Why Not More Solar Energy?

[Kitsune]

Just be aware if the mains power goes out so does your solar system. You can have USD $100K worth of panels on your roof and not be able to re-charge your iPhone.

Are these chinese made?

[Naam]

Yes it plugs directly into a socket (onto the ring main), you'd need panels, brackets, cables and a grid tie inverter

Its the easiest and cheapest way to do it and makes sense in thailand where u have ample sun all day

plenty of info online

how much does a 1kw panel gets you ?

and how much does the panel cost? the inverters are quite cheap.

[Naam]

found some information and used it as a basis for a rough calculation:

total installation cost..................................................THB 118,700

estimated output in Thailand double of UK................kWh 3,400

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 13,600

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings p.a..........................................................THB 7,664

amortisation period....................................................years 15½

estimated output in Thailand triple of UK...................kWh 5,100

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 20,400

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings................................................................THB 14,464

amortisation period....................................................years 8.2

[boosta]

Is that doubling vs tripling based on the increased proportion of sunlight available here?

Does it take into account the lower electric rates here?

And note so far there hasn't been the legal framework put in place for homeowners to do this legally right?

[Kitsune]

Gee 15 years to get your money back !

[boosta]

Not counting maintenance/replacement costs either, cheap panels likely won't even last that long.

[Kitsune]

Not counting maintenance/replacement costs either, cheap panels likely won't even last that long.

so really not worth it

shame

[krisb]

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s3008638.htm

forget solar panels.

[boosta]

Solar panels are valuable tech, a wonderful thing - for the right application.

Mobile uses, remote locations, homesteading off the grid.

Just have to design your systems to minimize electricity usage, maximize efficiency, not just take a normal incredibly-wasteful house and try to power it from the sun. Minimize inverter usage by using native DC (12 or 24v appliances), fridge and direct IC engines running off LPG, direct-solar hot water with well-insulated tanks.

Batteries and supplemental generators complete the package.

Ends up being just as cheap as paying electric bills amortized over say 5-7 years and you've got more security being self-sufficient.

Plus you can buy land off in the bush far from civilization at very cheap prices, walk around nekked if you like.

Well maybe not in Thailand. . .

[Kitsune]

Solar panels are valuable tech, a wonderful thing - for the right application.

Mobile uses, remote locations, homesteading off the grid.

Just have to design your systems to minimize electricity usage, maximize efficiency, not just take a normal incredibly-wasteful house and try to power it from the sun. Minimize inverter usage by using native DC (12 or 24v appliances), fridge and direct IC engines running off LPG, direct-solar hot water with well-insulated tanks.

Batteries and supplemental generators complete the package.

Ends up being just as cheap as paying electric bills amortized over say 5-7 years and you've got more security being self-sufficient.

Plus you can buy land off in the bush far from civilization at very cheap prices, walk around nekked if you like.

Well maybe not in Thailand. . .

nekked or naked?

[Payboy]

found some information and used it as a basis for a rough calculation:

total installation cost..................................................THB 118,700

estimated output in Thailand double of UK................kWh 3,400

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 13,600

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings p.a..........................................................THB 7,664

amortisation period....................................................years 15½

estimated output in Thailand triple of UK...................kWh 5,100

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 20,400

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings................................................................THB 14,464

amortisation period....................................................years 8.2

PV Panels.jpg

Any info on the life expectancy of the panels?

[Naam]

found some information and used it as a basis for a rough calculation:

total installation cost..................................................THB 118,700

estimated output in Thailand double of UK................kWh 3,400

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 13,600

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings p.a..........................................................THB 7,664

amortisation period....................................................years 15½

estimated output in Thailand triple of UK...................kWh 5,100

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 20,400

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings................................................................THB 14,464

amortisation period....................................................years 8.2

PV Panels.jpg

Any info on the life expectancy of the panels?

manufacturers claim 20-25 years... but then we all know how true claims from manufacturers are

[Payboy]

found some information and used it as a basis for a rough calculation:

total installation cost..................................................THB 118,700

estimated output in Thailand double of UK................kWh 3,400

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 13,600

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings p.a..........................................................THB 7,664

amortisation period....................................................years 15½

estimated output in Thailand triple of UK...................kWh 5,100

energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh................................THB 20,400

blocked capital @ 5% interest p.a.............................THB -5,936

net savings................................................................THB 14,464

amortisation period....................................................years 8.2

PV Panels.jpg

Any info on the life expectancy of the panels?

manufacturers claim 20-25 years... but then we all know how true claims from manufacturers are

So, most likely half of that = 10-12 years. Output should peak at 5-6 years.

