High Power Usage By Split Air Con

[Pib]

Just FYI...it pays to keep your split A/C clean….and I mean both the compressor/condenser outside unit and the evaporator inside unit.

Last Friday when I got my electric bill I was shocked by the price as it was about 20% higher than normal…not due to higher cost per KWH but because I had used approx 20% more KWH than I normally do. Yes, the last 30 days has been hot and we have been using our A/Cs a lot, but so was the 30 days before that…I was just using a lot more electricity than normal….my highest bill ever (my secret) with no close second bill.

I immediately suspected one of the downstairs York 18.6K BTU A/Cs…specifically the one that runs pretty much 24/7 since recently it didn’t seem to be blowing as cool of air as before when holding my hand up next to the output vent but I had been too lazy to get out my digital thermometer to take a temp reading of the air output. So, I got out my thermometer, inserted it a few inches into the vent, and it was only blowing approx 60F and I remembered it blowing around 50-55F last year when I checked the vent output temp. I also got out my trusty clamp-on ammeter and went to my home’s power cable entrance to measure household amperage draw. OK, with all the A/Cs turned off and just some lights, fans, one small TV on, some other electronic stuff in standby mode, etc., I was pulling 3 amps….this 3A would be my reference point. I then tuned on the suspected A/C and I was now getting a 15A draw after a few minutes…subtract the 3A and that means the split A/C was pulling 12A. The A/C spec’s label said it should pull 8.61A (inside and outside unit combined). Wow…the A/C was pulling 40% more amps/power than nominal.

I happen to have another identical York 18.6 BTU split A/C ….I checked it amps pull and it was approx 8A…below its nominal 8.61A rating and it was blowing cooler air. I then checked an upstairs 23K BTU/9.64A A/C and it was pulling 9A and cooling just fine. The next day I pulled out the ladder and climbed up to the suspected outside compressor unit…everything looked OK…cooling fan motor ran fine….”even the condenser/compressor coils” look clean enough as I could see daylight through the coils/fins. Plus the inside evaporator unit was clean with clean filters. At this point I figure it must be a failing compressor or maybe low freon causing the high current draw.

We make an appt for A/C maintenance to come visit. They arrived today, I explained the problem to include the clamp-on ammeter readings, they use their clamp-on ammeter to verify the high current draw, and check the Freon pressure. They only check the low pressure side and it was 65psi…I asked what is the acceptable pressure range and they said 60-75psi. The maintenance guy then said with confidence the problem was dirty compressor (condenser) unit coils/fins and they needed cleaning with a pressure washer and not just a water hose. Well, since the mx guy is 10 foot up in the air on the ladder (the unit is mounted high up on the outside house wall) I told him I just happen to have a pressure washer. We hooked it up, he did the cleaning with the pressure washer and plenty of dirt did seem to get washed out. We then fired the A/C back up and he was right….the current draw was way down and now only 8A…even below the nominal 8.61A rating….and after about 5 minutes the evaporator inside unit is blowing vent air at 48F (was blowing only approx 60F earlier) when set at 25C/77F with an outside temp of 92F.

I was a little surprised the cleaning of the compressor/condenser fins made such a huge difference especially since they really didn’t look dirty to me….as mentioned the unit was mounted 10 foot up on the wall away from ground-level dirt, bugs, etc., so it’s just got dirty from 5 years of being in use and sucking air through it. Sure I know keeping your inside unit evaporator unit coils/fins/filters clean (I clean the evaporator units once a year and clean the filters every few months) can make a very significant cooling difference and I know your outside compressor/condenser unit coils/fins need to be keep clean also. But as I mentioned I had just looked at the compressor/condenser fins a few days ago and they looked more than clean enough to me….looked just as clean as my other A/Cs that don’t get used that much and were cooling fine/pulling normal amps, plus I could see plenty of daylight when looking through the fins….but I will admit it was a quick look.

But hey, the A/C guy was right on target….the 5 minutes of cleaning with the pressure washer made a dramatic difference in power draw…makes the compressor work less hard therefore drawing less current. And I can already tell from 6 days of electric usage since I stopped using the suspected A/C (but using another identical sized one in its place) that my daily electric usage has dropped approx 22% per day which was another confirmation the suspected/dirty A/C was the power hog. Now, that the dirty A/C has been cleaned and back to pulling normal amps and providing better cooling it’s back in use….I’ve checked the amps draws several times over the last 6 hours and it hanging in there with an 8A draw…where it use to be 12A.

Cost for the service call and cleaning B1000….I’m in Bangkok. Wish I had paid more attention to the reduced cooling a month ago and I wouldn’t have set a new all time high for the number of KWH I use and the associated electric bill. Plus, I’m smarter now about using my clamp-on ammeter to check if I have an A/C drawing more power than it should. Yeap, it pays to keep your split A/C clean (inside and outside units)…preaching to the choir I know. I’ve already checked the amps draw on my other A/C units and they are all below the amps draw rating on their spec label which indicates they are operating/cooling fine. So, hopefully, I won’t be setting a new all time high electric bill for the coming month…and over the coming weeks I’m going to personally give all my remaining compressor units a washing with my pressure washer just be sure they are clean---well, really just to help avoid another electric bill shock.

