whether or not they throw bombs, the people down there are the plague.

I really like reading these kind of posts.

Edited by Pimay1
  • Like 1
Posted

I thought PT had setting up a special admin zone as part of their general election policy last time around. Surely they thought the policy through before making it. No party would be stupid enough just to make stuff like this up without having a well thought through strategy in place would they?

Posted

I thought PT had setting up a special admin zone as part of their general election policy last time around. Surely they thought the policy through before making it. No party would be stupid enough just to make stuff like this up without having a well thought through strategy in place would they?

It was a policy that came from a party more interested in preserving their power and returning the head thief to Thailand to resume his draining of the coffers. The best thing tghey could do with him for peace in the south would be to hang him.

They could care less about peace in the south. Look at the thread on the interview with the new General placed in charge of the army down there. His plan is to continue on with the same policies as the last three or four years have had.

Not much hope there.

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Posted

Those are awful people down there in the five border provinces. We who are called fahlang by the Thais should be strongly advised by the Thai government, and I think our own governments, not ever to go near the area. Horrendous. There aren't many of us there anyway, but an official statement should be made. One of 'em down there who I'm sure doesn't throw bombs never the less tried to extort my government's passport from me. He finally quit on the idea when I read the riot act to him, i.e., the passport is the property of my government (the case in all instances of course) and that if he wanted me to contact my embassy to tell 'em some Thai Muslim in a southern province was trying to extort my passport he'd find himself in a jail cell being questioned by the FBI and the Thai special police. Awful. I got out of there without any second thoughts. Good luck to the Thai government in trying to deal with those awful people. Whether or not they throw bombs, the people down there are the plague.

clap2.gif You're clearly a legend, mate . . . you must have scared them out of their minds by threatening the FBI on them . . . are you ex-special forces too?

It needs to be said for everyone to know that the level of civilization in all the five border provinces is low. The five provinces are 800km from Bangkok and considerable distances from Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. I spent an evening with the chief police inspector of one of the provinces (great whiskey, man, blended in herbal leaves and other herbs and spices) who said the same as a police colonel and a major I'd met said, i.e., the population down there doesn't have much cognition (my word of course) of law, or of a normal respectful society. I am compelled to reiterate, civilization has not developed much in that always isolated area of nowhereland.

The guy who tried to extort my passport is an excellent example. He thought the passport was just another item he could exploit as if he were in the schoolyard trying to get another kid's lunch money. He had no clue of what a passport is, its owner, the nature of the document. It simply was just another "thing" he could use to get his wicked way. There's widespread ignorance there and, I dare say, stupidity. Indeed, I sat myself in my house one evening; upon considerable reflection, I came to realize that the vast majority of the people there live by no laws, no rules, no morality, no civility. At a certain point I'd thought they were anti-social, but, rather, recognized they are not social period. Their sense of society is all for one, one for all and every man for himself.

For all the horrendous actions taken down there over recent years by the Thai authorities from and in Bangkok - for which no one has been held accountable - there is the knowledge among many responsible Thai Buddhists such as the media, civil society groups and organizations, and others in the government, that serious wrongs have been committed, and that accountability must someday come. For the people in those provinces, accountability isn't ever a consideration.

I was down there watching TV with the guy who later tried to extort the passport. We were viewing photos of the dead from the Tak Bai Thai stupidity. The guy's a certified Tour Guide but his only statement viewing photos of the squashed dead was that no one would want to go there for tourism. The statement revealed to me a lack of sympathy, a ghastly absence of empathy, no sense of human life or of the fragility of human society and life. The Thai authorities, given their own awful behaviors at times, are hamstrung, past, present and future in trying to make accommodations with people who have so little sense of society and no consciousness of respect or rule of law.

(You shouldn't egg me on to speak so openly about my experiences and those horrendous people down there!)

And you shouldn't egg me on about my military background and experience, because once someone gets me talking there's no end to it. I was not a "lifer" in the military (a career type), but yes, I wuz special forces. I was an 03 (Captain) in the 1st Special Forces Group, which specializes in Asia and has been referenced in the thread on North Korea. My specialty was Intelligence Operations. However, as anyone in the military will tell you, the term 'military intelligence' is an oxymoron. smile.png

pretentious rubbish from someone who thinks they are better then others? american, right?

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