Older Dog Kidney Faillure What To Expect

[robblok]

Many years ago, my ageing dog had kidney failure. I wasn't there at the time but my mum told me how painful it was. If, for some strange reason your vet won't put the dog out of its misery then do everything you can to find one and now. I doubt that the condition will get any better and may deteriorate quickly. You don't want a screaming dog in the middle of the night and not being able to do anything about it.

I just read more about it and if you read what Sherill posted the resident nurse its not a painful way to go she will slip into a coma. Anyway there are no signs of pain or stress at all.

[MILT]

I am going through this at the moment with my 15 year female old Rot.

3 weeks ago I woke up to find my dog experiencing total Renal failure.

Defecating blood and well it wasn't pretty. I rushed her to the Chiangmai University Vet hospital at 12:30 in the AM.

They gave my dog a week to live but first wanted to see if she would respond to the treatment.

She could barely get up on all fours as it is but with this is was impossible for her to walk.

I have her on a special Kidney diet (which is expensive) and am cooking rice and boiled chicken

to off set the expensive dog food. She gets 250ML Acetate Ringer just under the skin (which I do at home) twice a day.

Kidney and blood supplements and has just finished her course of antibiotics.

Now she is walking and and is able to urinate and defecate on a regular basis. I force her to take a walk twice a day

(which like your dogs just wants to lay around and sleep). She will always be on supplements and Acetate Ringer for the rest of her life

but she is back to her old self. My advice based on personal experience is that if after 3 to 4 weeks she has not made any progress

in her health and (by the way it is painful for them because there are intestinal gases accumulating even with her special diet.) that causes cramps. How is her breathing? If she is suffering in anyway and not responding to her treatment it maybe time. I highly recommend the Chiangmai University vet hospital before you make a final choice. They are not expensive, and all the vets speak good to great english.

They saved my best friends life!

Good Luck! I feel for you!

[robblok]

Hi,

She still walks and defactes, the moment i open the door she goes out with me. She pees and she does eat a bit she shows no signs of being in pain. When people come she just comes to greet them. But when there is nothing special she just lies down.

I am giving her the Acetae Ringer under the skin once a day 500ml (i read twice a lil bit is better but vet did not mention it). She is really showing no signs of discomfort and pain. Just a lack of energy and lack of appetite.

The kidney diet food.. i tried it and she just does not want it. Now she gets live and boiled chicken its the only thing she eats. I also give her some fish oil in her mouth and that is it.

[Sheryl]

Sounds like you are doing a great job with her, Robblok.

The main thing is to be attentive to her cues, and you are.

If she does not seem to you to be suffering then she most likely isn't. You'll know if that changes. In the meantime enjoy the time remaining with her.

[robblok]

She actually seems to improve and is more active.. drinks more eats a bit more. I wont hold my breathe or get my hopes up but she is feeling better. Tomorrow is an other day will see how that goes.

[NowImEasy]

It's one week now since my 16 year old mutt died. I know now that I waited too long before I put her to sleep. I didn't want to be without my best, most loyal friend. I knew it was time when she stopped eating. But I waited a couple days until my ex wife and daughter could make the trip to my house to say goodbye. After they left, I wanted to spend the whole last night holding her and talking to her. It went fine until 3:30 AM when she started convulsing. She had 5 convulsions before we got to the Vet.

So after one week, my heart is healing and I know my sadness will go away. But I know that I let her stay too long. I was selfish.

[LeCharivari]

I don't think you can do anything more for her than you would for a similarly close human companion.

First, get a well informed diagnosis from the vet, as you would a doctor. IF its renal failure, check how advanced it is - from everything I have been told animals (including people) can't make a full recovery; the best you can do even with medication and diet is prevent any continued degeneration. Checking the root of the tongue will give you a pretty good indication of how advanced renal failure is (brown colour, and texture).

If its terminal, then do what you would for a human friend in the same condition - and that's a very personal decision and probably an even more difficult one to make as they can't tell you what they want, how much pain they are in and what sort of quality of life they have, which a human can. Putting a loved one "to sleep" may be the "kindest" thing to do, but whose suffering are you stopping - yours or theirs?

On a more personal diet note, having been through this, my dogs with the same problem wouldn't touch Prescription Diet k/d either (which I presume is what you have tried) but they loved the cheapest (22 baht a can) dog food from Big C - lots of cheap, easy to digest jelly! Goat's milk (available from Foodland, if there's one near you) is also ideal either if she'll lap it up herself or possibly later if you have to give it to her yourself to keep her mouth moist.