[isawasnake]

There was just a thread on this a couple of weeks ago. I, by the way, mentioned how important it was to keep those fins on the high pressure side clean (patting self on back) lol. That really is where most of the energy usage is though, so it makes sense.

Edited April 25, 2013 by isawasnake

[Pib]

Well, me, my ladder, and my pressure washer cleaned the remaining 6 compressor/condenser units yesterday....the units have been in use for little over 5 years...well, maybe saying "in use" is not the most accurate description since most have had little use. Anyway, the ones which have had little use very definitely still pretty clean both from a pre-wash visual inspection and then watching how much dirt come out when putting the pressure washer to them. Only 1 of the 6 has some significantly dirt come out from the coils/fins...and that was the A/C for the master bedroom that gets used every night...but even with some significant dirt coming out it was working fine and after the cleaning still pulled the same amperage and I couldn't tell any cooling difference. I guess with little use which means little dirt being flowed through the coils/fins to gunk them up along with some rainy season cleaning action, the compressor/condenser coils should stay pretty clean for a long time (i.e, more than a couple of years).

I expect there is a point in "dirtiness" where the cooling efficiency/amperage draw rapidly changes but until you reach that level of dirtiness which excessively limits air flow through the coils/fins the A/C operates at normal efficiency. And my 7th compressor/condenser talked about in the opening post, the one pretty much used 24/7 for the last 5 years, it is still working fine in terms of cooling and amperage draw since it was cleaned.

I've made a note to myself to clean my compressor/condenser units approx. every two years based on my cleaning results...plus, as mentioned in my earlier post all of my units are located about half-way up the house which makes it a little tough to get to with a pressure washer...if they were ground level I would clean them yearly.

[Naam]

one caveat though Pib! condenser fins bend easily if too much pressure (too close) is applied or the rinsing is done not aiming straight and parallel with the fins. in case of some mishap look what combs your Old Lady has and select an appropriate one to comb bent fins straight.

[Chao Lao Beach]

What about the motor for the fan, it look very exposed on the Mitsubishi?

[Pib]

one caveat though Pib! condenser fins bend easily if too much pressure (too close) is applied or the rinsing is done not aiming straight and parallel with the fins. in case of some mishap look what combs your Old Lady has and select an appropriate one to comb bent fins straight.

Yeap...I learned that through the school of hard knocks about 15 years ago when cleaning the coils/fins on my previous home's central air evaporator (a York model)...but I had one of those combs (and still have) to fix things. I've found the fins on an evaporator (inside unit) are much more prone to easy bending than the fins on a condenser (outside unit). During the pressure washer cleaning I paid particular attention to "if any bending" was occurring--no bending occurring as I was using a fan pattern spray straight at the fins as much as possible and where I couldn't spray directly into the fins I made sure the angle of the spraying was not doing any bending. And on these particular York split air models I think I would have had to have had a hammer to bend any of the fins...much, much stiffer fins on the evaporator and condenser than what was on my York central air system at my previous home. Cheers.

[Pib]

What about the motor for the fan, it look very exposed on the Mitsubishi?

The fan motor on the outside unit (compressor/condenser) on any split air brand is very exposed but the motor is made tough and sealed to be water resistant. With the fan motor just a few inches behind the fan blade and fan blade protection grille, water can easily reach it especially when not running...but when running the motor blows air outwards from the unit which also helps to keep the rain water out....or if the unit is at ground level the passing dog who decided to pee on it. But as mentioned, even if not turned on and it's raining like hell or you use the water hose on it, the fan motor is built to keep out the rain/water, bugs, etc. Usually when a fan motor fails it's due to dried-up bearings....and on some models there may be a startup/run capacitor that fails but such a failure is probably not due to water intrusion; it's just due to simple failure/old age/heat/cheapness of the capacitor.

[Pib]

One more tidbit about improving the cooling capability and helping to reduce power usage on a split air system: keep the squirrel cage fan/blower clean on the evaporator (inside unit). You know, that spinning thing you can see through the evaporator louvers/vent outlet but is kinda hard to get to.

One sign the squirrel cage fan may too much dirt/gunk on it is simply by moving your hand slowly in front and completely across the louvers/air vent outlet...you should feel air blowing on your hand all the way across the louvers outlet...the amount of air hitting you hand probably won't feel even but you should still feel air hitting your hand all the way across the vent outlet; otherwise, the fan may be too dirty. A fan that is too dirty can also cause the fan to give off a varying speed sound every few seconds like a rising and falling pitch instead of a steady sound level (not to be confused with the normal changing of fan speed if set to Auto speed....but these Auto speed changes don't occur every few seconds like you seem to hear from a dirty squirrel cage fan).

