Liverpool F.c.

[sharecropper]

Interesting article on someone who might have seen Roy stay at Anfield, who might have helped revive your fortunes, and who would have saved Liverpool money on The Carthorse.

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/03/21/what-might-have-been-had-mario-gomez-left-bayern-munich-for-liverpool/

[Devil]

Carroll, Henderson, Adam....need I say more?

Exactly smokie exactly. Konchelsky was an aweful buy but compared to the clusterf*ck of spending since it pales into insignificance.

And did you notice Dev couldn't answer the question honestly could he!! he ducked it. Incidentally smokes do you think that Woy was quite as evil and poisonous as they thought as they were abusing and undermining him" If you asked the other 19 football managers in the league about him they'd say he was doing rather a good job.

Dev ducked my question because you can't defend the indefensible and he knows i'm right

As Ferguson said recently, Woy never had a chance, and fair enough if the man love thing went with rafa and they wanted the return of a club legend but why the appalling vitriol and undermining of your own manager and team?

Ducked your question Carmine...? Honestly I gave up reading when you started making up imaginary scenarios still involving Roy Hodgson as our manager!

Maybe I am the minority in regards to our transfers but I think we have done ok all in all if you look at who went out for who came in bearing in mind players two players wanting to leave and hand in transfer requests...such as Meireless and Torres.

Suarez 23m (replaced Babel)

Enrique 6m (replaced Konchesky)

Henderson 12m (replaced Meireless)

Downing 18m (replaced Jovanovic)

Carroll 35m (replaced Torres)

Doni free

Bellamy free (replaced Ngog)

Adam 6m (replaced Poulsen)

Coates 7m (replaced Kyrgiakos)

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[carmine]

Carroll, Henderson, Adam....need I say more?

Exactly smokie exactly. Konchelsky was an aweful buy but compared to the clusterf*ck of spending since it pales into insignificance.

And did you notice Dev couldn't answer the question honestly could he!! he ducked it. Incidentally smokes do you think that Woy was quite as evil and poisonous as they thought as they were abusing and undermining him" If you asked the other 19 football managers in the league about him they'd say he was doing rather a good job.

Dev ducked my question because you can't defend the indefensible and he knows i'm right

As Ferguson said recently, Woy never had a chance, and fair enough if the man love thing went with rafa and they wanted the return of a club legend but why the appalling vitriol and undermining of your own manager and team?

Ducked your question Carmine...? Honestly I gave up reading when you started making up imaginary scenarios still involving Roy Hodgson as our manager!

Maybe I am the minority in regards to our transfers but I think we have done ok all in all if you look at who went out for who came in bearing in mind players two players wanting to leave and hand in transfer requests...such as Meireless and Torres.

Suarez 23m (replaced Babel)

Enrique 6m (replaced Konchesky)

Henderson 12m (replaced Meireless)

Downing 18m (replaced Jovanovic)

Carroll 35m (replaced Torres)

Doni free

Bellamy free (replaced Ngog)

Adam 6m (replaced Poulsen)

Coates 7m (replaced Kyrgiakos)

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

In other words dev, yes, you ducked the question. But i don't blame you because as i said before you can't defend the indefensible.

Most of us think Woy did a very fine job ( bar a few tacticle cock ups and a couple of bad buys) all things being considered.

i'll also wager he's doing a much better job at the baggies than KK could do. And please don't give me that cr*p of "thats because he's only good enough to manage small teams."

Edited March 21, 2012 by carmine

[Devil]

Carroll, Henderson, Adam....need I say more?

Exactly smokie exactly. Konchelsky was an aweful buy but compared to the clusterf*ck of spending since it pales into insignificance.

And did you notice Dev couldn't answer the question honestly could he!! he ducked it. Incidentally smokes do you think that Woy was quite as evil and poisonous as they thought as they were abusing and undermining him" If you asked the other 19 football managers in the league about him they'd say he was doing rather a good job.

Dev ducked my question because you can't defend the indefensible and he knows i'm right

As Ferguson said recently, Woy never had a chance, and fair enough if the man love thing went with rafa and they wanted the return of a club legend but why the appalling vitriol and undermining of your own manager and team?

