Enforcement Of Thai Debts On My Way Out?

[Sibbo]

Are there actually any REAL people who ACTUALLY live in Thailand posting to this forum anymore.

A few months back the OP was ripping into me with his financial advice and tips for living here.

What a crock...snoozer can't even pay his rent.

And PLEASE TELL ME if you were behind in your rent...why weren't you working...or seeking work...rather than wasting your time flaming me on this forum?

Just another particle of the farang detritus layer removed from Thailand...good bye...

thats what i am thinking,here he is on his arse no money yet he says he is taking his wf.and kids with him,he also states he has a grown up family from 40yrs ago,how old his he to go back to work,and it dont end there his ex and kids are following as not to break up the family,what will they live on FRESH AIR.

That was my thought exactly. He is obviously an educated man which should enable him to obtain employment as a teacher. Even Government schools will pay a minimum of 30k a month. But, in all of the posts he does not say how old his children are or indeed how old his ex wife is. If he is indeed well over the 60yr bracket he will only have government handouts to live on and if he is not married the USA or UK or Austraila will not allow his wife to live there. My personal thoughts are he is hoping that some kind hearted expat will throw a few thousand baht at him for the sob story.

[FunFon]

OK, working my way backwards.

First of all, for everyone who seems to think I'm talking about skipping out on the debt, that isn't the case at all, for the past eight months I've been paying 130% which is the arrangement agreed with the landlord, on the due date on the dot, slowly working my toward getting the backlog paid off.

There is no question the debt will get paid, and if I'm working back home it will get paid much faster than if I remain. For those (apparently many) of you that are so cynical that this is hard for you to believe, I'll just have to leave you to your own paradigm, not much I can do about that.

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Is the land lady single? maybe she has a crush on you and is why she lets you stay.

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She is, and not unattractive, but she's well aware that she's at least fifteen years older than my target profile for playmates, and I really doubt her mum who's a total dragon lady - Thai Chinese of course - would allow her to have anything to do with such a farang kee nok.

I honestly believe she was just negligent about checking the account into which I deposit, and once she realised how far behind it got, combined with her kindness and consideration for my kids as well as our relationship being strong enough that she knows she can trust my word, all these combined to create her unusual generosity and patience, of which I fully admit I've taken unfair advantage.

Perhaps once the backlog is clear I'll also kick her some interest, but she's never raised the issue.

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hey man, i think it is commendable that you are sitting here answering all the questions

i just don't understand why you would have remained in Thailand for so long knowing you could have went home and improved your financial conditions

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I've never been willing to leave the kids to be raised by grandma in the dirt shack ricefields, and could not imagine how I could manage as a single parent back in farangland.

The fact that I've finally gotten a critical mass of support from my family and friends to help me raise the airfare, clear utilities and other lesser debts etc.

Combined with the fact that their mother is now a lot calmer and more mature, allows me to imagine being able to deal with living together again (I hope) and that she's willing to come along to act as caregiver allowing me to seek full-time work right off the back rather than relying on subsidies for day-to-day expenses - and in fact at some point better qualifications and full-on career work if I can swing it once things have stabilised.

And to be honest my original reason for staying here - addiction to sex with beautiful athletic enthusiastic young TGs - has become decreasingly compelling compared to my concern for the kids' education as they've gotten older and I've started to learn first-hand by working at supposedly excellent Thai-run schools (which obviously is all I could ever afford staying here), just how awful the standards here are compared to even the worst government schools back home.

Long answer to a simple question. . .

[FunFon]

This guy is either a wind up merchant or just a 'merchant' as they say down east London way.

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No idea what the latter means, would appreciate clarification.

I believe the former means spinning a story, rest assured it's all 100% as is all I've ever posted, I can't imagine people getting entertainment trolling, just as I get no satisfaction from go-go bars or porn as others do.

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Are FF and WW the same person in different avataars??

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I've never used two IDs concurrently here - IOW since starting this account no other current account is me.

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Those in-inlaws whom you have put down in several posts for living in a shack in some rice fields, dont you think they are leading a much more honourable life than you? Why berate hardworking poor folks?

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I've never put them down, in fact have extolled their virtues and expressed my deep gratitude to them for their many and great acts of kindness and gratitude over the years, and fully intend to buy Yai a few baht of gold when I can afford it.

