Thai Police Arrest German-Thai Couple For Opening Illegal School

[navara]

HOW do you open a legal school? Anybody has any info about this? I am sure that each farang need a workpermit.

[Beetlejuice]

Journalism at its finest.

1. His name is Ralf Wirz, not Vios. Reading abilities would help.

2. There is no such thing as a "work permission card" for a school.

Definitely this school had all permits.

How do you get "cheated" when a teacher has no work permit?

3. "One of the complaining parents, Mrs. Siriyaboon Songsaeng, age 34, said

that she and her foreign husband had sent her son, age 3 years old, to

study in the kindergarten level. The school claimed that if students

progressed and graduated from secondary school grade 6 at their language

school, they will be able to continue studying in German".

This is partly correct, a school needs to be in operation for 5 years, then it can ask to be recognized as an international school.

Why would these silly parents now loose their money, AND, in 5 years, the chance to send their kid to Germany?

4. Both Owners are wanted on 40 charges in Germany, correct.

Does this make the school "Bad"? Has anybody checked on the teachers? Would be much more important.

To panic now that it became clear what might be wrong with the "director" doesn't help any parents or kids.

I was planning to send my daughter there and followed up this story...

Maybe you are not so concerned about the welfare of your kids? But there is no way I would even consider sending any of my children to such an outfit. And who cares what they`re names are,.

Close down this so-called school, impose a heavy fine on this couple and then deport back from where they crawled out from.

[tingtongfarang]

yes , the armis don t want , thais study german

Wunderbar here we go again, blaming the Americans for everything. Maybe the Euro is having a crisis again? I guess you must be Deutsch, calling the Americans by the slang term, Armis, it is actually Amis but still do not see your point. How did you get the Americans to blame since this was done in Thailand? I am quite sure that if a school operated in Germany (impossible) without a permit it would be shut down and especially if the owners had pending warrants. Matter of fact you really cannot get a business license for most professions in your country unless you have a Meister certificate costing ungodly amounts of money and years of schooling before you can legally operate in your profession. In America the same applies for opening any school and of course if you have pending warrants it is hard to hide especially when you are the owner of a school which also cannot legal operate without the proper licenses and certification.

I believe in germany as a foreigner you dont need a meister certificate to open a business... atleast thats how it was but it may have changed,

In thailand payment to the relevent officials who come monthly is required, I have known of english schools and a korean oil refinery certification company who were doing this.

Edited March 29, 2013 by tingtongfarang

[Colabamumbai]

Is there a law in Thailand? please tell me about it.

When will some foreigners learn ?
It's so easy to learn what the laws are.
And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

[Beetlejuice]

Is there a law in Thailand? please tell me about it.

When will some foreigners learn ?

It's so easy to learn what the laws are.

And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

Obviously there is and it appears that this couple have managed to get on the wrong side of it, both in Thailand and the Fatherland.

There really is such a thing as the long arm of the law and if you have doubts, try breaking them, then you`re soon find out.

[Briandajew]

Journalism at its finest.

1. His name is Ralf Wirz, not Vios. Reading abilities would help.

2. There is no such thing as a "work permission card" for a school.

Definitely this school had all permits.

How do you get "cheated" when a teacher has no work permit?

3. "One of the complaining parents, Mrs. Siriyaboon Songsaeng, age 34, said

that she and her foreign husband had sent her son, age 3 years old, to

study in the kindergarten level. The school claimed that if students

progressed and graduated from secondary school grade 6 at their language

school, they will be able to continue studying in German".

This is partly correct, a school needs to be in operation for 5 years, then it can ask to be recognized as an international school.

Why would these silly parents now loose their money, AND, in 5 years, the chance to send their kid to Germany?

4. Both Owners are wanted on 40 charges in Germany, correct.

Does this make the school "Bad"? Has anybody checked on the teachers? Would be much more important.

To panic now that it became clear what might be wrong with the "director" doesn't help any parents or kids.

I was planning to send my daughter there and followed up this story...

Not sure what to make of this! The worrying thing is - 1: Pattaya, 2: Germans wanted on 40 charges - a bit strange, however, if the school is not some haven for Paedo's then it is probably a case of jealousy by the other local schools! My son has just had his results from a local Thai school (Private which we pay for) and is about 5% lower gradings than the National Average - which I believe includes all of the "Government" - "Buffalo" Schools - Education here is in a pretty sad state!

[Briandajew]

Is there a law in Thailand? please tell me about it.