Ducked your question Carmine...? Honestly I gave up reading when you started making up imaginary scenarios still involving Roy Hodgson as our manager!

Maybe I am the minority in regards to our transfers but I think we have done ok all in all if you look at who went out for who came in bearing in mind players two players wanting to leave and hand in transfer requests...such as Meireless and Torres.

Suarez 23m (replaced Babel)

Enrique 6m (replaced Konchesky)

Henderson 12m (replaced Meireless)

Downing 18m (replaced Jovanovic)

Carroll 35m (replaced Torres)

Doni free

Bellamy free (replaced Ngog)

Adam 6m (replaced Poulsen)

Coates 7m (replaced Kyrgiakos)

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

In other words dev, yes, you ducked the question. But i don't blame you because as i said before you can't defend the indefensible.

Most of us think Woy did a very fine job ( bar a few tacticle cock ups and a couple of bad buys) all things being considered.

i'll also wager he's doing a much better job at the baggies than KK could do. And please don't give me that cr*p of "thats because he's only good enough to manage small teams."

Are you actually serious Carmine or just trying to wind me up...your comment has left me speechless - "Most of us think Woy did a very fine job"

And now your making up more imaginery scenraious - Kenny managing West Brom ???

You will look an absolute *** if your trying to even make a case by comparing Managerial success between Kenny and Roys careers !

[rixalex]

You will look an absolute *** if your trying to even make a case by comparing Managerial success between Kenny and Roys careers !

I think if we are broadening the comparison to include their entire managerial careers, not just their time at Liverpool, i would say there is strong case for Roy having achieved more, relatively speaking.

[carmine]

You will look an absolute *** if your trying to even make a case by comparing Managerial success between Kenny and Roys careers !

I think if we are broadening the comparison to include their entire managerial careers, not just their time at Liverpool, i would say there is strong case for Roy having achieved more, relatively speaking.

It must be tough trying to motivate your team durin a match when your own fans want the team to lose so the manager will be sacked. Thats why theres little sympathy for their current mediocrity

[rixalex]

It must be tough trying to motivate your team durin a match when your own fans want the team to lose so the manager will be sacked. Thats why theres little sympathy for their current mediocrity

My lack of sympathy stems not only from that, but from the way they seem to think being loyal must mean being blind.

Thankfully there are exceptions. Nellyp is living proof.

[Abrak]

OK guys we got the message. You though Rafa was rubbish, we rather liked him (actually I wasnt really his greatest fan) afterall he did win us the CL and get us our highest finish in the PL for 20 years. You think Hodgson was pretty good, we thought he was kack - it wasnt just his League performance it was his approach, ethos, tactics, interviews, transfers etc. But in both cases, it is now history. We have moved on, so why cant you?

As for Dalglish, the policy is not blind loyalty. However, he does fit Liverpool like a glove and he had the most successful winning record of any manager at the club in his previous stint winning 3 PLs and 2 FA Cups (I am rather surprised that Hodgson can beat that actually.) I dont see a lot to critcize - although I agree with Nellyp that Kenny seems very late with substitutions and I am also baffled by his persistance to continue to play Henderson on the right when his more natural position is more central. Patience is a virtue.

[rixalex]

You though Rafa was rubbish, we rather liked him (actually I wasnt really his greatest fan) afterall he did win us the CL and get us our highest finish in the PL for 20 years.

Rafa wasn't rubbish but nor was he perfect, and he had in my opinion started taking the club in a downward direction - a fact that is often met with complete denial, in favour of entirely blaming the owners.

You think Hodgson was pretty good, we thought he was kack - it wasnt just his League performance it was his approach, ethos, tactics, interviews, transfers etc.

I thought Hodgson was pretty average during his time at LFC, and certainly guilty of some PR blunders, as well as some other blunders, but i'm sorry, for me none of that made him deserving of the sort of venom that he received from the club's own fans, and it is unforgivable that any fan should be cheering for their team to lose just to spite the manager.