Mentioning the fact that they live in a tin-roofed dirt-floor shack out in the middle of the rice fields of Isaan is in no way meant to be disparaging - I would look at your own point of view for why you took it that way.

If I were in such a bad position that I felt it were in the interest of the kids' welfare to have them raised for a time by these wonderful people, I have no doubt they would receive lots of love and only a bit poorer nutrition than what I've been providing.

However the educational and medical facilities out there are truly of a third-world standard IMO (as is true of some areas back home BTW), and there are also real safety issues, riding around on scooters and in the open back of trucks, dangerous garbage and parasites in the ground, rape and incest by family/friends/neighbors very common and lately kids have been getting randomly snatched off the side of the road, apparently by guys riding around in modern black vans, no one knows what's happening to the kids disappearing.

Plus their increasing mastery of Khmer and Laos languages would be at the expense of their English.

I'd have to be a lot worse off than I am now to take that route, but none of the above is meant to disparage anyone nor the region, just what I consider the reality of the situation out there.

[JLCrab]

If you pay 'em enough, they can fake enthusiasm as well.

[FunFon]

He is obviously an educated man which should enable him to obtain employment as a teacher. Even Government schools will pay a minimum of 30k a month. But, in all of the posts he does not say how old his children are or indeed how old his ex wife is. If he is indeed well over the 60yr bracket he will only have government handouts to live on and if he is not married the USA or UK or Austraila will not allow his wife to live there. My personal thoughts are he is hoping that some kind hearted expat will throw a few thousand baht at him for the sob story.

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It's true that I was educated at the best possible schools and universities at great expense to my parents for which I remain very grateful.

However I dropped out without getting a degree. When I came here 14 years ago it was much easier to get teaching work without the degree, and in fact I was employed for six years officially as a consultant at one of the top international schools here for well over B100K per month.

For the past few years it's been very difficult to get reasonable work, and my private tutoring work has always paid better at least as well as the low-end full-time jobs.

I never have nor do intend to take any government handouts unless it becomes really necessary, temporary emergency etc, hard to imagine keeping self-respect in that situation but for the sake of the kids no one knows the future eh.

And I'm not asking for help from anyone here, don't worry never imagined that, just looking for accurate information and in fact I find bouncing ideas off other people to be helpful for my own thought processes, get a bit more perspective.

[weegee]

Well johnnie off you go....or will you be back with a different avatar next week......and a different story

[Sayonarax]

Considering all she needs to do is notify the BiB that you are a slacker and may try to leave the country, they only need to put a passport hold on you and you are off to jail when you try to leave. Depends completely on how fast they can notify Immigration. You signed a lease and she has all the information she needs. Ask the question. "do you want to visit a Thai Jail as a permanent resident?" You are taking advantage of a very trusting Lady. I would have kicked you out by now.

I'd suggest you find a way to get the money and pay her off before you leave. Be it credit card or friends and family.

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Thanks for the constructive advice.

Believe me I've done all the mass-market campaigning among family and friends they can stand, and the pledges I've received so far are enough for the airfares, paying off utilities, passport and visa fees and bare-bone living expenses while waiting for those to come through, probably six to eight weeks. Trying to exit before then isn't an option.

I can probably give her another 2-3 months out of the 14, obviously would be better if I didn't incur further rent there, am trying to get out by the end of this lease-month. If I'm blocked from leaving the country will probably have to send the kids to the ex-in-laws dirt shack in the rice fields as opposed to getting them into a good government school back in farangland.

Haven't had a credit card for 15 years now. . .

I don't think im gonna bother reading all your posts. Once i read your happy for your kids to sit in some dirt shack thats where its either a choice.. your valves or your kids well being. You dug the hole now find a way out without dragging your children down with you.

I don't think you;ve had common sense for 15years.. but oh well good luck!

[krisb]

I can't believe mods let this run so long. It's actually making me shake my head.

Funfon, good luck for your kids sake. I don't know what to believe anymore.

