Bullets Used In South Raid Match Weapon

[Lite Beer]

Bullets used in South raid match weapon
Narong Nuansakul
The Nation on Sunday

NARATHIWAT: -- Shells from M60 machine-gun rounds found outside a ranger outpost near the home of a leading Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) member in Narathiwat's Ra Ngae district were fired from a rifle stolen during a 2008 attack in Chanae district in which eight soldiers were killed, officials said.

Police and Army officials inspected the outpost at 8am yesterday. The facility, which was attacked at 7.55pm on Friday, is near the house of Hassan Toib, who was involved in peace talks with Thai officials in Kuala Lumpur last month.

A police investigation found that four or five assailants opened fire on the ranger outpost at Ban Ba Ngo Sato, after which both sides fired at each other for five minutes amid heavy rains, before the assailants retreated under cover of darkness after back-up rangers arrived. No casualties were reported among government forces.

Police also collected 92 shells of M-60 machine-gun rounds and 44 M-16 shells at the scene. They initially determined that the M60 casings were fired from a gun stolen from one of the victims of the January 15, 2008 attack.

Police are trying to determine which insurgent used this gun, police said, adding that they suspect the same weapon was used in another attack on a garment factory on January 6, 2012 that killed two Rusoh district defence volunteers and wounded three others.

In related news, village headman assistant Tolae Putan, 46, was fatally shot while driving his sedan home in Pattani's Ma-Yor district on Friday night.

He was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital. Police found at the scene eight shells from an AK assault rifle and five from M-16 rifles.

While the government has held peace talks with the BRN and other Muslim insurgent groups in an effort to restore peace in the deep South, the attacks on Thai officials and Army outposts in the region seem to have escalated in the past few months, reportedly carried out by militant factions that object to the dialogue.

-- The Nation 2013-04-14

[Locationthailand]

Successful peace talks? Why 'negotiate' with terrorists? They all deserve to meet their fate, and sooner the better.

[LuckyLew]

Keep up the great work Chalerm ... you are doing a bang up great job with the South

[NeverSure]

M60 Machine gun? That's a heck of a gun and in a whole different league than the 5.56 NATO M16.

I would think that the thieves would immediately have removed machining marks from the chamber and the barrel so that neither the bullets nor the casings could be ID'd as having come from that gun without also having the altered gun to compare.

I'm also surprised that no one was killed. They must not have had a real target. That's a belt fed machine gun, powerful and deadly. It's the same round as the 7.62 NATO M14, but the M14 is a rifle with a capacity of only 20 rounds in a magazine instead of an ammunition belt.

[Halion]

Typical inane garbage from this reporter. The devil is in the details. First of all a M60 is not a rifle. It is a general purpose machine gun (GPMG). Secondly what does the term "shells were found" denote ? were these live rounds or simply spent casings. If they were found in an engagement area they are most probably spent casings. There is no way you can match a live round to a specific weapon. You can obtain a high potential match from the ejector marks on a a spent shell casing, however, you need to have the weapon in your possesion in order to obtain verification.

The most conclusive match of a projectile to a specific weapon is by the examinination of the rifiling marks which are engraved on the projectile as it travels down the barrel, however, in order to do this you need to have a fired projectile which is in fairly good condition and again you need the specific weapon in order to make the ballistic assessment.

The M60 is a most formibable weapon. It is a high velocity weapon using 7.62 NATO rounds with a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute. The weapon is belt fed and air cooled and weighs around 10 Kg without the tripod mount which contributes another 6 Kg.

The only plausable thing in this whole report from a ballaisics point of view would be that spent casings from a 7.62 caliber round were found and had simelar ejector markings comparable with a M60 machine gun.

Once again , the devil is in the details.

[Phatcharanan]

Typical inane garbage from this reporter. The devil is in the details. First of all a M60 is not a rifle. It is a general purpose machine gun (GPMG). Secondly what does the term "shells were found" denote ? were these live rounds or simply spent casings. If they were found in an engagement area they are most probably spent casings. There is no way you can match a live round to a specific weapon. You can obtain a high potential match from the ejector marks on a a spent shell casing, however, you need to have the weapon in your possesion in order to obtain verification.