In doing this test be sure you have any air direction flaps in the vent outlet set to blow straight forward. If you don't feel good air outlet all the way across the louvers there is a good chance part of the squirrel cage blower has too much gunk on (or in) it. Now while a dirty evaporator coils/fins or filters could cause the same problem, there is a good chance it's the squirrel cage fan is just too dirty. I have found my one split air that runs pretty much 24/7 needs to be cleaned every 6 months or so as the squirrel cage fan gets fairly gunky/dirty...and if I wait a year to clean it the air flow output becomes very uneven and reduced...and I get the varying sound pitch as it spins. With a clean fan blower you get more air flow going through your evaporator unit and more cool air being blown into the room....good things for better and cheaper cooling.

Although the squirrel cage blower is recessed and behind the louver flaps a person can still do a pretty good and fast cleaning job by using a simple and cheap cleaning device easily found at places like Big C, Lotus, etc. What is that cleaning device: a baby bottle cleaning brush.

Just buy one of those full size baby bottle cleaning brushes with the bendable wire handle. The bendable wire handle is important since it allows you to bend/shape the handle and more easy get the bush through the louvers/flaps in front of the squirrel cage motor. Get as long of a handle as possible....get one of those brushes that is about a foot long from end-to-end and a brush for a full size baby bottle since baby bottle brushes come in various sizes.

Now, be sure the A/C is turned off (maybe even turn the A/C's circuit breaker off to be the A/C don't get turned on accidently) to prevent the cage fan from eating your brush like a wood chipper/damaging the A/C. Then stick the brush through the bottom most part of the vent, get it between the fan and the vent output back wall, and then move the brush back and forth the best you can while paying particular attention to not damaging any of the vent louvers/flaps. The design of your louvers will dictate how much back and forth motion you can do but hopefully you will have enough room to do get some good brushing movement. Or, if you can't get much left and right motion with the brush due to the design of the louvers just stick the brush into the same cleaning area, and rotate/twist/turn the brush like a drilling action. The dirt/gunk should start falling off the fan

Then extract the brush a little to where you can rotate the fan approx. a quarter turn and repeat the left & right brushing action. I actually use a small wooden shish kebob stick to keep the fan from rotating while I'm doing the back and forth brush cleaning...if I don't use something skinny/long to hold the fan from rotating it may rotate before I finish cleaning one area good enough. If your fan is dirty you will see plenty of dry/fluffy dirt particles coming out and the cage fan starting to look clean. You'll know from looking at the fan when it's clean enough and when the dirt particles falling out reduces greatly....you'll probably think to yourself you didn't realize how dirty the fan was until your started cleaning it.

You'll may need to have a vacuum cleaner or simple broom to clean the floor afterwards and since you'll probably see dislodged dirt still in the louvers assembly/fan area after the brush cleaning that didn't fall all the way out you may want to try getting more of that out with the brush. And then what I do is before turn the A/C on again I hold a towel all the way across the louvers outlets (loosely across to where the louvers can still open) and then turn the A/C for about 15 seconds...this catches the great bulk of any dislodged dirt you couldn't get to before turning the A/C back on.

Now use your hand again to check the air flow out of the louvers....if your cage flan was too dirty you will notice a big difference in air flow across the entire length of the louvers...more air output and more even air flow....and that will result in better and cheaper cooling. You may even notice "sound wise" the fan sounds more steady instead of a rising and falling pitch which was being caused by too much dirt on the fan. Good luck.

[Pib]

Oh yea, with the power off the louvers will close but you should be able to open them with you finger tips. And they automatically should correctly reset themselves when turning the A/C back on or you can use your fingers to reposition.

[Pib]

I now have 21 days of KWH usage data since identifying/cleaning the one 18K BTU split air that had dirty compressor (condenser) unit coils/fins....this unit runs pretty much 24/7. My daily electric usage has dropped 24% with our daily electric usage habits remaining unchanged and the weather continuing to be hot & humid. Yeap, even if your compressor unit coils/fins appear clean on the surface they could be jammed up with dirt between the fins limiting the air flow which causes the compressor pump to attempt to push up the Freon pressure and/or the compressor pump runs long in an attempt to maintain cooling--all of this burns more power.

While you will see in my earlier posts I had initially thought the coils/fins were clean enough when I used my trusty ladder to climb up to the unit on the side of the house (kinda hard to get to since they are mounted about 3 meters up the wall) and took a quick look and could even see daylight between the coils/fins in the limited area I could look...but when the A/C repairman said they were very dirty and the dirt looked like a landslide when using a pressure washer to clean the unit...and then the clamp-on ammeter immediately showed a big reduction in amperage draw I couldn't argue with the man.

So, while your results may vary, keep you air con clean to include the inside unit evaporator coils/fins, filters, and squirrel cage fans....dirty squirrel cage fans can really reduce the amount of air they push out the vents which affects cooling and electric usage.

Just some cross feed...electricity ain't getting no cheaper...FYI...your results may (will) vary. At least for me, I know I won't get "shocked" in opening my next electric bill.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have an 8500 BTU traditional Daikin unit in our main bedroom at home, a room that my wife cleans weekly.