[Sheryl]

I don't think you can do anything more for her than you would for a similarly close human companion.

First, get a well informed diagnosis from the vet, as you would a doctor. IF its renal failure, check how advanced it is - from everything I have been told animals (including people) can't make a full recovery; the best you can do even with medication and diet is prevent any continued degeneration. Checking the root of the tongue will give you a pretty good indication of how advanced renal failure is (brown colour, and texture).

If its terminal, then do what you would for a human friend in the same condition - and that's a very personal decision and probably an even more difficult one to make as they can't tell you what they want, how much pain they are in and what sort of quality of life they have, which a human can. Putting a loved one "to sleep" may be the "kindest" thing to do, but whose suffering are you stopping - yours or theirs?

On a more personal diet note, having been through this, my dogs with the same problem wouldn't touch Prescription Diet k/d either (which I presume is what you have tried) but they loved the cheapest (22 baht a can) dog food from Big C - lots of cheap, easy to digest jelly! Goat's milk (available from Foodland, if there's one near you) is also ideal either if she'll lap it up herself or possibly later if you have to give it to her yourself to keep her mouth moist.

An excellent point. The urge to euthanize often stems for our discomfort at seeing the disease and aging process. Not saying this is always the case, and no doubt there are cases where the animal's suffering cannot otherwise be relieved, but in many instances it is like this and it can be hard for owners to differentiate their feelings from the pet's.

NowImEasy - if it's any comfort, convulsions look horrible but people and animals are not conscious during them and thus do not suffer...ask anyone with a seizure disorder. So you may not have handled things as badly as you think.

[lemoncake]

She is in pain and sadly will not be getting better, HOWEVER personally i do not believe in putting animal down.

If you have the means, keep on going with what you have been doing, when she is ready to go, she will either go or show you a clear sign she wants to go.

Sorry to hear about this, i know its very hard to watch them suffer and even more so, just to think of them being gone

[robblok]

She is in pain and sadly will not be getting better, HOWEVER personally i do not believe in putting animal down.

If you have the means, keep on going with what you have been doing, when she is ready to go, she will either go or show you a clear sign she wants to go.

Sorry to hear about this, i know its very hard to watch them suffer and even more so, just to think of them being gone

My means are not a problem though i might look for cheaper (the same stuff but cheaper) IV fluid because at 500bt a bottle i think the vet is making a nice bit of money.

I use 1/2 bottle a day so its not much of a problem money wise but i don't think its the normal sale price. I wonder if the drip is the same for humans and dogs. Anyway will have the gf call the Thai company that makes it and see what that gets us.

Its not much of a problem but if this goes on for a long time i rather save myself the money.

An other blood test for her the 16th to see what is going on.

Only good news is and its probably temporary is that she is walking more drinking more and eating more. Every day for the last few days there has been improvement. Too bad that i know its just a temporary thing.

[NowImEasy]

She is in pain and sadly will not be getting better, HOWEVER personally i do not believe in putting animal down.

If you have the means, keep on going with what you have been doing, when she is ready to go, she will either go or show you a clear sign she wants to go.

Sorry to hear about this, i know its very hard to watch them suffer and even more so, just to think of them being gone

My means are not a problem though i might look for cheaper (the same stuff but cheaper) IV fluid because at 500bt a bottle i think the vet is making a nice bit of money.

I use 1/2 bottle a day so its not much of a problem money wise but i don't think its the normal sale price. I wonder if the drip is the same for humans and dogs. Anyway will have the gf call the Thai company that makes it and see what that gets us.

Its not much of a problem but if this goes on for a long time i rather save myself the money.

An other blood test for her the 16th to see what is going on.

Only good news is and its probably temporary is that she is walking more drinking more and eating more. Every day for the last few days there has been improvement. Too bad that i know its just a temporary thing.

Rob.. Yeah, what you are doing is temporary. Maybe you are interfering with nature's way. But don't stop what you're doing. And enjoy every minute with your doggie. I would give anything now to have one more walk in the woods with my old girl.

[wayned]

She is in pain and sadly will not be getting better, HOWEVER personally i do not believe in putting animal down.

If you have the means, keep on going with what you have been doing, when she is ready to go, she will either go or show you a clear sign she wants to go.

Sorry to hear about this, i know its very hard to watch them suffer and even more so, just to think of them being gone

My means are not a problem though i might look for cheaper (the same stuff but cheaper) IV fluid because at 500bt a bottle i think the vet is making a nice bit of money.

