Watermark Chaopraya Condo

[Gaijin]

Does anyone know this new development? (www.watermark-bangkok.com)

I have been visiting their showroom last week-end end as I am seriously thinking about buying a Condo in bangkok for investment (I will be leaving the country in 2008), any thoughts would be appreciated.

The price is around 70 000 THB/Sq for lower unit. Completion in mid of 2008.

Thank You!

[steveromagnino]

Does anyone know this new development? (www.watermark-bangkok.com)

I have been visiting their showroom last week-end end as I am seriously thinking about buying a Condo in bangkok for investment (I will be leaving the country in 2008), any thoughts would be appreciated.

The price is around 70 000 THB/Sq for lower unit. Completion in mid of 2008.

Thank You!

I've looked at the website, and it looks like an interesting project. However, it is not yet complete, and I am not familiar with the developer; however it does appear like they are working on it at a fairly decent pace, so it will probably be completed IMHO.

The problem is its location; it is on the wrong side of the river, and I don't know if you are familiar with Saphan Thaksin, but this is like one of the WORST traffic spots in BKK IMHO. Sathorn Road is often gridlocked, so the traffic is going to be an issue, no question.

Also, this is not considered to be the highest price area - for 75k on a lower floor you could be getting into a b+ level development just about in Sukhumvit or Sathorn area, admittedly not one on the water front, but certainly better for rental opportunity. I know very few people that would want to cross that bridge every day to go to work, especially not foreigners (and realistically to earn enough rental income on 75k per sq m, you are probably going to have to rent to some expat with lots of money to pay. Thai people with that sort of money will just buy it most likely themselves.)

It looks the right way to not have sun in the afternoon which is nice for heat, however most people want a sea/water view at sunset with the sun in the distance; that's why for instance Pattaya is in some ways a better location than Hua Hin and why people prefer villas on the west coast of Phuket to the east coast. Less relevant in BKK perhapts, but still an issue perhaps.

I know there are some other projects river side aruond that area, and possibly a bit further down the river as well. Ocean Marina Bangkok for instance. I have nil idea what any of these projects are like, but i do know a friend who paid less than 70k per sq m for the L&H development which is on the city side of the river somewhere near Assumption School I think and my guess is that the right side of the river is worth about 10k per sq m (total guess).

The ceiling height at 2.75m (If i read right) is relatively low for these days; nowadays standard trend of premium properties is around 3m.

[thedude]

the developer is Major, as in the cineplex people. this would be their 3rd project. the other 2 are The Hampton on Thonglor soi 8, which is already completed, and The Manhattan on Petchburi near Chidlom, which is also under construction.

The Hampton was one of the first condos to emerge after the crisis, and units launched in 2003 were quickly sold out. the developer set a new pricing benchmark with The Hampton with units selling above 70,000 psm. up until then, the pricing threshold for sukhumvit was generally accepted to be 65,000 psm. but in real estate, timing is everything, and the short supply in 2003 meant that everything was snapped up quickly. the completed building looks to have adhered to the high standards which the then new developer sought. So i think the developer's track record is okay.

i have seen the show units at The Watermark, and quite honestly i really like the layout of the 3 bedroom units and especially how the master bedroom has its own little living area. palmer and turner were the architects. at 75,000 psm, they ARE setting a new benchmark for this area, however seeing as there isn't really any comparable development on that side of the river, and also the high standard of finishing, river views and resort facilities on offer, i'd say its not unreasonable. furthermore, the old stigma of being across the river is slowly dying out. with the BTS soon to come across the Sathorn bridge, and the development having its own jetty and ferries across the river in 3 minutes, its worth arguing that 75,000 is relatively cheap while being still very close to the city.

i personally see Chareon Nakorn road as one of the up and coming condo districts. good sites within the traditional downtown districts are running out fast, and affordable units are scaling down to shoebox size with prices above 100,000 psm.

there are foreign investment buyers for the Watermark, but Steve is right about there being less expat interest, but i see this changing eventually. the demographic is more family than single expats with no kids. some families with kids at schrewsbury school across the river might be enticed, since the development also has a special river service to send resident kids to the school.

[stoneman]

Does anyone know this new development? (www.watermark-bangkok.com)

I have been visiting their showroom last week-end end as I am seriously thinking about buying a Condo in bangkok for investment (I will be leaving the country in 2008), any thoughts would be appreciated.

The price is around 70 000 THB/Sq for lower unit. Completion in mid of 2008.

Thank You!

As I understand it..The Watermark was originally constructed as an office building(maybe the reason for the lower ceilings) and, after being dormant for several years, was made into a condo tower. I have heard people comment that the electrical and plumbing requirements for an office building are very different that residential requirements. A lot of changes in the plumbing and electrical have been made after the decision was made.

Also with the SkyTrain extension next year, it should be easier to get across the bridge..

[thedude]

Does anyone know this new development? (www.watermark-bangkok.com)

I have been visiting their showroom last week-end end as I am seriously thinking about buying a Condo in bangkok for investment (I will be leaving the country in 2008), any thoughts would be appreciated.