The unit is about a year plus old. And I've found that even with her room cleaning and my cleaning the inside unit's removable dust filters every month, that the inside unit gets clogged up and starts to fail to blow a strong current of cool air about every 2 to 3 months.

I then have the air con service guy come out, he takes apart the inside unit, and shows me a long black circular spinning unit inside my indoor unit that shows dust/dirt accumulated. He hose cleans that spinning wheel unit, puts it back together and suddenly the air con is blowing strong and cold air again.

Last time out, I said that seemed a very short cycle for the indoor unit requiring cleaning. And he said no, that every two to three months is the norm in Bangkok.

I do know, I usually keep the windows open 24/7 in our second floor living room and kitchen area (trying to reserve the air con use for the bedroom). And within just a couple days, I'll get a noticeable layer of dust/grime coating all the exposed surfaces (floors, counters, etc). So it's not surprising to me that the air con units (which are constantly exposed and when used sucking in that same air) have a tendency to get dirty pretty quickly.

[Pib]

Keeping that squirrel cage fan clean can make a big difference in the amount of air being pulled through the inside evaporator unit which means how much air is being pulled through the evaporator unit cooling coils/fins to get pushed out into the room which may cause you to lower the temp setting in trying to get more cooling which in turn can affect system pressures which in turn may affect how hard the outside compressor unit works...the "which in turn" effects can indeed multiply. An A/C is a simple machine but simple things can cause it's cooling efficiency to dramatically drop off....I've learned that through the school of life experience (and reaching into my billfold).

I clean my cage fans a couple times per year using the baby bottle cleaning brush like I described in my post above...pretty easy and fast....works good. I should do it quarterly but time just seems to fly by. Besides reduced air output a good sign is usually parts of the long air vent outlet pushing little air out...the air output seems to be concentrated in one or two spots versus a fairly even output across the air vent outlet.

And I would definitely agree the cage fans get dirty/gunky even in a seemingly clean environment...I guess it's just the minute amount of sticky contaminates (stuff) in the air accumulates on this fan design---a fan design which is the standard in split-air systems. The first time I cleaned one of my cage fans I was so surprised by the difference it made in the air output volume.

As FYI, for cleaning the inside unit evaporator coils/fins, a product I tried just this weekend works really good...using a foaming cleaning process...little to no mess...no fuss....and no chemical smell...when turning the unit back on for the first few minutes you even smell a nice flowery smell...the wife liked it. You can buy it at many stories like Makro, Amorn, Lotus, Big C, HomePro, etc....cost approx. 300 baht for a 500ml can...it also comes in a 300ml can at around 200 baht. Makro has the 500ml cans on sale in two can packs for about 400 baht. After using the foam to clean a 18K BTU unit this weekend, I'm thinking the one can I bought may be enough to clean all 7 of my split air evap units....enough for sure to clean 3 or 4 units.

Although the instructions on the can are in Thai, here's a Link to the instructions in English.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, on my unit (the indoors portion), it's not the metal cooling fins that seem to get dirty very fast and interfere with the cooling function.

Rather, it's the spinning unit underneath the coils where the dirt accumulation seems to cause the unit to cool poorly and the flow of cooled air to suffer.

Don't know what it's called, but it looks something like this.

Every time the service guys come out to my home and I complain that the unit has stopped blowing enough cold air, it's this piece that they pull out and point out the accumulated dust/dirt on the ridges.

As best as I can tell, the spray on foam cleaner you're citing above won't do anything for cleaning this piece.

Edited May 13, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Yeap, that's what I'm talking about...the spinning thing...commonly referred to as squirrel cage fan or blower.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Keeping that squirrel cage fan clean can make a big difference in the amount of air being pulled through the inside evaporator unit which means how much air is being pulled through the evaporator unit cooling coils/fins to get pushed out into the room which may cause you to lower the temp setting in trying to get more cooling which in turn can affect system pressures which in turn may affect how hard the outside compressor unit works...the "which in turn" effects can indeed multiply. An A/C is a simple machine but simple things can cause it's cooling efficiency to dramatically drop off....I've learned that through the school of life experience (and reaching into my billfold)

I clean my cage fans a couple times per year using the baby bottle cleaning brush like I described in my post above...pretty easy and fast....works good. I should do it quarterly but time just seems to fly by. Besides reduced air output a good sign is usually parts of the long air vent outlet pushing little air out...the air output seems to be concentrated in one or two spots versus a fairly even output across the air vent outlet.

And I would definitely agree the cage fans get dirty/gunky even in a seemingly clean environment...I guess it's just the minute amount of sticky contaminates (stuff) in the air accumulates on this fan design---a fan design which is the standard in split-air systems. The first time I cleaned one of my cage fans I was so surprised by the difference it made in the air output volume.

Ahh...originally you lost me on the "squirrel cage" terminology... Now I'm following you...

My only problem is, I'm not sure how to access the cage fan roller in my unit. When I lift the unit's external cover, I've got the removable filters covering the right and left halfs. Then underneath those, there's the metal cooler fins.

