Abhisit Slams Thai Government On Amnesty Move

[ZhouZhou]

Now that we are comparing apples and oranges again, I must admit that the case against the Democrat party where allegedly they had used too small election posters (because their supplier was forced to include VAT in the bill so some costs needed to be recovered) should have seen them disbanded. Asking for a detailed bill including VAT as item is definitively un-Thai.

Now back to the OP of the Pheu Thai-led government trying to push for an unclear amnesty bill, a bill which even has the blessing of the coup leader who's party is part of the government coalition.

if a bill pass the parliament it is democratic. period.

[whybother]

Now that we are comparing apples and oranges again, I must admit that the case against the Democrat party where allegedly they had used too small election posters (because their supplier was forced to include VAT in the bill so some costs needed to be recovered) should have seen them disbanded. Asking for a detailed bill including VAT as item is definitively un-Thai.

Now back to the OP of the Pheu Thai-led government trying to push for an unclear amnesty bill, a bill which even has the blessing of the coup leader who's party is part of the government coalition.

if a bill pass the parliament it is democratic. period.

And in a democracy, the opposition are allowed to speak out against it. Do you have a problem with that?

[ZhouZhou]

Consequence of PTV 24/7 hate speech broadcasting with every red-shirt now 'knowing' that Abhisit said "kill me some", is that the Pheu Thai-led government with a dozen UDD leaders as party list MPs can be seen as instrumental in blocking the opposition leader. Very democratically of course.

Abhisit brought all this by himself

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind.

[Thai at Heart]

Can Thai newspapers find a new verb instead of "slam". I feel like I'm reading a sixth grade current events essay every week.

I love their use of the world "mull" all the time.

It suggests they all sit down and actually think their actions through with deep consideration.

Now their is a gross misuse of language.

[Thai at Heart]

Can Thai newspapers find a new verb instead of "slam". I feel like I'm reading a sixth grade current events essay every week.

I love their use of the world "mull" all the time.

It suggests they all sit down and actually think their actions through with deep consideration.

Now their is a gross misuse of language.

[Thai at Heart]

Can Thai newspapers find a new verb instead of "slam". I feel like I'm reading a sixth grade current events essay every week.

I love their use of the world "mull" all the time.

It suggests they all sit down and actually think their actions through with deep consideration.

Now their is a gross misuse of language.

[wolf5370]

Not the Democrats refusal to take part in the "flash election" in order to void it then? Not the Courts decision to ban the Thai rak Thai party members but allow the Democrats to continue being a party because they conveniently felt to dissolve them would would create a difficult political void......seems a little too well scripted when you assess the actions that followed

Wasn't saying Dems are whiter than white either! Two (or more) wrongs do not a right make (as Mumma used to say). I was just suggesting that winning election after election does not necessarily make it democratic as this is exactly what most despots do. The "Flash" election was against the rule as it was called too short - I did not agree with the Dems pulling out either.

There is much wrong with democracy everywhere, and much wrong with it here in particular (and specifically) - the continual return to "Yellows invaded the airport", "Reds burned Bangkok" - "Black shirts were controlled by the [insert whatever best suits you here]" is nothing but political Ping-Pong to avoid the underlying issues that democracy here has failed wholesale - people are supposed to vote for the party that suits their needs best and that they trust to support and improve their, and their family's, lot. Elections should be fair and impartial - as should the environment leading up to the election - not propaganda and not riots, false accusations, bomb threats (fake or otherwise), forced voting, paid voting, rumour and lies, attacking/blockading/filibustering/drowning out/stalking/threatening/libelling political candidates.

[rubl]

p>Abhisit brought it all against himself, like Thaksin I guess?

BTW the 'amnesty bill' is not legal yet. It's a proposal for a bill and probably not even in a form which lawyers would consider a bill. As such protesting in and outside parliament about it is perfectly democratic. Only trying to stop people from voicing their opinion can be called undemocratic.

[wolf5370]

Consequence of PTV 24/7 hate speech broadcasting with every red-shirt now 'knowing' that Abhisit said "kill me some", is that the Pheu Thai-led government with a dozen UDD leaders as party list MPs can be seen as instrumental in blocking the opposition leader. Very democratically of course.

Abhisit brought all this by himself

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind.