The price is around 70 000 THB/Sq for lower unit. Completion in mid of 2008.

Thank You!

As I understand it..The Watermark was originally constructed as an office building(maybe the reason for the lower ceilings) and, after being dormant for several years, was made into a condo tower. I have heard people comment that the electrical and plumbing requirements for an office building are very different that residential requirements. A lot of changes in the plumbing and electrical have been made after the decision was made.

Also with the SkyTrain extension next year, it should be easier to get across the bridge..

i think you are refering to the Baan Chaopraya project which is on the same road near the Sathorn bridge. The Watermark is a completely greenfield development.

[Gaijin]

Thank you all for your valuable comments!

I am also concerned by the location even if I believe that the private pier and the future extension of the BTS line will make it less of a problem.

The view from the apartment I am thinking of has nothing special (I'll be lucky if I can see the river) but the price for upper units is almost double...

The facilities, the greenery and the "river side effect" (being not a native english speaker sorry if it sounds strange ) will hopefully make the condo attractive...

That's a bit of a risk to take though...

[lubi]

hi there,

i think that watermark is really a great project, visited their showroom and was impressed because of its holiday resort type facilities / lobby. that is something hard to find in bkk. in regards to location i like it much better than overcrowded and dirty sukhumvit and it will have good access to BTS, either via boat with own pier or in future via BTS extension sathorn. so far could not find something even close to match in bkk and now considering myself to buy. good luck with your decision!

[Gaijin]

Hi All,

So I finally took my decision and purchased one unit in....The Pano.

I was very close to buy at Watermark but I decided to buy a unit at The Pano after a friend recommended me to visit their showroom.

I was really impressed by the quality and design of the furnishing.

The project is set for completion in april 2009...long time to go...

The developer is a joint venture between a local developer and Fraser Neave (singapore). I just hope that the current climate against everything from Singapore will not have any negative effects!

[lubi]

Hi Gaijin,

congratulation, the Pano is another nice project. Have also visited the showroom and I was similar impressed. I am sure that the Singapore mood will not have any effect on this project. As you said - until 2009 is still a long time. For myself I have not made up my mind but still favor the Watermark at the moment. For the Pano my main concern is that its neighbor SV city is really pushing down the quality of direct surrounding. But I hope that the Pano is a bit cheaper to buy. Can you give me a rough indication for what price per sqm I have to calculate? Also what is the cost for the sink rate and maintenance? I hope I do not ask too much and thanks for an info.

[Gaijin]

Hi Lubi,

The price per sqm is close to 80 000 for lower units (below 20th floor) and the sinking fund is 600 bahts per sqm. The maintenance fee is 40 bahts per sqm if I remember clearly (don't have the documents with me now).

SV City is indeed a rather massive and uninspiring neighbor...but my unit is facing the river on the bridge side. Hopefully this new bridge will be """nicely""" illuminated at night.

I believe the location is good and I had a chance to stay in properties managed by Fraser and they are really professional so I do not worry about the whole management issues in the future.

Watermark is indeed a nice project but with so many swimming pools and other facilities I wonder if the developper will manage to keep everything well maintained in the future...

Good luck in your decision!

[lubi]

Hi Gaijin,

thank you for the info - really appreciated. Will make up my mind over the weekend and will visit both showrooms again. Will let you know once I bought.

[lubi]

Hi Gaijin,

made up my mind as well and finally decided for Watermark. Was a really tough decision because I like both projects. Finally I decided for Watermark because beside the Pano there will be another Phase 2 construction just beside with shopping center etc etc which worried me a bit that the whole place becomes to dense with too many people. At Watermark I liked the resort type style in the middle of the city. Prices are about the same. In any case even we do not become direct neighbors I am sure that we will be both happy with our investments.

[Gaijin]

Congratulations Lubin for your decision.

I am on the process to make the signature of the contract and pay for the 10% down payment but the euro/baht exchange rate is terriiiiiiible right now!

Hope the situation will get better by friday as my money is melting like snow in the sun day by day

[lubi]

...yeah, I have the same problem with USD vs. Thai Baht. USD is today on a historical low since the year 2000. I do not think it will get much better during the week, looking at the drop over the last weeks it will take some time to recover. Hopefully not toooo long. If you compare the currency chart from last year it was exactly the same graph like this year. Baht strengthened until April and then lost constantly. Hope this year will be the same.

[sfokevin]

Most prefer lower floors on the river for the view of the river activity

Here is a good website to keep tabs on construction status:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=116333

Edited April 16, 2006 by sfokevin

[sfokevin]

Edited April 16, 2006 by sfokevin

[skippy]

What is the payment structure for this project?

[nognoi55]

Thank you all for your valuable comments!

I am also concerned by the location even if I believe that the private pier and the future extension of the BTS line will make it less of a problem.

The view from the apartment I am thinking of has nothing special (I'll be lucky if I can see the river) but the price for upper units is almost double...

The facilities, the greenery and the "river side effect" (being not a native english speaker sorry if it sounds strange ) will hopefully make the condo attractive...

That's a bit of a risk to take though...