Liverpool F.c.

[alfieconn]

Only a Liverpool fan could burn a Torres shirt after landing a staggering 50 million for him, and STILL think they are victims of something. (see photo at top of article - link below).

http://www.telegraph...lion-offer.html

Should be up in arms at the Carroll deal really. But then some of them do prefer to live in the past....

Looking at it logicly if both players play to there full potential, then how much will they both be worth in 5 years time.

Torres perhaps 15m, Carroll perhaps 40m.

Therefore a loss of 35m on Torres, a profit of 5m on Carroll

If both players go down the pan, in 5 years time

Torres perhaps 3m, Carroll perhaps 8m.

Therefore a loss of 47m on Torres, a loss of 27m on Carroll.

Carroll's wages are probaly a lot less as well

No brainer if you ask me, would have loved him at Spurs for 35m.

[smokie36]

Alf I know. Suarez too....smack Redknapp round the head with a baseball bat please will ya.

[sharecropper]

Oh dear. I just hope that fan isn't already burning an Andy Carrol shirt:

According to the Toon Talk Newcastle fan website, Carroll claimed via a series of text messages that he was forced out of St James' Park by club suits, who are believed to have asked the striker to pretend he wanted to leave. A man named Steve, who runs the website and claims to be friends with Carroll, says the player texted him on Saturday afternoon to say "I'm not going anywhere mate," only to change his tune shortly after 5pm yesterday afternoon, when he revealed that "They have kind of said we don't want u but want me to say I wanna go. And I said I don't want to go."

Carroll then went on to reveal that, contrary to what was reported in the news, he didn't hand in a transfer request yesterday. "No I didn't that's what I mean that's what they wanted me to do and I said no," he said via another text to Toon Talk. He then went on to say that he was "Gutted to be leaving Newcastle but I was kind of pushed out the door."

From the UK Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/01/football-transfer-rumours-andy-carroll

[Englander]

Gascoigne didnt have may top flight games before going for Britains biggest fee, neither did Waddle Rooney etc....

Liverpool have got one hell of a player and many still seem to be whining.

The biggest rip off of the day was 50 million for a injury prone player who has looked average for 18 months.

[Englander]

Your club has spent massive money on an unproven player though. Thats all thats massive about it.

Is Bale still unproven as theyve played a similar amount of top flight games?

To answer my question id say yes but he'd be worth a punt for a similar amount.

Besides the only reason they spent so much is because theyve inflated the market by getting 50 million for Torres.

[StevieH]

Less than one year ago this club was spending 30-40 M on servicing our debt.

What a turn around now were spending 30-40 m on players! and that's all you can ask for from the owners!

So far so good FSG... Two massive signings that.

agreed. i'm perfectly happy with this transfer window as it turns out. not least that it seems the owners aren't full of shit like the previous ones.

think if carroll can keep his head straight he's going to become a hell of a player.

[StevieH]

What the f***? Just got online after working all day here, looks like I've missed an amazing day. Carroll for 35 million pounds? Had a great season but, c'mon, really? 35 million?

brilliant young talent + january window premium + our urgent need to replace torres + english tax = £35m. rooney cost £30m and he was about as proven as carroll.

i know it's a lot but it's a moneyball signing. he's an investment for the next five or six years and should, hopefully, just get better and better. plus he's homegrown so helps the quota thing.

[StevieH]

I think we are all spinning jimjim 35 mill for andy carroll does dalglish know what he is doing?

dalglish has always had an eye for a player. ian rush was deemed irreplaceable when he left for juventus, kenny went out and got barnes, beardsley and alridge.

not that i think carroll is uniquely dalglish's signing - hand of commolli all over this one for me.

[sharecropper]

Less than one year ago this club was spending 30-40 M on servicing our debt.

What a turn around now were spending 30-40 m on players! and that's all you can ask for from the owners!

So far so good FSG... Two massive signings that.

agreed. i'm perfectly happy with this transfer window as it turns out. not least that it seems the owners aren't full of shit like the previous ones.

think if carroll can keep his head straight he's going to become a hell of a player.