[473geo]

Interesting responses this thread has thrown up.......1) If you carry a temporary cash flow problem your previous opinions and experience on Thailand topics are now null and void 2) If you carry a genuine anticipation to repay a debt, it is according to some members not a good idea to take a suitable path to achieve this goal. 3) If you piss off a few other members off by correcting their ill thought out posts, you must be a troll and have returned from a ban using a different user name 4) People who change their user name are not to be trusted 5) compassion from many Tvisa posters is not afforded to those that have an intend to recover a situation 6) There are no compassionate Thai people, the Op is fanticising about the support received for him and his family from the landlady/Grandparents All business is profit, no need to factor in bad debt ..........what a misguided bunch you guys are.......Op, you will turn the corner and I hope in a few months time you return and post the debt is cleared, but more importantly your children are settled.....of course your post may well be dissed by the affluent Tvisa posters as a troll post but it would be good to see it anyway

[FunFon]

planning to have his wife mortgage her inherited land

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Ex-wife please, not inherited land but as I said investment from money she's made since leaving me

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rather than leave his kids here for a few months with the in-laws and use the air-ticket money to square up with his landlady

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Can't see how it would be for a few months, I'll most likely be stacking shelves in a supermarket, chopping wood, mowing lawns, cleaning houses or whatever to start with. Rebuilding a decent income stream will take at least a year given the current economy, and will most likely need to save up a lot first to move away from mums be self-sufficient, not those kinds of opportunities out where she lives.

And no way would my ex front the money for my debt like that, quite rightly, so nothing of what you describe is even close to being an option for me.

But thanks for your concern.

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The suggestion "just to disappear" is laughable. For that is not possible. All teh landlord has to do is report the matter to the Police, who will report itto the Immagration autorities and actions will be taken at the borders. Records will be flagged and an arrest will be made (unless they cross a land border at night... then bing in another country without papers). It is an irresponsible suggestion all around.

This is a real problem. Putting his children in this mess is shameful. Posting things back as he says he will do is shameful. Itis time to face the music and fix things.

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I am indeed ashamed, and believe I am "facing the music and fixing things" - more constructive suggestions welcome.

You've raise a key issue here - others have recently posted that the landlord does in fact not have the ability to block my leaving the country. Obviously that is at the heart of my OP, exactly the kind of issue I need to nail down in planning my next moves, so clarity on this from those who actually have hard knowledge of this would be most appreciated.

All the rest is pretty extraneous waffling isn't it. . .

Edited April 13, 2013 by FunFon

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You've raise a key issue here - others have recently posted that the landlord does in fact not have the ability to block my leaving the country. Obviously that is at the heart of my OP, exactly the kind of issue I need to nail down in planning my next moves, so clarity on this from those who actually have hard knowledge of this would be most appreciated.

All the rest is pretty extraneous waffling isn't it. . .

I think you have to consider this.

If a landlord could block you leaving the country with a simple phone call, everyone with a grudge would be playing this card.

Dumped gfs, divorced wives, people you has a dispute with down the local bar. "Excuse me Mr. Thai police, I'm a landlord and this guy owes me money"

Blocking someone from leaving the country with a simple phone call or police report from any Thai just isn't a reasonable premise.

They can't do it, even if a legit claim, you would need a court order or warrant issued first.

Edited April 13, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[FunFon]

I just got done watching the MCOT TV news and, if this isn't an emergency travel situation which by FF's own accounts it isn't, he certainly picked about the worst day of the year to travel by train or any other means.

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Actually returned to Bangkok after bringing the kids up to stay at the ex-in-laws, and the train averaged maybe eight people per carriage. But thanks for your concern.

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I can't imagine why you would want to stay another minute in this country under your current circumstances. Pack your clothes and go.

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That's the plan, but waiting for the initial wire transfer to come through, getting my ex and my youngest their passport, getting the old visa switched from the ex's old one to the new one, even if completely straightforward will take at least another month.

[JLCrab]

Interesting responses this thread has thrown up.......

Are you suggesting that anyone who could write the following should be taken seriously:

Sorry don't understand the question?

Me-myself-I have had many lifetimes' worth of experience - my experiences, lifetimes as in measure of time - in that arena.

Does that help clarify?

Edited April 13, 2013 by JLCrab

[FunFon]

Okay,
so without the lecture on point to you and the fact that you should now
be looking at the inside of a jail cell... understand that:

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WOW what a lot of trouble you've gone to with your very detailed post, thanks I'm sure some of it may prove helpful.

