Will Thai Democrats Heed Reform Call Before It's Too Late?

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Will Democrats heed reform call before it's too late?
Samudcha Hoonsara
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The opposition Democrat Party is struggling in its effort to beat the country's No 1 party, which has dominated the "market" with its "populism" brand, to which the public has increasingly become addicted, securing the party its leading position.

Alongkorn Pollabutr's suggestion to give the party a major overhaul has been thrown out the window by party heavyweights. The party - which is short of revolutionary ideas to adapt to the harsher political environment and fiercer competition - will have little chance to survive, let alone take on its formidable competition.

The attempt to reform the party is not new. The Democrats discussed the need to "put the party under the scalpel" after its humiliating defeat to a new party under the helm of Thaksin Shinawatra in the January 6, 2001 general election.

At the party caucus to dissect the 2001 election defeat, the boiling frog analogy was raised. If a frog is put in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is put in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death.

The Democrats back then did see the need to react to a significant change in the political winds - the birth of the Thai Rak Thai Party, whose popularity grew daily. But the move toward reform has divided the country's oldest party and the will has weakened. That is why the public has not seen any concrete transformation.

Alongkorn, who has been tasked with mapping out a victory strategy for the next general election, believes that if the party does not change its management, and sticks with the same routine to run the party and win the hearts of voters, Yingluck Shinawatra's job as prime minister is safe. But Alongkorn's call for change has fallen on deaf ears.

Bhichai Rattakul, a former party leader, has also urged the party to be open to ideas suggested by outsiders and the party's elders. Bhichai's plea has gone unheeded.

Why has the party that calls itself an institution failed to read the public mood, failed to evaluate its competition and failed to cultivate political allies? Why has the oldest party failed to reform itself to suit the times?

Could it be that whoever proposes a drastic change just drops the notion for fear of losing power or of being blocked from rising to power?

History shows that since the Sor Por Kor 4-01 land reform scandal, the Democrats have never beaten their staunchest political opponents, whether it's Chart Thai, New Aspiration, Thai Rak Thai, Palang Prachachon or Pheu Thai.

The party has defended itself, saying it's the one that's counted on to run the country during a crisis. For instance, it took power when the country was facing the baht crisis in 1997 and when the country was rocked in the years following the military coup that unseated Thaksin. Although the Democrat Party's Bangkok governor candidate Sukhumbhand Paribatra beat his arch-rival, Pheu Thai candidate Pongsapat Pongcharoen, election figures showed that Thaksin's party has advanced into the Democrats' stronghold with incredible speed.

Ten years have passed since the Democrats lit a fire to boil "the blue frog" in 2001. Will the blue frog slowly be boiled alive?


-- The Nation 2013-04-19

[Thai at Heart]

There is so much to reform in Thailand it seems they can't see the wood for the trees.

Criminal justice review?

Civil service review?

Educational reform?

Land reform?

CORRUPTION?

[Pib]

No need to reform Corruption as it's working just fine with steady growth.

[Tatsujin]

No need to reform Corruption as it's working just fine with steady growth.

Corruption seems to be one of the only consistently increasing industries here now.

[backtonormal]

How can a political party reform that has known links to shadowy powerbrokers and who the electorate view as the political wing of the amart and army. A party when in power that was never invited anywhere, by leading world powers, and major companies of the world would not invest here because of the unstability of being propped up by military coups. Good luck but the next election is already in the bag for Yingluck. You may have a stab at 2020 but hey what the hell just try raising some soldiers onto the street. Forgot you cant even muster a coup now.

[ZhouZhou]

Alongkorn, who has been tasked with mapping out a victory strategy for the next general election, believes that if the party does not change its management, and sticks with the same routine to run the party and win the hearts of voters, Yingluck Shinawatra's job as prime minister is safe. But Alongkorn's call for change has fallen on deaf ears.

true words.

but a reform of the democrats would be also mean to get rid of the old heads and the leaders. but looks like they will never go. rather let things go down than they would give up power.