[Naam]

1. Is that doubling vs tripling based on the increased proportion of sunlight available here?

2. Does it take into account the lower electric rates here?

3. And note so far there hasn't been the legal framework put in place for homeowners to do this legally right?

1. yes "estimated output in Thailand"

2. yes, "energy savings THB 4.00 / kWh

3. no legal framework required!

[boosta]

3. no legal framework required!

-

Big grain of salt here.

The electric authority's just fine with people plugging unregulated generating tech into their wall plug to slow down their meter spinning - even running it in reverse if the power generated exceeds current consumption.

Really? Color me skeptic, I'm pretty sure there'd be some regulation somewhere requiring their approval. . .

In theory you should get paid from them if your meter ends up lower at the end of the month than it started at the beginning, but I can't see that happening until they come up with an official scheme for consumers to do this.

[jbrain]

Yes it plugs directly into a socket (onto the ring main), you'd need panels, brackets, cables and a grid tie inverter

Its the easiest and cheapest way to do it and makes sense in thailand where u have ample sun all day

plenty of info online

how much does a 1kw panel gets you ?

and how much does the panel cost? the inverters are quite cheap.

The quite cheap inverters will last you a few months when used on continious base. Count at least 50-60.000 Baht for a suitable inverter.

[Naam]

3. no legal framework required!

-

Big grain of salt here.

The electric authority's just fine with people plugging unregulated generating tech into their wall plug to slow down their meter spinning - even running it in reverse if the power generated exceeds current consumption.

Really? Color me skeptic, I'm pretty sure there'd be some regulation somewhere requiring their approval. . .

In theory you should get paid from them if your meter ends up lower at the end of the month than it started at the beginning, but I can't see that happening until they come up with an official scheme for consumers to do this.

with my daily average consumption of 110-125 kWh i wouldn't face the problem of my meter running backwards.

[jbrain]

3. no legal framework required!

-

Big grain of salt here.

The electric authority's just fine with people plugging unregulated generating tech into their wall plug to slow down their meter spinning - even running it in reverse if the power generated exceeds current consumption.

Really? Color me skeptic, I'm pretty sure there'd be some regulation somewhere requiring their approval. . .

In theory you should get paid from them if your meter ends up lower at the end of the month than it started at the beginning, but I can't see that happening until they come up with an official scheme for consumers to do this.

I guess you could wake up one day without an electricity meter and a PEA lawyer knocking on the door ( since the bell doesn't work anymore) if they find out.

[jbrain]

Did someone any Chinese company that send 100 watt solar cells to Thailand?

What is price in china?

How high solar cells taxed in thailand?

At 5,800 Baht from Amorn Solar http://www.amornsolar.com/ it's barely worth the hassle of importing them.

But Crossy, according to this post from Feesbay John that 120 Watt panel would cost only about 1500 Baht if purchased from him. I calculate 4.6 Kw at 56.500 Baht divided in 120Watt panels.

Edited June 16, 2013 by jbrain

[Crossy]

Did someone any Chinese company that send 100 watt solar cells to Thailand?

What is price in china?

How high solar cells taxed in thailand?

At 5,800 Baht from Amorn Solar http://www.amornsolar.com/ it's barely worth the hassle of importing them.

But Crossy, according to this post from Feesbay John that 120 Watt panel would cost only about 1500 Baht if purchased from him. I calculate 4.6 Kw at 56.500 Baht divided in 120Watt panels.

I'm 100% certain his price was purely for the inverter.

[jbrain]

Did someone any Chinese company that send 100 watt solar cells to Thailand?

What is price in china?

How high solar cells taxed in thailand?

At 5,800 Baht from Amorn Solar http://www.amornsolar.com/ it's barely worth the hassle of importing them.

But Crossy, according to this post from Feesbay John that 120 Watt panel would cost only about 1500 Baht if purchased from him. I calculate 4.6 Kw at 56.500 Baht divided in 120Watt panels.

I'm 100% certain his price was purely for the inverter.

You're definitely right that something wasn't right with that an most of his other posts, that was also why I digged it up again, as he has made several announcements but has never proved anything .

He was also the poster who claimed that there was a charge back plan for private customers with the PEA, but till date has still failed to submit a credible link.

But I also have never seen an inverter that is rated at 4.6 Kw and also no inverter which has a surge capacity of only 10% above it's normal rating.

Edited June 16, 2013 by jbrain

[Naam]

Did someone any Chinese company that send 100 watt solar cells to Thailand?

What is price in china?

How high solar cells taxed in thailand?

At 5,800 Baht from Amorn Solar http://www.amornsolar.com/ it's barely worth the hassle of importing them.

But Crossy, according to this post from Feesbay John that 120 Watt panel would cost only about 1500 Baht if purchased from him. I calculate 4.6 Kw at 56.500 Baht divided in 120Watt panels.

