Phnom Penh Accepted Thai View Years Ago: Temple Team

[webfact]

WORLD COURT
P Penh accepted Thai view years ago: temple team
Supalak Ganjanakhundee
The Nation
The Hague, Netherlands



THE HAGUE: -- Thailand's legal team says it has seen a lot of loopholes in Cambodia's arguments in the court battle over the Preah Vihear dispute and will emphasise those weaknesses in the hearing today.

On Monday, the first day of the hearing, Cambodia told the court that it has never accepted the unilateral delimitation of Preah Vihear's vicinity made by the Thai cabinet in 1962 following the International Court of Justice (ICJ)'s judgement.

Cambodia has on many occasions over the past 50 years expressed its disagreement with the Thai action. Phnom Penh suggested to the court that the 1962 judgement, which found that Preah Vihear was situated in territory under the sovereignty of Cambodia, is the consequence of the existing international boundary line. That boundary line is defined only by the French-made 1:200,000 scale map.

The ICJ ruled in 1962 that the Hindu temple is under Cambodian sovereignty and ordered Thailand to withdraw troops from the temple and its vicinity.

To comply with the court judgement, the Thai cabinet in 1962 relinquished a quarter of a square kilometre of the land on which the temple sits and its immediate vicinity. Cambodia argues that this action went against the court's judgement. The temple vicinity from where Thailand must withdraw its troops should be in accordance with the boundary line shown on the map, Cambodia's counsel team told the court.

Thailand will today tell the 17-member court that Cambodia has de-facto acknowledged the vicinity determined by Thailand since 1962. The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert.

"Cambodia said they have never accepted it but we will tell the court that they have already accepted it," Phongthep said. "They believe their reason is convincing; we also believe in ours," he said.

Foreign Ministry deputy permanent secretary Nattavudh Photisaro said the Thai legal team held several rounds of meetings to analyse the Cambodian testimony and found it matched the Thai preparations for counter arguments.

The map would be a major topic and legal counsels and experts would explain its inaccuracy to the court, he said. Several copies of the map were produced and the map itself was inaccurate when translated to real terrain, he said.

Thailand's main argument is that the map was not the crucial part in the 1962 judgement. It was not mentioned in the operative clause of the judgement.

Cambodia argued earlier that the map, which was referred to in the court as Annex I, was inseparable from the main judgement. The court should take the map into account when interpreting the 1962 judgement.

Cambodia's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Hor Namhong said Cambodia gave weight to the map in its presentation to the court as it was fundamental to the 1962 judgement.


-- The Nation 2013-04-17

[Thai at Heart]

Cambodia said they have never accepted it but we will tell the court that they have already accepted it," Phongthep said.

Classic

[Locationthailand]

Let's wait and see as this unfurls because it could have some serious impact on many people's lives.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Locationthailand

[Bluespunk]

Thailand will today tell the 17-member court that Cambodia has de-facto acknowledged the vicinity determined by Thailand since 1962. The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert.

With arguments as puerile as that I would venture to suggest he is not a legal expert.

(I'm fairly sure the forum rules don't allow me to say what he is, but he is one, a great big one).

Edited April 17, 2013 by Bluespunk

[DocN]

Oooooooooooooooooh, of course they have!

[DiamondKing]

LOL the only problem for the THAI legal team is they are in front of REAL LEGAL EXPERTS that they have to present their case to, now we all know if they were in front of a thai panel their argument would be VERY BELIEVABLE but that is not the case THIS IS THE REAL WORLD where ALL EVIDENCE is taken into account and the judgment given to the party that proves their case.

Edited April 17, 2013 by DiamondKing

[FarangTalk]

The Thais think that because they put barbed wire around the area back in 1962 after the ICJ's decision (after they were told to withdraw their military from the temple and they left in a huff, digging up their flagpole and transplanting it elsewhere instead of lowering the flag! Even then they were acting like belligerent children), and because the Cambodians didn't complain that they somehow have a case!

It's one of the most childish and ridiculous arguments I have heard so far in this dispute. The Cambodians responded by revealing they did in fact send letters to the UN complaining about Thailand cordoning off the area with barbed wire.

Edited April 17, 2013 by FarangTalk

[whybother]

Considering that the courts ruled in favour of Cambodia in 1962 because Thailand "didn't complain" about the maps attached to the border treaty in 1908 (four years after the treaty was signed), it could be quite possible that they will rule in favour of Thailand in this "clarification" case because Cambodia "didn't complain" about the line of the fence Thailand put up in 1962.

Edited April 17, 2013 by whybother

[FarangTalk]

Considering that the courts ruled in favour of Cambodia in 1962 because Thailand "didn't complain" about the maps attached to the border treaty in 1908 (four years after the treaty was signed), it could be quite possible that they will rule in favour of Thailand in this "clarification" case because Cambodia "didn't complain" about the line of the fence Thailand put up in 1962.

