Gun Vote " Shameful Day," Obama Says

[ToYoungToRetire]

I would like to invite anyone who doesnt believe in the 2nd amendment to leave the US and go a country where guns are illegal... If you dont like guns dont buy one, <deleted> idiots.

The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of individuals^[1][2] to keep and bear arms.^[3][4][5][6] The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right vests in individuals, not merely collective militias, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.^[7]State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal governmentfrom infringing this right per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments comprising the Bill of Rights.

The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.^[8]

In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that, "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence" and limited the applicability of the Second Amendment to the federal government.^[9] In United States v. Miller (1939), the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia”.^[10][11]

In the twenty-first century, the amendment has been subjected to renewed academic inquiry and judicial interest.^[11] In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Supreme Court handed down a landmark decision, expressly holding the amendment to protect an individual right to possess and carry firearms.^[12][13] In McDonald v. Chicago (2010), the Court clarified its earlier decisions that limited the amendment's impact to a restriction on the federal government, expressly holding that the Fourteenth Amendment applies the Second Amendment to state and local governments to the same extent that the Second Amendment applies to the federal government.^[14] Despite these decisions, the debate between the gun control and gun rights movements and related organizations continues.^[15]

Edited June 26, 2014 by metisdead

[neverdie]

Guns are already the most heavily regulated product in America. Maybe the anti-gun nuts should focus their attention on people with mental illnesses.

Seems like a good place to start...

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

Priceless. That's for that CC.

It would seem that 'Denial' is a fairly strong trait amongst the gun slingers and NRA crowd.

[neverdie]

The assault weapons ban was defeated by a vote of 60-40, with Democrats voting for the defeat.

The background check was not able to garner enough votes to defeat the filibuster rules.

Perhaps the Senate simply decided to get to work on what the American people seem to think is important.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gallup: Only 4% of Americans Think Gun Control is an Important Problem

April 16, 2013

By Michael James

(CNSNews.com) Only 4 percent of Americans think guns and gun control are an important problem facing the country, according to Gallup, and far more Americans are concerned about the economy, unemployment and the federal debt.

Respondents answered in the following order:

Economy in general 24%

Unemployment/Jobs 18%

Dissatisfaction with Government 16%

Federal budget deficit/Federal debt 11%

Healthcare 6%

Ethical/Moral/Family decline 5%

Immigration/Illegal aliens 4%

Education 4%

Guns/Gun control 4%

Situation with North Korea 4%

Lack of Money 3%

Welfare 2%

Lack of respect for each other 2%

Poverty/Hunger/Homelessness 2%

Foreign aid/Focus overseas 2%

Taxes 2%

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-only-4-americans-think-gun-control-important-problem

The stats shown do not match the conclusion you (they) have given. "Only 4% of Americans Think Gun Control is an Important Problem" - this is not what this shows at all, it simply shows that those polled thought other thongs listed were more important.

If I made a poll and said, which is more important: Gun control, giving all immigrants green cards on arrival, would that then show it was important? Comparisons show preference they do not show support. If the poll said: Gun Control is important to me, yes or no? - then it would show importance.

Lies, darned lies and statistics!

Well said Wolf. This is all part of the 'Distraction' phase the NRA trains their people for. It is also a standard for chuckd, he likes to throw up all sorts of useless statistics, it helps him look like what he's talking about.

I admire his passion. It's a shame it's so misguided. It's a real shame that so many people have died at the hands of crimes relating to guns, during the lifespan of this thread alone. That's the real tragedy.

[neverdie]

I would like to invite anyone who doesnt believe in the 2nd amendment to leave the US and go a country where guns are illegal... If you dont like guns dont buy one, <deleted> idiots.

Let me see, how does that silly statement make anyone safe? Are you suggesting that when all the people that disagree with the second amendment leave that all the senseless killings will stop?

Please wake up.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone was suggesting a complete removal of the second amendment, that's is NOT what this is about.

Finally, haven't you noticed that American Citizens are leaving the states in their droves.....they are being sent right from the planet in pine boxes, at no fault of their own.

[sustento]

Well said Wolf. This is all part of the 'Distraction' phase the NRA trains their people for. It is also a standard for chuckd, he likes to throw up all sorts of useless statistics, it helps him look like what he's talking about.

He spent 30 years selling arms to the Middle East...

[neverdie]

Well said Wolf. This is all part of the 'Distraction' phase the NRA trains their people for. It is also a standard for chuckd, he likes to throw up all sorts of useless statistics, it helps him look like what he's talking about.