[Abrak]

I thought Hodgson was pretty average during his time at LFC, and certainly guilty of some PR blunders, as well as some other blunders, but i'm sorry, for me none of that made him deserving of the sort of venom that he received from the club's own fans, and it is unforgivable that any fan should be cheering for their team to lose just to spite the manager.

I wouldnt feel too sorry for Woy. He earnt more than Messi last season.

[RichBKK]

You will look an absolute *** if your trying to even make a case by comparing Managerial success between Kenny and Roys careers !

I think if we are broadening the comparison to include their entire managerial careers, not just their time at Liverpool, i would say there is strong case for Roy having achieved more, relatively speaking.

Roy Hodgson is the managerial equivalent of lichen. Been around for ever but hard to really see what purpose he really serves in the game, i.e. not really sure what he is actually for

Mid table manager, with generally speaking unprogressive, dinosaur tactics. Which work ok for mid table clubs and relegation teams and limited players. Personally I much prefer the likes of Brendan Rodgers and Paul Lambert and Owen Coyle, at least they have some ambition about their play. If Hodgson ever became England manager, watch the wembley crowds dwindle away very quickly

Having said that, I didn tlike some of the abuse he got. His main problem was that he couldnt stop putting his foot in it and wasnt self aware enough to realise that while Rafa was only jus off the scene and Kenny back on it he had to tread super carefully in what he did. It was like putting Timmy Mallett in charge of peace talk negotiations between Israel and Palestine

as for Rafa, he was a top manager, his record in the game speaks for itself, both in Spain and here. Though personally I didnt take to some thing i.e. the excuses which he hid behind a lot come the end, the inability to adapt when financial times got tough [he had long enough to have been able to prepare for the inevitable but he still kept on selling people because he fell out with them e.g yossi], and he did appeal to the more 'sensitive to criticism' fan by playing on the persecuted misunderstood genius card too much. Which left me not so much cold but a bit like a popsicle by the end. Media management is also an important part of the job that he thought because the fans are touchy and suspicious about the presses that he could completely bypass. Something I think he has learnt from lately as hes been working in the media more

but there is a reason why he hasnt been able to find a job yet. Business owners dont want people in their companies who will rock the boat whenever something goes wrong straight away instead of perhaps being at times pragmatic and also mindful that some things you cant change, no matter how good you may be as a tactician

as for kenny, he is having to relearn aspects of the job and in some things hes a little off the pace with i.e. the reality that English players arent quite as talented these days as they once were. Other things though, like for instance the imporance of silverware, is something he has brought to the club which is an improvement on those before him who had a more 'wenger' view on things. Which has its merits but doesnt bring a winning mentality

[SantiSuk]

Now that is a great stat Abrak

[sharecropper]

Did Roy ever oversee a 2-0 victory to a 3-2 loss in 13 minutes against vastly inferior opposition (and no I don't mean Everton), then storm out of a press conference? Whatever Liverpool supporters think, I believe he is way out of his depth.

He's done his job, steadied the ship, now should be let go, in your best interests.

[nev]

Did Roy ever oversee a 2-0 victory to a 3-2 loss in 13 minutes against vastly inferior opposition (and no I don't mean Everton), then storm out of a press conference? Whatever Liverpool supporters think, I believe he is way out of his depth.

He's done his job, steadied the ship, now should be let go, in your best interests.

No No he must stay the Muppet is good value, and taking liverpool exactly where us man utd fans want to see them.

22 YEARS now happy days!!.

[SantiSuk]

Perhaps when a team of the combined cost somewhere in the region of Carroll (who will one day shrug off the carthorse epithet I'm sure) and no history of note overtakes Liverpool, there will be a reality check.

[Devil]

Sat up watching the game and was thinking can't believe we're not 6-7 up already...but thinking thank god we've finished two chances, we finally get a reward for all that possession, corners, shots etc, it was just one way traffic. There was a couple of forced changes due to injuries but thought it was all over and done and almost feeling sorry for QPR they looked lost.

The link up play with Gerrard and Suarez was fantastic at times and both looked to be on a different level to anyone else on the pitch? It was like watching a 5 a side training sessions at times and I saw some of our best football all season in parts.

