Why Not More Solar Energy?

[crazygreg44]

If that customer saves 2080 Baht a month just by pushing electricity back in the grid, that equals to 452 Kwh or 15 KwH/day at the rate I was charged last month.

Now explain to us how 2800 Watt max rated panels can generate 15 KwH a day.

2.8kw x 5.5 = 15.4kw per day

2.8kw of solar panels is per hour not per day. BUT we x it by only 5.5 hours of direct sunlight

My excuses, I was wrong in my calculations and theoretical it should be possible to generate 15 Kw per day under ideal circumstances.

Now, lets be realistic, 2,8 Kw will give you at best 30% less after taking in account the climate and the efficiency of the inverter. Then you can garantee 5,5 hours of direct sunlight every day ?

I think I was lucky if I had 1 hour today in Pattaya.

See this is were you always look on the down side, how many days a year do we get in Thailand with only 1 hour of sun light. BUT also keep in mind that even when the sun is not shining but there is light a solar panel can still generate electric.

The efficiency of the grid tie is the key, the one;s we have are upt o 97% efficient, The 30% lose you are talking about is if you use a battery bank. You have to put in a battery bank 30% more than you can take out. BUT not with a grid tie.

this is big BS talk about sunlight direct vs a cloudy day ,at temperatures unto which a solar panel does only give out 60% of it's maximum output.

You all are talking into your <deleted> . . . .

[Sayonarax]

all the calculations on wattage, estimate outputs, price comparisons etc are obsolete. The statistics that all these figures are based on, may have derived from experiences achieved in countries with moderate climate.

Folks, don't ever forget, this is Thailand

Upcountry, I have come upon numerous solar panels used for monk quarters. ALL . .yes, all of them were abandoned, given up. Smug, shatter, demolish, forget it.

Battery storage ? Hell, they start to boil in the hot season. Will they work for two years ? Chok dee, maybe !

you folks here started a useless discussion, IMHO. Get smart, read about solar panel output, life expectancy, watt vs costs.

I think while I am shagging my pimmy, i get a better energy vs. investment result than your average solar rooftop . . . .

stop giving disinformation, worse than the government.

[Sayonarax]

If that customer saves 2080 Baht a month just by pushing electricity back in the grid, that equals to 452 Kwh or 15 KwH/day at the rate I was charged last month.

Now explain to us how 2800 Watt max rated panels can generate 15 KwH a day.

2.8kw x 5.5 = 15.4kw per day

2.8kw of solar panels is per hour not per day. BUT we x it by only 5.5 hours of direct sunlight

My excuses, I was wrong in my calculations and theoretical it should be possible to generate 15 Kw per day under ideal circumstances.

Now, lets be realistic, 2,8 Kw will give you at best 30% less after taking in account the climate and the efficiency of the inverter. Then you can garantee 5,5 hours of direct sunlight every day ?

I think I was lucky if I had 1 hour today in Pattaya.

See this is were you always look on the down side, how many days a year do we get in Thailand with only 1 hour of sun light. BUT also keep in mind that even when the sun is not shining but there is light a solar panel can still generate electric.

The efficiency of the grid tie is the key, the one;s we have are upt o 97% efficient, The 30% lose you are talking about is if you use a battery bank. You have to put in a battery bank 30% more than you can take out. BUT not with a grid tie.

this is big BS talk about sunlight direct vs a cloudy day ,at temperatures unto which a solar panel does only give out 60% of it's maximum output.

You all are talking into your <deleted> . . . .

lol put ya head back in the sand.

[manarak]

why guess insolation when data is available:

http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/pattaya.html

the average insolation in Pattaya is 4.96 kWh/m2 per day.

Edited June 25, 2013 by manarak

[jbrain]

why guess insolation when data is available:

http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/pattaya.html

the average insolation in Pattaya is 4.96 kWh/m2 per day.

Ok I bite, how does that translate to solar panels ?

I'm sure it doesn't mean that every sqm of panels will produce 4,96 Kwh per day.

[manarak]

why guess insolation when data is available:

http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/pattaya.html

the average insolation in Pattaya is 4.96 kWh/m2 per day.

Ok I bite, how does that translate to solar panels ?

I'm sure it doesn't mean that every sqm of panels will produce 4,96 Kwh per day.

I made all the bottom-up calculations in one of my older posts:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/342654-solar-powered-home-in-thailand/#entry3374065

[Sayonarax]

why guess insolation when data is available:http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/pattaya.htmlthe average insolation in Pattaya is 4.96 kWh/m2 per day.

Ok I bite, how does that translate to solar panels ? I'm sure it doesn't mean that every sqm of panels will produce 4,96 Kwh per day.

I made all the bottom-up calculations in one of my older posts:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/342654-solar-powered-home-in-thailand/#entry3374065

great work, at least some of us are willing to try new things.

[bonobo]

Part of the issue is that most of the passive solar heating systems don't really have much of a demand in Thailand. I had a house in North Carolina that heated tubes of a water/something mixture, then at night, slowly released that energy into the home. I never turned on the oil heater at night in over three years of living there. In California, I had a hot water heater on the roof. I heated my home water as well as my pool, all at the pitance it took for the small pump to lift the water to the roof.

Neither of these two applications would have much use in Thailand.

We do have solar generating plants in the US that could work here. They use mirrors to turn water into steam that then produce electricity. These plants, though, have a longer ROI and use more land space than a conventional gas-fired plant to generate the same amount of electricity.

For photoelectric, the efficiencies get better each year, and with the Chinese jumping into the game, I think you will see more and more of them being installed and used in the future.

[manarak]

why guess insolation when data is available:http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/pattaya.htmlthe average insolation in Pattaya is 4.96 kWh/m2 per day.

Ok I bite, how does that translate to solar panels ? I'm sure it doesn't mean that every sqm of panels will produce 4,96 Kwh per day.

I made all the bottom-up calculations in one of my older posts:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/342654-solar-powered-home-in-thailand/#entry3374065

great work, at least some of us are willing to try new things.

Some data was inaccurate due to misleading information from manufacturers.

The corrected calculation can be found in a later post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/342654-solar-powered-home-in-thailand/page-2#entry3379586

One of the things I want to make a calculation for, is checking if a very simple solar installation could be economically viable.

For this, I imagine solar panels producing energy that gets directly used by appliances in the house, without the need for storage.

Still thinking about the design of such a simplified circuit.

I did some more thinking about energy costs, and came to the conclusion that for people using aircon, a big amount can be saved through better house design.

For example, I would make sure all walls are shielded from the sun, i.e. never directly exposed to the sun, by building a wide enough roof.

Also, I would separate the roof from the house, i.e. build the roof on some pillars and beams with free air circulation under the roof. This could make for some extra living space as well, for example by using that roofed space above the single-floor house for a dining table or a storage space, roofed bbq area, whatever.

Also thought about having pool water circulation inside the walls (heating the pool water and cooling the house), but this would be a big thing to build and a potential future headache - also needs a pump.

And having the kitchen outside and not inside the house is of course a must for avoiding the grease and also avoiding unnecessary heat sources.

People using computer equipment might want to put these in a closet equipped with an air exhaust. I know my computers develop a lot of heat.

Edited June 25, 2013 by manarak

[steinpat]

yes build your house to not use so much electric will pay back much more than generate yourself