When will some foreigners learn ?

It's so easy to learn what the laws are.

And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

Obviously there is and it appears that this couple have managed to get on the wrong side of it, both in Thailand and the Fatherland.

There really is such a thing as the long arm of the law and if you have doubts, try breaking them, then you`re soon find out.

More like "Try breaking them (the Laws) without having had the foresight to have paid off the right people! (And that goes for Thailand and Germany)

[Briandajew]

Is there a law in Thailand? please tell me about it.

When will some foreigners learn ?

It's so easy to learn what the laws are.

And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

It is called "CASH" all laws and statutes eventually come down to the one unequivocal LAW, there is probably a book held in the Supreme court with just one page and one sentence - "How Much Did Thee Pay" - All appeals, hearings appearances at court eventually have to be tried against this Thai Statute. Pretty simple really, straight forward, easy to understand, you don't even need a lawyer - probably better off getting a broker.

[tingtongfarang]

Is there a law in Thailand? please tell me about it.

When will some foreigners learn ?

It's so easy to learn what the laws are.

And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

Obviously there is and it appears that this couple have managed to get on the wrong side of it, both in Thailand and the Fatherland.

There really is such a thing as the long arm of the law and if you have doubts, try breaking them, then you`re soon find out.

More like "Try breaking them (the Laws) without having had the foresight to have paid off the right people! (And that goes for Thailand and Germany)

I find thailand and germany can not be compared, Having lived as a foreigner in germany for many years never did i come across corruption, In thailand it slaps you in the face around every corner.

[metisdead]

A nonsense post using all bold font has been removed. Use the standard font when posting.

[dighambara]

When will some foreigners learn ?

It's so easy to learn what the laws are.

And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

Thai laws reflect the fear that foreigners will actually do some good here.

If the people learn, then they will no longer kowtow to the idiots in power.

[bri1guy]

Sure a German school or any additional language school is a good Idea for a child did they have there own kids in the school too?? Any body opening any type of business or buying any condo land or doing just about any thing in thailand should have a lawyer look over everything 1st & see if licenses or permits are needed..

[Beetlejuice]

When will some foreigners learn ?

It's so easy to learn what the laws are.

And so easy for others to report them when they break those laws.

Thai laws reflect the fear that foreigners will actually do some good here.

If the people learn, then they will no longer kowtow to the idiots in power.

Total crap.

This concerns young children attending an unregistered school, which is the same as placing them into any unregistered day care facility with adults of dubious background.

These people could be pedophiles, child beaters, criminals and as in this case, wanted fugitives from justice.

The parents were right to have concerns and whoever reported them done the correct thing, plus the police should be commended and certainly not criticised for their swift actions in closing this outfit and illegal business down.

[Potosi]

yes , the armis don t want , thais study german

Wunderbar here we go again, blaming the Americans for everything. Maybe the Euro is having a crisis again? I guess you must be Deutsch, calling the Americans by the slang term, Armis, it is actually Amis but still do not see your point. How did you get the Americans to blame since this was done in Thailand? I am quite sure that if a school operated in Germany (impossible) without a permit it would be shut down and especially if the owners had pending warrants. Matter of fact you really cannot get a business license for most professions in your country unless you have a Meister certificate costing ungodly amounts of money and years of schooling before you can legally operate in your profession. In America the same applies for opening any school and of course if you have pending warrants it is hard to hide especially when you are the owner of a school which also cannot legal operate without the proper licenses and certification.

Bad example, Mr Wirtz wouldn't consider to open a school in Germany, qualified or not. Few parents in Germany would be willing to pay tuition fees, the government provides pretty good education for free. A couple of private schools exist for people with money to burn, but they produce snobbishness, not a competitive edge. The OECD states that public schools are better in quality than private schools in Germany. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatschule

Meisters (master craftsmen) are only in artisanry. A skilled craftsmen can establish or take over a business, but has to qualify to master within five or so years. It's about maintaining highest quality. We don't leave it to the market to sort out bad products and services, but limit the chance that the customer encounters one by our dear regulations.

[nullx8]

Why would these silly parents now loose their money, AND, in 5 years, the chance to send their kid to Germany?

because NONE of this type of school do have and will _ever_ get an accreditation from the german culture-ministry.

only 2 have it since the beginning of thai-time

- goethe institute

- chulalonkorn university

and even if this is going to change .. i doubt a school with wanted managing team will be short-listet.

does not mean the school is bad, if its remains open, the team has now a real chance to deliver quality proof (i guess).

