Udon A Sex Tourist Location?

[ray23]

Cobra Gold a few years back seemed to change Udon in one way, a lot more sex tourist coming to town. Searching out cheap adventures with beautiful young girls, primarily bought here for the Thia's, from Laos.

All of sudden a very different kid of farrang was everywhere, different in that this was not thier homes and the approach was much more like the Pattaya scene then Issan. There were in fact several houses here for years dedicated to the local Thai's who for the most part didn't seem to care if the occasional farrang was intruding to thier territory. Although the money was appreciated, the drunken rude behavior was not. Yes from what I'm told there is a code of acceptable behavior even the houses.

All of Sudden Udon was listed on the world sex guide, Udon is a large City. But, in comparison to the tourist spots very subdued. As locals we started seeing mugging's going on, farrangs fighting with Thai's. A little section of bars known locally as little Pattaya. Also an increased number of house's where girls were standing outside on the street, doing what they do best looking beautiful. In other words in your face sex establishments.

The end result of this, this place has been closed down tighter then a drum, a local night club recenly was shut down for 60 days for being to much in your face. I have been to the night club in the past with friends. They had some cute dancers a good rock and roll band, they were wearing sexy street clothes not even down to bikinis. A place you could actually take your wife and enjoy some drinks with friends and good music.

The Houses themselves are dark fo the most part as I'm hearing and not very farrang friendly these days.

For us local farrangs at least this one I believe that Thailand offers many places for sex tourist to enjoy themselves, But, the Thais and the majority of who live here really don't want to see Udon go the way of Pattaya. Not a moral judgment just why we moved here in the first place as opposed to Pattaya.

The Thai's in the area seem to be sending a serious message this is not a sex tourist destination.

If I were a tourist in this area these days I would give serious thought before going to these houses anymore. at best I think you would be very disappointed,at worst you might find yourself in trouble you don't want.

From my point of view I'm happy to see Udon being Udon., not Pattaya.

I know there are many who will disagree with my thoughts but thats what forums are about and this is my home. What I want here is probably no different then what most want in thier homes areas. Vacation's are a different aspect of life. I enjoy Pattaya on occasion just a used to enjoy Las Vegas on occasion, but I don't don't want my home to be like either one.

[TokyoT]

Kind of hypocritical of the locals IMHO. Quite a few Udon girls working the trade in Pattaya and Bangkok. So it appears it is OK for the folks to bus the girls out of town to ply their wares, but not OK for the trade to be moved into their own backyard. Especially since the trade has been going long and strong in regard to servicing the locals. But now maybe too many farang???

Did someone say something about face???

[BKK90210]

This is just plain sick sick sick! What is happening to Thailand, it's getting worse and worse everyday.

Darn for those pervert sex tourists out there….there is more to Thailand than the big elephants and hot women.

And to all Thai ladies: close your legs to the enemy!

Gosh….I very don’t know who is to blame anymore …..

isaan girls?..... Thai men…. farang men….or the government?

May be somebody can shed some light into this?

[TokyoT]

BK90210:

There is some logic behind why it is known as “the oldest profession”.

Not sure where you are from or how much you have traveled. But the sex industry is wide spread, and there is little that countries and/or governments can do about it. As many European countries have found out it is better to regulate it than attempt to abolish it.

Another member of this board (Kat) has proven to be fairly knowledgeable in regard to this matter, and maybe she will attempt to answer your question in regard to blame.

As for me I think there is more than enough blame to go around and not really worth pointing the finger in any one direction.

Part of my point in the earlier post was that the industry has been present in Udon probably as long as there have been people in Udon. So I think the real problem the powers that be have is not with the industry in the area, but having farang participate. Maybe not even a problem with farangs in general but the “type” of farang the industry appears to be bringing to Udon.

[PREM-R]

About 30 - 40 years ago there was a huge USAF airbase right in the middle of Udon, the place was full of 1,000s of americans who were invoved in the "SEA campaign". It seems to me that the "oldest profession" would be well and trully 'in the swing' at that time and is it is not a 'new' phenomena to the city of Udon.

