Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

are we allowed to laugh at cronaldo in here fantastic piece of stunt driving crashing his ferrari in a tunnel after skidding on ice (ice in a tunnel )

the car is a write of so it must have been at fairly high speed, but a witness said he saw the greaseball get out of his car and walk away from the crash, however if mike riley had been nearby we would have seen all manner of theatrics rolling around on the floor and in need of an ambulance

if he'd bought the farm i'd have gone out and got hammered.

[bkkjames]

are we allowed to laugh at cronaldo in here fantastic piece of stunt driving crashing his ferrari in a tunnel after skidding on ice (ice in a tunnel )

the car is a write of so it must have been at fairly high speed, but a witness said he saw the greaseball get out of his car and walk away from the crash, however if mike riley had been nearby we would have seen all manner of theatrics rolling around on the floor and in need of an ambulance

if he'd bought the farm i'd have gone out and got hammered.

karma is a wonderful thing stevie, hope mr torres keeps his head up this weekend

[StevieH]

karma is a wonderful thing stevie, hope mr torres keeps his head up this weekend

i'm an atheist james mate. don't believe in karma. i do believe in the mockers though.

not sure torres is going to play tomorrow to be honest. he might be on the bench again.

[bkkjames]

karma is a wonderful thing stevie, hope mr torres keeps his head up this weekend

i'm an atheist james mate. don't believe in karma. i do believe in the mockers though.

not sure torres is going to play tomorrow to be honest. he might be on the bench again.

with or without him, pretty sure you will handle the stokies though.

[Devil]

Interesting interview linked below with Raffa, talking about injuries, performance and his views ( Agger left back)

Youtube link

Should be a win against stoke, The consensus seems to be Stoke will be more open at home allowing us to exploit the space. Anyway considering we had 36 shots on their goal in our last meeting I hope we have a field day.

We could go 6 clear at the top this weekend if Man U,Chelsea cancel each other out! That should be a good game.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Devil

[Jimjim]

It'd be 5 clear if they cancel each other out. It'd be 6 if Chelsea lose, but I don't think we want that as it keeps Man U one off pace if they win their games in hand, which I think is a big if as games in hand have a habit of being tough to win.

[bkkjames]

It'd be 5 clear if they cancel each other out. It'd be 6 if Chelsea lose, but I don't think we want that as it keeps Man U one off pace if they win their games in hand, which I think is a big if as games in hand have a habit of being tough to win.

keep telling yourself that mate if it makes you sleep better at night

[StevieH]

i want a chelsea win against the glams but can't see it happening. will take a draw now. and a load of broken legs and cruciates. and a 22-man brawl resulting in loads of red cards.

[bkkjames]

i want a chelsea win against the glams but can't see it happening. will take a draw now. and a load of broken legs and cruciates. and a 22-man brawl resulting in loads of red cards.

spanish ref anyone?

[StevieH]

spanish ref anyone?

si por favor. but steve bennett is more than capable of that.

[Jimjim]

It'd be 5 clear if they cancel each other out. It'd be 6 if Chelsea lose, but I don't think we want that as it keeps Man U one off pace if they win their games in hand, which I think is a big if as games in hand have a habit of being tough to win.

keep telling yourself that mate if it makes you sleep better at night

You'll be crying in May.

[StevieH]

wow. about time someone pointed out that mister ferguson operates with impunity.

[The Vulcan]

wow. about time someone pointed out that mister ferguson operates with impunity.

Should be posted as a seperate topic to get EVERYBODY'S response - would be quite interesting methinks.

I know what I think!

[redscouse]

Well said rafa, it's about time someone spoke out against old red nose.

here is a transcript of rafas comments, it will make it easier for people to quote

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I was surprised by what has been said, but maybe they (Manchester United) are nervous because we are at the top of the table.

"But I want to talk about facts. I want to be clear, I do not want to play mind games too early, although they seem to want to start.

"But I have seen some facts. On November 1, they played Hull and Mr Ferguson had a two-match touchline ban and a £10,000 fine after confronting Mike Dean, the referee, for improper conduct.

"We started the Respect campaign, and that was when (Javier) Mascherano was sent off (last season) at Old Trafford.

"The referee (Steve Bennett) was the referee when they played against Wigan - he could not see the handball against Wigan by Rio Ferdinand, he did not give a penalty. They won the game and they won the title in this game.