[nullx8]

The question that begs to be asked is, "Why would anyone want to learn to speak German anyway?"

that is an easy one.

in order to go there (as thai) .. and suck on the goverments money titts/or the husband wallet, you have to speak "some" german to get the visa.

thats why german language schools are trendy atm

so learning german pays off, after you in the country with a permission to stay .. either the husband or the goverment will pay the bills

and if there is a child involved this can go on basically forever

enough reason ?

[Hanuman2547]

I was looking for the topic

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/626985-german-international-school-of-pattaya/

but couldn`t find it.

DisainaM, a link here (but only in german) and not a reliable source (sth. like the Sun in England)

http://www.tee-pak.net/hotels/video.php?title=Deutsche%20Schule%20Pattaya%20Betrug%20Ja%20Oder%20Nein.&id=QNESPSAwZtg&feature=youtube_gdata_player&area=pattaya〈=th

Samut,

"Correct his name is Ralf Wirz however the school has no

license at all has never applied for and will never get one neither from the

German nor from the Thai Education Ministry because the “school” doesn’t comply

with the requirements of the authorities; this is a fact!"

the Germans have no say what gets licensed or not. Its only the Thai ed. Ministry and they take it serious.

You might get away without a helmet on a motocy but no way you advertise a school and they haven't heard about it.

When i opened mine 7 people came to look for fire extinguisher, second toilet, book shelves, exits and so forth.

And nobody wanted money

Nobody wanted money? Are you sure they were REAL officials??

[ronthai]

Sorry, just got home DRUNK.

NO, not worry, I did not drive.

But maybe somebody on the GERMAN ThaiVisa cares to make this a TOP NEWS.

Let's get back to the Russians in Phuket, about 5% more interesting

[BrooklynNY]

Many Thai parents are desperate in putting their children in any language schools at an early age especially if that school looks promising. They can be easily convinced (scammed). Let alone that German man could not scam those Thai parents, he needed his Thai wife to help convince Thai parents. I believe she knows what went on. Only Thais would be able to convince his/her own country men/women with a farang husband as a credential back up.

I have read a Thai parents web board that many parents plan their children's future way ahead by placing them at an international language nursery so that the baby could speak a second language which is English. An English language nursery could cost more than 50,000 THB a year for a toddler age from 1.5 year old.

"The school claimed that if students progressed and graduated from secondary school grade 6 at their language school, they will be able to continue studying in German."

That nursery has to be accredited by the German school in Germany if the nursery offered a sixth grade education level equivalent to the German school standard. Also Thai parents have to obtain a permanent resident visa or a work permit to legally work in Germany or one of them is a German citizen or an EU citizen live in Germany, then they can send their child to study for free from Grundschule to Gymnasium.

I am surprised to see many mix marriage that farang husband assumingly not Germans have fallen for this scam. Any Germans know that it is free for their children to study in Germany until completion of high school level.

My comment is based on my living in Germany for 7+ years that my children attended kindergarten until the first grade in Germany before moving back to the States.

[DisainaM]

"The school claimed that if students progressed and graduated from secondary school grade 6 at their language school, they will be able to continue studying in German."

I am surprised to see many mix marriage that farang husband assumingly not Germans have fallen for this scam. Any Germans know that it is free for their children to study in Germany until completion of high school level.

...

Thats part of the german social system, if a Thai woman gets pregnant by a german,

she will get a german passport for her child, get unlimited stay in germany and also in europe, get social welfare of about 1.200 Euro every month, get the right, that her child will get the whole education system, including the best universities for free.

On the other hand, she has to live in germany.

About 50.000 Thais are living in germany, and an unknown number of Thais, having the german passport, and dual citizenship,

theres a thai friendly environment in germany,

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/07/28/national/Germany-lifts-travel-ban-on-fugitive-Thaksin-30161360.html

even thai karaoke clubs and a thai club scene have no problems, of having a front door label : - thai only -.

and at least, thai buddhist communities invested millions of euro, in building up thai wats in germany,

and Thailand's Crown Property Bureau (CPB Equity Co., Ltd) has the majority holding in the Kempinski Hotel group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempinski

there are certain ties, although many thai woman with a thai-german child prefer to stay in Thailand,

but want to keep the german education doors open for her child.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany

Edited March 29, 2013 by DisainaM

[71Cuda]

Quote: " Both Owners are wanted on 40 charges in Germany, correct."Does this make the school "Bad"?"