He spent 30 years selling arms to the Middle East...

Well he has a vested interest perhaps, or maybe he justifies his life achievements by keeping his head in the sand, who knows. He is passionate and dedicated though, it's a pity that in the coming weeks more Americans will die for the cause though, it's sad, it's sickening.

[ToYoungToRetire]

I would like to invite anyone who doesnt believe in the 2nd amendment to leave the US and go a country where guns are illegal... If you dont like guns dont buy one, F*^&^%*g idiots.

Let me see, how does that silly statement make anyone safe? Are you suggesting that when all the people that disagree with the second amendment leave that all the senseless killings will stop?

Please wake up.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone was suggesting a complete removal of the second amendment, that's is NOT what this is about.

Finally, haven't you noticed that American Citizens are leaving the states in their droves.....they are being sent right from the planet in pine boxes, at no fault of their own.

I have a brilliant idea, lets make illegal to do "senseless killings" then they will all stop! Why hasnt anyone thought of this before!

Gun control laws worked so well for Chicago!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/21/federal-unit-chicago-crim_n_5187398.html

Gun laws take away guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals dont care if we pass a bunch of laws saying they cant have gun, they will still have guns they're criminals.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ToYoungToRetire

[neverdie]

I would like to invite anyone who doesnt believe in the 2nd amendment to leave the US and go a country where guns are illegal... If you dont like guns dont buy one, F*^&^%*g idiots.

Let me see, how does that silly statement make anyone safe? Are you suggesting that when all the people that disagree with the second amendment leave that all the senseless killings will stop?

Please wake up.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone was suggesting a complete removal of the second amendment, that's is NOT what this is about.

Finally, haven't you noticed that American Citizens are leaving the states in their droves.....they are being sent right from the planet in pine boxes, at no fault of their own.

I have a brilliant idea, lets make illegal to do "senseless killings" then they will all stop! Why hasnt anyone thought of this before!

Gun control laws worked so well for Chicago!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/21/federal-unit-chicago-crim_n_5187398.html

Gun laws take away guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals dont care if we pass a bunch of laws saying they cant have gun, they will still have guns they're criminals.

Please cast your eyes further abroad. Look outside your little world and see what others have done to fix certain problems.

Your statement is full of holes.

Gun related deaths will NEVER be stopped but the barrage of senseless slaughtering could and would be significantly reduced if you listened to John Howard. He's been over there before trying to help you out, but his very worthy advise seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

[ToYoungToRetire]

Please cast your eyes further abroad. Look outside your little world and see what others have done to fix certain problems.

Your statement is full of holes.

Gun related deaths will NEVER be stopped but the barrage of senseless slaughtering could and would be significantly reduced if you listened to John Howard. He's been over there before trying to help you out, but his very worthy advise seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

Do you understand the purpose of the Second Amendment?

FYI I want you to seriously consider the fact you want to ban an inanimate object. Guns dont kill people, guns are not the problem. Criminals are the problem.....

[notmyself]

Seems to me that the obvious answer to the insane level of gun crime in the US would be to arm every man, woman and child.

[ToYoungToRetire]

Do you think the 800,000 people in Rwanda would have liked to have a gun to defend themselves?

Do you think the 162,000 people in Syria would have liked to have a gun to defend themselves?

Do you think the 300,000 dead in Darfur would have like to have a gun to defend themselves?

The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to allow us to protect ourselves from our own govt. And it didnt specify that was can only have hunting rifles with limited capacity, it didnt say we couldnt have black guns because they look mean and scary to some people. It says we have the right to bear arms.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ToYoungToRetire

[neverdie]

Tooyoungtoretire,

Your writing but your not reading. Or if your reading, your not understanding.

The USA is not in it's own special bubble, the same laws of gravity apply everywhere on this planet.

Protecting yourself against the government. Might have been valid a very long time ago but are you seriously buying that nonesense for 2014.

There is a better way, but you decide to bury your head In the sand and carry on about a document that was written almost 225 years ago, meanwhile, innocent men, women, children and infants are being slayed in the streets. Surely there must be a way. to stop this madness. How bout some minor changes to the second amendment and some effective legislation to reduce the incidents of this.

Protecting yourself against the govenment in 2014..... give me a break, what sort of arsenal have you equipped yourself with there ?

Please be sensible.