[Siripon]

How can a political party reform that has known links to shadowy powerbrokers and who the electorate view as the political wing of the amart and army. A party when in power that was never invited anywhere, by leading world powers, and major companies of the world would not invest here because of the unstability of being propped up by military coups. Good luck but the next election is already in the bag for Yingluck. You may have a stab at 2020 but hey what the hell just try raising some soldiers onto the street. Forgot you cant even muster a coup now.

The Democrats obtained nearly 11 and a half million votes for Party List seats in the last election.They are still a force to be reckoned with.

Pheua Thai will continue to shoot themselves in the feet with idiotic policies like the rice mortgage scheme, even red shirt supporters in Ban Pai said Apisit's rice policy was better as it directly benefited farmers whilst only the rich gain from PT's rice mortgage scheme. But it's undeniable the Democrats need to reform, they need to attract the rural as well as urban young, For that they need young, educated folk, passionate about developing their own area, not only Thong Lor\ Oxford and Cambridge graduates.

[Thai at Heart]

How can a political party reform that has known links to shadowy powerbrokers and who the electorate view as the political wing of the amart and army. A party when in power that was never invited anywhere, by leading world powers, and major companies of the world would not invest here because of the unstability of being propped up by military coups. Good luck but the next election is already in the bag for Yingluck. You may have a stab at 2020 but hey what the hell just try raising some soldiers onto the street. Forgot you cant even muster a coup now.

The Democrats obtained nearly 11 and a half million votes for Party List seats in the last election.They are still a force to be reckoned with.

Pheua Thai will continue to shoot themselves in the feet with idiotic policies like the rice mortgage scheme, even red shirt supporters in Ban Pai said Apisit's rice policy was better as it directly benefited farmers whilst only the rich gain from PT's rice mortgage scheme. But it's undeniable the Democrats need to reform, they need to attract the rural as well as urban young, For that they need young, educated folk, passionate about developing their own area, not only Thong Lor\ Oxford and Cambridge graduates.

But they are so contradictory.

They are pro business but the few unions there are love them. The big banks love them. Old business loves them, protected business loves them. The army loves them.

And yet they still got 11mn votes. Weird, because it seems they are loved by and love every body except the common Thai person.

A very schizophrenic party.

[ZhouZhou]

How can a political party reform that has known links to shadowy powerbrokers and who the electorate view as the political wing of the amart and army. A party when in power that was never invited anywhere, by leading world powers, and major companies of the world would not invest here because of the unstability of being propped up by military coups. Good luck but the next election is already in the bag for Yingluck. You may have a stab at 2020 but hey what the hell just try raising some soldiers onto the street. Forgot you cant even muster a coup now.

The Democrats obtained nearly 11 and a half million votes for Party List seats in the last election.They are still a force to be reckoned with.

Pheua Thai will continue to shoot themselves in the feet with idiotic policies like the rice mortgage scheme, even red shirt supporters in Ban Pai said Apisit's rice policy was better as it directly benefited farmers whilst only the rich gain from PT's rice mortgage scheme. But it's undeniable the Democrats need to reform, they need to attract the rural as well as urban young, For that they need young, educated folk, passionate about developing their own area, not only Thong Lor\ Oxford and Cambridge graduates.

But they are so contradictory.

They are pro business but the few unions there are love them. The big banks love them. Old business loves them, protected business loves them. The army loves them.

And yet they still got 11mn votes. Weird, because it seems they are loved by and love every body except the common Thai person.

A very schizophrenic party.

State employees love democrats.

State employees don't love Thaksinomics.

private economy and the big new money rather tend to the thaksin model of politics.

[Thai at Heart]

How can a political party reform that has known links to shadowy powerbrokers and who the electorate view as the political wing of the amart and army. A party when in power that was never invited anywhere, by leading world powers, and major companies of the world would not invest here because of the unstability of being propped up by military coups. Good luck but the next election is already in the bag for Yingluck. You may have a stab at 2020 but hey what the hell just try raising some soldiers onto the street. Forgot you cant even muster a coup now.

The Democrats obtained nearly 11 and a half million votes for Party List seats in the last election.They are still a force to be reckoned with.