But the squirrel cage roller fan appears to be behind and/or underneath the metal cooler unit, and I don't see any easy way to access it with any kind of brush -- apart from dismantling the entire indoor wall unit, which is what the cleaning guys do in order to clean the squirrel cage section.

When I look at that roller when the cleaning guys take it out, there's really not that much gunk accumulated on the roller edges. But it makes a huge different in degrading the flow of cooled air, once that piece is cleaned out. After 3 months without a cleaning, I'd say my unit's cooling capacity -- just based on the volume of cooled air put out -- drops below 50% compared to a newly cleaned device.

[Pib]

On most models the squirrel cage fan is in the bottom third of the indoor unit and about one inch behind the louvers that open/close/swivel which allows you to clean the fan with a long brush like a baby bottle bush, but it sounds like with your model it requires some disassembly to reach the fan. You are right it don't take much gunk on the fan slots/blades to make a big difference in air volume output. I was kinda amazed in the difference the first time I cleaned my master bedroom unit which had reduced air output and a waving sound (some kind of air turbulence going on I guess) caused by the dirt build-up on the fan; after cleaning the air output was much stronger/more even and that funny sound was gone.

[doglover]

A fan that is too dirty can also cause the fan to give off a varying speed sound every few seconds like a rising and falling pitch instead of a steady sound level (not to be confused with the normal changing of fan speed if set to Auto speed....but these Auto speed changes don't occur every few seconds like you seem to hear from a dirty squirrel cage fan).

Great info Pib! Just thought I would mention that the fan sound pitch changes could also be caused by voltage fluctuation. Maybe not an issue for big city residents, but for us folks in the sticks it's a common occurrence.

[Pib]

A fan that is too dirty can also cause the fan to give off a varying speed sound every few seconds like a rising and falling pitch instead of a steady sound level (not to be confused with the normal changing of fan speed if set to Auto speed....but these Auto speed changes don't occur every few seconds like you seem to hear from a dirty squirrel cage fan).

Great info Pib! Just thought I would mention that the fan sound pitch changes could also be caused by voltage fluctuation. Maybe not an issue for big city residents, but for us folks in the sticks it's a common occurrence.

Yea, I expect voltage variation could cause it also, but my wavering sound was every few seconds...usually low voltage variations are much longer in duration. I'm lucking when it comes to voltage level as mine stays at 225V day and night...but several times per week (sometimes per day) I will lose power for a half second as the electric company rebalances/switches loads around my Bangkok area....been going on since I moved to Bangkok...appears many people in Bangkok experience the same issue. Plus, immediately after cleaning the sound was gone.

Speaking of cleaning that squirrel case fan, I decided to clean the one in the master bedroom upstairs yesterday, to include using the foam cleaner on the coils. The A/C was still working fine...blowing air fine...no wavering sounds, but I just decided to clean it. Anyway, take a look at the black, fluffy gunk that the baby bottle brush removed off the fan...it floats down to the floor like snow (black snow)....same kind of dark brown or black, fluffy gunk I get when cleaning any A/C throughout the house even when the filters have been cleaned frequently. Our house is no smoking house, we do have some dogs, but they never go upstairs, the windows remained closed. But after a while this fluffy gunk impedes the ability of the squirrel cage fan to suck air through the cooling coils/fins and blow that cold air out into the room....it seems to be almost like once it reaches a certain "dirtiness" point the fan's efficiency drops off quickly and significantly.

And hopefully, from my earlier description on how to use the brush in a back and forth motion, a person might be able to understand better how I'm able to insert the brush at the bottom of the air outlet louvers/vanes in the picture (you might have to zoom in) that shows the cleaning foam sprayed on the evaporator coils/fins. I should have taken a picture of the brush inserted at the very bottom side of the louvers but didn't. My design allows the brush to slip under the louvers/vanes fairly easy and reach the fan. And note, just because the louvers are open in the pictures don't mean the A/C was running...it was turned off and I just used my finger tips to open the louvers for the cleaning. And the cleaning foam on the evap coils dissipates after about 15 minutes.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hey Pib, thanks for the advice and guidance about cleaning the roller fan component inside the interior air con units. Squirrel cage in your parlance.

With the aid of a flashlight, I was able to locate my roller by looking up through the air flow louvers. It sits above them and toward the rear, underneath the cooling apparatus.

Unfortunately, in my unit, underneath the louvers, I seem to have another set of right-left pointing directional fins to further direct the air flow. They don't seem to be removable, and pretty well would seem to get in the way of trying to brush off the roller unit while still installed in the air con.

The first photo shows the horizontal louvers and the vertical directional fins.

The second photo shows the roller unit behind them in closeup...

Not sure how to get past all that with a brush while the roller units stays installed in the air con...

Edited May 21, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

John,

Kinda hard to see the roller (squirrel cage fan) in the second picture, but from what I think I see it looks pretty clean but you had mentioned you had had it cleaned. Regarding those right-left vertical directional fins, on my units they are only connected/mounted to the frame at their top side but not on their bottom side, which means I have a little bit of clearance to slide the cleaning brush back and forth to clean the fan underneath the fins.

