Liverpool F.c.

[nellyp]

It would be pointless to offload him. As someone has already said you'll get a max of 15m and theres no way FFG is taking a hit like that.

Remember his price is amortized over 5 years. So if he was sold in the summer for 15m, the loss would be approximately 9m. Not exactly chicken feed but not really such a big deal (less than Man City lose in a month).

Whoa there boy. You are talking accounting loss, whereas 99.99% of the footballing world thinks in terms of cash. Even if you are talking accounting, what you're saying is 'if we ignore the expense we wrote of this year (on a player that never delivered the value implied by that expense anyway) then the loss is much less than you first thought of.'

Smoke and mirrors matey! :-)

[Chartered Accountant (retired) TV Member]

Seems to me that most of the world thinking in terms of cash is pretty smoky in itself. It's all money on paper, and moving it from column a to column b isn't it.. I kind of agree though, the loss would still be a loss. we will never get that money back, if the opportunity is there to sell him for that loss to buy a proven quality player then I say sell him ( for the benefit of the team ) if not then we keep him to use against the teams where he can threaten the back line. I do think he can become a much better player but we do not have the time to be wasting on getting him there as our first choice. if we buy another striker who will get us 15-20 goals a season the pressure would be off and we could stop blaming him for everything. The way it is we might as well have kept.

[Abrak]

It would be pointless to offload him. As someone has already said you'll get a max of 15m and theres no way FFG is taking a hit like that.

Remember his price is amortized over 5 years. So if he was sold in the summer for 15m, the loss would be approximately 9m. Not exactly chicken feed but not really such a big deal (less than Man City lose in a month).

Whoa there boy. You are talking accounting loss, whereas 99.99% of the footballing world thinks in terms of cash. Even if you are talking accounting, what you're saying is 'if we ignore the expense we wrote of this year (on a player that never delivered the value implied by that expense anyway) then the loss is much less than you first thought of.'

Smoke and mirrors matey! :-)

[Chartered Accountant (retired) TV Member]

Well actually my comment was in reference to Carmine's 'hit verses FFP' which is the accounting loss

In any event it seems a 'loss' that everyone seems inherently focused on. It would in fact be less than Chelsea's loss over 8 months on AVB for instance in cash terms including wages.

[carmine]

It would be pointless to offload him. As someone has already said you'll get a max of 15m and theres no way FFG is taking a hit like that.

Remember his price is amortized over 5 years. So if he was sold in the summer for 15m, the loss would be approximately 9m. Not exactly chicken feed but not really such a big deal (less than Man City lose in a month).

Whoa there boy. You are talking accounting loss, whereas 99.99% of the footballing world thinks in terms of cash. Even if you are talking accounting, what you're saying is 'if we ignore the expense we wrote of this year (on a player that never delivered the value implied by that expense anyway) then the loss is much less than you first thought of.'

Smoke and mirrors matey! :-)

[Chartered Accountant (retired) TV Member]

Well actually my comment was in reference to Carmine's 'hit verses FFP' which is the accounting loss

In any event it seems a 'loss' that everyone seems inherently focused on. It would in fact be less than Chelsea's loss over 8 months on AVB for instance in cash terms including wages.

To defend it being less than Chelsea's AVB debarcle isn't much of a defense though is it?

[Abrak]

To defend it being less than Chelsea's AVB debarcle isn't much of a defense though is it?

I wasnt actually making that point.

You were making the point that Carroll could NOT be sold because it would cause too much damage to the bottom line of the accounts.

I was simply pointing out that it wouldnt and that the loss is fairly trivial in accounting terms and relatively small in cash terms compared to the bottomless pits that are Chelsea and City.

[carmine]

To defend it being less than Chelsea's AVB debarcle isn't much of a defense though is it?

I wasnt actually making that point.

You were making the point that Carroll could NOT be sold because it would cause too much damage to the bottom line of the accounts.

I was simply pointing out that it wouldnt and that the loss is fairly trivial in accounting terms and relatively small in cash terms compared to the bottomless pits that are Chelsea and City.

If you want to make that comparison fine ofcourse

Edited April 4, 2012 by carmine

[StevieH]

if you read any of my posts you'll know i'm pretty much in agreemant we you but i just can't agree about Enrique. i'd go as far to say he might well get in the premier league end of season team. ofcourse he's prone to the odd mistake but generally speaking he's played very well.

he was fine until december or so but since then he's been quite a liability. gets pulled about positionally and has this stupid urge to be physical in every challenge, often letting quick players nip round him as he attempts to barge them. he's not been helped by downing being utter gash ahead of him on the left and bellamy being unable to play there regularly etc, but he won't be in any teams of the season.

