Hot Hatch Summary - 2013 - Thailand's Latest And Greatest

[steveromagnino]

Quick summary of the hot hatches available as of now with delivery in 2013 (assumes performance around minimum 0-100km in 7sec, mostly FWD). I am in the market for one, so looking at the possibilities, anyone see something I've left out?

Benz A250 2.49m

- average reviews (mainly knocking the gearbox and harsh ride)

- doesn't include any free servicing unlike other cars

- probably a winner from depreciation perspective

Benz C250 coupe

- semi ok, but not really a hatch; around 3.Xm grey

- C180 coupe is available from Benz Thailand, but at 2.xm it's not going to be quick enough and the A250 is really the hot hatch from Benz now

BMW - missing in action in the hot hatch segment (the 116i is only contender at 1.8m but it is way too slow; 135 would be extremely expensive according to BMW Thailand); 328 is the closest thing at 3.1m

MINI - Cooper S

- currently around 2.8m

- reaching end of the production run for the R56, new model coming next year, hatches will still be built in UK so price is unlikely to move much

- a few GPs floating around in grey market for around 3m

- massively impractical size wise, quick and nice handling

Audi A1 2.8m 185HP available grey only

- nice looker

- a little impractical size wise (like a Mini)

- can get up to around 220HP easily with APR/ABT/MTM etc

Ford Focus ST

- featured on April 1 in Bangkok Post with claimed 1.3m price - unlikely to be a real story coming here (even though the focus is built here)

Volvo V40

- T5 new model released std spec 1.65m sport spec 1.8m at Motorshow

- questionable auto transmission system, will these depreciate like other Volvos?

VW

- Golf GTI mark 6 being sold now around 2m only but no word on when the mark 7 will reach Thailand

- Scirocco now also around 2m including R Line bodykit; bit long in the tooth now, but rumour is the new Scirocco will only be sold in Europe; perhaps VW will bring out a Corrado in the meantime to fill in the slot (total personal guess here) based on the MQB platform for worldwide sales?

- easily modified by APR/MTM/ABT to around 250HP

- highly reliable DSG dual clutch system, doubtful depreciation and not a huge secondary market, although loads of modifiers and parts available plus the people who own them seem to really like them

Citroen DS3

- Mini engined car for the handbag crowd

- questionable depreciation and servicing issue as it is a niche brand

Skoda RS Fabia

- hugely powerful 185HP brother to the A1 at a cheaper price (around 1.8m I think FP said)

- doubtful resale, tiny niche within a niche

Anyone can add to the list?

[frankphuket]

I think you covered it....can't think of anything else, too.

The Fabia was a good year ago around 1.5m, so I guess still good bang for the buck.

The V40 is kind of interesting, also I did not find too much info on the web about this engine....as the T5 is mentioned to have a 2.5l one; or did i get something wrong here.

by the way: reliable DSG my ass....at 10,000 km i found my GTI to having a bit of a burnt smelling coming in the car when it is pushed a little (just accelerating to 4-5,000 rpm). Put it on the lift and voila a little oil leak between engine and DSG box.....spare part 45 days to come. Grrrr. not impressed. This was the only thing which went wrong so far, it is also only 1 year old with 10,000km so you don't expect anything to go wrong. Nice drive, good quality interior.

[VocalNeal]

- can get up to around 220HP easily with APR/ABT/MTM etc

This is also available for the Skoda. Well Ok 205Hp. I notice Audi Thailand don't list the A1 any more! Obviously was too low class for discerning Audi buyers!

Edited April 10, 2013 by VocalNeal

[WarpSpeed]

Ermmm Mini IS BMW... I know that still hurts but it's a fact, it is their "hot hatch" offering and partly why they bought the marquee to enter that market without the actual BMW branding which doesn't seem to go over too well with the BMW faithful when on a hatchback..

Other then that what about the VW Rabbit now built on the polo chassis and offered in other markets? No indication of it being offered?Probably not, too low brow for their Thailand offerings..

Edited April 10, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[IMHO]

MTM still had the Audi A1 in their prices lists as late as Jan 2013 - not sure on the current status though:

A1 2.0L 7AT T FSI - 2,190,000

A1 2.0L 7AT T FSI SE - 2,290,000

The Focus STi story you read was an April Fool's joke - not going to happen, but sources do say an ecoboost version is still on the cards for TH, they just don't say when.. If/when we get that, it could have some tuning potential.

The Volvo V40 can be expect to depreciate just like all other Volvos - it will take a decade or more for them to gain reputation in the used market, but that decade doesn't start until they start putting in the effort..

[Ace of Pop]

What is the small Lexus all about.?..Supermini or what.?.