The most conclusive match of a projectile to a specific weapon is by the examinination of the rifiling marks which are engraved on the projectile as it travels down the barrel, however, in order to do this you need to have a fired projectile which is in fairly good condition and again you need the specific weapon in order to make the ballistic assessment.

The M60 is a most formibable weapon. It is a high velocity weapon using 7.62 NATO rounds with a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute. The weapon is belt fed and air cooled and weighs around 10 Kg without the tripod mount which contributes another 6 Kg.

The only plausable thing in this whole report from a ballaisics point of view would be that spent casings from a 7.62 caliber round were found and had simelar ejector markings comparable with a M60 machine gun.

Once again , the devil is in the details.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[hellodolly]

Typical inane garbage from this reporter. The devil is in the details. First of all a M60 is not a rifle. It is a general purpose machine gun (GPMG). Secondly what does the term "shells were found" denote ? were these live rounds or simply spent casings. If they were found in an engagement area they are most probably spent casings. There is no way you can match a live round to a specific weapon. You can obtain a high potential match from the ejector marks on a a spent shell casing, however, you need to have the weapon in your possesion in order to obtain verification.

The most conclusive match of a projectile to a specific weapon is by the examinination of the rifiling marks which are engraved on the projectile as it travels down the barrel, however, in order to do this you need to have a fired projectile which is in fairly good condition and again you need the specific weapon in order to make the ballistic assessment.

The M60 is a most formibable weapon. It is a high velocity weapon using 7.62 NATO rounds with a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute. The weapon is belt fed and air cooled and weighs around 10 Kg without the tripod mount which contributes another 6 Kg.

The only plausable thing in this whole report from a ballaisics point of view would be that spent casings from a 7.62 caliber round were found and had simelar ejector markings comparable with a M60 machine gun.

Once again , the devil is in the details.

Well you are right but you forget to mention that possibly they had all the details about the weapon used on file already.

[fasteddie]

Successful peace talks? Why 'negotiate' with terrorists? They all deserve to meet their fate, and sooner the better.

But their fate could be the creation of their own state as in Israeli "terrorists", or the assumption of power as in the ANC "terrorists", or even just acceptance into the democratic process as in the IRA "terrorists", one man's "terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter. Peace talks are the only way and must not be allowed to fail because that is what the majority of the indigenous people of the south want.

[hellodolly]

Successful peace talks? Why 'negotiate' with terrorists? They all deserve to meet their fate, and sooner the better.

But their fate could be the creation of their own state as in Israeli "terrorists", or the assumption of power as in the ANC "terrorists", or even just acceptance into the democratic process as in the IRA "terrorists", one man's "terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter. Peace talks are the only way and must not be allowed to fail because that is what the majority of the indigenous people of the south want.

I am confused are you saying the majority of the indigenous people of the south want them to fail

I was under the impression it was a few of the terrorist groups who wanted them to fail.

Not sure how they can succeed if all the different groups do not come to an agreement and it is obvious that some of them are not even willing to talk about it.

[fasteddie]

Successful peace talks? Why 'negotiate' with terrorists? They all deserve to meet their fate, and sooner the better.

But their fate could be the creation of their own state as in Israeli "terrorists", or the assumption of power as in the ANC "terrorists", or even just acceptance into the democratic process as in the IRA "terrorists", one man's "terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter. Peace talks are the only way and must not be allowed to fail because that is what the majority of the indigenous people of the south want.

I am confused are you saying the majority of the indigenous people of the south want them to fail

I was under the impression it was a few of the terrorist groups who wanted them to fail.

Not sure how they can succeed if all the different groups do not come to an agreement and it is obvious that some of them are not even willing to talk about it.

OK I didn't put that too well, what I meant was "peace" is what they want.

True enough, not all of them are willing to talk, but some are and that's a start, hopefully as progress is made, more will wish to become a part of the peace process, but the Thais will have to make some serious concessions.

[55Jay]

Hard liners don't want any "deals", they want what they want, which is a concession the Thai government can not ever agree to.