Then...we concede 3 goals in what was it 13 mins??? Still scratching my head how the back four switched off at the end.

This is a hard one to take and sums up the league form this year.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[nev]

Perhaps when a team of the combined cost somewhere in the region of Carroll (who will one day shrug off the carthorse epithet I'm sure) and no history of note overtakes Liverpool, there will be a reality check.

Swansea only 3 points behind i believe.

[Jimjim]

Sat up watching the game and was thinking can't believe we're not 6-7 up already...but thinking thank god we've finished two chances, we finally get a reward for all that possession, corners, shots etc, it was just one way traffic. There was a couple of forced changes due to injuries but thought it was all over and done and almost feeling sorry for QPR they looked lost.

The link up play with Gerrard and Suarez was fantastic at times and both looked to be on a different level to anyone else on the pitch? It was like watching a 5 a side training sessions at times and I saw some of our best football all season in parts.

Then...we concede 3 goals in what was it 13 mins??? Still scratching my head how the back four switched off at the end.

This is a hard one to take and sums up the league form this year.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Agree with you, Dev.

Was thinking, finally we score a couple of goals, one a goal of the season contender for Coates, his first for us and really amazing.

I thought at least, even though we should have put a couple more away, at least we have something to show for our efforts, and then we collapse and as Kenny said, we weren't even under any pressure.

I want QPR to stay up but was hoping we'd beat them on this one and then they'd go on a good winning run after this.

That's just not good enough, to switch off in the last few minutes like that. Bad defending on the corner and I don't know what Enrique was doing for that last goal.

Shocking loss, really, just shocking.

I was just numb after those last few minutes letting those goals in the last 15 minutes (stoppage time included).

I'm not sure I've seen us collapse like that in a long, long time. There was the Spurs match earlier this season but that was when we were down to 9 men.

Not sure what to think about that, another hard one to take...

[SantiSuk]

Sat up watching the game and was thinking can't believe we're not 6-7 up already...but thinking thank god we've finished two chances, we finally get a reward for all that possession, corners, shots etc, it was just one way traffic. There was a couple of forced changes due to injuries but thought it was all over and done and almost feeling sorry for QPR they looked lost.

The link up play with Gerrard and Suarez was fantastic at times and both looked to be on a different level to anyone else on the pitch? It was like watching a 5 a side training sessions at times and I saw some of our best football all season in parts.

Then...we concede 3 goals in what was it 13 mins??? Still scratching my head how the back four switched off at the end.

This is a hard one to take and sums up the league form this year.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Agree with you, Dev.

Was thinking, finally we score a couple of goals, one a goal of the season contender for Coates, his first for us and really amazing.

I thought at least, even though we should have put a couple more away, at least we have something to show for our efforts, and then we collapse and as Kenny said, we weren't even under any pressure.

I want QPR to stay up but was hoping we'd beat them on this one and then they'd go on a good winning run after this.

That's just not good enough, to switch off in the last few minutes like that. Bad defending on the corner and I don't know what Enrique was doing for that last goal.

Shocking loss, really, just shocking.

I was just numb after those last few minutes letting those goals in the last 15 minutes (stoppage time included).

I'm not sure I've seen us collapse like that in a long, long time. There was the Spurs match earlier this season but that was when we were down to 9 men.

Not sure what to think about that, another hard one to take...

Having seen it now - quite incredible game. I thought Newcastle 4 Arsenal 4 last season was tough to take, but that one ranks up there with it.

Watch out cos that Newcastle game turned Arsenal's season into a pathetic whimpering end from which we are only just recovering

[Devil]

Sat up watching the game and was thinking can't believe we're not 6-7 up already...but thinking thank god we've finished two chances, we finally get a reward for all that possession, corners, shots etc, it was just one way traffic. There was a couple of forced changes due to injuries but thought it was all over and done and almost feeling sorry for QPR they looked lost.

The link up play with Gerrard and Suarez was fantastic at times and both looked to be on a different level to anyone else on the pitch? It was like watching a 5 a side training sessions at times and I saw some of our best football all season in parts.