[ray23]

Tokyo T, hypocritical no, the Thai way, as you probably realize all the girls from here go to Bangkok and Pattaya and sell soup and make a 100K a month for doing it. Nothing unusual about the attitude, the girl in the business here are not from Udon, most are from Lao. Your very right it is a face thing.

Nor is that farrangs participate as I said before not a moral judgement at all. The problem is people come to the real Thailand without learning how to conduct themselves without creating problems. What is the norm in behavior in Pattaya or Bangkok is, doesn't neccesarily work in Udon. When the girls are working in Pattaya or any of the tourist spots they conduct themselves much differently then when they are in the village. If all you know is how to interact in Pattaya your going to be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole here.

Which really stands out, after a while those of us that do live here have taken the time to fit in with the community are looked upon the same as the sex tourist. That I don't enjoy, nor do most of the farang people who live here, that I know. We have many people moving from the tourist locations for a different lifestyle.

The fact that prostitution exists in Thailand on the scale it does is hypocritical, it is not a legal activity here, hard to believe sometimes but it's not. Not only will the Thais never say thier daughters are working in the sex industry, most of the farrang who have bar girls for wives admit it either. So yes it is a face thing.

Maybe the difference could be the appraoch to the worlds oldest profession, Thais utilize these facilities quietly. Gain another face saving thing. Now on the other hand the sex tourist comes here, he's got two weeks to let go, because he has no one to answer to. His next door neighbors wife isn't going to be saying to his wife, hey! guess where I saw your husband. Therefore it's no holes barred.

\

Well the Thai's here including the one's married to farangs would say guess where I saw your husband, just to watch the fireworks.

So although things were done here before it was much more subdued. Hence the house paid thier tea money, customers were happy, the house made money, the girls made money and life went on.

Now that it became a in your face activity, the customers aren't happy ( Thai's), the house isn't making money and the girls aren't making money and life is not the same. Now who do you think the Thai community blames for this. Not the police, the farrangs, of which I happen to be one. I remember my first impression of Udon five years ago, all those smiling faces, well I certianly don't see as many today. You see a guy comes here, blows a ton of money is insulting to people more then likely simply because he doesn't understand the community. He leaves back to his real world. But, those of us who live here are left to live in the image he has left for us, with the Thai people in the community.

The only thing I can figure out is, that more then likely someone here in Thailand made a choose along time ago, we want the money, but we don't want it in our face, so they tolerated the industry in specific areas. When it moves out of those areas on a large scale the they act. Or at least thats what looks like happened here. Could be very wrong just my guess.

But if everything is provided for farrangs in a different location why try to change this one?

I can assure you the local people who are the Thai's don't want it. You see the industry here was much different then the tourist location never was geared for the farrangs, it was for the Thai people and a very different ball game. A game that has been played by thier rules for many may generations.

This is thier country I'm simply a very happy guest, they should have thier country the way they want it. It's not place to tell Thai's how to conduct thier country. I don't like I can leave most of them can't.

Look at this way, who lost in this deal the sex tourist who brought all the heat down, I doubt it, he can go to the tourist loaction with very little difficulty. The Thai's who enjoyed thier little secert world are the ones who lost.

So for me I liked it the way the way it was before. This really never was a sex tourist place but for some reason, things made it look like it was. You could never have found the excitment and vitality in the industry here that you could find in Pattaya. Now for all intents and purposes it is really a buried aspect of life and unless you know the area very well your simply not going to be able to endulge in that side of life

[TokyoT]

Ray23

Udon is far from your typical Issan village. It has it’s own airport, a decent sized shopping mall, train station, fairly decent main roads, a cinema, Makro, Big-C, Tesco, etc. Udon is growing and with that growth will come changes. Do the Thai’s have a right to try and control how Udon changes - absolutely. It is there city and they need to take charge of how they want it to grow/change.

But the sex industry has been in Udon much longer than the farang has been in Udon.

I would disagree to a point in regard to how “behind closed doors” you portray the local sex scene. There is at least one soi there (I do not rember the name) that caters to the locals and the girls have always been out and about on that soi (in the evenings). Also the bright neon lights of a couple of the message places can hardly been seen as low key.

