Should We Learn The Language?

[StreetCowboy]

Is it really possible for a physician to not speak English? Aren't all the medications written in English?

Is it really possible for a physician to not speak English? Absolutely.

Aren't all the medications written in English? If you mean are the brand names written in English? Generally. If you mean is all the information about them written exclusively in English? No.

But being able to read English reasonably well does not mean you can speak it at a commensurate level or even close to it.

Yerdedonthairpal

EDIT: italics added to avoid misattribution

Edited April 23, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[thaicbr]

The comment you make about Thais being unable to understand Thai when spoken by foreigners is another well worn cliche that novices often come up with.The reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are probably speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

Fact.

What is a fact? You have NO idea about the circumstances. So impossible to state "fact"

Also part of the point I was trying to get over was for some Thais the language has to be spoken exactly as they speak it themselves. So yes I concur about speaking inaccuracy. With English it's not such a problem and most native or near native speakers will try to understand what is said by others. My experience is that ability is lacking in many Thais.

I do wonder why there are SO many Fluent Chinese speaking foreigners compared to fluent Thai speakers. Maybe the open pride the Chinese have when foreigners speak Chinese. You see it on Chinese TV. When do you see it here???

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[SteeleJoe]

The comment you make about Thais being unable to understand Thai when spoken by foreigners is another well worn cliche that novices often come up with.The reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are probably speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

Fact.

What is a fact? You have NO idea about the circumstances. So impossible to state "fact"...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Clearly not impossible to state it - I already did.

However, I didn't realize it would be taken so literally. It was meant as an emphatic expression of my absolute certainty that it's correct despite anyone being able to actually prove it...

I am certain it's a well worn cliche that novices often come up with because I've heard it countless times from people over the last 3 decades but never from anyone who could speak Thai well.

I am certain that the reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are PROBABLY speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

So that's why I made my absolutist comment (which I don't do often) but I'll modify for you:

I am absolutely convinced beyond any doubt based on decades of experience and much thought that the post in question is 100% correct.

Howzat?

Edited April 23, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[rct99q]

Anyone here longer than a Holiday toursit should attempt and begin to learn Central Bangkok Thai.

Most people speak and understand that dialect. The elders in the coutryside often have limited ability to speak BKK Thai, but just about all Thai TV is in Central Bangkok Thai. Most Thails from 0 - 50 something speak BKK Thai as well as the regional dialects.

Don't worry about the regional dialects. Maybe learn a few words here and there until you has been in that area for a while and are good at Central Bangkok Thai.

Thai is very "Tonal" similar to singing. The wrong Tones can have a totally different meaning.

I found it a good source to view and listen to some popular thai Kareoke Songs with Thai Subtitle words in ABC's.

Most Thai words are not long. It is just a matter of proper speaking grammer to get it right.

Learn a few phrases.

In our own Countries, we expect foreigners to at least make an attempt to speak some of our own language.

Thailand people feel no differantly than we do about foreigners trying to communicate in the Country's language.

Even if you haev a girlfriend, wife, secretary etc., They will not always be with you, and get tired if you consistantly expect them to translate for you.

But don't try to spek thai unless you are speaking it with the proper tones.

Sorry have to disagree with the don't try to speak Thai unless you are speaking it with the proper tones. part of language is listening to others and repeating. We start as youngsters listening to our parents. Mommy & Daddy are words as parents we say over and over. And what are the first words many babies say....! It ain't "supposedly"

i encourage people to speak away...and to listen. many Thais will correct your pronunciation and the more you practice in a real setting the easier (speak with some confidence) it becomes.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Most people around the world can understand a person mispronouncing their first language.

When you speak heavily accented central Thai to a Thai whose first language is central Thai, they will understand you.

When you speak heavily accented central Thai to a Issan farmer whose first language is village Lao, they won't have a clue what you said.

This is also true for many other languages.

Edited April 23, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaicbr]

The comment you make about Thais being unable to understand Thai when spoken by foreigners is another well worn cliche that novices often come up with.The reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are probably speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

Fact.

What is a fact? You have NO idea about the circumstances. So impossible to state "fact"...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Clearly not impossible to state it - I already did.

However, I didn't realize it would be taken so literally. It was meant as an emphatic expression of my absolute certainty that it's correct despite anyone being able to actually prove it...

I am certain it's a well worn cliche that novices often come up with because I've heard it countless times from people over the last 3 decades but never from anyone who could speak Thai well.

I am certain that the reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are PROBABLY speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

So that's why I made my absolutist comment (which I don't do often) but I'll modify for you:

I am absolutely convinced beyond any doubt based on decades of experience and much thought that the post in question is 100% correct.