Then...we concede 3 goals in what was it 13 mins??? Still scratching my head how the back four switched off at the end.

This is a hard one to take and sums up the league form this year.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Agree with you, Dev.

Was thinking, finally we score a couple of goals, one a goal of the season contender for Coates, his first for us and really amazing.

I thought at least, even though we should have put a couple more away, at least we have something to show for our efforts, and then we collapse and as Kenny said, we weren't even under any pressure.

I want QPR to stay up but was hoping we'd beat them on this one and then they'd go on a good winning run after this.

That's just not good enough, to switch off in the last few minutes like that. Bad defending on the corner and I don't know what Enrique was doing for that last goal.

Shocking loss, really, just shocking.

I was just numb after those last few minutes letting those goals in the last 15 minutes (stoppage time included).

I'm not sure I've seen us collapse like that in a long, long time. There was the Spurs match earlier this season but that was when we were down to 9 men.

Not sure what to think about that, another hard one to take...

Yeah madness wasn't it...

Can't say I have been so annoyed after a game as this! I can take it if we actually played bad and deserved to loose.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[rixalex]

Yeah madness wasn't it...

Can't say I have been so annoyed after a game as this! I can take it if we actually played bad and deserved to loose.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Are you saying you didn't deserve to lose?

Can't help but remember being told after our loss to you in the FA Cup that me saying we didn't deserve to lose was a nonsense as we scored less than you, and it is the team that scores most that deserves to win. Perhaps it wasn't you making that point, but on the other hand, i don't recall you disagreeing with it either.

[Abrak]

Anywho for those who cant bear to watch the match but want to see Sebastian Coates goal.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/golazo-sebastian-coates-liverpool-v-qpr/

[RichBKK]

Is and has been for a nmber of years an alarming lack of what used to be known as 'moral fibre' with this side

Its been evident under 3 managers now so its not a Kenny thing. Some may say its a 2 decade problem

personally am so tired of getting up at stupid o clock to watch jaff football and there IS an accountability issue at LFC. Has been like that for years, because unfortunately the way of dealing with criticism has been to get defensive and over protective. Changing things up just isnt in the clubs DNA

There is no point in changing the manager though, because the problem will not go away just like that. In some ways the damage has already been done after years of corner shop ownership and a sneering disregard for the commercial aspect of the game which has only seriously been adressed in the last couple of years

Liverpool Way just isnt really a proactive concept these days. it tends to go against doing anything radical which seems to be like, I dunno, not playing any young attackers anywhere near the first team, not loaning our young players who get games to the right clubs, not having an organised and effective senior scouting team not just in the UK but in Europe and across the world

FSG have got to get serious. If they thought just turning up, giving a few quid and running the whole shebang from Boston and automatically assuming the same thing that happened in making the Red Sox champions through buying underachieving and average statto players is going to be enough, then they are WRONG in that assumption

whole mindset, philosophy, approach and god knows how many other things needs some serious bloody work

[nellyp]

Did Roy ever oversee a 2-0 victory to a 3-2 loss in 13 minutes against vastly inferior opposition (and no I don't mean Everton), then storm out of a press conference? Whatever Liverpool supporters think, I believe he is way out of his depth.

He's done his job, steadied the ship, now should be let go, in your best interests.

How can you possibly blame the manager for 13 minutes of madness, take your hat off and slip that brain back in mate.

[nellyp]

Perhaps when a team of the combined cost somewhere in the region of Carroll (who will one day shrug off the carthorse epithet I'm sure) and no history of note overtakes Liverpool, there will be a reality check.

Swansea only 3 points behind i believe.

I like Swansea. they have a brilliant work ethic and work as a complete unit. Personally I would like to see them further up the table, hopefully they could push us up ahead of them. We could seriously do with a push.