Maybe just as valid:

"A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it - He that injures another hates him in proportion to the injury he has done him; and, strange to tell, in proportion to the innocence of the oppressed. The debtor cannot bear the sight of his creditor; nor the knave, of him whom he has injured." [Proverbs 26"28]

[473geo]

Not the Democrats refusal to take part in the "flash election" in order to void it then? Not the Courts decision to ban the Thai rak Thai party members but allow the Democrats to continue being a party because they conveniently felt to dissolve them would would create a difficult political void......seems a little too well scripted when you assess the actions that followed

Wasn't saying Dems are whiter than white either! Two (or more) wrongs do not a right make (as Mumma used to say). I was just suggesting that winning election after election does not necessarily make it democratic as this is exactly what most despots do. The "Flash" election was against the rule as it was called too short - I did not agree with the Dems pulling out either.

There is much wrong with democracy everywhere, and much wrong with it here in particular (and specifically) - the continual return to "Yellows invaded the airport", "Reds burned Bangkok" - "Black shirts were controlled by the [insert whatever best suits you here]" is nothing but political Ping-Pong to avoid the underlying issues that democracy here has failed wholesale - people are supposed to vote for the party that suits their needs best and that they trust to support and improve their, and their family's, lot. Elections should be fair and impartial - as should the environment leading up to the election - not propaganda and not riots, false accusations, bomb threats (fake or otherwise), forced voting, paid voting, rumour and lies, attacking/blockading/filibustering/drowning out/stalking/threatening/libelling political candidates.

Of course two wrongs do not make a right, but not giving a full account is somewhat dishonest, I just redressed the balance you failed to achieve..........as for democracy, this is what I like about Thailand, no bullshit, money equates to power, just the the same as all the countries in the globe.

[wolf5370]

Not the Democrats refusal to take part in the "flash election" in order to void it then? Not the Courts decision to ban the Thai rak Thai party members but allow the Democrats to continue being a party because they conveniently felt to dissolve them would would create a difficult political void......seems a little too well scripted when you assess the actions that followed

Wasn't saying Dems are whiter than white either! Two (or more) wrongs do not a right make (as Mumma used to say). I was just suggesting that winning election after election does not necessarily make it democratic as this is exactly what most despots do. The "Flash" election was against the rule as it was called too short - I did not agree with the Dems pulling out either.

There is much wrong with democracy everywhere, and much wrong with it here in particular (and specifically) - the continual return to "Yellows invaded the airport", "Reds burned Bangkok" - "Black shirts were controlled by the [insert whatever best suits you here]" is nothing but political Ping-Pong to avoid the underlying issues that democracy here has failed wholesale - people are supposed to vote for the party that suits their needs best and that they trust to support and improve their, and their family's, lot. Elections should be fair and impartial - as should the environment leading up to the election - not propaganda and not riots, false accusations, bomb threats (fake or otherwise), forced voting, paid voting, rumour and lies, attacking/blockading/filibustering/drowning out/stalking/threatening/libelling political candidates.

Of course two wrongs do not make a right, but not giving a full account is somewhat dishonest, I just redressed the balance you failed to achieve..........as for democracy, this is what I like about Thailand, no bullshit, money equates to power, just the the same as all the countries in the globe.

Fair enough - wasn't intended to be one sided, was more just related to the post, but get your point

[ZhouZhou]

Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August.

Abhisit threatens and attacks Parliamentarian democracy, again.

Where is the threat?

"soft spoken" Abhisit use the same weasel words and arguments that are used to justify coups.

The language of anti democrats and enemies of parliamentarian democracy.

[rixalex]

if a bill pass the parliament it is democratic. period.

Really? And that is all there is to it? Are you sure about that?

So what about if the bill was to take away women's rights to vote? Or if the bill was to do away with elections altogether? Or if the bill was to make all politicians immune from criminal prosecution?

[Melyn]

Preventing political rallies through thuggery is not democracy

A finance minister seeking the removal of an independent national bank governor is not democracy

Adding 2.2T baht to the national debt outside of parliamentary debate is not democracy

A criminal governing a country through his sister from another territory is not democracy

Refusing to follow the Constitution Court is not democracy

Phua Thai is not democracy

[Pi Sek]

Do not feed the troll.