I would agree that the farang scene is much more in-your-face however. Why is this though? I think it is because of the language/communication issues. And as you point out the farang tourist will only be in town for a short period of time. Therefore the people that want to provide this industry to the farang is forced into a more ‘in-your-face” kind of advertising. They are competing against each other to draw in the farang. So the shop house that the locals knew to be in the business now needs to have a half naked girl out front so that the farang knows they are in the business. If they did not want the farang business they would not need a half naked girl standing out in front.

As you point out part of the problem is a general lack of understanding from the tourist in regard to Thai culture. This I think is a problem outside of the sex industry issue. Udon is growing, and is more well known in the tourist community than ever before (note I said tourist and not sex tourist). Some farang have found Udon a nice stop over location between Thailand and Laos. As you point out the acceptance of the conduct of tourists in Bangkok is on a different level to that in Udon. Is it likely the tourists are going to change? Are more and more tourists going to become better educated about the culture they are visiting? I doubt it.

Udon is really faced with two problems:

1) The increasing number of farangs visiting and the general disrespect that many tourists have for the culture they are visiting.

2) The growth of the sex industry both Thai and Farang

As far a problem number one, I think there is little that can be done in regard to this issue. Tourist a pretty much a pain in the a** all over the world. And this is not likely to change in Udon.

For problem number two I think Udon’s best hope would be to try and keep the industry in the entertainment districts (like high tech plaza, or that strip across from Robinsons), and strictly keep the industry contained inside these districts.

[britmaveric]

Unfortunately bigger powers at work here, its all about the dosh.

[ray23]

TokoyoT

I couldn't agree with you more I think you have sumed it very well.

As far as the sex industry for the moment it is under control as the Thai want it. It won't go away, but I don't believe it will ever br available to farrangs as it once was.

The people who visit our community to learn the more traditional Issan life are more then welcome, truth is just as anything else it was just a few who changes things.

Many farrangs end up here because of the girls they meet in the bar industry, I would never have ben here without that, I'm grateful for that. The one who brought me here is long gone and is assume back in the bars. I owe her she sowed me where I would retire.

It's a funny thing when I came here the first time a lot less farrangs and the old timers complained about he number of farrangs moving here. That aspect has not changed. One of the things that I do enjoy is meeting people from all parts of the world and having them for neghbors. I have met people from Germany, England, Australia, Denmark, Nederlands, Sweden and Isreal. Most have been wonderful people. this is thier home just a much as mine.

For the Thai side of life I perfer to adapt where I can.

You can still enjoy what I saw in Udon five years ago, just have to go to the villages too do it.

I doubt that Udon will stop growing with farrangs, the baby boomers from world war two and beyond are retiring. They have found Udon, just a I did.

Many of the changes are for the better, now from time to time you can see english movies, most of the foriegn foods can now be found here that before you had to make a Bangkok run to get, still some that require that but a lot less. So new people bring these.

For us who have experience here, we don't get double charged because we know what the prices are and have developed trades people that treat us fairly.

This is a large city, that still holds it's Issan flavor, it makes it a very unique place I for one hope it doesn't lose that.

Devious person that I am, I was really sending a message to the sex tourist there are much much better places to go if that is your only goal. Personally if I were looking for just that I would go to Pattaya and I know whats here. Your going to find a lot more there then here. Most of the girls there speak english and they don't here. They know how to play the games that make it a challenge and fun. that is not something you will see here unless you meet one of the girls who worked there before.

I have seen posts where guy are looking for that fresh young thing, like they grow on a tree waiting to picked for a few hundred baht. The locals here always tell sure them come on down we got lots of um, but bring the money for the sin sod, get ready to get married, and you better like the family, because that goes with the deal.

There are some Pros here just as anywhere else. But the majority of girls here a above described are not about a few baht and a one night stand. I almost gave up here when I first came these country girls were eating me alive. The Udon ladies were much smarter then I was, I finally met a girl who wanted a life, not a new cell phone and things have been wonderful every since.

There are soome wonderful women in Isan but anyone who thinks they are stupid and subserveant is in fro a real education. Guys giving up here after being put through the grinder is very common. Not as easy to meet women here as one would think, lots of prospects, but for the most part beyond hello how are you they don't speak englsih. It takes a big comittment to have a sucessful life here.

My advice would be if you want to build a real life in Thailand, then Issan is the place to be. You want to play there are much better places for that.