[ToYoungToRetire]

This is the only thing gun control has and ever will accomplish...

[notmyself]

The purpose of the 2nd amendment is to allow us to protect ourselves from our own govt.

[ClutchClark]

Yes my guns are mean and scary looking to the uninformed but they're completely harmless in my hand

I was introduced to firearms at no later than five years of age, as was typical of farm and ranch kids. If I would have ever used the word "harmless" to describe a firearm I would have lost shooting privileges for a month. Its a very dangerous mindset to have with any weapon that can cause irreversible harm to anyone within a mile.

As a gunowner for seven decades, I have never understood the need to display ones firearms to strangers. It seems a rather odd compulsion.

[ToYoungToRetire]

Tooyoungtoretire,

Your writing but your not reading. Or if your reading, your not understanding.

The USA is not in it's own special bubble, the same laws of gravity apply everywhere on this planet.

Protecting yourself against the government. Might have been valid a very long time ago but are you seriously buying that nonesense for 2014.

There is a better way, but you decide to bury your head In the sand and carry on about a document that was written almost 225 years ago, meanwhile, innocent men, women, children and infants are being slayed in the streets. Surely there must be a way. to stop this madness. How bout some minor changes to the second amendment and some effective legislation to reduce the incidents of this.

Protecting yourself against the govenment in 2014..... give me a break, what sort of arsenal have you equipped yourself with there ?

Please be sensibl

I got a good chuckle out of that, thanks. Do you ever watch the news? Syria is happening right now There is no better way, please leave my country and go somewhere that guns are already illegal. I dont care if you take you freedom lightly and want to give it away in knee jerk reaction to an isolated shooting incident.

May 19, 2014 9:15 am

BEIRUT (Reuters) – At least 162,000 people have been killed in Syria’s three-year-old conflict,

Thats direct cut and paste from the link I so generously provided you, and I'm the one not reading?

[ToYoungToRetire]

As a gunowner for seven decades, I have never understood the need to display ones firearms to strangers. It seems a rather odd compulsion.

Because I want to make it clear that many of my weapons including ones not in that photo are on the proposed ban list. I have a very vested interest in talking to the uninformed and educating them so they dont give away my rights.

Harmless was perhaps the wrong word to use, but it got my point across.

Edited June 27, 2014 by ToYoungToRetire

[ClutchClark]

I would like to invite anyone who doesnt believe in the 2nd amendment to leave the US and go a country where guns are illegal... If you dont like guns dont buy one, F*^&^%*g idiots.

Let me see, how does that silly statement make anyone safe? Are you suggesting that when all the people that disagree with the second amendment leave that all the senseless killings will stop?

Please wake up.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone was suggesting a complete removal of the second amendment, that's is NOT what this is about.

Finally, haven't you noticed that American Citizens are leaving the states in their droves.....they are being sent right from the planet in pine boxes, at no fault of their own.

I have a brilliant idea, lets make illegal to do "senseless killings" then they will all stop! Why hasnt anyone thought of this before!

Gun control laws worked so well for Chicago!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/21/federal-unit-chicago-crim_n_5187398.html

Gun laws take away guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals dont care if we pass a bunch of laws saying they cant have gun, they will still have guns they're criminals.

Please cast your eyes further abroad. Look outside your little world and see what others have done to fix certain problems.

Your statement is full of holes.

Gun related deaths will NEVER be stopped but the barrage of senseless slaughtering could and would be significantly reduced if you listened to John Howard. He's been over there before trying to help you out, but his very worthy advise seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

NeverDie,

You are wasting your breath with this one. He is in the adolescent stage of his fascination with firearms and giddy about his new power.

The gunowners I know would describe him and his attitude as "an accident waiting to happen".

[ClutchClark]

As a gunowner for seven decades, I have never understood the need to display ones firearms to strangers. It seems a rather odd compulsion.

Because I want to make it clear that many of my weapons including ones not in that photo are on the proposed ban list. I have a very vested interest in talking to the uninformed and educating them so they dont give away my rights.

Harmless was perhaps the wrong word to use, but it got my point across.

More than you know.

[kurnell]

I don't have to read this thread to know that yanks will be saying 'guns are in the carn-stit-too-shun!' and non yanks think yanks are all gun happy Rambo wanna-be's.

[ToYoungToRetire]

NeverDie,

You are wasting your breath with this one. He is in the adolescent stage of his fascination with firearms and giddy about his new power.