Those who participate in talks are collaborators and will be targeted, such as the chap in this article participating in KL talks, and also sends a clear message to any others who do the same. If the participants grow a set of chops, that will do nothing to protect their family members and the general population from those who have demonstrated the will to kill civilians, including fellow Muslims (as martyrs), in order to bring more pressure to bear.

Average citizen wants peace, they may not actually care whether that be under Malaysian or Thai governance. The populace has to pick a side, rise up and point out the hard liners who keep the fear and pressure on them, and have them removed. Only then will this have a chance of ending, and in a way suitable for the Thai Government. JMO.

[NeverSure]

Typical inane garbage from this reporter. The devil is in the details. First of all a M60 is not a rifle. It is a general purpose machine gun (GPMG). Secondly what does the term "shells were found" denote ? were these live rounds or simply spent casings. If they were found in an engagement area they are most probably spent casings. There is no way you can match a live round to a specific weapon. You can obtain a high potential match from the ejector marks on a a spent shell casing, however, you need to have the weapon in your possesion in order to obtain verification.

The most conclusive match of a projectile to a specific weapon is by the examinination of the rifiling marks which are engraved on the projectile as it travels down the barrel, however, in order to do this you need to have a fired projectile which is in fairly good condition and again you need the specific weapon in order to make the ballistic assessment.

The M60 is a most formibable weapon. It is a high velocity weapon using 7.62 NATO rounds with a rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute. The weapon is belt fed and air cooled and weighs around 10 Kg without the tripod mount which contributes another 6 Kg.

The only plausable thing in this whole report from a ballaisics point of view would be that spent casings from a 7.62 caliber round were found and had simelar ejector markings comparable with a M60 machine gun.

Once again , the devil is in the details.

"Police also collected 92 shells of M-60 machine-gun rounds and 44 M-16 shells at the scene. They initially determined that the M60 casings were fired from a gun stolen from one of the victims of the January 15, 2008 attack.

Police are trying to determine which insurgent used this gun, police said, adding that they suspect the same weapon was used in another

attack on a garment factory on January 6, 2012 that killed two Rusoh district defence volunteers and wounded three others."

OK, one piece at a time.

"They initially determined the the M60 casings were fired from a gun stolen..." So they were spent shells and would have marks not only from the extractor, but possibly from the chamber. The casings are much softer than the chamber, and the expansion from the "explosion" can imprint the chamber's tooling mark pattern into the casing.

"They initially determined that the M60 casings were fired from a gun stolen..." So they must have some spent casings from an earlier time, collected perhaps from the owner or by other means, to compare.

"...they suspect the same weapon was used in another attack on a garment factory on January 6, 2012..." So, they may also have some more spent casings from that incident, or they may have a suspect, or other reasons to believe this.

I agree that this is a nasty weapon and is all you said it is, and retrieving it and whoever is in possession should be job #1.

Edited April 14, 2013 by NeverSure

[Tywais]

Handled a M60 many years ago in the military and it is an impressive piece of hardware. Designed to allow shoulder held shooting also but take a look at this clip when he is firing shoulder held. Originally the M60 could only be fired continuously for 1 minute before it had to be broken down and the barrow replaced. Lot's of improvements since.

[NeverSure]

Handled a M60 many years ago in the military and it is an impressive piece of hardware. Designed to allow shoulder held shooting also but take a look at this clip when he is firing shoulder held. Originally the M60 could only be fired continuously for 1 minute before it had to be broken down and the barrow replaced. Lot's of improvements since.

I don't see a clip, or even a magazine. I see a belt hahaha. JOKING!!!!!

Yes, but wouldn't you just hate to fire that from the shoulder? I would. I have the same caliber in an AR-10 and dang, one mag of 20 rounds will leave my shoulder really bruised unless I use something like a Limbsaver slip-on pad. Even then, watch the guy near the end of the vid bounce around as he fires from a standing position.

From a prone position, at least you can plant the bipod.

Dang.

Edited April 14, 2013 by NeverSure

[OzMick]

I don't see a clip, or even a magazine. I see a belt hahaha. JOKING!!!!!

Yes, but wouldn't you just hate to fire that from the shoulder? I would. I have the same caliber in an AR-10 and dang, one mag of 20 rounds will leave my shoulder really bruised unless I use something like a Limbsaver slip-on pad. Even then, watch the guy near the end of the vid bounce around as he fires from a standing position.

