britmaveric Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 American man blamed for fatal road crash on Jomtien Beach. A high speed road crash now from Jomtien Beach Road, in front of the Rimtalay Restaurant. Police Major Satien, from Dongtan Police Sub-station was assigned to the case which involved a Toyota Saloona driven by Mr. Gregore Pommerenk aged 58 from America and a motorbike driven by Khun Wanidar aged 32 who lost her life in the crash. Mr. Pommerenk mentioned that the car was rented and inside the car, at the time of the crash, was his girlfriend, along with his American friend and partner. They were returning from a restaurant when, according to his statement, Mr. Pommerenk, initiated an overtaking maneuver but failed to see the oncoming motorbike. A high speed collision took place, killing the female motorbike driver. Police have charged Mr. Pommerenk with reckless driving causing death and the case is now in the hands of the provincial court, assuming an out-of-court settlement is not reached between the family of the deceased and Mr. Pommerenk. -Pattaya City News Tuesday 14th March 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobi Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) American man blamed for fatal road crash on Jomtien Beach......... They were returning from a restaurant when, according to his statement, Mr. Pommerenk, initiated an overtaking maneuver but failed to see the oncoming motorbike. A high speed collision took place, killing the female motorbike driver. Police have charged Mr. Pommerenk with reckless driving causing death and the case is now in the hands of the provincial court, assuming an out-of-court settlement is not reached between the family of the deceased and Mr. Pommerenk.... -Pattaya City News Tuesday 14th March 2006 If we take this all at its face value (and thats a big IF), how on earth can Mr Pommerenk escape his criminal culpability by coming to an arrangement with the family of the deceased? The mind boggles - this ability to escape punishment is yet another contributing factor to the high accident rate. My sympathies to the poor victim's family. Edited March 14, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 Mobi - thai way - dosh has more value to them than justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkeykong Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) He's probably still in shock, so I wouldn't rush to judge the bloke so harshly yet. Was she wearing a helmet? Was the headlight switched on, on the bike? Was the helmet in the basket? How fast were both parties travelling. Was he overtaking another car/truck or just another bike? Assuming it was a head-on we'll probably never know due to bike damage. Point being that that stretch of road isn't well lit in sections, and a bike without a light on (or obscured) would be very hard to see. In the UK/Oz/US the police and insurance assessors would want ALL of this info, whereas here you've got buckley's chance of that ever happening. Edited March 14, 2006 by donkeykong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maigo6 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Another life lost on the roads of Pattaya. Like Brit Maveric say's Mobi, it's the way things are done here, he will be able to pay the family and nothing else will happen, mind you, the poor guy will have to live with it all his life, and a 32 year old woman has probably left a husband and children on their own. My sympathies to all involved in yet another tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Sad story and it will probably end up more sad, the guy will get away, no matter what, americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times, like you say Donkey, maybe she wasn't all legal, but he didn't also and Maigo has a point here, he WILL have to live with it all his life and that's not gonna be easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Mobi - thai way - dosh has more value to them than justice. An unnecessary and stupid comment! It’s easy for us “rich” falangs to talk about justice but for the poor Thai who every day has to put his or her nose to the grindstone or go to bed hungry a few thousand baths even for the unpunished death of a supporting relative might be a better deal then just plain justice. Just think about the humiliation in that deal! Viking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 It isn't a stupid comment & is in fact the way a lot of thai people resolve death by traffic accident. So nothing to do with "rich" farang. Just the way the justice system works here. If the family ask for money, the guy can pay & he will be let off. My husbands family have had this situation & money resolves all the legal issues and exacly as you say, money wll feed their kids & pay the bills & a court case & trial wont. No humilation in it just practicality taking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobra Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 If the family ask for money, the guy can pay & he will be let off. Yes indeed, Remember the recent Thai pop star Annita, that while driving under the influence had an accident that resulted in a fatality, No jail time, just compensation to the family of the deceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajahnlau Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Sad story and it will probably end up more sad, the guy will get away, no matter what, americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times, like you say Donkey, maybe she wasn't all legal, but he didn't also and Maigo has a point here, he WILL have to live with it all his life and that's not gonna be easy... I'm not American or a supporter but your statement is absurd in regards to this tragic incident. Any nationality can choose to settle the issue this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Nothing is going to bring the girl back folks. Monetary compensation is the only course of action. I agree 100% with Boo bird on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 It isn't a stupid comment & is in fact the way a lot of thai people resolve death by traffic accident. So nothing to do with "rich" farang. Just the way the justice system works here. If the family ask for money, the guy can pay & he will be let off. My husbands family have had this situation & money resolves all the legal issues and exacly as you say, money wll feed their kids & pay the bills & a court case & trial wont. No humilation in it just practicality taking over. Yes you are probably right, the intention was perhaps to say that e.g.” This is a common way to solve disputes in this part of the world.” But still a less than prude feeling to see the back of the guy who killed your son or daughter leave the courtroom as a free man minus a few dollars that wont make a difference in his life as you stand there with your money, sorrow and “justice”. Viking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBWG Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 It isn't a stupid comment & is in fact the way a lot of thai people resolve death by traffic accident. So nothing to do with "rich" farang. Just the way the justice system works here. If the family ask for money, the guy can pay & he will be let off. My husbands family have had this situation & money resolves all the legal issues and exacly as you say, money wll feed their kids & pay the bills & a court case & trial wont. No humilation in it just practicality taking over. Hi Boo No solution is ideal, at least this way money finishes up in the pockets of the deceased family, rather than making some wealthy lawyer even richer. There are no winners in a scenario like this and no trial will put food on their table. TBWG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sattahip Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I hate to seem jaded but let's be realistic. There will be winners here. They will be the "authorities" who will oversee/enforce any settlement for a share of the money, likely much more than half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobi Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 It isn't a stupid comment & is in fact the way a lot of thai people resolve death by traffic accident. So nothing to do with "rich" farang. Just the way the justice system works here. If the family ask for money, the guy can pay & he will be let off. My husbands family have had this situation & money resolves all the legal issues and exacly as you say, money wll feed their kids & pay the bills & a court case & trial wont. No humilation in it just practicality taking over. Hi Boo No solution is ideal, at least this way money finishes up in the pockets of the deceased family, rather than making some wealthy lawyer even richer. There are no winners in a scenario like this and no trial will put food on their table. TBWG I have absolutely no problem with the driver (whoever he may be, farang or Thai) compensating the victim's family. That's excatly how it should be in a poor country, where the family would otherwise suffer serios financial hardship The point I was trying to make was that as well as paying compensation, someone who breaks the law should be tried in a court of law, and if found guilty, should be convicted. Its just not right that the rich should be able to 'buy' their freedom, and the poor get locked away for years. (I know this also happens in the west, but it doesn't make it right). This system also does nothing to deter rich motorists from taking more care on the road and having more regard for traffic laws and fellow motorists, as they know that the worst case scenario is that it will cost them a bit of cash. If the driver was in the wrong, and who knows maybe drunk, (and as I said before, thats a big IF), he should be made to pay - not just financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSixpack Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times Nonsense. But how fortunate in any case that Brits do not, wouldn't you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgen Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times Nonsense. But how fortunate in any case that Brits do not, wouldn't you agree? isn't that Howard from PCN in the first picture ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maigo6 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 isn't that Howard from PCN in the first picture ? Hahaha........... I can see the likeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 isn't that Howard from PCN in the first picture ? Hahaha........... I can see the likeness. Yes, not a hair out of place. But if it is him, he must have put on at least 100lbs since that pic was taken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 " americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times," You really don't like Americans do you? Touch of