"I think it will be the same referee who will be in charge of their game in hand this season (against Wigan).

"During the Respect campaign - and this is a fact - Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett.

"He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things.

"Then he was talking about the fixtures. Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays. And we didn't say anything.

"Now he is complaining about everything, that everybody is against United. But the second half of the season will see them playing at home against all the teams at the top of the table, it is a fantastic advantage.

"But at Christmas, United played on the 29th and the rest of the teams played on the 28th. We were away against Newcastle two days after playing Bolton. They were playing about 40 hours later, they were not complaining then.

"And about his behaviour with referees. The Southampton manager he knows how Mr Ferguson works and how he works, he was very clear. I am not playing mind games, just facts.

"If he wants to talk about fixtures, and have a level playing field as you say in England. There are two options if we don't want more problems with fixtures.

"One is the same as in Spain, the draw for the first part of the league is known, everyone knows which weekend. In the second-half everyone plays the opposite, so you all know.

"Sky and Setanta have the right to choose their games and it will be the same for everyone. So Mr Ferguson will not be complaining about fixtures and a campaign against United.

"Or there is another option. That Mr Ferguson organises the fixtures in his office and sends it to us and everyone will know and cannot complain. That is simple.

"We know what happens every time we go to Old Trafford and the United staff. They are always going man to man with the referees, especially at half-time when they walk close to the referees and they are talking and talking.

"All managers need to know is that only Mr Ferguson can talk about the fixtures, can talk about referees and nothing happens.

"We need to know that I am taking about facts, not my impression. There are things that everyone can see every single week.

"Are they under pressure? Maybe they were not thinking that we would be at the top of the table in January. But we are at the top of the table and they are nervous.

"I am not telling the authorities what to do. But I have been here for five years and know how things are going on. I will be watching United's game with Chelsea.

"The result does not matter to us, if we win at Stoke that result does not matter.

"I was surprised United wanted to start the mind games too early, maybe it is because we are top of the table. But I only wanted to explain our position.

"It is a massive difference to play early on a Saturday, say, after a European match in midweek.

"But they will play the second half of the season with home matches against the other top teams, and that is a massive advantage to them.

"They cannot complain about the fixtures after they were playing on December 29 while the rest played on the 28th.

"I have decided that I had a lot of information and I have been watching every single week what has been going on. Then they started talking about us, but every single week we know they will be talking.

"But we want to stay at the top and maybe they will talk about us right to the end.

"To hear someone talking when he has problems with referees every single week, and now complaining about the fixtures and complaining about everything, I think that is not fair.

"You can see every single week how they put (referees) under pressure, we know this. We have seen it before. We have seen players sent off at Old Trafford and we do not see our opponents sent off.

"It is part of the game. But to complain and to always have an advantage is not fair.

"We had a meeting in Manchester with managers and FA about the Respect campaign. And I was very clear, forget the campaign because Mr Ferguson was killing the referees, killing Mr Atkinson, killing Mr Hackett.

"But he is not punished. How can you talk about the respect campaign and criticise the referee every single week?

"You can analyse the facts and come to your own decision and ideas

"There is still no news about my contract, my agent has not received any documents so he is a little bit disappointed. But we will see.

"I would rather not talk too much about this, though, when we have an important game ahead.

[redscouse]

Taken from Fanzone in the The Times

Arise Sir Rafael Benitez

Was that the funniest press conference you're ever likely to see?

To all those media hacks trying to compare it with Keegan's rant at Ferguson and accusing Rafa of taking the bait; step back and think about it for a change. It is nothing like the rant of a broken man like Keegan, who had seen his side squander a healthy lead at the top of the table, reacting to the provocation and mind games from the purple nosed one. It is not taking any bait from Ferguson and signs of losing the plot, as Ferguson hasn't said anything for Rafa to react to. How can he take the bait if there isn't any there? He knew exactly what he was saying. A man losing the plot and reacting does not have a sheet full of notes to hand! He's casting the bait for Mr.Ferguson to bite on.

Rafael Benitez has spoken out this afternoon and said the things that everyone else has been too scared to say before. Everyone thinks it, but nobody has the balls to stand up and say it; until now. Well done Rafael Benitez. Alex Ferguson has been intimidating referees and the authorities for too long with nobody daring to stand up to him, and we now have a manager prepared to do just that. We've waited long enough!