Bret they will get the dosh, but I don't think from here, the clamps are down for some reason.

[Nawtilus]

This is just plain sick sick sick! What is happening to Thailand, it's getting worse and worse everyday.

Darn for those pervert sex tourists out there….there is more to Thailand than the big elephants and hot women.

And to all Thai ladies: close your legs to the enemy!

Gosh….I very don’t know who is to blame anymore …..

isaan girls?..... Thai men…. farang men….or the government?

May be somebody can shed some light into this?

The Christians and Muslims are to blame mostly.

The whole idea of the secret dark house is not to shine the light on the shed toooo much.

[game4shame]

And to all Thai ladies: close your legs to the enemy!

enemy? bit of a harsh generalisation IMO

[BKKstan]

There was a article on Stickman recently where the sex tourist described his short vacation in Udon.Made it sound like the ideal spot for S/T's.I understand the hpouses were closed shortly after this article.

[ray23]

I have heard of the article, have never seen it. I would be interesting to read and see how accurate it really was.

Actually there were several things that I believe that the situation to where is today As TokoyoT points out Udon is growing.

Cobra Gold was not normally held here until a few years ago, it had a huge impact on one farrang business here who managed to get the catering contract with the U.S. actually pays his entire nut for the year, during the troops stay.

Along with the troops came a trippling of farrang bars in the area. some of which were Pattaya people coming here to establish businesses. My understanding is they did well during Cobra Gold, how they survived the balance of the year I have no idea. Most are not airconditioned and the heat can really be rough here during a good part of the year. They ended up in a little strip across the street from the Robinson complex. I probably walk through three times a week, primarliy in the day time, very subdued operation. I guess I need to go check things out at night and see what is going on. But from what I have seen not an in your face operations. Certainly nothing like you will see in Pattaya, usually expats sitting around complaining or trading war stories. Or just seeing who can tell the biggest lie

I understand that there were many compliants about the troops in the community, I didn't see it have no idea if it were accurate or not. I'm told that by the local VFW service officer that a directive came out that if any complaint was filed against a DOD this includes troops involving prostitutes it could result in a Dishonarable Discharge, that is certainly much more severe then anything that existed when I was in the Military.

Cobra Gold was already due to begin and infact there are many more Thai troops in town, but no Americans. The most severe police action was recently and I'm told not by Udon Police but Bangkok officers. True, I don't know I'm learning not to accept everything that floats around the farrang community.

I know that had you driven through the area where the houses were located in the daytime a few years back you would never have known what was going on at all. At night the girls could be seen sitting inside if you knew where to look. I have a friend that travels all over the region, Lao Cambodia and Thailand and has been on that visa run for about twenty years. When he is in town I try to make an effort to get out and about with him at least once. Interesting fun guy and I always try to get out I see his version of Thailand very different then mine these days. Anyway we rode through an area that I didn't even knew existed all of a sudden there was a solid block of little beauty's standing outside in mini skirts yelling at us to stop. Very much in your face action.

When I retired here as single guy three and a half years ago. I recalled how disappointed I was that the women were not a aggresive as I had seen in Pattaya. But they weren't, if you didin't make a move nothing was going to happen, other the a smile. But in those days it seemed like everyone I saw had a smile on thier faces. So it was difficult to determine what that really meant and here were these little cuties yelling at passerby's. You can drive down that street tonight and you won't see it.

A lot that I talk about here is from the individual that I spoke of, I'm a very boring married guy these days. The guy I'm speaking of speaks fluent Thai, and is verry attuned to the customs of Issan and really knows how to conduct himself in these establishments. If did not have white skin, it would be hard to pick out from a group of Thai's. Has avialled himself of these places for years. Enjoy's sitting in the places drinking a beer and chatting with the Thai's and then picking out his sweety for the night. Now you would think that I was describing a sex tourist, not really the guy is truly is an incurable romantic. he falls in love on every trip, just can't abandoned his lifestyle. Even he was being refused entry into places that knew him well.