Can't argue with that as i haven't seen him play much recently. You know when you look at a player like Downing, see the "commitment" and his "workrate" it makes you realise theres only so much a manager can do. KD has made mistakes but i feel he's fundamentally been let down by his players.

yeah i do. but there are also wider questions about who signed these players and why. it's said that kenny has final say on transfers but i'm not sure i believe it. he has a better eye for a player than commoli and a couple of these recent ones just don't seem like dalglish signings.

[carmine]

if you read any of my posts you'll know i'm pretty much in agreemant we you but i just can't agree about Enrique. i'd go as far to say he might well get in the premier league end of season team. ofcourse he's prone to the odd mistake but generally speaking he's played very well.

he was fine until december or so but since then he's been quite a liability. gets pulled about positionally and has this stupid urge to be physical in every challenge, often letting quick players nip round him as he attempts to barge them. he's not been helped by downing being utter gash ahead of him on the left and bellamy being unable to play there regularly etc, but he won't be in any teams of the season.

Can't argue with that as i haven't seen him play much recently. You know when you look at a player like Downing, see the "commitment" and his "workrate" it makes you realise theres only so much a manager can do. KD has made mistakes but i feel he's fundamentally been let down by his players.

yeah i do. but there are also wider questions about who signed these players and why. it's said that kenny has final say on transfers but i'm not sure i believe it. he has a better eye for a player than commoli and a couple of these recent ones just don't seem like dalglish signings.

This has been my opinion all along but about Comolli as you know. No ones going to convince me he's a better judge of footballing talent than Dalglish.

Redknapp might not be everyones cup of tea but he was sensible enough to make it a pre condition that Comolli went before he took over. wenger saw the back of him aswell.

In short i think he'll be sharpening the knife for Dalglish. this is laughable because its clear that dalglish doesn't want to play some of these signings which is exactly the situation Martin Jol found himself in.

[StevieH]

This has been my opinion all along but about Comolli as you know. No ones going to convince me he's a better judge of footballing talent than Dalglish.

Redknapp might not be everyones cup of tea but he was sensible enough to make it a pre condition that Comolli went before he took over. wenger saw the back of him aswell.

In short i think he'll be sharpening the knife for Dalglish. this is laughable because its clear that dalglish doesn't want to play some of these signings which is exactly the situation Martin Jol found himself in.

yeah, i just don't trust commoli really. he doesn't have the heritage in the game as an ex-player or manager to make me believe he is any kind of an 'expert' when it comes to spotting talent. in that regard he's no different from an agent or a 3rd-party owner or whatever. i think he's a networker and a bit of a beancounter - and i just find it impossible to trust the motives of 'businessmen' in football, whatever job titles they have.

[carmine]

This has been my opinion all along but about Comolli as you know. No ones going to convince me he's a better judge of footballing talent than Dalglish.

Redknapp might not be everyones cup of tea but he was sensible enough to make it a pre condition that Comolli went before he took over. wenger saw the back of him aswell.

In short i think he'll be sharpening the knife for Dalglish. this is laughable because its clear that dalglish doesn't want to play some of these signings which is exactly the situation Martin Jol found himself in.

yeah, i just don't trust commoli really. he doesn't have the heritage in the game as an ex-player or manager to make me believe he is any kind of an 'expert' when it comes to spotting talent. in that regard he's no different from an agent or a 3rd-party owner or whatever. i think he's a networker and a bit of a beancounter - and i just find it impossible to trust the motives of 'businessmen' in football, whatever job titles they have.

Agreed. I do want to sound like i'm blowing the Spurs trumpet but basically if you have a true footballing man like KD finding a player you like all you really need is a facilitator like Levy. Add to that Liverpool has the football heritage to still attract the top players. in short, get rid of Comolli, tell KD to find the players "he" wants and over to the deal broker.

I suppose my dislike of Comolli stems from my opinion that he's little more than an oppotunist businessman and all to similar to an agent.

Edited April 4, 2012 by carmine

[Jimjim]

I think Enrique has been in worse form than the start of the season and Downing in better form. He hasn't set the world alight, but he's been better recently, I think. Also, he has created more goal-scoring opportunities than any other player in Europe without getting an assist. So his lack of assists has to do with more bad finishing then his service, clearly. He could have better delivery more often, though, for sure. I think he just hasn't coped with playing at a high-profile club but I still think he has ability to come good. I think at 10 million he would have been a great buy. As it is we've over-payed for almost every signing we've made.