It does hurt and scare them down the east lancs that we sit top of the table, and could be 10 points clear of them by Saturday night. It scares them to see a Liverpool side that sit clear at the top and can only become stronger with the return of Fernando Torres. It scares them that come May we could be sat back on the perch Ferguson always wanted to knock us off. They're scared, make no mistake about it.

And on that note, it's about time we stopped worrying about the fall from grace and being overtaken at the top. What about belief and desire, something Benitez has shown in abundance this afternoon. He's been very, very clever with his words today, putting pressure on the referee before the game with Chelsea on Sunday in a very astute manner. Something Ferguson and Mourinho have been masters at for the past few years. It's refreshing to see our manager ruffling a few feathers. The season starts here.

We're in there fighting and that press conference this afternoon is the music to my ears as we enter the ring. This is where it all begins.

He's timed it to perfect. A calculated swipe on the eve of what could be the defining weekend of the season. We've just got to go out an beat Stoke now to see whether today's press conference has any affect on the Sunday.

And the greatest thing about the interview? The simple slip of the tongue that highlights the humour and mindset of Rafael Benitez? Referring to him and Mr.Ferguson instead of Sir. The work of a genius. Simple yet blunt. Dismissing the stature of the man with the exchange of one word. Brilliant.

Our manager has started playing games this afternoon that may or may not have an affect on games, and ultimately the destination of the league title, but he's brought a smile to my face anway. Thank you Rafa.

Take the pressure off Gerrard. Take the pressure off Keane. Take the pressure off the side and putting it all upon himself and the referee before Sunday.

I doff my cap sir.

Paul Jones

[redscouse]

Rafa comes to his next press conference fully prepared

from RAWK

[Jimjim]

Is that your image? Hilarious.

[Sparkles]

wow. about time someone pointed out that mister ferguson operates with impunity.

Hasn't Fergie recently spent 2 weeks in the stands and was fined 10,000 pounds for his criticism of Hackett of the Referees Association. Benitez is making a bit of a goose of himself and falling through the proverbial trap door

[Sparkles]

Taken from Fanzone in the The Times

Arise Sir Rafael Benitez

Was that the funniest press conference you're ever likely to see?

To all those media hacks trying to compare it with Keegan's rant at Ferguson and accusing Rafa of taking the bait; step back and think about it for a change. It is nothing like the rant of a broken man like Keegan, who had seen his side squander a healthy lead at the top of the table, reacting to the provocation and mind games from the purple nosed one. It is not taking any bait from Ferguson and signs of losing the plot, as Ferguson hasn't said anything for Rafa to react to. How can he take the bait if there isn't any there? He knew exactly what he was saying. A man losing the plot and reacting does not have a sheet full of notes to hand! He's casting the bait for Mr.Ferguson to bite on.

Rafael Benitez has spoken out this afternoon and said the things that everyone else has been too scared to say before. Everyone thinks it, but nobody has the balls to stand up and say it; until now. Well done Rafael Benitez. Alex Ferguson has been intimidating referees and the authorities for too long with nobody daring to stand up to him, and we now have a manager prepared to do just that. We've waited long enough!

It does hurt and scare them down the east lancs that we sit top of the table, and could be 10 points clear of them by Saturday night. It scares them to see a Liverpool side that sit clear at the top and can only become stronger with the return of Fernando Torres. It scares them that come May we could be sat back on the perch Ferguson always wanted to knock us off. They're scared, make no mistake about it.

And on that note, it's about time we stopped worrying about the fall from grace and being overtaken at the top. What about belief and desire, something Benitez has shown in abundance this afternoon. He's been very, very clever with his words today, putting pressure on the referee before the game with Chelsea on Sunday in a very astute manner. Something Ferguson and Mourinho have been masters at for the past few years. It's refreshing to see our manager ruffling a few feathers. The season starts here.

We're in there fighting and that press conference this afternoon is the music to my ears as we enter the ring. This is where it all begins.

He's timed it to perfect. A calculated swipe on the eve of what could be the defining weekend of the season. We've just got to go out an beat Stoke now to see whether today's press conference has any affect on the Sunday.

And the greatest thing about the interview? The simple slip of the tongue that highlights the humour and mindset of Rafael Benitez? Referring to him and Mr.Ferguson instead of Sir. The work of a genius. Simple yet blunt. Dismissing the stature of the man with the exchange of one word. Brilliant.