He explained to me that in the last year, he sees more and more farrangs in the places, being extremly rude to the Thai's. Which can be a very dangerous activity here, making a Thai lose face especially when there is booze flowing can turn deadly. But these guy are big foriegners thinking they could take anyone in the place and they probably could. But they can't defeat twelve of them many a farrang lately has found themsleves explaining getting the rear ends to the police or being taken care of at local hospitals. Thai's get quietly drink for the most part with thier friends, they are not yelling at eachother and frankly Thai's really don't undertand this bahavior they just don't normally don't do things like this. Then you got farangs talking about how ugly, stupid or cheap these girls are. Again something that Thia's are not accustomed to. Farrangs grabbing the girls rear ends Ect, you just don't see Thai's doing that. The farrang behavior resulted in confrontations, where police were summoned. Again in your face activities.

When I first came here I had to and wanted to learn how the Thai's went about life, so I spent very little time in farrang bars, don't drink that much anyway and traveling by motorcycle, it just wasn't a good idea to get drunk. I would go out by myself I might drink water or a coke, I noticed that the thai guys were not paticulary aggressive in the bar scene, when a Thia got drunk his freinds and usually the girls in the bars would just baby sit him until he fell asleep. Not aggressive at all. I went to these places and tried to talk with the girls people watch and on occasion if one really caught my eye I would take them home for the evening. You had to really be careful about that, these girls really looked young. Most were from Lao, where they were working off loans for the family. some for the first time in thier lives had money, the mandantory cell phone, nice clothes and makeup. They had already paid off the loans and choose to stay. Probably the same thing before the crackdown.

Now first of all I never saw another farrang on those days. If I walked into one of these places there was a time frame that you could hear a pin drop. When I settled down with my coke and sit quietly for a bit, Things loosened up usually the Mama San would come over and ask me if I wanted a lady. I would normally reply that I was just enjoying my evening. She would eventually send some girls over usually the ones who spoke the most english. she would then tell me to remember the girls were working and to tip them. Which I did and also tipped the Mama San. because as she said it was a business. Most of the time even in those days I didn't take a girl out, but just enjoyed my evening. the Thai's there were very careful to make sure I was allright and friendly to me. I never once so much got into argument and there were Thai guys in the places drunk as skunks. I felt as safe there as I did anywhere much more then I ever felt in Bangkok or Pattaya. You see thats the Udon I knew and came to love. Don't think things are the same today and probably never will be. What a shame that something so simple and enjoyable is lost. The houses will open again, but I seriously doubt if a farrang is allowed to enter that he will ever experience what I did.

I remember on my first flight to Udon I sit next to a Thai lady who spoke good english who informed me politely but in a straight forward manner that she didn't like what farrangs were doing to Thailand. I asked her to explain she said they come here and want to change thailand. I really didn't understand here we were bringing in huge sums of money, they should be happy to see us. But slowly and surely I'm begining to understand what that lady was saying five years ago.

You see I think there is a time when you really begin to fit in here and you like or you don't it if you don't you leave. If you do, you savor a life here that is like no other and you want thailand to be the place you know just as much as that lady on the plane.

Well I certianly have ran my mouth enough for one day. if anyone knows of a link to that stickman article I would like to read it. I read one about Korat, he saw things much differently then I did in that one. Haven't seen anything about Udon.

[NedKelly]

I wont attempt to exlain the sex industry anywhere.....but i will comment on the reactions of some Thai guys in Udon to the behaviour and or simply presence of farang at bars and 'houses' !!

The word 'reaction' says it all...... people/communities/societies around the globe, 'react' in different ways to tourism. One of the wyas they react is to erect fences - not physically, but metaphorically - to protect their interestes.

One theorist describes 'boundary maintenance' as being the reactions that a community has to tourism - either negative or positive - to control what tourists can have access to. If you think about this in the Udon situation, you might summise that the local guys are just a bit pissed off that farang are coming in and getting drunk and th eusual stuff. It just looks ugly and very different. The reaction sounds to have been an increase in petty crime (muggings) and so on....this is very normal. Look at the example in greece where local guys starting knifing people after the drunken English naked sex orgies on the beaches there.

Anyway, reactions like this are normal and to be expected when there is an obvious increase in tourists seemingly coming for the wrong reasons. I suspect that these farang are not the type to be visitng small local village homestays.......more likely only where there is a bar and other farang to make them feel comfortable.