[Big Guns]

I think out of the list the only one which actually is a (reasonably sized) hot hatch is the Golf GTI. The top UK hot hatches e.g Focus ST, Astra VXR and Megane Renaultsport 250 Cup aren't available here.

[ignis]

Friend has a Subaru WRX STi hatch back, it is about 18 months old now, sure feels a hot hatch ?

Edit: if I remember right was well over 3 million... so not a every day priced hot hatch, but then is a Mini ?

Edited April 11, 2013 by ignis

[steveromagnino]

The V40 is kind of interesting, also I did not find too much info on the web about this engine....as the T5 is mentioned to have a 2.5l one; or did i get something wrong here.

by the way: reliable DSG my ass....at 10,000 km i found my GTI to having a bit of a burnt smelling coming in the car when it is pushed a little (just accelerating to 4-5,000 rpm). Put it on the lift and voila a little oil leak between engine and DSG box.....spare part 45 days to come. Grrrr. not impressed. This was the only thing which went wrong so far, it is also only 1 year old with 10,000km so you don't expect anything to go wrong. Nice drive, good quality interior.

Well that sucks! Sorry to hear, I have heard mixed things about the DSG, maybe highly reliable is a big strong, certainly we have no idea how the A250 dual clutch will hold up.

V40 is definitely sporting a 2.0 engine; I have chatted with Polestar who have no plan or immediate mods available for this version (only the T5 which is a 2.5). Also the slush box is a true slush box, not a dual clutch at the moment. Bit of a shame, as at 1.8m that's a nice price for a pretty decent car; as others say though, the depreciation vs. an A250 would be brutal.

Regarding the BMW Mini being a BMW, really the current generation have not much in common; the next generation 1 series and Mini will be a whole lot more similar (think Audi A3/Golf or A1/Skoda/Polo) from what I understand; the hatch may still be on it's own but the countryman/Paceman/5 door "mini" (I think all of these are bound to be ugly disgusting cars like the Paceman and Countryman are) will be built on a shared platform with the 1 series FWDs.

And yeah, the Subaru impreza should definitely be on there, apparently heading for a replacement quite soon. If the real thing looks anything like this,in the words of When Harry Met Sally "I'll have what she's having"

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/03/subaru-wrx-concept-a-new-york-show-stopper.html

[WarpSpeed]

Regarding the BMW Mini being a BMW, really the current generation have not much in common; the next generation 1 series and Mini will be a whole lot more similar (think Audi A3/Golf or A1/Skoda/Polo) from what I understand; the hatch may still be on it's own but the countryman/Paceman/5 door "mini" (I think all of these are bound to be ugly disgusting cars like the Paceman and Countryman are) will be built on a shared platform with the 1 series FWDs.

I've no idea what that means? Anyone care to translate for me? More simply put, a Mini IS BMW...

Edited April 13, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[VocalNeal]

Well i suppose BMW owns the marque but the engine is PSA Peugoet Citroen. Peugoet 207, 308 , Citroen C4, DS3 etc. use the same engine. We all know how manufacturers share components but Mini is not a "true" BMW. It is a "Mini"

[WarpSpeed]

Well i suppose BMW owns the marque but the engine is PSA Peugoet Citroen. Peugoet 207, 308 , Citroen C4, DS3 etc. use the same engine. We all know how manufacturers share components but Mini is not a "true" BMW. It is a "Mini"

Really? I always thought a "real Mini" was British Motor corporation? Had no idea that company still existed?? Gawd you Brits have a problem with conceding a point even if it makes you look silly to the core. That has F'all to do with it and as is per usual splitting hairs, a "real" mini hasn't existed for decades, Subaru builds the engines for Toyota's Gt86 and it's still a Toyota and how many other examples like that can be listed? ..

You know? I have a famous last name and historical tie to it that dates back to the previous capital of England and has a massive history here in the states. The licensing of that name & the products manufactured under it and it's rich history was bought by another big corporation some decades ago and then again in the past decade or so sold to another one and I've not seen a single dime from that use of our marque name, Why? Because the licensing for it was bought and sold in spite of it being OUR name sake for centuries and the products manufactured under it are no longer original either but that matters not, it is what it is, history changes everything else is just splitting hairs.

[Ace of Pop]

The Previous Capital City of England.?. What was that called. Kingston or Bombay.

[steveromagnino]

Regarding the BMW Mini being a BMW, really the current generation have not much in common; the next generation 1 series and Mini will be a whole lot more similar (think Audi A3/Golf or A1/Skoda/Polo) from what I understand; the hatch may still be on it's own but the countryman/Paceman/5 door "mini" (I think all of these are bound to be ugly disgusting cars like the Paceman and Countryman are) will be built on a shared platform with the 1 series FWDs.