Pheua Thai will continue to shoot themselves in the feet with idiotic policies like the rice mortgage scheme, even red shirt supporters in Ban Pai said Apisit's rice policy was better as it directly benefited farmers whilst only the rich gain from PT's rice mortgage scheme. But it's undeniable the Democrats need to reform, they need to attract the rural as well as urban young, For that they need young, educated folk, passionate about developing their own area, not only Thong Lor\ Oxford and Cambridge graduates.

But they are so contradictory.

They are pro business but the few unions there are love them. The big banks love them. Old business loves them, protected business loves them. The army loves them.

And yet they still got 11mn votes. Weird, because it seems they are loved by and love every body except the common Thai person.

A very schizophrenic party.

State employees love democrats.

State employees don't love Thaksinomics.

private economy and the big new money rather tend to the thaksin model of politics.

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[metisdead]

A profanity post has been removed as well as a reply.

[moe666]

Embrace the aspirations of the poor aand propose real land reform with a actual agenda to accomplish this. PTP talks a good game but doesn't deliver on what really matters

[ballpoint]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then. Edited April 19, 2013 by ballpoint

[Thai at Heart]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then.

Yeah, that would be rubber, palm oil and packaged fruit dominated. You think they are supported in the south because the poor love them? What a sterling job the dems have done over 70 years.

They are funded by these industries to deliver a stable and safe place to grow stuff. Ditto sugar and rice. Rubber is migrating, so those companies have to deal with ptp in isaan.

One day the poor of the south will turn on the dems.

[ZhouZhou]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then.

their single party block vote is a result of the brain wash in the 90's. last century. they are loyal to Chuan Leekpai because he is a local southerner and that propaganda image how clean he was it still works in the south because he is a local.

that will fad away sooner or later.

to TaH

that left vs. right thinking doesn't work in Thailand.

but it is the old money/ closed market / restricted market with state concession and state contracts

and state employed bureaucrats

vs.

new money/new market/ new rich. and the little guys with little access to state employed bureaucracy but they got micro credits given them by the Thacsinomics and proud with the OTOP idea.

if you wanna fight corruption - guess where you have to start.

[Thai at Heart]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then.

their single party block vote is a result of the brain wash in the 90's. last century. they are loyal to Chuan Leekpai because he is a local southerner and that propaganda image how clean he was it still works in the south because he is a local.

that will fad away sooner or later.

to TaH

that left vs. right thinking doesn't work in Thailand.

but it is the old money/ closed market / restricted market with state concession and state contracts

and state employed bureaucrats

vs.

new money/new market/ new rich. and the little guys with little access to state employed bureaucracy but they got micro credits given them by the Thacsinomics and proud with the OTOP idea.

if you wanna fight corruption - guess where you have to start.

But they criticise thaksin along these lines, and the reality is, that economic schools of thought lend themselves to these separations.

I still don't know what abhisit fundamentally stands for after all these years.

[ballpoint]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then.

their single party block vote is a result of the brain wash in the 90's. last century. they are loyal to Chuan Leekpai because he is a local southerner and that propaganda image how clean he was it still works in the south because he is a local.

that will fad away sooner or later.

to TaH

that left vs. right thinking doesn't work in Thailand.

but it is the old money/ closed market / restricted market with state concession and state contracts

and state employed bureaucrats

vs.

new money/new market/ new rich. and the little guys with little access to state employed bureaucracy but they got micro credits given them by the Thacsinomics and proud with the OTOP idea.

if you wanna fight corruption - guess where you have to start.