[carmine]

I think Enrique has been in worse form than the start of the season and Downing in better form. He hasn't set the world alight, but he's been better recently, I think. Also, he has created more goal-scoring opportunities than any other player in Europe without getting an assist. So his lack of assists has to do with more bad finishing then his service, clearly. He could have better delivery more often, though, for sure. I think he just hasn't coped with playing at a high-profile club but I still think he has ability to come good. I think at 10 million he would have been a great buy. As it is we've over-payed for almost every signing we've made.

Your best alround signing was Bellamy and i'd be very confident in saying that had more to do with Dalglish.

[smokie36]

The Downing signing reminds me of our own £14m flop winger...the one we're still paying for now.

Give it a couple of years and you won't be able to remember his name either....

[oldgit]

I think Enrique has been in worse form than the start of the season and Downing in better form. He hasn't set the world alight, but he's been better recently, I think. Also, he has created more goal-scoring opportunities than any other player in Europe without getting an assist. So his lack of assists has to do with more bad finishing then his service, clearly. He could have better delivery more often, though, for sure. I think he just hasn't coped with playing at a high-profile club but I still think he has ability to come good. I think at 10 million he would have been a great buy. As it is we've over-payed for almost every signing we've made.

The common denominator regarding the poor signings Dalglish (or Comoli) have made is that Henderson,Carroll,Adam and Downing are British players signed from 'lesser' Premier League clubs,the perceived notion being that they would improve further with a step up to a more high profile club and that they had 'Premier League experience'.What the hell does that mean?

I've heard that phrase uttered a million times from football sages as though it must be a pre requisite for success.First of all,it means you are expected to pay over the odds for average players.Secondly,you are expected to pay exhorbitant wages for average players in an average league.Thirdly,the club's scouting operation spends most of it's time looking for the obvious and not doing it's job properly.Money for old rope.Fourthly,the Premier League is average but,most certainly,the players' agents are not.They are different class.They could sell coal to Newcastle.

Suarez didn't have 'Premier League experience' but came in and adapted straight away.His goal tally could be better but I put that down to poor support from the midfield and the flanks.He looks like he's trying to do it himself, giving the impression he's greedy but I think he's frustrated at the lack of class around him and wants to do it himself.His class is there for all to see.

[Jimjim]

The Downing signing reminds me of our own £14m flop winger...the one we're still paying for now.

Give it a couple of years and you won't be able to remember his name either....

You're a Spurs fan, right?

The one with the last name of a certain luxury car?

Yep, that was a clanger.

I think Downing's better than him though.

I also think the whole "homegrown" crap has inflated prices for English players.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Jimjim

[StevieH]

I suppose my dislike of Comolli stems from my opinion that he's little more than an oppotunist businessman and all to similar to an agent.

yeah spot on man, agree completely with that.

The Downing signing reminds me of our own £14m flop winger...the one we're still paying for now.

Give it a couple of years and you won't be able to remember his name either....

bentley? paid too much at the time but downing always seemed more of a pro than bentley who was a bit of a pretty boy. think both are a case of taking players who've peaked to bigger clubs and they're probably not up to it etc. they have a level and they can't go further. shame. but, to hark back to benitez, they're punts - better to take cheaper punts on foreign players who *might* make it than way overpriced domestic ones.

[SantiSuk]

Its not that surprising that English players cost more than those from overseas. No cultural issue to get to grips with and likely to be more loyal to a club. Foreign stars are way too often a real handful and some of them disappear for two months in January.

[Devil]

By Oliver Holt

Published 22:00 03/04/12

Football is increasingly polarised between those who think sentiment matters and those who think it is for wimps.

Some of us, for instance, think a stadium name is important, that it is an integral part of the history of a club and that it should not be sacrificed to commercialism.

Others think that is bunk and if renaming your ground The *MoreMoney4Us Arena earns a few quid, that’s progress.

Some of us think that if a man gives a large portion of his life, and a larger portion of his soul, to a football club, it owes him *something back.

Others think that is bunk, too.

They live for now. They live without patience. They demand that anything but instant success is met with summary retribution.

So there are plenty of people out there who think Kenny Dalglish is finished as Liverpool boss. The club has lost six games out of the last seven, is eighth in the Premier League and in the midst of its worst run of form since 1953.

Even many Liverpool fans are saying Dalglish is past it, that he’s washed up, a relic of another era, out of touch and out of time.

That’s not my view. My view is coloured by sentiment but I feel no need to apologise for that.

I look at a 61-year old man and I see one of the greatest British footballers that ever lived.