[AleG]

Do not feed the troll.

It's quite telling that's all that there's left to defend Thaksin and his government.

[gl555]

Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August.

Abhisit threatens and attacks Parliamentarian democracy, again.

Where is the threat?

"soft spoken" Abhisit use the same weasel words and arguments that are used to justify coups.

The language of anti democrats and enemies of parliamentarian democracy.

'Logical' Zhou Zhou using the same moronic words and arguments that are used to justify idiot trolling

The language of Red apologists and the supporters of corrupt and inept politicians.

[rubl]

So, let's ones more try to return to the topic of Abhisit slamming the government on the Amnesty Move.

"Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August."

Remember the topic awhile ago with the Speaker of the House saying to have a very hort session to finish the 'amendment proposal' debat, if necessary only for five minutes to vote on when to do the second reading? So, now we have a very controversial new bill proposal which has gotten top priority because our criminal fugitive has ordered his government to get going with it because he's getting impatient to return to Thailand in triumph. I also feel sorry for our Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who has just handed in his very own amnesty bill which he has written all by himself while doing all these 90-day odd jobs and trying to report on the 'mission accomplished'.

[wolf5370]

Do not feed the troll.

It's quite telling that's all that there's left to defend Thaksin and his government.

May be there is good investment in under bridge repairs?

[wolf5370]

So, let's ones more try to return to the topic of Abhisit slamming the government on the Amnesty Move.

"Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August."

Remember the topic awhile ago with the Speaker of the House saying to have a very hort session to finish the 'amendment proposal' debat, if necessary only for five minutes to vote on when to do the second reading? So, now we have a very controversial new bill proposal which has gotten top priority because our criminal fugitive has ordered his government to get going with it because he's getting impatient to return to Thailand in triumph. I also feel sorry for our Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who has just handed in his very own amnesty bill which he has written all by himself while doing all these 90-day odd jobs and trying to report on the 'mission accomplished'.

Do they have filibustering here in Thailand - one would think this bill may be a likely candidate

[Hermeric]

Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August.

Abhisit threatens and attacks Parliamentarian democracy, again.

Zhou Zhou: I don't know what planet you are on. Certainly not the same as the majority of Thai Visa users. Now answer this question honestly: Where do you stand on the political spectrum? Would you have supported Hitler or Churchill? What is interesting to me is that you are so predictable and you have not answered previus points I have made. There is nothing in what Abhisit has said that could lead to the point you make. The job of an opposition leader is to point out the pitfalls and errors in any administration's actions. This is surely what Parliamentary democracy is about. Unike Thaksin who would brook no opposition which is not what Parliamentary democracy is about. What you say in yur other post is absolutely off the wall and incorrect. Come on ZhouZhou, get real and start to understand, not only the nature of democracy but also the nature of fascism.!

Get Real????? Abhisit is Churchill and Taksin is Hitler I suppose in your "real" world?

Abhisit and the Democrats have not won one national election in over 20 years? Taksin did. Massively. And would still do it if allowed to come back to Thailand. That's the reality.

And i don t that like that reality more than you do. But until the Democrats or another party offer something better...

Edited April 20, 2013 by Hermeric

[wolf5370]

Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August.

Abhisit threatens and attacks Parliamentarian democracy, again.

Zhou Zhou: I don't know what planet you are on. Certainly not the same as the majority of Thai Visa users. Now answer this question honestly: Where do you stand on the political spectrum? Would you have supported Hitler or Churchill? What is interesting to me is that you are so predictable and you have not answered previus points I have made. There is nothing in what Abhisit has said that could lead to the point you make. The job of an opposition leader is to point out the pitfalls and errors in any administration's actions. This is surely what Parliamentary democracy is about. Unike Thaksin who would brook no opposition which is not what Parliamentary democracy is about. What you say in yur other post is absolutely off the wall and incorrect. Come on ZhouZhou, get real and start to understand, not only the nature of democracy but also the nature of fascism.!

Get Real????? Abhisit is Churchill and Taksin is Hitler I suppose in your "real" world?

Abhisit and the Democrats have not won one national election in over 20 years? Taksin did. Massively. And would still do it if allowed to come back to Thailand. That's the reality.