If this is an example of your situational awareness skills, consider asking others for advice before making any major decisions.

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed.

[attento]

Journalism at its finest.

1. His name is Ralf Wirz, not Vios. Reading abilities would help.

2. There is no such thing as a "work permission card" for a school.

Definitely this school had all permits.

How do you get "cheated" when a teacher has no work permit?

3. "One of the complaining parents, Mrs. Siriyaboon Songsaeng, age 34, said

that she and her foreign husband had sent her son, age 3 years old, to

study in the kindergarten level. The school claimed that if students

progressed and graduated from secondary school grade 6 at their language

school, they will be able to continue studying in German".

This is partly correct, a school needs to be in operation for 5 years, then it can ask to be recognized as an international school.

Why would these silly parents now loose their money, AND, in 5 years, the chance to send their kid to Germany?

4. Both Owners are wanted on 40 charges in Germany, correct.

Does this make the school "Bad"? Has anybody checked on the teachers? Would be much more important.

To panic now that it became clear what might be wrong with the "director" doesn't help any parents or kids.

I was planning to send my daughter there and followed up this story...

Correct his name is Ralf Wirz however the school has no

license at all has never applied for and will never get one neither from the

German nor from the Thai Education Ministry because the “school” doesn’t comply

with the requirements of the authorities; this is a fact!

Don’t know about you but I don’t send my child to a

school where the “owners” are having over 40 pending court cases including

fraud and violence and 2 arrest warrants; beside the so called teachers might

be good guys but are not qualified (of course we have checked on that) and therefore

documents issued by this school are worthless.

Answering the question “how we get cheated” is easy; the

school owners advertise and conformed in meetings that they are licensed but

are not; how do you call that?

Hmm, i ran a language school myself and went through the paperwork to get it licensed.

Not really easy and watched carefully by the min. of education..

I believe you can not open a school in Thailand for 1,5 years without having the authorities all over you,

after three weeks.

Lets put it this way, albeit i am guessing. They were licensed; but not as an international school. That could have happened after 5 years and the young 3 year old brat, then an 8 year old brat, would/could/should be going to Germany. Instead they blew it, as usual, and strain the legal resources, and complain, and feel cheated and so forth.

Quite impossible to open a school and have not done your paperwork.

That would be like Drunk Driving on Songkran, impossible!

Also i don't believe any parent called the police; somebody else did.

Because now they (parents...) lost all, money, school, deposits, the uniform, the hat and the stickers. Very smart indeed, unless they honestly believe they get some money back via court and such, in Thailand, from a German convict. Cmon, who would do this?

I totally agree that this guy is a criminal and should be punished for scamming 80.000 Euros out of this "Love-Clown", letting the money to pay for a house going through his account.

That guy was not able to open a bank acc. himself; so be it.

If 80.000 Euros lost makes you bankrupt (not that i like to experience it) Thailand is anyway too expensive for you.

I know, i sound defending this guy, but i don't. I don't even know him personally but get annoyed by the constantly false reporting of our media here and then by comments in this forum.

Preferably by Americans who do not stay here and give advice why the strong Baht will kill Thailand. (Bhat is a fine reference, then you know you are reading the professionals )

But that's another story altogether, Right?!

Nice of you to refer to their child as a brat. Lovely man.

Be careful. There is a gang of members here who take objection to the correct use of English. Whenever somebody suggest the correct use of an English word, he is in for a verbal mugging by the Anti-education brigade. "Brat" is, I am sure, a commonly used term by the Brigade members.

Edited March 30, 2013 by attento

[Ticketmaster]

The question that begs to be asked is, "Why would anyone want to learn to speak German anyway?"

In a sec. a moderator might remove this racial comment.

Unless, of course, you prove your russian/chinese skills.

And don't put ketchup on ALL your food, thanx.

"Racial"? English is now the accepted international language for trade. science and diplomacy. If a Thai is going to make an effort to learn a Western language, he or she will get much more bang for his or her buck with English than German. In fact, unless one is going to work to serve exclusively German tourists (who probably speak English) or is planning to seek employment in Germany, learning German seems to have zero purpose.

You must be extremely sensitive to have jumped to the conclusion that my comment has racial overtones instead of merely pragmatic ones. I wonder what it is that drives your sensitivities?

[joecos]

`Teaching` for fallangs, is quite similar to being a policeman for Thais.