They did complain, they sent letter to the UN.

[kimamey]

Thailand will today tell the 17-member court that Cambodia has de-facto acknowledged the vicinity determined by Thailand since 1962. The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert.

With arguments as puerile as that I would venture to suggest he is not a legal expert.

(I'm fairly sure the forum rules don't allow me to say what he is, but he is one, a great big one).

Sadly he's the Education Minister.

[hellodolly]

Thailand will today tell the 17-member court that Cambodia has de-facto acknowledged the vicinity determined by Thailand since 1962. The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert.

With arguments as puerile as that I would venture to suggest he is not a legal expert.

(I'm fairly sure the forum rules don't allow me to say what he is, but he is one, a great big one).

If they had in De-Facto acknowledged Thailand's sovereignty over the property what were the yellow shirts up in arms for.

Are you suggesting circumcision would be in order for some ones head.

[tragickingdom]

Grow up! What are we talking about here a few rai of land? Let Cambodia buy it, or swap it for another plot somewhere at the border. It is all a big expensive show to satisfy the ultra nationalist an the royalist movement. The entire saga is bad for the image of Thailand bad for the people of Sisaket and bad for the development and credibility of the country.

We can predict the next step already. A few hundred yellow shirts marching on Cambodia. Let's hope that the Khmer can arrest the leaders and lock them away for a lifetime. The Thai authorities do not dare to catch them.

[DiamondKing]

Grow up! What are we talking about here a few rai of land? Let Cambodia buy it, or swap it for another plot somewhere at the border. It is all a big expensive show to satisfy the ultra nationalist an the royalist movement. The entire saga is bad for the image of Thailand bad for the people of Sisaket and bad for the development and credibility of the country.

We can predict the next step already. A few hundred yellow shirts marching on Cambodia. Let's hope that the Khmer can arrest the leaders and lock them away for a lifetime. The Thai authorities do not dare to catch them.

Its not Thailand and why would Cambodia buy their own land this has be ruled on once before Thailand just Chose to ignore the ruling

Edited April 17, 2013 by DiamondKing

[siampolee]

The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious, according to Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Phongthep Thepkanjana, who is also a legal expert.

The noises of disagreement from Cambodian leaders over the past years were neither official nor serious,

Surely that statement in itself is also the same as the situation concerning Thailand too, seems as if there were nio big issues over the years until recently .

The recent reactions from Thailand and Cambodia have been inspired for what reasons and to which nations or persons benefit are the reactions on behalf of ?

I seem to recall a vague comment that there was a large shale deposit in the immediate area and it seems as if that shale deposit may be the entrance to mineral wealth in the guise of oil.

When one considers both these sovereign states adopt Buddhism as their national religion I find it somewhat interesting that there is all this kerfuffle over a Hindu temple.

In view of the above fact I think we can safely rule out any religious issues. So what is the real issue that is at stake and as I have already said what or who are the interested parties in this legal action ?

A kilo of gold to a ton of solid male bovine fecal matter that in reality it is not a national border line issue there are too many hidden factors and unanswered questions for it to be just a simple national border line issue.

[Thai at Heart]

The " we will tell you what you have accepted" argument which can be cunningly countered with " oh no we didn't", "oh yes you did".

And the pantomime continues. I presume they have a signed document somewhere which says,

" we the Cambodian government hereby accept what the Thais say is the border".

What chance they have one?

[whybother]

Considering that the courts ruled in favour of Cambodia in 1962 because Thailand "didn't complain" about the maps attached to the border treaty in 1908 (four years after the treaty was signed), it could be quite possible that they will rule in favour of Thailand in this "clarification" case because Cambodia "didn't complain" about the line of the fence Thailand put up in 1962.

They did complain, they sent letter to the UN.

When?

[whybother]

Grow up! What are we talking about here a few rai of land? Let Cambodia buy it, or swap it for another plot somewhere at the border. It is all a big expensive show to satisfy the ultra nationalist an the royalist movement. The entire saga is bad for the image of Thailand bad for the people of Sisaket and bad for the development and credibility of the country.

We can predict the next step already. A few hundred yellow shirts marching on Cambodia. Let's hope that the Khmer can arrest the leaders and lock them away for a lifetime. The Thai authorities do not dare to catch them.

Its not Thailand and why would Cambodia buy their own land this has be ruled on once before Thailand just Chose to ignore the ruling

Actually, this case is to determine IF it has been ruled on.

[jpinx]

Anyone got copies of the 1908 and 1962 maps they can post ?

[rubl]

Regarding maps, using http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/web and searching for
+ICJ +1962 +thailand +map

various maps can be found. Also the official statements from the 15th of June, 1962

[rubl]

Where Thailand has their 'patriots', I stumbled over Cambodian 'Sons of the Khmer Empire' while searching for maps. Seems both sides have their own brand of fanatics