I'm 100% certain his price was purely for the inverter.

Crossy,

searching online one gets confusing prices for grid tie inverters, ranging from £100 to £>1,000

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&as_q=grid+tie+inverter+prices&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=#q=grid+tie+inverter+prices&lr=&hl=en&as_qdr=all&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=KSm-UfXVMoHtrAftm4G4CQ&ved=0CJoBELMY&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.47883778,d.bmk&fp=ea1496b524d85cad&biw=1280&bih=809

questions:

-what's the difference between a normal inverter used for back-up power and a "grid" one?

-what happens when plugging the output of a normal inverter into a socket? smoke and flames?

[Crossy]

questions:

-what's the difference between a normal inverter used for back-up power and a "grid" one?

-what happens when plugging the output of a normal inverter into a socket? smoke and flames?

The pricing differences between the various grid-tie inverters is mostly due to their generating capacity (Watts), some have rectifiers and control gear for your wind-turbine dump load which can push up the cost.

A grid-tie inverter can synchronise itself to the incoming mains supply and can then 'push' power back into the grid, reducing the amount of power consumed from the grid and making your meter go backwards if you are using less than you're generating. The meter goes forwards again at night of course so you are effectively using the grid as power storage. Grid-tie systems do NOT have (very expensive) batteries.

It is important to note that a grid-tie system will NOT keep the lights on when your mains is off due to 'island protection' preventing back feed to a dead grid.

If you need to keep the lights on when the power is off you need a 'hybrid' inverter which offers UPS type functionality using batteries and feeds power to the grid when the batteries are fully charged, these can get very expensive.

Connecting a normal inverter to a live outlet will lead to a bang and the inverter ceasing to invert

[Naam]

thanks Crossy, but still need an explanation concerning the price difference of grid tie inverters, e.g.

-500W for £82.-

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/121015703361?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63

and

-700W for £610.-

http://www.orionairsales.co.uk/mastervolt-soladin-700-grid-tie-inverter-327-p.asp?gclid=CJ3j4oqM7LcCFWIl4god0H0ARg

[Crossy]

thanks Crossy, but still need an explanation concerning the price difference of grid tie inverters, e.g.

-500W for £82.-

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/121015703361?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63

and

-700W for £610.-

http://www.orionairsales.co.uk/mastervolt-soladin-700-grid-tie-inverter-327-p.asp?gclid=CJ3j4oqM7LcCFWIl4god0H0ARg

I'm not even going to attempt to explain the pricing policy of 'premium' suppliers, you could try asking OrionAir, I'm sure they'll come up with a suitably BS explanation.

Cheap Chinese carp vs. expensive Chinese carp in a flashy box

[jbrain]

thanks Crossy, but still need an explanation concerning the price difference of grid tie inverters, e.g.

-500W for £82.-

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/121015703361?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63

and

-700W for £610.-

http://www.orionairsales.co.uk/mastervolt-soladin-700-grid-tie-inverter-327-p.asp?gclid=CJ3j4oqM7LcCFWIl4god0H0ARg

I'm not even going to attempt to explain the pricing policy of 'premium' suppliers, you could try asking OrionAir, I'm sure they'll come up with a suitably BS explanation.

Cheap Chinese carp vs. expensive Chinese carp in a flashy box

With a 5 year warranty on the latter one they must be pretty confident about the quality.

Judging from the weight of only 2 kg, I guess it's also transformerless.

[Benjie]

thanks Crossy, but still need an explanation concerning the price difference of grid tie inverters, e.g.

-500W for £82.-

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/121015703361?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=63

and

-700W for £610.-

http://www.orionairsales.co.uk/mastervolt-soladin-700-grid-tie-inverter-327-p.asp?gclid=CJ3j4oqM7LcCFWIl4god0H0ARg

I'm not even going to attempt to explain the pricing policy of 'premium' suppliers, you could try asking OrionAir, I'm sure they'll come up with a suitably BS explanation.

Cheap Chinese carp vs. expensive Chinese carp in a flashy box

With a 5 year warranty on the latter one they must be pretty confident about the quality.

Judging from the weight of only 2 kg, I guess it's also transformerless.

Or they've built enough profit into it that it doesn't matter if they have to replace it once or twice.

[boosta]

Yes, so few people bother returning if you get more sales by offering a warranty just bump the price a bit to cover the few that do.

[jbrain]

Yes, so few people bother returning if you get more sales by offering a warranty just bump the price a bit to cover the few that do.

Googling Mastervolt Soladin gives a lot of results, many positive and none of them really negative. Seems to be a Dutch company established for many years already.

I'm not sure if googling the other inverter would bear any results other the ebay listings.

[mogandave]

Assuming the make good on the warrantee at all.