Very very popular occupation in LOS .

[Ticketmaster]

The question that begs to be asked is, "Why would anyone want to learn to speak German anyway?"

that is an easy one.

in order to go there (as thai) .. and suck on the goverments money titts/or the husband wallet, you have to speak "some" german to get the visa.

thats why german language schools are trendy atm

so learning german pays off, after you in the country with a permission to stay .. either the husband or the goverment will pay the bills

and if there is a child involved this can go on basically forever

enough reason ?

Yes and thanks for the cogent answer, as my question was sincere. Your answer makes the motivation quite clear. I guess I was thinking from a "how to get ahead by working" point of view. I always forget about the something for nothing government tit that unfortunately motivates so many.

[mickymouse1]

I wonder why were they not granted a licence by the MOE etc ...I nearly went there to open a multi tongueS school for girls only !!!

[daveyravey]

Very difficult finding a good school in Thailand for kids that doesn't cost the earth. In the end we found a good school here in Korat for our oldest but me and the Mrs were appalled by some of the schools we checked out. We pay about 60,000b a year for extra english tuition now also. The funny thing is that when i check my sons homework his teachers english is quite bad.

[sirchai]

German? Why would a thai wana learn German?

Is it the Pattaya/German thing?

I taught German at two schools,(actually teaching English full time) more as a hobby because some kids wanted to. Just met an exchange student coming back from Germany where she'd been an exchange student for one year.

She's almost fluent in German!

Now she continues learning German at her high school, being much better than her Thai German teacher and she knows why she's doing it. Find it hard to believe that so many posters here don't know much about what's actually going on in this country and the rest of the world.

For those who're racist ( pretty sad that some people think all Germans are/were Nazis) and those who don't understand why Thais study the German language:

Germany is the biggest exporter in Europe. German goods like cars,PORSCHE BMW, BENZ, AUDI, VOLKSWAGEN, etc....then many other goods like food, technology, ( almost all brewery technology in Asia's from a well known German company).

A Thai being fluent in German/English and of course in Thai would easily find a good position working for a German company as a manager Making good money, plus many other beneficial agreements.

Such an educated Thai could also travel through SEA and work in other countries for German companies. Some could get a job in Germany,making a lot of money, and so on....

Not ending up as a 7-eleven clerk. Hope that does make sense to you.--

.

Edited March 30, 2013 by sirchai

[Ticketmaster]

German? Why would a thai wana learn German?

Is it the Pattaya/German thing?

I taught German at two schools,(actually teaching English full time) more as a hobby because some kids wanted to. Just met an exchange student coming back from Germany where she'd been an exchange student for one year.

She's almost fluent in German!

Now she continues learning German at her high school, being much better than her Thai German teacher and she knows why she's doing it. Find it hard to believe that so many posters here don't know much about what's actually going on in this country and the rest of the world.

For those who're racist ( pretty sad that some people think all Germans are/were Nazis) and those who don't understand why Thais study the German language:

Germany is the biggest exporter in Europe. German goods like cars,PORSCHE BMW, BENZ, AUDI, VOLKSWAGEN, etc....then many other goods like food, technology, ( almost all brewery technology in Asia's from a well known German company).

A Thai being fluent in German/English and of course in Thai would easily find a good position working for a German company as a manager Making good money, plus many other beneficial agreements.

Such an educated Thai could also travel through SEA and work in other countries for German companies. Some could get a job in Germany,making a lot of money, and so on....

Not ending up as a 7-eleven clerk. Hope that does make sense to you.--

.

You know, you folks really need to give up the "racist" accusation. You must be carrying around a xxxxload of social guilt if you think everybody who wonders why anyone would want to study German is a racist that associates all Germans with Nazis. Who would do that???

Sure, Gemany is an economic powerhouse and a big exporter. In the US, I proudly rode a BMW motorcycle and drove a BMW car. But everything was in English: Sales, service, the manual. Germany does its most of its international business in English. because English is the language of commerce. Most if not all Germans learn to speak English. So unless somebody is planning to go to Germany to work (or suck the government tit, as mentioned by one poster), thre is really no reason to learn German. You can learn English to go work almost anywhere, but German? Only one small, albeit successful, country in Europe.

Kudos to your Thai student who is now fluent in German. It has probably opened a few doors for her. But I would submit that having become fluent in English instead would have opened the whole world.

Edited March 30, 2013 by metisdead