I've no idea what that means? Anyone care to translate for me? More simply put, a Mini IS BMW...

I realise the Mini is owned by BMW, same as VW owns Skoda, Audi, VW, Porsche, Seat etc. But what I meant is that in Thailand, the excellent hot hatch 135i BMW (BMW branded BMW hot hatch) is simply not available.

Interestingly the 116i is available, and will likely be made here within the next 18 months as BMW pushes into hatch territory to take on the the Benz A class....however they don't plan to do a hot hatch variant AFAIK.

Regarding parts sharing, the Minis of the R56 shape (current) are built in the Midlands with a French sourced 1.6 engine (not a BMW engine) and share relatively few parts with their sister brand, compared to say a VW Golf and Audi A3 (similar relationship). However, that will change with the next generation when BMW plan to bring out their own FWD 1 series and there will start to be manufacturing of some MINI brand models outside the midlands (I would guess Countryman/PACEman and the 5 door hatch will be made elsewhere, the hatch probably will stay made in UK).

Just as I would not call a Porsche a VW, a Maserati a Fiat, or a Volvo a Ford Focus (some do for all of these) I don't really describe a MINI as a BMW even though I am fully aware as an owner it's made by a subsidiary of BMW. It drives nothing like a 1 or 3 series at the moment and shares little of the technology. Has some of the same idiotic problems though (terrible roof liner glue, bad electrical wiring, etc) and that is how I know it is a BMW at heart :_)

[Happy Go Lucky]

BMW ///M 135i is available in the grey market now if you are interested.

[WarpSpeed]

Regarding the BMW Mini being a BMW, really the current generation have not much in common; the next generation 1 series and Mini will be a whole lot more similar (think Audi A3/Golf or A1/Skoda/Polo) from what I understand; the hatch may still be on it's own but the countryman/Paceman/5 door "mini" (I think all of these are bound to be ugly disgusting cars like the Paceman and Countryman are) will be built on a shared platform with the 1 series FWDs.

I've no idea what that means? Anyone care to translate for me? More simply put, a Mini IS BMW...

I realise the Mini is owned by BMW, same as VW owns Skoda, Audi, VW, Porsche, Seat etc. But what I meant is that in Thailand, the excellent hot hatch 135i BMW (BMW branded BMW hot hatch) is simply not available.

Interestingly the 116i is available, and will likely be made here within the next 18 months as BMW pushes into hatch territory to take on the the Benz A class....however they don't plan to do a hot hatch variant AFAIK.

Regarding parts sharing, the Minis of the R56 shape (current) are built in the Midlands with a French sourced 1.6 engine (not a BMW engine) and share relatively few parts with their sister brand, compared to say a VW Golf and Audi A3 (similar relationship). However, that will change with the next generation when BMW plan to bring out their own FWD 1 series and there will start to be manufacturing of some MINI brand models outside the midlands (I would guess Countryman/PACEman and the 5 door hatch will be made elsewhere, the hatch probably will stay made in UK).

Just as I would not call a Porsche a VW, a Maserati a Fiat, or a Volvo a Ford Focus (some do for all of these) I don't really describe a MINI as a BMW even though I am fully aware as an owner it's made by a subsidiary of BMW. It drives nothing like a 1 or 3 series at the moment and shares little of the technology. Has some of the same idiotic problems though (terrible roof liner glue, bad electrical wiring, etc) and that is how I know it is a BMW at heart :_)

THAT, I understand... However is Volvo still Ford? Pretty sure Ford sold out of it several years ago just prior to the industry crash, that decision, which I saw coming along way off was actually one primary reason Ford was profitable while it's competition was claiming bankruptcy.

Edited April 15, 2013 by WarpSpeed

[steveromagnino]

THAT, I understand... However is Volvo still Ford? Pretty sure Ford sold out of it several years ago just prior to the industry crash, that decision, which I saw coming along way off was actually one primary reason Ford was profitable while it's competition was claiming bankruptcy.

Volvo is now Geely I think (Chinese) but the platform of the V40 is shared between mazda, ford, Volvo so some cynics call the V40 (and the C30) a ford focus. Not the worst insult in the world, and not really so true either.

Interesting to see 2 1 series Beemers available grey, will check out the price, but doubt I would buy such a car grey, the weak dealer networks grey is almost ok; the strong dealer networks reselling a grey car could prove difficult if Beemer start heavily marketing the 1 series.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes Chinese now that was what I had recalled, and definitely not the worst insult to be based on the Focus platform these days as you stated, I'd even say far from being even close to an insult..