Regarding the movement of those vertical directional fins, you should be able to move them left or right to change the direction of the air output...you can move them with your fingers...if they have never been adjusted/moved they may be a little stiff but you should be able to move them left or right around 30 degrees....I know I sure can on all 7 of my York split air units...on my units either half or one-third of the fins are linked together versus each individual fin being adjustable. They are there to adjust the left-right direction of the airflow; otherwise, there would be absolutely no need for them...wasted production expense by the manufacturer...you should be able to adjust them left and right a little. And double check again to see how they are mounted...if only mounted on the top side with no bottom side mount/connection you should be able to get your brush underneath them to do the left and right cleaning motion. And even if they are mounted/connected on the top and bottom, you still should be able to stick the brush between the fins and clean via a "rotation/twisting" motion of the brush....but it's much easier and faster if you can do the left-right cleaning motion by being able to move the brush back and forth just under the vertical fins.

[JAS21]

Here is a little more info for those, who like myself, like to do a bit of DIY fiddling.

Now the unit in our bedroom 18000BTUs has been in fairly constant use since 2007. I had it ‘cleaned’ a couple of times by contractors and the rest of the time I ‘cleaned’ it by sheeting up and water washing, using either supply from the garden hose or connecting into the ‘bum gun’ water supply … you get a slightly higher pressure using that supply.

Of course I wash the ‘inlet filters’ frequently … remove, soap and the rinse clean using the bum gun into the toilet bowl …. It’s surprising how dirty they get in a short time, especially if you open the windows and let the air blow through during the day.

Anyway a few days after the last wash water started dripping down where it shouldn’t after the unit had been running for several minutes. I worked out that it was coming from the rear tray and guessed that the rear tray was blocked and that it overflowed and ran down the wall.

I re-washed as best I could but again after a few days the same problem, so my wife contacted Daikin and someone came. The guy obviously wasn’t going to do anything as he came alone. Told me the unit needed removing and would cost about 2600Baht to remove and then maybe a total of 4000Baht to fix. He suggested that I buy another unit. So I said I would think about it.

So I decided to have it taken off, washed and see what the problem was as I knew that I hadn’t been washing it that well and certainly the rear section never washed well. In fact since then I have realized that no-one ever washed the rear section well as they can’t get their gun in due to the unit being close to the ceiling.

I peeled off the wall paper carefully and opened up the wall, wasn’t going to let them do it! This is the only unit in the house which isn’t on an outside wall so the pipes run horizontal in the wall for a couple of foot.

My wife did try contacting a Daikin recommended company but they didn’t want to know when she said that it wanted taking off the wall so she contacted Daikin direct and the price to remove/wash/replace was 1630 Baht and 320 Baht for acid.

So two guys came, removed the unit fairly quickly and stripped it down. It was really dirty and debris was blocking the rear tray drain. The rear tray drains into the front one on this unit. So the guy must have spent 30 minutes washing, he didn’t want to use acid as he said that the tubes were thin. Think he realized that I had already acid cleaned the unit once and was worried that it might fail! But he did use the NORCA foam that Pib used.

You definitely need high velocity to remove the dirt.

Okay all back together and working well. I have just checked it with a digital thermometer and air in 26.5DegC and air out 9.5DegC, that is on the lowest speed. Which is now all we use at night. I did notice that the unit was running at 80psi, which is just slightly high. The running amps where ‘design’ 9.8A.

I got a bill for just the cleaning, 1630Baht.

The guy confirmed that if the ‘compressor’ cooler is dirty then system amps rise.

Since then I have cleaned, using my HP washer all the other compressor coolers. Took covers off, removed fan blades and cleaned from inside to outside. Units are too close to the wall to wash any other way. They were definitely dirty.

I also bought some of that NORCA foam and cleaned one of the other small units (Makro have two cans for 350baht). I used my HP washer for where I could get to and then the hose sprayer for the rear fins. Actually on this unit I couldn’t for some reason get the front tray off, so the drain line got a good flushing out!

The instruction on the foam can say RINCE the foam off WELL. I don’t know what it contains, but it definitely removed some dirt, so it’s quite strong. I can’t get the air outlet down to anywhere near 9.5DegC though.

Anyway … Food for Thought………………………I’m using a lot less electric at night! So I guess that now and again each unit will need to come off the wall and be properly washed, however I can delay that that by self washing the units and keeping the air inlet filters clean.

Pic 1 Unit on the wall

Pic 2 Stripped unit all foamed up

Pic 3 Rear tray

Edited May 23, 2013 by JAS21

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I wasn't aware Daikin had their own service techs for cleaning their units -- apart from warranty repair issues.

Here in BKK, I've gone thru a bunch of different independent air con cleaning guys, who have done better and worse jobs and at varying prices, before settling on one company that seems to be pretty competent and reasonably priced.