Thats my two bucks worth.

[ray23]

Hey that's worth two bucks

[LoveDaBlues]

Tokyo T, hypocritical no, the Thai way, as you probably realize all the girls from here go to Bangkok and Pattaya and sell soup and make a 100K a month for doing it. Nothing unusual about the attitude, the girl in the business here are not from Udon, most are from Lao. Your very right it is a face thing.

Nor is that farrangs participate as I said before not a moral judgement at all. The problem is people come to the real Thailand without learning how to conduct themselves without creating problems. What is the norm in behavior in Pattaya or Bangkok is, doesn't neccesarily work in Udon. When the girls are working in Pattaya or any of the tourist spots they conduct themselves much differently then when they are in the village. If all you know is how to interact in Pattaya your going to be a square peg trying to fit into a round hole here.

Which really stands out, after a while those of us that do live here have taken the time to fit in with the community are looked upon the same as the sex tourist. That I don't enjoy, nor do most of the farang people who live here, that I know. We have many people moving from the tourist locations for a different lifestyle.

The fact that prostitution exists in Thailand on the scale it does is hypocritical, it is not a legal activity here, hard to believe sometimes but it's not. Not only will the Thais never say thier daughters are working in the sex industry, most of the farrang who have bar girls for wives admit it either. So yes it is a face thing.

Maybe the difference could be the appraoch to the worlds oldest profession, Thais utilize these facilities quietly. Gain another face saving thing. Now on the other hand the sex tourist comes here, he's got two weeks to let go, because he has no one to answer to. His next door neighbors wife isn't going to be saying to his wife, hey! guess where I saw your husband. Therefore it's no holes barred.

\

Well the Thai's here including the one's married to farangs would say guess where I saw your husband, just to watch the fireworks.

So although things were done here before it was much more subdued. Hence the house paid thier tea money, customers were happy, the house made money, the girls made money and life went on.

Now that it became a in your face activity, the customers aren't happy ( Thai's), the house isn't making money and the girls aren't making money and life is not the same. Now who do you think the Thai community blames for this. Not the police, the farrangs, of which I happen to be one. I remember my first impression of Udon five years ago, all those smiling faces, well I certianly don't see as many today. You see a guy comes here, blows a ton of money is insulting to people more then likely simply because he doesn't understand the community. He leaves back to his real world. But, those of us who live here are left to live in the image he has left for us, with the Thai people in the community.

The only thing I can figure out is, that more then likely someone here in Thailand made a choose along time ago, we want the money, but we don't want it in our face, so they tolerated the industry in specific areas. When it moves out of those areas on a large scale the they act. Or at least thats what looks like happened here. Could be very wrong just my guess.

But if everything is provided for farrangs in a different location why try to change this one?

I can assure you the local people who are the Thai's don't want it. You see the industry here was much different then the tourist location never was geared for the farrangs, it was for the Thai people and a very different ball game. A game that has been played by thier rules for many may generations.

This is thier country I'm simply a very happy guest, they should have thier country the way they want it. It's not place to tell Thai's how to conduct thier country. I don't like I can leave most of them can't.

Look at this way, who lost in this deal the sex tourist who brought all the heat down, I doubt it, he can go to the tourist loaction with very little difficulty. The Thai's who enjoyed thier little secert world are the ones who lost.

So for me I liked it the way the way it was before. This really never was a sex tourist place but for some reason, things made it look like it was. You could never have found the excitment and vitality in the industry here that you could find in Pattaya. Now for all intents and purposes it is really a buried aspect of life and unless you know the area very well your simply not going to be able to endulge in that side of life

Uh.....Ray....the expression is 'no holds barred'

But; given the topic I like yours better

DON'T try to say you did this on purpose.....that boat don't float!!

[blue eyes]

This is just plain sick sick sick! What is happening to Thailand, it's getting worse and worse everyday.

Darn for those pervert sex tourists out there….there is more to Thailand than the big elephants and hot women.

And to all Thai ladies: close your legs to the enemy!

Gosh….I very don’t know who is to blame anymore …..

isaan girls?..... Thai men…. farang men….or the government?

May be somebody can shed some light into this?

Blame is placed on......MONEY and HORNY PEOPLE