jealousy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonthaburial Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Its certainly a sad story, but no different to the hundreds of road deaths every day. Jomtien Beach road a nightmare,Very narrow, poor lighting, slow moving Baht buses, potholes, vehicles double parked, Motor Cycles without lights, Motor Cycles weaving in and out traffic irrespective of which way they are travelling OR even in the correct lanes, Riders with no protection such as crash helmets and on and on and on ! So many factors to take into account here and as such those who sit in judgement should stand back and take a deep breath and engage brain before opening mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobi Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Its certainly a sad story, but no different to the hundreds of road deaths every day. Jomtien Beach road a nightmare,Very narrow, poor lighting, slow moving Baht buses, potholes, vehicles double parked, Motor Cycles without lights, Motor Cycles weaving in and out traffic irrespective of which way they are travelling OR even in the correct lanes, Riders with no protection such as crash helmets and on and on and on !So many factors to take into account here and as such those who sit in judgement should stand back and take a deep breath and engage brain before opening mouth! I totally accept everything you say, and in fact this would be an excellent posting to the 'Driving in Pattaya thread, but we won't go into that. I was merely commenting on a system whereby the guilty can excape due process of law if they have enough money. None of us know the true facts, and everything that has been written here is pure speculation, and I believe has been referred to as such. Deep breath. Brain engaged. However I think this is a forum where thoughts, opinions and speculative comments can be freely aired. So back to pure speculation; given the driving conditions which you have so eloquently illustrated above, don't you think it was a mite injudicious for the driver to attempt any overtaking manouvre in such circumstances? It is a very dangerous road, and most of us are content to follow the slow stream of traffic until we are away from the beach. End of speculation. Brain now disengaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Boy Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I hate to seem jaded but let's be realistic. There will be winners here. They will be the "authorities" who will oversee/enforce any settlement for a share of the money, likely much more than half. who told u that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gburns57au Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 He's probably still in shock, so I wouldn't rush to judge the bloke so harshly yet.Was she wearing a helmet? Was the headlight switched on, on the bike? Was the helmet in the basket? How fast were both parties travelling. Was he overtaking another car/truck or just another bike? Assuming it was a head-on we'll probably never know due to bike damage. Point being that that stretch of road isn't well lit in sections, and a bike without a light on (or obscured) would be very hard to see. In the UK/Oz/US the police and insurance assessors would want ALL of this info, whereas here you've got buckley's chance of that ever happening. This post annoys me.....Thai driver vs farang driver and initially you call the dead girl into question. It was a high speed crash....a helmet is of little value in these sort of crashes except to make a pretty corpse. Even with her lights on it is unlikely that a collision could have been avoided, it is obvious there was no time for her to take evasive action. The guy attempted to overtake when it was unsafe to do so....and in doing so took the life of another human being...there are no excuses for that. To those who say he has to live with it for the rest of his life....well so do her family and possibly her kids and they did nothing wrong. The case is in the hands of the courts, if they deem that compensation is to be paid then so be it...If they deem that he go to jail...so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Mobi - thai way - dosh has more value to them than justice. An unnecessary and stupid comment! It’s easy for us “rich” falangs to talk about justice but for the poor Thai who every day has to put his or her nose to the grindstone or go to bed hungry a few thousand baths even for the unpunished death of a supporting relative might be a better deal then just plain justice. Just think about the humiliation in that deal! Viking Did it ever ocurred to you that there are thais with big money than anyone on this forum, and trust me there are many of them and some of them don't even pay or anything for their injustices, do you think that only farangs have money? I've seen farangs doing to bed with thier stomaches empty...Brit has a point and yes, it's a fact...Sad but true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Sad story and it will probably end up more sad, the guy will get away, no matter what, americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times, like you say Donkey, maybe she wasn't all legal, but he didn't also and Maigo has a point here, he WILL have to live with it all his life and that's not gonna be easy... OK ... What does the guy being American have to do with it? As was pointed out before same things happens when Thai's hit a motorcyclist! <this post ^^ looks a bit like a touch of bigotry :-)> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) " americans always do have a capability to get away with all they are doing most of the times," You really don't like Americans do you? Touch of jealousy? Maybe this will clear your thoughts: http://www.daily-news.ro/article_detail.php?idarticle=3249 I don't hate americans, I have american friends and they are good guys, I am just speaking on facts, you guys get away with it pretty much everywhere, you set the blacks on fire and you got away with it, you imprisoned "communists" for the government's own interests and you got away with it, you've evn used nuclear bombs in Japan and you guys got away with it, you've started war all over the world and you are still getting away with it, traffic accidents are not the top..., I'd like to know what would have happened if an american was on that motorbike instead of that poor thai lady and a thai instead of the american car driver? It's nothing that I would be proud of...sorry mate, no jealousy Edited March 15, 2006 by alexth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 5555 ... please ... THAT's funny!Comparing individuals to Gov's ... (and the Gov't of the poster would be as highly questionable) Looks like strictly anti-american sentiment (typical) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 5555 ... please ... THAT's funny!Comparing individuals to Gov's ... (and the Gov't of the poster would be as highly questionable) Looks like strictly anti-american sentiment (typical) I agree with you, when you <deleted> up, the govt needs to take you guys out, when the govt f**ks up, it's not comparable, I'm not anti american, I have good friends that are american and they are aware of that all soap opera you guys are doing and ashamed of it, I even have redskin american friends, real nice people...americans are not individuals, they're tax payers...small robots that listen to crap and build crap...You didn't even had the guts to conduct the war in Iraq, you needed brits for it, you guys just didn't have what it takes to be a soldier, only th high tech freaks and crazy business men, bringing their small dodgy corporations to rebuild and install the "democracy" to Iraq...you BUY everything intelligent around the world and then register it in th US...keep your pride for yourself, I'm not antiamerican, I'm anti stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) I would completely agree with Mobi here, if Thailand was a country with a reliable justice system, combined with reliable mechanisms to determine exactly what has happened and who is to blame! Living and driving here now for over 14 years, I know of no such systems in Thailand. A couple of spraypainted contours on the roads by a rookie traffic copper just out of police school will not give any investigators much evidence as to what has happened and who was to blame (if they ever would make it to the accident scene at all). Add to this the fact that the average Thai wittness will most definately side with the Thai victim wherever any Foreigners are involved. So until the system is capable of determining who is guilty in an accident beyonf any reasonable doubt, I sincerely hope that matters can be settled financially. I have been forced to pay for damage/injury in an accident once, I was not even present at! Somebody hit my motorbike while it was parked, and I was 20 meters away from it, but the copper showing up decided to believe a wittness saying that I pushed my bike onto the street without looking, causing the other guy to crash into it and get quite seriously injured (by virtue of not wearing a helmet). This was late at night, and no other witnesses available or nearby besides that guy and the injured driver... By Thai law this is called causing injury by being reckless, and this is a criminal act punishable by several years of imprisonment!!! If this would have gone to court, I would have standed no chance against a Thai witness, whose story was confirmed by the victim and the traffic cop by examining the wreckage of the bikes... In my case I was punished with having to pay several tens of thousands of Thai Baht.... It is a matter of fact, that any lawyer will advice you to cough up a sizable compensation to the victim (or family), as to have any chance of receiving a low or not guilty sentence from the judge...Even if you are completely not guilty. It's simply the only way out. Any guilty verdict on a criminal act, even with a very low sentence and the family compensated, will see your visa invalidated, and you will be deported! So until some form of reliable justice system is established over here, keep praying that the guilty can buy their freedom, because it is exactly this kind of streetjustice which might keep you out of jail one time for something you are completely not to blame for.... And we do have to realize that a wittness like in my case is not realy out to harm me, or is angry at me. He just feels it's reasonable to change the story a tiny bit so that the Farang with his loads of money will have to cough up compensation for that poor Thai bugger. He will most certainly not realize what grief he might be bringing me, but unfortunatley this "face" thing over here will make it impossible for him to ever change his story once it left his mouth! Edited March 15, 2006 by monty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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