He should be OK.

Just make sure he doesn't go out on the lash with his mate Joey Barton in town on a Saturday night.

More seriously, how will having Suarez and Carroll change the playing style of the team do you think?

[smokie36]

Gascoigne didnt have may top flight games before going for Britains biggest fee, neither did Waddle Rooney etc....

Liverpool have got one hell of a player and many still seem to be whining.

The biggest rip off of the day was 50 million for a injury prone player who has looked average for 18 months.

I agree with you....just don't tell Seapok....he's delirious the poor sod!

Wait till the new boyis out for four weeks...then eight....rest of the season etc.....

And then when he's 30 and they want to sell....given the injury record....maybe £8-10m.....great business for Liverpool.

[sharecropper]

I'm guessing Spaniards don't know when to keep their stupid mouths shut. Or has Torres really, finally gone to a "big club"?

[Jockstar]

Says he can't wait to score against Liverpool or words to that effect!

[rixalex]

Says he can't wait to score against Liverpool or words to that effect!

Knob. I take back the comments i made earlier in defence of his character.

[PattayaParent]

& you pull me because you don't think Kenny has anything to do with this

It has been made very clear from the very start that the Manager was not going to be given sole responsibility for recruitment of players at Liverpool under FSG. I am sure that Kenny has a lot of input. Typically managers do not do well for a number reasons - they are given a fixed transfer budget and a total wage constraint this tends to lead to them signing older players on long contracts who produce most early on and who are valued less because their value will diminish. So older players are grossly overvalued because managers choose short term returns.

One of the problems with G&H is that they had absolutely no clue so while initially they spent on players when they didnt see returns they stopped. FSG clearly have some very strong ideas over how to create value over and above what the player might add to the team over the next year. Obviously Carroll may end up in jail but it is their money and their risk. Look ultimate risk in football is paying 30m for Schevchenko at 30 on 200k a week because their is no upside to the gamble and guaranteed downside - it is mere stupidity.

Now I agree that Carroll is a big gamble and needs to be a long term investment to pay off. But professional owners like FSG will spend far more making their own gambles than handing them over to someone else.

They had no clue in that they gave money to the manager to do with as he wanted with no control and only realised their mistake when it was too late.

[PattayaParent]

Your club has spent massive money on an unproven player though. Thats all thats massive about it.

Is Bale still unproven as theyve played a similar amount of top flight games?

To answer my question id say yes but he'd be worth a punt for a similar amount.

Besides the only reason they spent so much is because theyve inflated the market by getting 50 million for Torres.

All that's proven about Bale is that he can't get the better of a 32 year old Manc in a bue shirt.

[rott]

What the f***? Just got online after working all day here, looks like I've missed an amazing day. Carroll for 35 million pounds? Had a great season but, c'mon, really? 35 million?

brilliant young talent + january window premium + our urgent need to replace torres + english tax = £35m. rooney cost £30m and he was about as proven as carroll.

i know it's a lot but it's a moneyball signing. he's an investment for the next five or six years and should, hopefully, just get better and better. plus he's homegrown so helps the quota thing.

Have to disagree with you here StevieH, Rooney was well proven when he went to Manure, Carroll has had a decent half season that's all.

Suspect though that he will turn out to be almost worth the money.

[Englander]

What the f***? Just got online after working all day here, looks like I've missed an amazing day. Carroll for 35 million pounds? Had a great season but, c'mon, really? 35 million?

brilliant young talent + january window premium + our urgent need to replace torres + english tax = £35m. rooney cost £30m and he was about as proven as carroll.

i know it's a lot but it's a moneyball signing. he's an investment for the next five or six years and should, hopefully, just get better and better. plus he's homegrown so helps the quota thing.

Have to disagree with you here StevieH, Rooney was well proven when he went to Manure, Carroll has had a decent half season that's all.

Suspect though that he will turn out to be almost worth the money.

He has looked very good for 3 seasons.