I use 1/2 bottle a day so its not much of a problem money wise but i don't think its the normal sale price. I wonder if the drip is the same for humans and dogs. Anyway will have the gf call the Thai company that makes it and see what that gets us.

Its not much of a problem but if this goes on for a long time i rather save myself the money.

An other blood test for her the 16th to see what is going on.

Only good news is and its probably temporary is that she is walking more drinking more and eating more. Every day for the last few days there has been improvement. Too bad that i know its just a temporary thing.

The IV Fluid is available at the pharmacy and is not 500 baht/bottle. I don't remember what it cost but have bought it numerous times. Take an empty bottle to the pharmacy and show them. I live near a small town and the "only" pharmacy has it and the IV kits also.

[Sheryl]

She is in pain and sadly will not be getting better, HOWEVER personally i do not believe in putting animal down.

If you have the means, keep on going with what you have been doing, when she is ready to go, she will either go or show you a clear sign she wants to go.

Sorry to hear about this, i know its very hard to watch them suffer and even more so, just to think of them being gone

On what basis do you say this?

The dog's owner. who knows her and is with her, reports no sign of pain.

The condition she suffers from does not usually cause pain. In its late stages it can cause mental confusion leading to agitation, sometimes also itching, but not pain as such.

Owners who love their pets are very attuned to their feelings are be the best ones to gauge if the animal is suffering or not.

[lemoncake]

She is in pain and sadly will not be getting better, HOWEVER personally i do not believe in putting animal down.

If you have the means, keep on going with what you have been doing, when she is ready to go, she will either go or show you a clear sign she wants to go.

Sorry to hear about this, i know its very hard to watch them suffer and even more so, just to think of them being gone

On what basis do you say this?

The dog's owner. who knows her and is with her, reports no sign of pain.

The condition she suffers from does not usually cause pain. In its late stages it can cause mental confusion leading to agitation, sometimes also itching, but not pain as such.

Owners who love their pets are very attuned to their feelings are be the best ones to gauge if the animal is suffering or not.

KIdney failure is always painful, because she can not pass fluids and can not eat. I doubt its any more pleasant experience in a dog than a human.

Only dogs can not speak "pain"

My old girl just been diagnosed with urinary tract infection, and while she did not 'say" she was in pain, Vet gave her pain killers and can see the change in eyes and behavior

[Sheryl]

Kidney disease is not always painful. In fact not usually. The main discomfort experienced by people -- who can express themselves -- is itching and general confusion/ agitation as toxins accumulate affecting the mind.

Urinary tract infections, on the other hand, do cause pain during urination. totally different conditions.

I think owners who love their pets are well attuned to their expressions. Certainly an owner with their pet is in a better position to gauge likely suffering than someone at the end of a computer who has never even seen the animal.

[lemoncake]

Kidney disease is not always painful. In fact not usually. The main discomfort experienced by people -- who can express themselves -- is itching and general confusion/ agitation as toxins accumulate affecting the mind.

Urinary tract infections, on the other hand, do cause pain during urination. totally different conditions.

I think owners who love their pets are well attuned to their expressions. Certainly an owner with their pet is in a better position to gauge likely suffering than someone at the end of a computer who has never even seen the animal.

You are correct if it was kidney disease and not kidney failure, and if i am not mistaken in OP case it is kidney failure not kidney disease

http://www.ehow.com/about_5335925_faq-dogs-kidney-failure.html

[Patsycat]

It's good that she is feeling a bit better.

I think that my cat died of kidney failure a few years ago. She was fine one day, a bit odd the next day. At 4 am there was a sudden scream and she just slumped. I guess she was in a coma, she purred and purred and I spoke to her for hours. Then just a little last breath.

She was 17. I wrote a thread on here about her - Saturna.

Good luck. It is a sad thing to go through.

[robblok]

Yes it is.. the dog is feeling better the the blood value's are getting worse. I had hoped against better knowing that it would be better as the dog was improving. Eating more more active and such. But it is not, the vet gives her about a month. The gf is going to ask around for a vet who could put her down if things get real bad for her.

On an other note the IV fluid was available at victory monument in a pharmacy for around 50bt the bottle instead of the 500bt the vet charged. So we got a supply of those. Hope this helps for someone.

[lemoncake]

Yes it is.. the dog is feeling better the the blood value's are getting worse. I had hoped against better knowing that it would be better as the dog was improving. Eating more more active and such. But it is not, the vet gives her about a month. The gf is going to ask around for a vet who could put her down if things get real bad for her.