I see someone who won *European Cups for Liverpool and scored the sweetest of winners in the 1978 final at Wembley.

I look at the deepening lines on his face and I think of all the funerals he went to and the unswerving dignity he and his family showed in the aftermath of the Hillsborough Disaster.

I see a man who has subjected himself to intense pressures for the sake of the club and driven himself to the edge of reason. A man who shed tears of joy when Liverpool reached the final of the Carling Cup this season.

And a man who has continued to stand by players like Andy Carroll, even when they have not deserved his support, even when they have repaid him with *obscenities.

I am not forgetting the mistakes he has made.

I thought his handling of the Luis Suarez affair was appalling. And instructing his players to wear Suarez T-shirts, even pulling one on himself, was a shocking misjudgment.

But I do not agree with the idea that the only way Liverpool can move forward is by ridding *themselves of Dalglish this summer.

The opposite is true. The only way they can move forward is by sticking with him.

Because pretty much all *Liverpool have left right now is their history.

After 20 years of living in the shadow of Manchester United, it’s the only thing that allows them to compete.

Dalglish is actually the most powerful weapon they have. He also happens to be a manager who has won the league title with two different clubs.

Sure, Liverpool are having a desperately poor league season. There is no point disputing facts.

But after bringing so many new players in during the summer, many predicted this would be a transitional year anyway.

Carroll, Charlie Adam, Stewart Downing and Jordan Henderson have all been disappointing.

The balance of the side was badly disrupted by the loss of Lucas to injury before Christmas.

And, even if the agony of the Suarez affair was much of their own making, they have played like a team drained of emotional energy in its aftermath.

But *whatever happens in the FA Cup semi-final against Everton a week on Saturday, whatever happens in the rest of Liverpool’s league campaign, Dalglish deserves more time.

Let’s say that again.

He deserves more time. He is owed it.

The Fenway Sports Group, who kept their mouths firmly shut during the Suarez Affair and let Dalglish take all the heat, should remember that when they grill him next month about the club’s performance.

Dalglish is not some rootless mercenary drifting through on the way to another pay-day.

Liverpool means everything to him.

Too many clubs abandon their history. Too many clubs sell their souls. Too many make cold, dull decisions they live to regret.

Dalglish has some tough *decisions to make this summer, most of all on the fate of Carroll.

But I trust him to make them.

It will not be a quick fix but if *Liverpool stick with Dalglish, they will rise again.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[carmine]

I think Oliver Holt is an absolute tool to be honest but i share much of his views in this particular article. i too hope he is given more time I too think he has more than earnt that extra time. i say that as a football fan, nothing more. Say what you want about the man, he has honesty , integrity and is one of the greatest footballers that ever lived.

My concern if i were a liverpool fan is that he really is no longer longer fully up to the job and what would be paramount to me is that if he goes it is done in the correct manner and with his dignity in mind.

[StevieH]

I think Oliver Holt is an absolute tool to be honest

couldn't agree more. he's an idiot and a crap journalist.

[rixalex]

Say what you want about the man, he has honesty

So you think that Carroll stumbled too?

[MrRed]

I think Oliver Holt is an absolute tool to be honest

couldn't agree more. he's an idiot and a crap journalist.

So you don't agree with his article,that amazes me! I would like to hold your hand as i walk you through every sentence and here your reply lol!!

You are what it is aimed at Stevie,a reality check is needed if you don't agree with most of his musings.

[sharecropper]

I think Oliver Holt is an absolute tool to be honest

couldn't agree more. he's an idiot and a crap journalist.

So you don't agree with his article,that amazes me! I would like to hold your hand as i walk you through every sentence and here your reply lol!!

You are what it is aimed at Stevie,a reality check is needed if you don't agree with most of his musings.

What's not to object to in that article, even by the most myopic fan? i think it is too sympathetic really.

[rijit]

A s a spurs fan ive got to say that buying Bentley at the time seemed a good idea, he 'd bust his way into the england squad had a fab 2 ? years with hughes at blackburn and topped some great displays by scoring a few stunners and at the time we had no one who could x a ball, lennon at the time couldnt x a ball to save his life, probably a bit harsh,and we paid to much ,jol had a vision and he fitted an option of play he wanted to use. a change of manager and few untimely injuries, and where does he end up , well who knows, but thats life

As for king kenny, this run of form isnt good, but it will get better , but as for a jumped up little french pric telling kenny which players to have !! really can u imagine it, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!! kennies old enuf school to demand final say.