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• The
  people that you owe money to can very easily report you to the police
  and have you taken away until you have paid your debts in full.
• The Immigration people can be notified and a BOLO ("Be on the lookout")
  will be issued. That would mean that at any check point you will be
  held, and/or at Passport Control at the airport you will be held.
• Your
  name will be checked against information gathered at the time you
  entered the country and that record will be flagged. There are digital
  records of all persons entering and leaving Thailand. It is a system,
  when it works (ask yourself this... why shouldn't it?), that is against
  you in this case.

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Others are saying this isn't the case?

I did originally assume so, but was still leaning toward being honest with her before leaving, but have since I think been converted to the
"get out of dodge" camp, as others have pointed out especially for the welfare of my kids.

There is no question I will pay off the debt in full, and much faster from my ability to earn more back home, so I personally feel relatively OK from a moral POV and am taking a practical approach to the farcical Thai legal system. Realising full well how dangerous it can be believe me.
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My
real suggestion is to pay up and get the lashing from your
parents/family. At least with them you are not going to have to spend
time in a Thai jail.

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As I've said, there is no way I can see to raise the money from my already-stretched support group of friends and family, best we can do there is kick in 2-3 months (depending how much my ex raises towards the tickets, how much the passports/visas cost etc. toward the backlog (and I'm sure expenses for re-painting, some cracked tiles in the bathroom etc.) I honestly can't see any way to pay it in full before I leave, unless I start taking advantage of the PM approaches offering help from here, which I'm sure are well-intentioned and certainly appreciated by me, but hard to
imagine taking that route.

Edited April 13, 2013 by FunFon

[473geo]

Interesting responses this thread has thrown up.......

Are you suggesting that anyone who could write the following should be taken seriously:

Sorry don't understand the question?

Me-myself-I have had many lifetimes' worth of experience - my experiences, lifetimes as in measure of time - in that arena.

Does that help clarify?

Personally I don't take anybody who comes across as pedantic, bitter and twisted, seriously...but being polite and not wishing to make the poster look small in the eyes of others I occasionally respond to their posts.....

[Sayonarax]

If I was in debt in a foreign country with laws that can have me locked up in bad prison conditions and I had no real means of paying off the debt, I would leave in the night. I'd take the bare minimum and be gone.

Why would anyone in their right mind hang around waiting to spend quality time in a sh*t hole of a jail knowing full well they could be there for years?

Obviously I'd like to think I had the sense not to get into such debt in the first place, but things do happen. Maybe circumstances beyond our control.

I really do have a problem believing someone can be allowed to get a whole year or more behind with their rent. I feel the landlord and the renter are both to blame if such a circumstance arises. That is why I have worded this reply in this way.

The guys more interested in posting on the forum and having morals than bailing with his kids. He thinks prison will be fun while his kids sit in a government care.

[JLCrab]

If he didn't want people to have him look small as you put it, he could just stop posting the minutiae of his personal problems as if there is something unique or engaging. He has a couple of kids in the equation -- however kids are strong and many times the children of parents who are totally screwed up come out incredibly well-adjusted.

[Sayonarax]

Think the big difference here is people who have owned businesses and people who never had that. Once you have had a business you know how frustrating and bad it is when people don't pay. You will start to treat other people worse because of the of a bad client.

I have had non paying clients its one of the worst things its not only about money its a breach of trust. That is why i side with the landlady she might not have let it get this far but she is the victim the guy promised he would pay. She just could not kick him out she was helping and this is how she is re-payed.

There are loads of bad people here walking away from debts hurting others by doing so. I really hope that debt catches up with you once. I think its just jealousy that someone has money and they don't and so they think they must have enough they don't need my money.

Most small business owners and other people renting out had to work hard to get where they are its a low blow to not pay them. People are responsible for their own actions.

A business owner like that might treat the next farang a lot less kind.

Very good example of what should happen. If your going to live up to your word, better to do that outside of jail. Because this is only go to lead down one path, him being jailed and his kids going else where.

He can still leave the country and honor his agreement.

Maybe hes been in Thailand so long he's worried he'll lose face..

[473geo]

If he didn't want people to have him look small as you put it, he could just stop posting the minutiae of his personal problems as if there is something unique or engaging. He has a couple of kids in the equation -- however kids are strong and many times the children of parents who are totally screwed up come out incredibly well-adjusted.