Our manager has started playing games this afternoon that may or may not have an affect on games, and ultimately the destination of the league title, but he's brought a smile to my face anway. Thank you Rafa.

Take the pressure off Gerrard. Take the pressure off Keane. Take the pressure off the side and putting it all upon himself and the referee before Sunday.

I doff my cap sir.

Paul Jones

Well if that the "funniest " press conference you have seen I would suggest you havn't seen to many.

[Jimjim]

Tell it to Paul Jones, Sparkles.

Game over. fuc_k.

[kopite]

Tell it to Paul Jones, Sparkles.

Game over. fuc_k.

talk about pessimistic. how the f*** is it game over, stop looking over yer shoulder and look ahead, and paul jones happens to be one of the biggest kopites about nowadays. a true red, a true kopite.

if the mancs win all three and we slip up against teh bitters then maybe its time to be worried.

this post from the rattle sums it up,

There are a maximum of 114 points available in any season.

Anywhere between 85 and 90 points usually wins you the league (or gets you pretty close) and you can call it a 'good season'.

You will notice that if you subtract 85 from 114, you are left with a figure of 29 points - this is the number of points a team having an excellent season is going to drop.

That means, my knee-jerking, pessimistic friends , is that EVERY TEAM WILL DROP QUITE A FEW POINTS DURING A SEASON.It's not a reason to panic or make outlandish posts on the internet. It's a time to shrug your shoulders, say 'that was <deleted>' and look forward to the next game.

Onwards and upwards.

[Sparkles]

wow. about time someone pointed out that mister ferguson operates with impunity.

Hasn't Fergie recently spent 2 weeks in the stands and was fined 10,000 pounds for his criticism of Hackett of the Referees Association. Benitez is making a bit of a goose of himself and falling through the proverbial trap door

I wrote that post before the game and after watching the game it proves you dont have to have a long neck to be a goose. Rafa should concentrate on preparing and choosing his side rather than going to a press conference with reams of notes to have a go at a fellow manager.

I dont know what you Liverpool fans think of Lucas .he must be related to Rafa to get a place in that side .I notice on the BBC Player rater he achieved a 2.9 thats about the lowest personal rating I have ever seen and still was not replaced. Torres and Keane on the bench with Kuyt playing a lone role up front ,how adventurous from Rafa when you are playing a team lying third from the bottom.Rafa will now have to pray Man U and Chelsea draw to retain the status quo.Rafa silence is golden, get on with the job you are paid to do and leave the sledging to the media who are far better equipped than your good self.

[Jimjim]

talk about pessimistic. how the f*** is it game over, stop looking over yer shoulder and look ahead, and paul jones happens to be one of the biggest kopites about nowadays. a true red, a true kopite.

if the mancs win all three and we slip up against teh bitters then maybe its time to be worried.

Wow, you completely misread that or read a lot into it that wasn't there. I was talking about the Stoke game being over and how frustrated I was by it. Horrible match considering the last two displays. I did not mean game over in the season. As for Paul Jones, I was referring the poster I cited to respond to him, not to the one who posted those words of Paul Jones as that's kind of pointless.

I still believe Liverpool can win it and thought today would be an emphatic win to show their true intent and possibly increase the lead by 6, but they have had far too many draws the last 10 matches, and need to start going on winning streaks of at least 4 and 5 to hold back those below. I thought we were back on track but I hope this is just a bump in the road.

Edit: Also, you would find I am probably the least likely fan to say it's game over at this time of the season and panic at every draw or loss. I was merely reporting my frustration with one match only. Because of this recent draw all the naysayers will come out and say Liverpool cannot be champions, but I say wait and see where we are after the Chelsea match. We could still be top and leading all the media to say, "I'm so surprised at Liverpool (because I hate them and thought that my hate meant they would never win a league title again)." Most pundits suck balls and just like to come out with strong statements to be more interesting. It's not interesting to me, it's just stupid.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Jimjim

[samuibeachcomber]

am not a liverpool supporter.watched the game last night.now stoke can be a difficult team to beat,but what happened to liverpool yesterday?

Stevie gerarrd looked like he had other things on his mind(maybe he has),where was alonso?and why just play kuiyt upfront?

And my big question...............what is the problem between benitez and keane/keane is continually being left on the bench?you guys got any answers!