Howzat?

Good enough. So we are both correct

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[rgs2001uk]

The comment you make about Thais being unable to understand Thai when spoken by foreigners is another well worn cliche that novices often come up with.The reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are probably speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

Fact.

What is a fact? You have NO idea about the circumstances. So impossible to state "fact"...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Clearly not impossible to state it - I already did.

However, I didn't realize it would be taken so literally. It was meant as an emphatic expression of my absolute certainty that it's correct despite anyone being able to actually prove it...

I am certain it's a well worn cliche that novices often come up with because I've heard it countless times from people over the last 3 decades but never from anyone who could speak Thai well.

I am certain that the reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are PROBABLY speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

So that's why I made my absolutist comment (which I don't do often) but I'll modify for you:

I am absolutely convinced beyond any doubt based on decades of experience and much thought that the post in question is 100% correct.

Howzat?

I am certain that the reality is that if Thais don't understand what you

are saying you are PROBABLY speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

I had a strange experience a couple of years ago.

Went into a mom n pop store, the ones with the old Chinese ladies that sell everything, I spoke to mama who looked right through me, didnt understand a word.

The young girl sat right beside her understood perfectly what I wanted, then repeated word for word what I had just asked for.

I am sure there are times when some of the older Thais just dont expect farangs to be speaking Thai.

Can you shed any light on this phenomenon, has it ever happened to you?

Any insight would be appreciated.

[SteeleJoe]

So yes I concur about speaking inaccuracy. With English it's not such a problem and most native or near native speakers will try to understand what is said by others. My experience is that ability is lacking in many Thais.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

So you objected to my post but you do concur. OK.

Here's something that for people whose native language isn't a tonal one is really hard to grasp except in the abstract: if all your life you have known language to be something in which a change of tone conveys a completely different meaning and indeed makes it a different word, when someone says a word in the wrong way it sometimes is literally unrecognizable or so out of context that it is completely baffling. It simply never occurs to many Thais to stop and think what word you might have meant and indeed they often would be unable to if they tried.

No matter how you pronounce "ant" in English, it is still recognizable as the word for a tiny creature we all know. Not so in Thai.

I've seen Thai people not recognize "Kloster" (back in the day) and even "Pepsi" because it was said in a completely unfamiliar way. Try telling a taxi driver you want to go to "Central" as opposed to "cenTRUN"...

Edited April 23, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[AnotherOneAmerican]

The comment you make about Thais being unable to understand Thai when spoken by foreigners is another well worn cliche that novices often come up with.The reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are probably speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

Fact.

What is a fact? You have NO idea about the circumstances. So impossible to state "fact"...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Clearly not impossible to state it - I already did.

However, I didn't realize it would be taken so literally. It was meant as an emphatic expression of my absolute certainty that it's correct despite anyone being able to actually prove it...

I am certain it's a well worn cliche that novices often come up with because I've heard it countless times from people over the last 3 decades but never from anyone who could speak Thai well.

I am certain that the reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are PROBABLY speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

So that's why I made my absolutist comment (which I don't do often) but I'll modify for you:

I am absolutely convinced beyond any doubt based on decades of experience and much thought that the post in question is 100% correct.

Howzat?

I am certain that the reality is that if Thais don't understand what you

are saying you are PROBABLY speaking unclearly and inaccurately.

I had a strange experience a couple of years ago.

Went into a mom n pop store, the ones with the old Chinese ladies that sell everything, I spoke to mama who looked right through me, didnt understand a word.

The young girl sat right beside her understood perfectly what I wanted, then repeated word for word what I had just asked for.

I am sure there are times when some of the older Thais just dont expect farangs to be speaking Thai.

Can you shed any light on this phenomenon, has it ever happened to you?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Did you read my post (#126)?

Mom's first language was some rural village speak (or Mandarin), not central Thai.

Young girls first language was central Thai.

Edited April 23, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[thaicbr]

So yes I concur about speaking inaccuracy. With English it's not such a problem and most native or near native speakers will try to understand what is said by others. My experience is that ability is lacking in many Thais.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

So you objected to my post but you do concur. OK.

Here's something that people whose native language isn't a tonal one is really hard to grasp except in the abstract: if all your life you have known language to be something in which a change of tone conveys a completely different meaning and indeed makes it a different word, when someone says a word in the wrong way it sometimes is literally I recognizable or so out of context that it is completely baffling. It simply never occurs to many Thais to stop and think what word you might have meant and indeed they often would be unable to if they tried.