It's almost amusing to see people rant on about the divide between the poor and who they support and the "rich" and who they support, while dismissing the gaping regional divide as being an anomaly, that will "fade away". The point I was making in my first post was it's not as simplistic as that, and if you are going to go down that route you'll find that it works both ways. Thai poltics is fiercely local. The vast majority of rural constituencies are consistently held by the same candidate, or a family member or other proxy. The PTP's dominance of the north and northeast is largely due to the TRT buying out the parties that traditionally dominated these regions, particularly the NAP and CTP, and retaining their structure and personnel as factions within their own. This "loyalty" has been achieved partly by keeping educational standards low, and partly by handouts and trapping the residents in a subsistence way of life, where any extra money they may manage to get is spent on paying off debt, or getting further into it. A poorly educated subsistence farmer, showing the trappings of middle class life by making monthly payments on a truck and relying on next year's subsidy to continue those payments, is still a poorly educated subsistence farmer. What would also be amusing, if it wasn't so sad, is the same people referred to in my first sentence, while stressing the majority of the rural poor support the PTP, and its legacy parties and factions, fail to take the next step and ask why there are still so many rural poor to support this dynasty,despite them being in power for the majority of the past 22 years, and just how this dynasty ensures that there are so many rural poor to support it?

[Dap]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then.

their single party block vote is a result of the brain wash in the 90's. last century. they are loyal to Chuan Leekpai because he is a local southerner and that propaganda image how clean he was it still works in the south because he is a local.

that will fad away sooner or later.

to TaH

that left vs. right thinking doesn't work in Thailand.

but it is the old money/ closed market / restricted market with state concession and state contracts

and state employed bureaucrats

vs.

new money/new market/ new rich. and the little guys with little access to state employed bureaucracy but they got micro credits given them by the Thacsinomics and proud with the OTOP idea.

if you wanna fight corruption - guess where you have to start.

Corruption is all pervasive. Please tell me ZZ, where would you start?

[Thai at Heart]

Which private economy is that?

Agriculture, banking, heavy industry, trucking, all love the dems. The list goes on and on. Why? Because the dems NEVER favour the little guy versus business.

New money loves ptp because they provide access to old closed markets. And yet state employees love the dems, but the accusation is that ptp is left wing and the dems right.

Seems the dems make friends with anyone for a vote except the biggest block which is the poor.

Really? So there are no poor in the south, which is overwhelmingly Democrat? Imagine what they could do if they ran the whole country then.

their single party block vote is a result of the brain wash in the 90's. last century. they are loyal to Chuan Leekpai because he is a local southerner and that propaganda image how clean he was it still works in the south because he is a local.

that will fad away sooner or later.

to TaH

that left vs. right thinking doesn't work in Thailand.

but it is the old money/ closed market / restricted market with state concession and state contracts

and state employed bureaucrats

vs.

new money/new market/ new rich. and the little guys with little access to state employed bureaucracy but they got micro credits given them by the Thacsinomics and proud with the OTOP idea.

if you wanna fight corruption - guess where you have to start.

It's almost amusing to see people rant on about the divide between the poor and who they support and the "rich" and who they support, while dismissing the gaping regional divide as being an anomaly, that will "fade away". The point I was making in my first post was it's not as simplistic as that, and if you are going to go down that route you'll find that it works both ways. Thai poltics is fiercely local. The vast majority of rural constituencies are consistently held by the same candidate, or a family member or other proxy. The PTP's dominance of the north and northeast is largely due to the TRT buying out the parties that traditionally dominated these regions, particularly the NAP and CTP, and retaining their structure and personnel as factions within their own. This "loyalty" has been achieved partly by keeping educational standards low, and partly by handouts and trapping the residents in a subsistence way of life, where any extra money they may manage to get is spent on paying off debt, or getting further into it. A poorly educated subsistence farmer, showing the trappings of middle class life by making monthly payments on a truck and relying on next year's subsidy to continue those payments, is still a poorly educated subsistence farmer. What would also be amusing, if it wasn't so sad, is the same people referred to in my first sentence, while stressing the majority of the rural poor support the PTP, and its legacy parties and factions, fail to take the next step and ask why there are still so many rural poor to support this dynasty,despite them being in power for the majority of the past 22 years, and just how this dynasty ensures that there are so many rural poor to support it?

Whilst the genuine rural poor are one issue, it certainly isn't lost on me that the level of spending my town in isaan on roads, schools and just about everything else, dried up completely under the dems and now the flow has returned.

That's politics.