The gunowners I know would describe him and his attitude as "an accident waiting to happen".

You're making a lot of assumptions... But please go ahead...

[notmyself]

It's not even about the wholesale banning of guns but rather placing restriction on who is allowed to own one.

More good news from the NRA?

[Ulysses G.]

Felons are already barred from buying guns and have been for many years. It is about the wholesale banning of guns, in the long run. I might actually support it, if it would not leave millions of weapons in the hands of criminals and no way for solid citizens to defend themselves.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[notmyself]

Felons are already barred from buying guns and have been for many years. It is about the wholesale banning of guns, in the long run. I might actually support it, if it would not leave millions of weapons in the hands of criminals and no way for solid citizens to defend themselves.

I tend to agree with you somewhat which is why tough regulation on the manufacture and sale of ammunition is the way to go.

[Diablo Bob]

Felons are already barred from buying guns and have been for many years. It is about the wholesale banning of guns, in the long run. I might actually support it, if it would not leave millions of weapons in the hands of criminals and no way for solid citizens to defend themselves.

I tend to agree with you somewhat which is why tough regulation on the manufacture and sale of ammunition is the way to go.

Great idea......

Chris explains: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw&feature=kp

[ClutchClark]

Please learn to respect your firearms. Proper handling includes not placing them on the very edge of the table where they are quite inclined to fall off (left side of photo). Learning to secure your weapon is just one part of the first lesson you should have been taught--firearm safety.

Psssst... thats not mine and I didnt set it there.. Remember I said I was shooting with friends....

I cant tell if you're just a seriously grumpy old man

I just happen to be someone who has owned firearms all my life and who finds your entire attitude dangerous and distasteful.

Heres a bit of useful advice: since your "friends" are so careless with firearms you might want to find more experienced shooting partners.

I just happen to be someone who has owned firearms all of my life and I served in the military. I find all of your assumptions hilarious and I'm having a good laugh at your expense.

How disheartening.

[notmyself]

When your car gets a flat tire do you change the shocks to fix it?

When your house is infested with rats, do you add more rats to fix it?

It's always the same old manta. More guns, more guns. Well the parents and people don't believe that even more guns is the solution any more, which is why the gun vote was a shameful day. What is it with guns and Americans? Go search through the 'general' section of the forum regarding where, how, what visa do I need to buy a gun in Thailand. I don't recall one (ever) that was not posted by an American.

[ToYoungToRetire]

When your car gets a flat tire do you change the shocks to fix it?

When your house is infested with rats, do you add more rats to fix it?

It's always the same old manta. More guns, more guns. Well the parents and people don't believe that even more guns is the solution any more, which is why the gun vote was a shameful day. What is it with guns and Americans? Go search through the 'general' section of the forum regarding where, how, what visa do I need to buy a gun in Thailand. I don't recall one (ever) that was not posted by an American.

FYI... I'm sure you're paying attention, but just incase you didnt notice I didnt say that. That was someone else.... Have you told your doctor about your memory problems and complete lack of logic skills?

[notmyself]

When your car gets a flat tire do you change the shocks to fix it?

When your house is infested with rats, do you add more rats to fix it?

It's always the same old manta. More guns, more guns. Well the parents and people don't believe that even more guns is the solution any more, which is why the gun vote was a shameful day. What is it with guns and Americans? Go search through the 'general' section of the forum regarding where, how, what visa do I need to buy a gun in Thailand. I don't recall one (ever) that was not posted by an American.

FYI... I'm sure you're paying attention, but just incase you didnt notice I didnt say that. That was someone else.... Have you told your doctor about your memory problems and complete lack of logic skills?

Never said you did but let me check.... Yep, never said you did member To[o]YoungToRetire. What I do say via my comment is that you are simply providing arguments which have previously crashed and burned on this very thread. You mentioned that this is a first step toward taken away ownership of guns completely. This is an assertion which you cannot even hope of backing up.

[chuckd]

Well said Wolf. This is all part of the 'Distraction' phase the NRA trains their people for. It is also a standard for chuckd, he likes to throw up all sorts of useless statistics, it helps him look like what he's talking about.

He spent 30 years selling arms to the Middle East...

Your zeal, as a non-American, to tell others how to lead their lives is admirable.

However, in your zeal, please stop lying about me.

If you don't know what my career encompassed, and you don't, I would request you not make up your own version.

A little common courtesy from both you and your cohort, neverdie, might be a nice change of pace.

Thank you for listening.