No matter how you pronounce "ant" in English, it is still recognizable as the word for a tiny creature we all know. Not so in Thai.

I've seen Thai people not recognize "Kloster" (back in the day) and even "Pepsi" because it was said in a completely unfamiliar way. Try telling a taxi driver you want to go to "Central" as opposed to "cenTRUN"...

It would seem you also concur with some of what I said. Today is a good day

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[SteeleJoe]

I had a strange experience a couple of years ago.

well worn cliche that novices often come up with.The reality is that if Thais don't understand what you are saying you are probably speaking unclearly and inaccurately.Went into a mom n pop store, the ones with the old Chinese ladies that sell everything, I spoke to mama who looked right through me, didnt understand a word.

The young girl sat right beside her understood perfectly what I wanted, then repeated word for word what I had just asked for.

I am sure there are times when some of the older Thais just dont expect farangs to be speaking Thai.

Can you shed any light on this phenomenon, has it ever happened to you?

Any insight would be appreciated.

It has happened to me once that I vaguely recall (This at a point where when I speak on the phone I am mistaken for a Thai) and I've heard a lot of people say it happened to them (some of whom can speak Thai well enough - though so e of whom may have just spoke Thai too poorly to understand easily).

No insight other than there is a phenomenon regarding brain function (that I am not qualified to explain well but will try to) wherein we literally will not recognize something that we don't believe exists: it explains why you can be looking for something and not see it even when it's right in front of you...

So you answered the question already: some of the older Thais just dont expect farangs to be speaking Thai and thus their brain doesn't register it for a moment or more...

[phuturatica]

I tried to learn Thai and I can speak it quite basic and get from A to B - However I am definitely not fluent...

Of course it would be easier to live in a foreign country and be able to speak the same language fluently. This would apply to any country I'm sure.

However I don't feel the need to. I'm a straight woman for starters so I'm not going to end up with a lo-so Thai woman or university educated woman or whatever and my boyfriend is from England.

So far, all the Thai people I know can speak English enough fine for me to be able to converse with them, so learning Thai is not a necessity for me.

However I think if you were married to a Thai person or with one, then you should make the effort. At the end of the day - the other person is making the effort to talk English with you.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

However I don't feel the need to. I'm a straight woman for starters so I'm not going to end up with a lo-so Thai woman or university educated woman or whatever and my boyfriend is from England.

So far, all the Thai people I know can speak English enough fine for me to be able to converse with them, so learning Thai is not a necessity for me.

However I think if you were married to a Thai person or with one, then you should make the effort. At the end of the day - the other person is making the effort to talk English with you.

So if you were married to a Thai person who's first language was village Issan, do you think you should learn village Issan or central Thai?

If both English and central Thai were not their first languages (or even their second), do you think you should learn another language to share with them?

If so, why not both pick a completely new language to learn together (I would suggest mandarin).

Edited April 23, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[CharlieH]

As with so many things in thailand location is everything, living in heavily used tourist areas like phuket Pattaya Bangkok etc most of the time you wont need it as English is widely understood.

Not the same obviously if you live in a smaller town or even a village where speaking atleast the basics and numbers or directions etc is a definate advantage. If you live here, I think its a good idea to know some basics, and beneficial.

If nothing else you know when something is wrong or they are talking about you, often just a look can rectify that issue,

What I have always wondered is why Thai assume you speak English? Jusr because you are not Thai they seem to automatically assume you are or you can speak English? why is that, you could be swiss, german , norwegian or any number of nationalities and English could be as foriegn to you as Thai, just wondered.

Edited April 23, 2013 by CharlieH

[Naam]

Neeranam

I really can't understand your need to show your financial standing in
so many posts. It certainly doesn't impress me but might those in the
Banking forum.

Your gardener is a human being and we all possess
different qualities. Wouldn't you like to talk to him about how you want
the rose bed around your summer house, or your maze hedge height? Or
ask him about his family?

What you're really saying is that you
are better educated, financially better off and better than these pesky
Siamese. Why on earth should someone so elevated lower themselves to
learning their language, as they have nothing to say.

This divide that you widen with your refusal or inability to learn Thai is just going to get wider and wider.

Why
not simply say what you mean - that you/we shouldn't learn Thai as we
are above them educationally, financially and culturally.

what you can understand or not does not concern me!

but putting words into my mouth based on assumptions does concern me!

my gardener is indeed a human being and i talk to him every day

using (surprise!) English.

i don't have to ask him about his family, as he and his family are
living in our staff house (his wife is our "head maid"). his two year
old son, living with us too, is my designated "grand-godson" whom i just
started teaching the first German words. for what it's worth, they are

treated by us like family and that since nearly seven years.

and now step down from your arrogant pedestal, go to a dark corner,

repent and be ashamed of your wild and derogatory assumptions.