On an other note the IV fluid was available at victory monument in a pharmacy for around 50bt the bottle instead of the 500bt the vet charged. So we got a supply of those. Hope this helps for someone.

Great news, she is better. I think her being more active and eating more is a better indicator of how she is feeling.

Lets stay positive and hope she will maintain and get better

[Sheryl]

Kidney disease is not always painful. In fact not usually. The main discomfort experienced by people -- who can express themselves -- is itching and general confusion/ agitation as toxins accumulate affecting the mind.

Urinary tract infections, on the other hand, do cause pain during urination. totally different conditions.

I think owners who love their pets are well attuned to their expressions. Certainly an owner with their pet is in a better position to gauge likely suffering than someone at the end of a computer who has never even seen the animal.

You are correct if it was kidney disease and not kidney failure, and if i am not mistaken in OP case it is kidney failure not kidney disease

http://www.ehow.com/about_5335925_faq-dogs-kidney-failure.html

Kidney failure results from kidney disease. And "ehow" is not a reliable medical reference.

[Sheryl]

Yes it is.. the dog is feeling better the the blood value's are getting worse. I had hoped against better knowing that it would be better as the dog was improving. Eating more more active and such. But it is not, the vet gives her about a month. The gf is going to ask around for a vet who could put her down if things get real bad for her.

On an other note the IV fluid was available at victory monument in a pharmacy for around 50bt the bottle instead of the 500bt the vet charged. So we got a supply of those. Hope this helps for someone.

Next time you see your vet, see if you can get him or her to prescribe a sedative or pain killer that you can give if and when needed. It is nit likely to be until close to the end but then it can be be very sudden and it is good to have something on hand. She will be quite confused soon as the toxin levels increase and many (tho not necessarily all) animals respond to that with agitation and fear. It is not physical pain actually, but confusion and fear so a sedative will work as well as a pain killer. Once she slips into a coma no more problem and quite likely that it would need only 1 or 2 doses before that would occur.

Possible she'll never need it but best to have on hand if she does.

[Sheryl]

Any update on how the dog is doing Robblok?

[robblok]

Unfortunately i have an update,

I have been to 5 vets even the famed kaserad hospital, none will put her down. Now i got a dog crying from pain. We inject tramadol but it does not seem to help much maybe because it mixes with the saline that is already there (both are put under the skin). I have bought tablets of tramadol and hopefully that works but i doubt it as we just given her.

She is crying .. its breaking my heart and im cursing the religion here. I am considering stopping the saline and hoping she will die faster. I hate this.. i really hate it im angry and im powerless.

She is lying behing me crying.. holding her.. nothing helps.. it was ok that she peed all over the place and could not get up.. its just water she was a good dog.. keeping us up is not a problem... but the pain in the poor dog is breaking my heart.. My gf is crying all the time too.. me i cant cry anymore im just angry.

The vet asked my gf if she was a buddist because she wanted to put the dog down.. don't these people see the pain a dog is in. its inhumane.

[Sheryl]

From what you describe now, I would stop the saline as it will only prolong matters.

Sent you a PM as well.

[robblok]

Yes, i have came to the point to.. no more saline.. it only prolongs matters and i really hope to find a vet to do it. We really searched around here.

[robblok]

For now she is just sleeping.. thank god its nerve wrecking for us.. can only imagine how it is for her.

[wayned]

If you have stopped the saline, it might help if you give the tramadol injections directly into the muscle not just under the skin, it will be absorbed faster. The easiest place is on the inside of the rear upper leg. If you could give it intravenously it would even be better but the veins are hard to find. If you do do it intravenously only use 2mg/kilogram of body weight. Sorry to hear she is in so much pain, I lost 2 to kidney failure in the last 3 year but they did not suffer with a lot of pain.

[lemoncake]

For now she is just sleeping.. thank god its nerve wrecking for us.. can only imagine how it is for her.

If you can take a drive down to Pattaya, i can suggest a Vet who would put her down, sorry to hear about her taking turn for the worse

[robblok]

I have given her xanax now and she sleeps peacefully, seems it was not pain but confusion. Also she is not crying anymore when awake.. it is an improvement. Of course its no solution that is for sure but its better then a crying dog.

[robblok]

She is now in the last phase.. no need for xanax anymore. She is unresponsive.. only has a muscle spasm in her leg. Using a syringe to put water in her mouth does nor result in her lapping it up. She only has a muscle spasm in her leg it keeps twitching. Her eyes are still open though.. staring into nothingness.

It hurts us but its better this way, i hope i never have to loose a pet this way. My first pet.. my first pain.