My wife has a co-worker who's a Thai facilities maintenance guy who told her the normal price for just an indoor cleaning is about 500 baht. The company we've ended up using runs about 700 baht per unit, and they send out 3 guys each time. The price goes up a bit when I ask them to also clean the outdoors unit.

They bring an electric power water gun device, almost like an electric leaf blower sized unit, that they use. They disassemble the indoors unit, take all the indoors piece into the bathroom, spray them down there, dry off, and then return to reinstall.

I've had other service guys, can't really call them a company, do the job for as little as 500, and I've had others quote me 1000 or up to 1500 baht, which I didn't go for.

Indeed, with the unit cleaned and the filters cleaned as well, which I do regularly inbetween the service cleanings, the unit cools far more efficiently and we seem to get lower power bills as well.

Last time they were here, I asked the service guys what's the normal interval for air cons needing cleaning here in BKK, and he said two to three months. There is, indeed, a lot of dust and gunk in the air.

[JAS21]

No Daikin Sub it out .. just google Daikin Service and you will find a lot of dealers. But you phone Daikin and they will organize one of the companies to attend and Daikin fix the price for the job.

Do I mis-understand here ... for 700Baht they will remove the unit from the wall ... that is lock all the R22 into the compressor unit and then disconnect the pipes to the indoor unit. Remove the indoor unit from the wall, strip it down and wash ... then reassemble, re-connect the R22 pipes, evacuate the system and then test run.

Or is that for a normal clean, which is basically take the plastic covers off, sheet up and power wash the heat exchanger. then clean all the bits and reassemble. 700Baht for this is about right.

Daikin charge near on 1000Baht for a clean ... that is the inside and outside units. For 1630Baht they removed the indoor unit from the wall and all that entails, stripped it, cleaned and reinstalled. then cleaned the outdoor unit.

In the past I have paid anywhere between 400Baht and 600Baht for the 'normal' clean. I understand that now prices have risen somewhat.

You don't want a cowboy removing the unit from the wall as it's very important to ensure that nothing enters into the R22 system .. the smallest spec of dirt can f-ck the compressor. All pipe ends need blanking immediately after disconnection.

[Naam]

Do I mis-understand here ... for 700Baht they will remove the unit from
the wall ... that is lock all the R22 into the compressor unit and then
disconnect the pipes to the indoor unit. Remove the indoor unit from
the wall, strip it down and wash ... then reassemble, re-connect the R22
pipes, evacuate the system and then test run.

for sure you misunderstood. there's no such thing "locking" the refrigerant in

the compressor/condenser unit. it is also highly unlikely that the indoor unit

is removed from the wall except in very rare cases when expensive automatic

couplings are used during installation or a much higher fee is charged.

Or is that for a normal clean...

it is.

[JAS21]

Do I mis-understand here ... for 700Baht they will remove the unit from

the wall ... that is lock all the R22 into the compressor unit and then

disconnect the pipes to the indoor unit. Remove the indoor unit from

the wall, strip it down and wash ... then reassemble, re-connect the R22

pipes, evacuate the system and then test run.

for sure you misunderstood. there's no such thing "locking" the refrigerant in

the compressor/condenser unit. it is also highly unlikely that the indoor unit

is removed from the wall except in very rare cases when expensive automatic

couplings are used during installation or a much higher fee is charged.

>Or is that for a normal clean...

it is.

Dr Naam

I was expecting a comment from you as you are quite up on this subject. But I think maybe you slightly misunderstand. The unit was removed from the wall. To remove the unit from the wall the R22, R134A or whatever is the fluid, needs to ensure that it stays in the compressor, so the valves screwed into the position which retains the refrigerant. The couplings 2-off are then undone and the inside unit unscrewed from the wall, stripped as per the pictures and cleaned. See the pictures a few posts back.

One set of contractors didn't want to do the job as they said it never goes back easy, however it turned out to be 'a piece of piss' to do.

[Pib]

Drain hole/pipe blockage can easily occur (and will occur) even in those units where the owner religiously cleans the filters once a month. I can reach the drain hole on all 7 of my York evaporator/inside units without having to disassemble the unit...well, in one unit I had to drill a hole on one unit cover plate to easily reach it.

When looking at the evap/inside unit the drain hole is usually in the far right hand corner of the drain pan....but it could be on the left or anywhere along the drain pan...all depends on your unit....but it's usually on one end or the other of the drain pan.. And that drain pan location will be real close to where the evap coils end on the right side. The drain pan runs the entire length and is underneath the evap fins. On my units, I can see this drain hole when I remove the one screw which holds a small cover plate on the right hand, front side of the unit....this small plate is under the front cover that you open and close to reach/clean the filters. If you look at the third picture in my post 18 you can partially see that cover which is held in place one screw....well, you can really just see the very corner of the cover...but its on the far right, front side. Everybody's unit is different so whether you have a cover plate where I describe may or may not exist. The key is to see if there is any cover plate pretty close to the end of the drain plan which would allow you to see and access the drain pan drain hole.