[StreetCowboy]

However I don't feel the need to. I'm a straight woman for starters so I'm not going to end up with a lo-so Thai woman or university educated woman or whatever and my boyfriend is from England.

So far, all the Thai people I know can speak English enough fine for me to be able to converse with them, so learning Thai is not a necessity for me.

However I think if you were married to a Thai person or with one, then you should make the effort. At the end of the day - the other person is making the effort to talk English with you.

So if you were married to a Thai person who's first language was village Issan, do you think you should learn village Issan or central Thai?

If both English and central Thai were not their first languages (or even their second), do you think you should learn another language to share with them?

If so, why not both pick a completely new language to learn together (I would suggest mandarin).

It makes sense to learn a language that allows you to communicate with your neighbours. Personally, I would recommend a national language, like English, or Thai, or Putonghua, or whatever your neighbours understand, rather than some backwoods dialect or dying language like Gaelic. You're always going to sound like a foreigner, no matter what language you learn, but you might as well make yourself understandable to as wide an audience as possible.

SC

[Radar501]

I have experienced so many positives about studying the Thai language. Some have been covered at length in this thread already.

For me, an important reason for studying this beautiful language is to keep my ageing brain alert and functioning.

There has been extensive research conducted proving that learning a new skill, such as a foreign language, delays the onset of dementia type illnesses.

[Johnniey]

Those who can't speak Thai are not going to reply to this thread, apart from Naam.

Those who can ARE and are going to say of course we should.

I've lived here for 25 years so obviously can. It took a lot of hard work and effort.

Even now some Thai people think I'm not speaking Thai on first meeting.

[StreetCowboy]

Those who can't speak Thai are not going to reply to this thread, apart from Naam. Those who can ARE and are going to say of course we should. I've lived here for 25 years so obviously can. It took a lot of hard work and effort. Even now some Thai people think I'm not speaking Thai on first meeting.

I can only speak sufficient Thai to get home when I'm pissed, and even then, not always. Though that is not down to language problems...

[theblether]

Fluency is difficult, the tonal aspect of Thai ( and other Asian languages ) is effectively a cunning barrier against learning for we of a Western extract.

This issue has been the topic of conversation a few times in the last few days in my residence/hotel. My attitude is that it's retarded not to be able to count to 10 in Thai, not to know the words for left and right, not to be able to return a greeting in Thai.

Seriously, think about it........" I've lived here for three years and I can't count to 10 ".

Shocking and ignorant.......shame can be a good motivator to learn.

The tonal aspect of Thai is often invoked by those who don't know it as being a major obstacle to learning the language.It isn't.

Thai is not among the easiest languages (French, Italian, Indonesian) for Westerners but it is very far from being the most difficult (Chinese, Japanese, Arabic)

The language test you set (counting up to 10 etc) for foreigners after 3 years is absurd.After a fortnight - if that - seems about right.

Okay.....I speak some Chinese, I know already

Point is, there are people who have lived here for three years and more that can't count to 10.

[Naam]

I have experienced so many positives about studying the Thai language. Some have been covered at length in this thread already.

For me, an important reason for studying this beautiful language is to keep my ageing brain alert and functioning.

There has been extensive research conducted proving that learning a new skill, such as a foreign language, delays the onset of dementia type illnesses.

and the only skill that delays the onset of old age dementia is to learn a language? give me a break man! some of us who are (like me) retired for more than two decades find that the day's 24 hours are not enough to acquire additional knowledge and use their brains to its utmost capacity.

yawwwnnnnn...

there has also been extensive research that people who present irrelevant theories in public forums...

[StreetCowboy]

Fluency is difficult, the tonal aspect of Thai ( and other Asian languages ) is effectively a cunning barrier against learning for we of a Western extract.

This issue has been the topic of conversation a few times in the last few days in my residence/hotel. My attitude is that it's retarded not to be able to count to 10 in Thai, not to know the words for left and right, not to be able to return a greeting in Thai.

Seriously, think about it........" I've lived here for three years and I can't count to 10 ".

Shocking and ignorant.......shame can be a good motivator to learn.

The tonal aspect of Thai is often invoked by those who don't know it as being a major obstacle to learning the language.It isn't.

Thai is not among the easiest languages (French, Italian, Indonesian) for Westerners but it is very far from being the most difficult (Chinese, Japanese, Arabic)

The language test you set (counting up to 10 etc) for foreigners after 3 years is absurd.After a fortnight - if that - seems about right.