[Abrak]

I am mystified most about Pepe on the basis that he has a buyout of 20m in the summer. He is probably our most valuable player and could easily be worth 50m. Now I assume he wants to stay in which case give him 5m quid and cancel the buyout or match Casillas 128m. And if he doesnt want to cancel the buyout then Kenny and him need a long hard talk. I cannot understand why the buyout is still there however loyal he is, he is simply going to be made an offer he cant refuse with that buyout. I am sure SAF would love to screw us on this one if he is given the chance.

[rixalex]

I am sure SAF would love to screw us on this one if he is given the chance.

I'm sure he would, along with many other managers. Pepe is a great keeper. One of the best. 50m though? For a keeper? Not sure about that.

Anyway, speaking of screwing, do you consider yourselves now as having been screwed by Chelsea or Torres, or them both; and in your signing of Carrol, did you screw Newcastle? Just curious.

[MSingh]

New Strike Partnership debut tonight then ??

Goal apiece ??

[Dutchscouser]

Torres nearly failed the medical, they could not find a hart

[Devil]

Great game and win that...

3 wins in a row now. Defense looking solid - Well done that man Steve Clark!

Controlled the ball, controlled the game, pass and move The Liverpool Way - Thank You King Kenny

SUREZ instant impact instant hit

[StevieH]

the biggest difference dev is in that the players are buzzing again, they've clearly been told to get at teams higher up the pitch and look to win the ball back. then to enjoy having it and to keep it. suarez looked great on his debut, loads of fire and skill. feels good to have our club back doesn't it?

still expecting that shallow cun_t torres to score against us on sunday of course. which is fine by me so long as he has both of his legs broken by the greek as well.

[bkkjames]

the biggest difference dev is in that the players are buzzing again, they've clearly been told to get at teams higher up the pitch and look to win the ball back. then to enjoy having it and to keep it. suarez looked great on his debut, loads of fire and skill. feels good to have our club back doesn't it?

still expecting that shallow cun_t torres to score against us on sunday of course. which is fine by me so long as he has both of his legs broken by the greek as well.

Never thought I would hear you agreeing with us about Fernando (been saying that for years : he will fit well alongside Didier Diver - hope the refs have earplugs. Oh and I agree about the Greek - get in there!

Edited February 3, 2011 by bkkjames

[Abrak]

the biggest difference dev is in that the players are buzzing again, they've clearly been told to get at teams higher up the pitch and look to win the ball back. then to enjoy having it and to keep it. suarez looked great on his debut, loads of fire and skill. feels good to have our club back doesn't it?

still expecting that shallow cun_t torres to score against us on sunday of course. which is fine by me so long as he has both of his legs broken by the greek as well.

Actually I think one of the great things that have has happened over the last week is that we have suddenly lost our star player - Torres - and as a club we have taken it in our stride moved on and almost forgotten about him already. If it was G&H the money would have just disappeared into a debt hole. I am not saying we are better but not much worse off. Fans are rightly angry at Torres still but when it first happened they were depressed.

That what it really means about 'feeling good to have our club back'.

[StevieH]

the biggest difference dev is in that the players are buzzing again, they've clearly been told to get at teams higher up the pitch and look to win the ball back. then to enjoy having it and to keep it. suarez looked great on his debut, loads of fire and skill. feels good to have our club back doesn't it?

still expecting that shallow cun_t torres to score against us on sunday of course. which is fine by me so long as he has both of his legs broken by the greek as well.

Actually I think one of the great things that have has happened over the last week is that we have suddenly lost our star player - Torres - and as a club we have taken it in our stride moved on and almost forgotten about him already. If it was G&H the money would have just disappeared into a debt hole. I am not saying we are better but not much worse off. Fans are rightly angry at Torres still but when it first happened they were depressed.