[nellyp]

Is and has been for a nmber of years an alarming lack of what used to be known as 'moral fibre' with this side

Its been evident under 3 managers now so its not a Kenny thing. Some may say its a 2 decade problem

personally am so tired of getting up at stupid o clock to watch jaff football and there IS an accountability issue at LFC. Has been like that for years, because unfortunately the way of dealing with criticism has been to get defensive and over protective. Changing things up just isnt in the clubs DNA

There is no point in changing the manager though, because the problem will not go away just like that. In some ways the damage has already been done after years of corner shop ownership and a sneering disregard for the commercial aspect of the game which has only seriously been adressed in the last couple of years

Liverpool Way just isnt really a proactive concept these days. it tends to go against doing anything radical which seems to be like, I dunno, not playing any young attackers anywhere near the first team, not loaning our young players who get games to the right clubs, not having an organised and effective senior scouting team not just in the UK but in Europe and across the world

FSG have got to get serious. If they thought just turning up, giving a few quid and running the whole shebang from Boston and automatically assuming the same thing that happened in making the Red Sox champions through buying underachieving and average statto players is going to be enough, then they are WRONG in that assumption

whole mindset, philosophy, approach and god knows how many other things needs some serious bloody work

I missed the game and I don't want to see it. At the moment I'm basking in the glory of Wales' grand slam. I'm unlikely (read definitely not going) to get a glow like it from my football boys this year again. But I have one cup to be thankful for, another to wish for, and the prospect of more goals next season (it can't be this bad again) which will breed more confidence for the under-performers, and a meteoric rise up the table. Funny that though, I only ever see meteors coming down; so I need to rephrase that particular oxymoron. Too late though I'm off to bed.

P.S please don't use me in your bating sessions as proof of anything. I also think Kenny is Boss, but I will never, ever put up with anything that will stop our progress. I don't think Kenny is doing that yet, whereas I did think Roy was. It is disgraceful for any fan of a team to barrack or boo the players or manager. I don't even like the abuse we give other teams. I love my team but I don't hate any others.

Yep, I am too tired now. Goodnight, live long and prosper.

[Jimjim]

Yeah madness wasn't it...

Can't say I have been so annoyed after a game as this! I can take it if we actually played bad and deserved to loose.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

To be honest, our horrible form of late and the way we've failed to win games in which we've dominated all season kind of prepared me for this one. I was just numb. I did give a childish, despairing scream after that third goal, though. I wanted to scream louder than I've ever screamed. But after that first goal, in some way I wasn't even surprised to see Cisse score, and the third goal to top it all off. I had some eery feeling it was going to happen like that after the first goal.

I wondered if 3 games in 8 days led to a lack of mental sharpness at the end. I don't know. No other excuse for it really than we just didn't fight hard enough to the end and the players dropped their guard.

[SantiSuk]

The answer lies in the last para of posting #8711!

I'm not saying Wenger is right - clearly not, since I want him out and our 2011 season foundered on playing for one cup too many (he later hinted heavily that he got it wrong pushing too hard for the Milk Cup last year). There are just too many games to play if you go full tilt at everything, unless you have a superhuman squad and luck with injuries, like Barca. I give the Milk Cup another 2 or 3 years before the opt out pressures emerge.

Edited March 23, 2012 by SantiSuk

[Abrak]

The answer lies in the last para of posting #8711!

I'm not saying Wenger is right - clearly not, since I want him out and our 2011 season foundered on playing for one cup too many (he later hinted heavily that he got it wrong pushing too hard for the Milk Cup last year). There are just too many games to play if you go full tilt at everything, unless you have a superhuman squad and luck with injuries, like Barca. I give the Milk Cup another 2 or 3 years before the opt out pressures emerge.

Still that does sum up Arsenal's strategy. They prioritize the CL and the League every year, two competitions they are not good enough to win, and disrespect the FA cup and League Cup, two competitions they are capable of winning. As a consequence they end up winning nothing.

[Jockstar]

Did Roy ever oversee a 2-0 victory to a 3-2 loss in 13 minutes against vastly inferior opposition (and no I don't mean Everton), then storm out of a press conference? Whatever Liverpool supporters think, I believe he is way out of his depth.

He's done his job, steadied the ship, now should be let go, in your best interests.

How can you possibly blame the manager for 13 minutes of madness, take your hat off and slip that brain back in mate.

He's an Everton fan.