Oh right, so the indignant posters will not be evident if there are no posts to furnish their requirement to criticise......I'm pleased he posted, nothing like seeing where fellow posters true values lie.....as I say interesting and informative......my advice is really simple....following his investigation into the possibility of being detained.....he must do what he has to do to achieve his goal......which in case a few of you have forgotten is to get straight and pay the landlady. If that means a flit for now enables payment later...so be it.

[FunFon]

OK, I seem with this post to have covered all those I considered worth responding to, many people are misunderstanding things from not reading carefully, but that's to be expected no problem - if you have OP-relevant questions that you think I haven't covered please repost.

To all those sick to death of the thread, feel free to stop clicking on it, you're the only one causing your misery by continuing to follow it.
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he has kids from 40 years ago and now he is in his fifties ? does not add up

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The kids from my first family were actually stepchildren, raised them from age 2 to 19, I was nineteen to start with and their mother was 30.
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and your ex got a big loan (how she can pay that one off?) or why doesn't she sell some land

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She hasn't got it yet, so far best she's found is about 50% of the purchase price (six months ago) at 3%.

I agree, but I can't tell her to sell it can I? I think it's an investment with other family members and they all believe it'll go up a lot in the future, apparently a factory's going in this year nearby or something.
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BTW Gotta run? SRT trains in Thailand are never on time especially on beginning SongKran weekend.

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In fact it was on time, I missed it by quite a bit since there weren't any pedicabs running had to hoof it all the way to the train station, just barely made the next one, offered cash to the conductor after showing him my now-useless one and he waved my money aside with a smile, brought me up to the aircon section too, 73 baht for a seven hour trip in comfort God I'm going to miss this place.

[JLCrab]

.as I say interesting and informative..... You must have a low threshold.

But I do enjoy following it as it's a slow weekend and I already got doused on my motor bike. Besides, I'm still in my first lifetime and maybe I might still get some pointers from someone who has exceeded that.

Edited April 13, 2013 by JLCrab

[FunFon]

Interesting responses this thread has thrown up.......

Are you suggesting that anyone who could write the following should be taken seriously:

Sorry don't understand the question?

Me-myself-I have had many lifetimes' worth of experience - my experiences, lifetimes as in measure of time - in that arena.

Does that help clarify?

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Gee you sure do go to a lot of trouble, maybe we were lovers in a past life or something?

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I was respond to your expressing confusion at my meaning with this question, which I took to mean "whose lifetimes?" but maybe I was wrong, which is why I said I didn't really understand it, but did my best to answer.

After many lifetimes' worth of experience here ... Whose?

[JLCrab]

Not a lot of trouble. It's called Google.

[473geo]

.as I say interesting and informative..... You must have a low threshold.

But I do enjoy following it as it's a slow weekend and I already got doused on my motor bike. Besides, I'm still in my first lifetime and maybe I might still get some pointers from someone who has exceeded that.

Informative because knowing the type of person one deals with in any situation, be it a forum, or be it a landlady is likely to be beneficial........but don't dwell on it, wouldn't want to interupt your slow day... ...a regular occurence perhaps?

[MacChine]

Seems the OP is asking for advice, not judgements, and has children to worry about so the landlady naturally comes second.

Yes, she can have your exit stymied.

If you have two truck loads of stuff, surely something in there must be worth something?

In extreme desperation ? You could also go to a loan shark, if you are really leaving, then why not, they deserve a runner every now and then.

[kevvy]

can you believe this guy , he is posting (today) on how to be cost-effective on postage. well he should know as he is going to do a runner one a sweet lady .

[JLCrab]

..a regular occurrence perhaps? No. It's Songkran haven't you noticed?

[somchaismith]

How could debts be enforced if you were to swim across a narrow part of the Mekong, to Laos?

[473geo]

..a regular occurrence perhaps? No. It's Songkran haven't you noticed?

Songkran affects your speed of thought...

[473geo]

can you believe this guy , he is posting (today) on how to be cost-effective on postage. well he should know as he is going to do a runner one a sweet lady .

Dear oh dear, perhaps in his cash strapped environment he is the best person in Thailand to advise on cost effective postage!!......does songkran have the same affect on you as it does crabby?