Okay.....I speak some Chinese, I know already

Point is, there are people who have lived here for three years and more that can't count to 10.

I lose count at about six.

(Should that be in the "Glass-filling" thread?)

I think I can count to ten in Thai, but in fact I am probably saying shoes and socks

Edited April 23, 2013 by StreetCowboy

[Naam]

Fluency is difficult, the tonal aspect of Thai ( and other Asian languages ) is effectively a cunning barrier against learning for we of a Western extract.

This issue has been the topic of conversation a few times in the last few days in my residence/hotel. My attitude is that it's retarded not to be able to count to 10 in Thai, not to know the words for left and right, not to be able to return a greeting in Thai.

Seriously, think about it........" I've lived here for three years and I can't count to 10 ".

Shocking and ignorant.......shame can be a good motivator to learn.

The tonal aspect of Thai is often invoked by those who don't know it as being a major obstacle to learning the language.It isn't.

Thai is not among the easiest languages (French, Italian, Indonesian) for Westerners but it is very far from being the most difficult (Chinese, Japanese, Arabic)

The language test you set (counting up to 10 etc) for foreigners after 3 years is absurd.After a fortnight - if that - seems about right.

Okay.....I speak some Chinese, I know already

Point is, there are people who have lived here for three years and more that can't count to 10.

that's really shocking! how do these people buy 11 bananas or 12 bread rolls?

so you speak some Chinese Blether? hats off! that's an extraordinary achievement because Chinese is a language that does not exist.

[JLCrab]

Au contraire. Chinese does exist: It is a written language. There are many dialects which is why movies made and shown in China still have captions in Chinese writing at the bottom of the TV screen.

[falkan]

anymore programs like rosetta stone and highspeedthai out there anyone can recommend?

[transam]

Fluency is difficult, the tonal aspect of Thai ( and other Asian languages ) is effectively a cunning barrier against learning for we of a Western extract.

This issue has been the topic of conversation a few times in the last few days in my residence/hotel. My attitude is that it's retarded not to be able to count to 10 in Thai, not to know the words for left and right, not to be able to return a greeting in Thai.

Seriously, think about it........" I've lived here for three years and I can't count to 10 ".

Shocking and ignorant.......shame can be a good motivator to learn.

The tonal aspect of Thai is often invoked by those who don't know it as being a major obstacle to learning the language.It isn't.

Thai is not among the easiest languages (French, Italian, Indonesian) for Westerners but it is very far from being the most difficult (Chinese, Japanese, Arabic)

The language test you set (counting up to 10 etc) for foreigners after 3 years is absurd.After a fortnight - if that - seems about right.

Okay.....I speak some Chinese, I know already

Point is, there are people who have lived here for three years and more that can't count to 10.

As an English guy, I do at times not understand you Scots English, so where do we go from here. . Must add some Irish English is a problem too.

[eeeya]

I would have thought learning Thai to be a goal for a retiree with some time on their hands.

Perfect opportunity more like it.

Probably wouldn't interfere with surfing thai visa either.

Even if you have convinced yourself that its totally unnecessary, and it may well be given your chosen circle of life, you could at least call it a hobby where you have plenty of opportunity to practice.

My mum is 70, studies french 4 days a week at school and subscribes to french satellite tv(in oz)

Trip to france once a year with dad, bumbling around practicing their skills.

Never too old.

Buggered if I'm going to waste this opportunity I have living in the country of my chosen target language I'm learning

[SteeleJoe]

so you speak some Chinese Blether? hats off! that's an extraordinary achievement because Chinese is a language that does not exist.

It definitely exists. And not just as a written language. Also known as "Standard Chinese" or "Modern Standard Chinese" it is the official language of...wait for it...China!

[transam]

so you speak some Chinese Blether? hats off! that's an extraordinary achievement because Chinese is a language that does not exist.

It definitely exists. And not just as a written language. Also known as "Standard Chinese" or "Modern Standard Chinese" it is the official language of...wait for it...China!

Thought it was called Mandarin for the masses. Many other dialects called Chinese, not one.

[JLCrab]

Mandarin Chinese (PuTongHua) is the dominant language and the official language -- it's been 15+ years or so since I set foot in China or even Hong Kong. At least in Guangzhuo Cantonese is still widely spoken (never been there).

When I first learned Chinese reading and writing 40+ years ago I was not taught how to speak the language as there was no real practical reason to do so. It was approached more like Latin

Edited April 23, 2013 by JLCrab