That what it really means about 'feeling good to have our club back'.

yes you're right, under G&H the torres money would have vanished into bank coffers. it's easy to forget that six months ago we were paying crippling interest payments and even talking about the spectre of administration.

i think there's a case to make that we're actually stronger now. babel and torres our, suarez and carroll in - you can make a good argument for us being stronger overall, mainly down to torres' fitness and attitude problems. but then i'm all about the bright side and the optimism under kenny now.

[Abrak]

Where we are definitely stronger is in the long term.

If you look at what FSG are doing they are following the model of 'Torres'. Some Liverpool fans like to believe they 'made' Torres but quite the opposite it was young very good and proven very good and very expensive for a young kid. But these acquisitions work well because even if Torres had disappointed he would still have been a valuable first squad member. But obviously he came very very good.

After years of underinvestment the Liverpool is trapped. With older players with no particular long term future. And younger players that are 'maybes' 'have huge potential' 'need first team experience'. It is how you end up with Babels or Sturridge on your bench at 50k a week. I think you may see a lot of the younger guys go out on loan.

That is why I like 'Suarez' or 'Ashley Young' as sort of perfect acquisitions. Suarez has never played in the EPL, he may disappoint but he is clearly good enough to be an good member of the squad and you wont lose a fortune on him. Same with Ashley Young. The good news for us is FSG have a value model. IF you buy Suarez I would you estimate you could sell him for in 4 years - average break even. On that basis Henry doesnt really think he has spent money (other than his salary).

[alfieconn]

the biggest difference dev is in that the players are buzzing again, they've clearly been told to get at teams higher up the pitch and look to win the ball back. then to enjoy having it and to keep it. suarez looked great on his debut, loads of fire and skill. feels good to have our club back doesn't it?

still expecting that shallow cun_t torres to score against us on sunday of course. which is fine by me so long as he has both of his legs broken by the greek as well.

Actually I think one of the great things that have has happened over the last week is that we have suddenly lost our star player - Torres - and as a club we have taken it in our stride moved on and almost forgotten about him already. If it was G&H the money would have just disappeared into a debt hole. I am not saying we are better but not much worse off. Fans are rightly angry at Torres still but when it first happened they were depressed.

That what it really means about 'feeling good to have our club back'.

It does make me laugh when poster's say this, what do you actually mean i'm sure iv'e heard the man u lot say the same

Edited February 3, 2011 by alfieconn

[MSingh]

Great game and win that...

3 wins in a row now. Defense looking solid - Well done that man Steve Clark!

Controlled the ball, controlled the game, pass and move The Liverpool Way - Thank You King Kenny

SUREZ instant impact instant hit

It's Clarke..

Do i have to point out that you are saying thank to someone who has got you an Away win the bottom Club in the Prem, a Home Win against a Fulham Side who have won 1 Away Game in 18 Months & a Stoke side missing their Club Captain in the Centre of their Defence ??

Or would that be too honest for you & not fit into your way of thinking, when sticking your fingers in your ears & covering your eyes to the truth ??

Is that really such a monumental achievemnet ??

If it is, it just shows how much of an awful state your Club is in.

You did manage to get a draw at Home against the worst Everton side for 5 plus Years though so that's another positive i'd guess..

Talk about easily pleased, Jesus..

[Abrak]

Talk about easily pleased, Jesus..

WE are pleased because we have our club back.

Actually the people looking foolish on this thread are the people who have been attacking us....

First it was fans blame...

the owners

lack of investment

the manager

then when we stopped complaining you said

we had the wrong manager

owners who wouldnt invest

owners invested too much in crap

and fans who always complain

When in fact the fans are exceedingly happy... You still have a few more to go....

'the way you are investing you wont get in the top 4 next year' or perhaps even worst....

'why did you spend 35m on Carroll when your back 4 is still leaking goals'

It rather reminds me of what Henry says about some 'baseball knowledge' it is often so inherently stupid that you are not interested in discussing it in the first place. I mean what is one supposed to say =to someone who believes that Torres will make the perfect strike partner to 'Didier Drogba'. Or to someone who thinks 'Martin O'Neill should be the manager without any intervention from the owners'. (Not aimed at you Singh but just some responses.)