Anyway, underneath my cover is some electrical 220V wires and the evap unit electronics board, but when you are standing on a step ladder eye level with that removed cover and look in the lower left hand corner of the cover you can see one end of the drain pan and the drain pan outlet hole. Right at that hole and maybe a few inches into the hole is where the clogage usually occurs based on my personal experience...and it's usually green/algae looking stuff.

Below is a picture of a homemade cleaner I made. It's nothing more than an old 1.25L Pepsi bottle, 1/4 inch O.D. flexible hosing like used on drinking water cleaner units/filters, with a hole drilled in the bottle top and then the hose inserted and siliconed in-place ....and I wrapped some PVC tape around that connection point just to add some strength to the silicone securing power. The hose needs to be flexible enough to where it can be pushed pass a 90 degree turn since the drain hose may have a 90 degree turn at the junction of the drain pan and the drain hose. This hosing comes in a pretty stiff version (which you don't want) and a more flexible/rubber like version....you can buy it at lots of places.

Since the clogage usually occurs right at the entrance to the drain hole just pushing the flexible hose into the hole a few inches and pushing/pulling the hose back and forth will usually clear the clogage. But what I do in order to help clean out the entire length of the drain pipe all the way to where it drips outside is mix a 50/50 solution of washing bleach and water in the bottle...enough solution to fill the bottle about half full, then I insert the flexible hose into the drain hole, push it as far as I can down the drain hole which is usually pass the first 90 degree turn in the drain hose and then squeeze the bottle to push the bleach solution into the drain pipe....it does a pretty good job of cleaning the entire length of the drain pipe...and the bleach in the solution will also kill off any algae growing in the pipe which in itself can cause blockage. Any time you clean the evap fins with a cleaner you should clean the drainage hole/pipe also since depending on how dirty your evap coils were the cleaning agent/foam may have removed quite a bit of gunk which could clog up the drain hole/pipe.

Below is a picture of my home made evaporator drain hole cleaner.

[JAS21]

Another way to ensure that the drain pipe is clear is to pull the pipe off the end of the front tray and stick the hosepipe into it and blast it through for a short time. You have to be a little careful just incase there is a bit of a blockage and you get the back pressure in the face.

To get at the tray to drain pipe connection you have to unscrew the main cover and remove it ... usually pushing up and back will get it off the tabs

Pib, as you say the line needs a bit of bleach now and again ... air con drain lines store quite a few nasty bugs.

[Pib]

One time I had a small lizard (a jing-jok...you know, the type you see running around on your walls)....apparently get stuck and die in one of my A/C drain pipes...stopped it up. But my 50/50 bleach/water solution with my high tech Pepsi squeeze bottle got rid of the clog....immediately after the cleaning the dead lizard and gunk was found laying at the outlet of the drain pipe...looked like he had been dead a couple of weeks and the dead/stuck lizard was probably what started a dam/clog to build-up in the drain pipe.

[Pacificperson]

I have a small wet-dry vac that I use to clean the inside units. For the drain pipe, I get a drinking straw and insert it into the drain. Then I hold it with my hand and blow air through the straw with the shop vac. It works well, but I like to cola bottle idea. Its very inventive Pib.

The shop vac is good on the evaporator fins if all you want to do is remove the surface build-up. It also works on the fan, if you remove the little, useless air deflectors.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No Daikin Sub it out .. just google Daikin Service and you will find a lot of dealers. But you phone Daikin and they will organize one of the companies to attend and Daikin fix the price for the job.

Do I mis-understand here ... for 700Baht they will remove the unit from the wall ... that is lock all the R22 into the compressor unit and then disconnect the pipes to the indoor unit. Remove the indoor unit from the wall, strip it down and wash ... then reassemble, re-connect the R22 pipes, evacuate the system and then test run.

Or is that for a normal clean, which is basically take the plastic covers off, sheet up and power wash the heat exchanger. then clean all the bits and reassemble. 700Baht for this is about right.

Daikin charge near on 1000Baht for a clean ... that is the inside and outside units. For 1630Baht they removed the indoor unit from the wall and all that entails, stripped it, cleaned and reinstalled. then cleaned the outdoor unit.

Your second scenario was the correct one, as I was describing above.

I have a year-old Daikin unit, and had no reason or need for the cleaning guys to remove the entire unit from our bedroom wall.

They disassemble and remove the roller piece, and clean it, the external housing and the plastic filter pieces. They also clean the evaporator coils in place via their water sprayer. They also open the entrance to the drain line, and use their water gun to shoot water thru it, hopefully blowing out any obstructions.

All of that is the 700 baht service I was describing above. For our unit, in indoors coils seem to stay pretty clean, but it's Pib's squirrel cage unit (the roller piece) that gets dirt on its edge surfaces and that really degrades the cooling function, which usually is the reason I end up ordering a service call.

BTW, re Pib and my chat above, I did see that the vertical directional air blades inside my unit, just underneath the louvers, are indeed only attached at the top, not attached at the bottom, and seem to be made of a flexible plastic that would allow a brush device to be slid underneath them. Thanks for the tip, Pib!!!