That is true, but not to say that his government was not legitimate - it was. I am worried that it seems to many the be-all-and-end-all of democracy is winning an election - this hinges on the fairness of the election and the process itself - Robert Mugabe won landslide elections, this does not make Zimbabwe a model democracy. And no, I am not comparing Thailand to Zimbabwe or anyone to Mugabe - just challenging the concept that the winning of an election concludes legitimacy In its own right and includes every piece of legislature that government concocts to succeed without parliamentary/political/public exchange or examination - democracy is about challenging, questioning, debating and it seems to be exactly what Abhisit is doing in this case - his job is thusly defined I would suggest.

//Edit: remove extra word for grammar

Edited April 20, 2013 by wolf5370

[whybother]

Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August.

Abhisit threatens and attacks Parliamentarian democracy, again.

Where is the threat?

"soft spoken" Abhisit use the same weasel words and arguments that are used to justify coups.

The language of anti democrats and enemies of parliamentarian democracy.

So basically, the threat is in your own mind.

[ZhouZhou]

So, let's ones more try to return to the topic of Abhisit slamming the government on the Amnesty Move.

"Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August."

Remember the topic awhile ago with the Speaker of the House saying to have a very hort session to finish the 'amendment proposal' debat, if necessary only for five minutes to vote on when to do the second reading? So, now we have a very controversial new bill proposal which has gotten top priority because our criminal fugitive has ordered his government to get going with it because he's getting impatient to return to Thailand in triumph. I also feel sorry for our Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who has just handed in his very own amnesty bill which he has written all by himself while doing all these 90-day odd jobs and trying to report on the 'mission accomplished'.

Do they have filibustering here in Thailand - one would think this bill may be a likely candidate

no. neither have Abhisit and Democrats some arguments in the debate.

in the past they just made loud noise, zieg heil salutes and disturbing the session. very kindergarten, very inept.

[chainarong]

"...Forgiveness and amnesty are different issues. A person is forgiven when he admits his mistakes or wrongdoing. Amnesty is an announcement that a particular activity is not an offence."

Well said. This in no way is a threat to democracy Zhou

Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, was referring to a decision by the Lower House on Thursday to designate the bill a top priority for debate when Parliament reconvenes in August.

Abhisit threatens and attacks Parliamentarian democracy, again.

Frogxxxx.

Democracy is not about what Abhisit thinks what is moral good and what is moral bad.

democracy is having a parliament with members elected by the people. and that parliament will pass laws. its members are called lawmakers for a reason. to pass laws they will need a majority. that is democracy.

but Abhisit seems not to accept that democratic decision process.

You cannot give Amnesty where a crime has been committed and don't tell me there hasn't been any committed , i think you are actually Thaksin in disguise Zhou Zhou.

[ZhouZhou]

You cannot give Amnesty where a crime has been committed and don't tell me there hasn't been any committed , i think you are actually Thaksin in disguise Zhou Zhou.

no. i am not Thaksin. what you think is wrong.

[rubl]

No arguments? Do I really need to search and present them here? It's a bit more than just countering Pheu Thai's "believe us, it's good for the people".

BTW the silly salutes were a response to a Speaker of the House who suddenly went death after switching of a microphone of an opposition speaker. Now that's asking for problems.

[rubl]

I'm slightly disappointed that k. Thaksin didn't find the time to join us here in this high-level discussion. I'm afraid double-Z is not a real valuable substitute. IMHO of course.

[virtualtraveller]

You can never have enough cynicism when dealing with Peua Thai. Law makers can legislate away, but anything self serving should expect to be resisted. They may have been vested by the public to serve the country as the majority group in parliament but despite that, laws that are cynical and not likely to achieve any benefit other than for the law makers and their cronies will be resisted at every step, from the press, the opposition, the streets, other pressure groups, that's how democracy works, everyone gets involved, there are watchdogs, even for those who can sail things through parliament.

[ZhouZhou]

No arguments? Do I really need to search and present them here? It's a bit more than just countering Pheu Thai's "believe us, it's good for the people".

BTW the silly salutes were a response to a Speaker of the House who suddenly went death after switching of a microphone of an opposition speaker. Now that's asking for problems.

it was just before songkran. noise and walking out. substance - zero.

every speaker has his allocated speak time in parliament. they know beforehand how many time to got and can not talk endless . that is a totally normal procedure.