From a prone position, at least you can plant the bipod.

Dang.

The M-60 has a shock absorber in the stock which helps. Before firing, you use a bullet tip to pop the stock, remove the shock absorber and wipe off any oil before firing - saves a lot of pain. After 40 years I remember the procedure, not the reasons.

[NeverSure]

I don't see a clip, or even a magazine. I see a belt hahaha. JOKING!!!!!

Yes, but wouldn't you just hate to fire that from the shoulder? I would. I have the same caliber in an AR-10 and dang, one mag of 20 rounds will leave my shoulder really bruised unless I use something like a Limbsaver slip-on pad. Even then, watch the guy near the end of the vid bounce around as he fires from a standing position.

From a prone position, at least you can plant the bipod.

Dang.

The M-60 has a shock absorber in the stock which helps. Before firing, you use a bullet tip to pop the stock, remove the shock absorber and wipe off any oil before firing - saves a lot of pain. After 40 years I remember the procedure, not the reasons.

I didn't know that. That should help, but not heal, haha.

My AR-10 has a bump fire stock. It makes it essentially fully auto, but think of the cost!!!!! At more than a dollar a round right now, and more than 50 cents a round to reload, think of the time and money you can burn at 600 rounds per minute!! $600 per minute to shoot it!!!! That's almost 18,000 baht per minute!!!

I don't do it. I lock the stock.

Edited April 14, 2013 by NeverSure

[OzMick]

I don't see a clip, or even a magazine. I see a belt hahaha. JOKING!!!!!

Yes, but wouldn't you just hate to fire that from the shoulder? I would. I have the same caliber in an AR-10 and dang, one mag of 20 rounds will leave my shoulder really bruised unless I use something like a Limbsaver slip-on pad. Even then, watch the guy near the end of the vid bounce around as he fires from a standing position.

From a prone position, at least you can plant the bipod.

Dang.

The M-60 has a shock absorber in the stock which helps. Before firing, you use a bullet tip to pop the stock, remove the shock absorber and wipe off any oil before firing - saves a lot of pain. After 40 years I remember the procedure, not the reasons.

I didn't know that. That should help, but not heal, haha.

My AR-10 has a bump fire stock. It makes it essentially fully auto, but think of the cost!!!!! At more than a dollar a round right now, and more than 50 cents a round to reload, think of the time and money you can burn at 600 rounds per minute!! $600 per minute to shoot it!!!! That's almost 18,000 baht per minute!!!

I don't do it. I lock the stock.

Biggest problem was not the cost, but the weight. Operational rate is far below cyclic rate (most of the time) but everybody in the section had to carry some belt - which could be broken up to fill mags for oz army 7.62 SLR. M-60 and its spares bag was heavy enough, but the weight of ammo was the killer, and why M-60 being superseded.

[rametindallas]

Successful peace talks? Why 'negotiate' with terrorists? They all deserve to meet their fate, and sooner the better.

But their fate could be the creation of their own state as in Israeli "terrorists", or the assumption of power as in the ANC "terrorists", or even just acceptance into the democratic process as in the IRA "terrorists", one man's "terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter. Peace talks are the only way and must not be allowed to fail because that is what the majority of the indigenous people of the south want.

I am confused are you saying the majority of the indigenous people of the south want them to fail

I was under the impression it was a few of the terrorist groups who wanted them to fail.

Not sure how they can succeed if all the different groups do not come to an agreement and it is obvious that some of them are not even willing to talk about it.

OK I didn't put that too well, what I meant was "peace" is what they want.

True enough, not all of them are willing to talk, but some are and that's a start, hopefully as progress is made, more will wish to become a part of the peace process, but the Thais will have to make some serious concessions.

"One rotten apple will spoil the whole barrel". As long as even one group doesn't buy into the peace plan, the military will stay and everyone will suffer.

"the Thais will have to make some serious concessions." These people in the south are Thais. Do you mean the Bangkok government will have to make serious concessions or the terrorists will have to make some serious concessions?

Personally, I would like for all the terrorists to concede their lives ASAP.