[Jimjim]

Keane is not continually left on the bench. He still starts sometimes and I think he should have started today. Don't know why. True enough he hasn't played the last two league matches at all. There is no problem between them, that's just Benitez. Sometimes his selection is a mystery and he seems to love Kuyt no matter what form he's in, and I think Kuyt's form is not so good now. He was great earlier in the season. Kind of the opposite to Keane. Keane seems in good form yet is not playing. He did play last week in the FA Cup. I bet he'll back in next week.

The answer to today was they just sucked. Gerrard played fine last week with "things on his mind" so I think that's bullshit, it was just a tough game against a tough opponent and they need to elevate their game and didn't. Lucas was great against Newcastle but simply sucked today. Mascherano was not as imposing as he could be, and Gerrard didn't see enough of the ball. I don't know all the reasons why, but I know they didn't play well. They have done this before this season and always bounced back so I'm expecting a win next week.

As to formation, Gerrard is basically a striker in that formation so he was up front with Kuyt. You may not know that the last year Liverpool have had great success and scored plenty of goals with that formation. It wasn't the formation except maybe it was the fact it was Kuyt up front as the lead man. Torres works well in that formation, Kuyt doesn't. Kuyt needs a more natural striker with him when plays up front, I think. He isn't a great lead striker, he plays better being level with another striker or behind.

[Devil]

We only had 7 goal attempts compared with the 36 attempts we had when we played them at home. Most talk is about Raffa's selection, formation and why Keane was on the bench again.

I just thought that all the players out there let the side down as we just didn't seem to be able to control the game for long periods. Regardless of selection I would of expected the team put out could and should of beaten Stoke.

It was an average performance and our midfield especially had a really bad day, possibly the worst I have seen in a while.

Obviously Alonso is going to be crucial to us challenging for the title this year, hope he is back soon and continues his great form.

Positives - We got a point and it was good to see the likes of Aurelio and Skrtel back from injury. Lets hope we can put that performance behind us and crack on.

YNWA

[redscouse]

no point in even trying to make excuses for that crock of <deleted> last night, poor selection and poor performance. How the hel_l we expect to win games with kuyt as a lone striker is beyond me, lets not forget this is the guy who was shifted wide right because his play up front in far from prolific. all this whilst torres and keane sat on the bench, again the change was made too late and the changes made were not the right ones.

very very poor

[redscouse]

Tell it to Paul Jones, Sparkles.

Game over. fuc_k.

yeah jim, some people should read the post and understand the content and who sent it before trying to score brownie points, i was very clear in pointing out who it was from

[Jimjim]

Exactly, redscouse, was just a simple thing.

As for Kuyt, I disagree about why he was moved out right last year. It's because Rafa didn't have anybody else he wanted out there consistently and thought Kuyt was versatile enough to fill in there. You can disagree if you think Pennant or Bennayoun would be better there consistently, but I think that's the reason. Also I think he wanted Gerrard in behind the striker and Torres is the best striker in the world so nobody would be picked over him as a lone front man (except against Stoke, but nobody should have expected him to start as he's still coming back from injury and as it's been a nagging one they're bringing him back slow, which reporters like the one who wrote the game summary for Setanta sadly failed to notice).

But yes, I really think Keane should have been picked over Kuyt. But then again, I'm not the manager. With Kuyt as lead striker we've won against Blackburn, Portsmouth and Newcastle, and drawn against Hull and Stoke. Of course the match against Newcastle turned out to be great. However, he has not scored in any of those matches so I'm not sure what good he does. Against Newcastle he did good fighting to get headers and holding the ball up but I think he's really better as a right mid player, and he scores more from there.

[Devil]

I think the problem was our midfield in this game end of story, we just didn't create chances even if we had of started with two strikers. I am not sure it would of solved the problem to open up Stoke... Even in the previous games we drew this season we always created loads of chances from midfield and from our wide players.

When Alonso has played in the middle it has changed the way we play drastically this season. It seems Gerrard also gets more of the ball and involved in the game with Alonso covering. Also our wide players get more of the ball as a result his distribution.

That's one area I think we need another option when Alonso is not playing or injured. We don't have anyone who can distribute the ball and help defend like he does (only Gerrard)

Anyway Torres will be back to match fitness soon which will be interesting to see if Raffa will be tempted to start the Keane & Torres partnership again.

We are still in a great position, players are coming back from injury (nearly a full squad now) and I really think we will be there towards the end. Who knows we may go on to win this thing called the league