Its been a hard season for your new players , barring bellamy it's a new step up for them , some can adapt and to others a step up wont be that easy, perhaps we will see the best of them next season. As for gettin rid of kenny, now theres no point, he's just won u a cup ure still in the fa cup, loads enuf to be happy with, but I forgot ure Liverpool and the expectation is high, probably a burden u could do without at the mo.

[carmine]

I think Oliver Holt is an absolute tool to be honest

couldn't agree more. he's an idiot and a crap journalist.

So you don't agree with his article,that amazes me! I would like to hold your hand as i walk you through every sentence and here your reply lol!!

You are what it is aimed at Stevie,a reality check is needed if you don't agree with most of his musings.

Now far be it from me to enter into this Utd/Liverpool "debate" but it does appear to me that the utd posters are a bit hung up on liverpool and i sense a lingering inferiority complex that even the achievements of ferguson hasn't managed to fully diminish!

Every dog has its day. we were playing football way beyond its time under Bill Nicholson, then Liverpool had the Shankly, Paisley era now Utd's will shortly be coming to an end as ferguson draws nearer to retirement. west ham are beginning an Allardyce era.........

What i do wonder though is, with a few notable exeptions is football management becoming a younger mans job these days?.

[sharecropper]

Now far be it from me to enter into this Utd/Liverpool "debate" but it does appear to me that the utd posters are a bit hung up on liverpool and i sense a lingering inferiority complex that even the achievements of ferguson hasn't managed to fully diminish!

Every dog has its day. we were playing football way beyond its time under Bill Nicholson, then Liverpool had the Shankly, Paisley era now Utd's will shortly be coming to an end as ferguson draws nearer to retirement. west ham are beginning an Allardyce era.........

What i do wonder though is, with a few notable exeptions is football management becoming a younger mans job these days?.

I think it is, and the enormous pressure managers are under in the Premier League particularly, must wreak havoc with health and family. It's a wonder more managers don't have heart attacks. At least fans can go home and kick the dog, have a beer and hope for the best next week, but managers must find it impossible to turn off at all times of the day and night.

[MrRed]

I think Oliver Holt is an absolute tool to be honest

couldn't agree more. he's an idiot and a crap journalist.

So you don't agree with his article,that amazes me! I would like to hold your hand as i walk you through every sentence and here your reply lol!!

You are what it is aimed at Stevie,a reality check is needed if you don't agree with most of his musings.

Now far be it from me to enter into this Utd/Liverpool "debate" but it does appear to me that the utd posters are a bit hung up on liverpool and i sense a lingering inferiority complex that even the achievements of ferguson hasn't managed to fully diminish!

Every dog has its day. we were playing football way beyond its time under Bill Nicholson, then Liverpool had the Shankly, Paisley era now Utd's will shortly be coming to an end as ferguson draws nearer to retirement. west ham are beginning an Allardyce era.........

What i do wonder though is, with a few notable exeptions is football management becoming a younger mans job these days?.

Carmine if we where dominant for another 20 years it wouldn't change a thing...we just hate Liverpool being a southern softie you will never understand the rivalry,Spurs and the Arse is kindergarden stuff

[smokie36]

Now far be it from me to enter into this Utd/Liverpool "debate" but it does appear to me that the utd posters are a bit hung up on liverpool and i sense a lingering inferiority complex that even the achievements of ferguson hasn't managed to fully diminish!

Every dog has its day. we were playing football way beyond its time under Bill Nicholson, then Liverpool had the Shankly, Paisley era now Utd's will shortly be coming to an end as ferguson draws nearer to retirement. west ham are beginning an Allardyce era.........

What i do wonder though is, with a few notable exeptions is football management becoming a younger mans job these days?.

I think it is, and the enormous pressure managers are under in the Premier League particularly, must wreak havoc with health and family. It's a wonder more managers don't have heart attacks. At least fans can go home and kick the dog, have a beer and hope for the best next week, but managers must find it impossible to turn off at all times of the day and night.

Haha love that....AVB anyone!

I think older managers have a bit more perspective mate.

[carmine]

REPLY to #8876

What a load of b*llocks.

btw, most of your "fans" are southerners (or canadians) who simply like a prawn sandwich and a winning team.

[carmine]

interesting article in todays Guardian. its in defense of Andy carroll.

can't be bothered to C&P it. you know where it is if you want to read it. the bit that interested me was relating to a striker being brought up in the Liverpool mould.

Should more be done to make it work with the lad?

[carmine]

interesting article in todays Guardian. its in defense of Andy carroll.

can't be bothered to C&P it. you know where it is if you want to read it. the bit that interested me was relating to a striker being brought up in the Liverpool mould.

Should more be done to make it work with the lad?