Will You Still Visit Thailand.......

[Nignoy]

Yes, it's crossing south of there tomorrow. Hang on tight to that steering wheel (or arm rest) mate.

19.15 hrs tilt train from caboolture wont get into cairns till tomorrow evening might have settled down a bit by then need all the rest I can get , big cherryberet reunion in townsville on the way back, a few creme de menthe frappes will be consumed nignoy

[bbigman21]

Sure the night life brought me there but it was the people that made me want to stay!

[Maigo6]

When I first read the title of this thread " Will you still visit Thailand if .... "

I guessed all the answers would be " yes , it does not affect me at all "

I was right .

haha.I was thinking the same thing Jeff.

Obviously the sex tourists don't use Internet forums, yea right.

[Ulysses G.]

As Thomas Merton once said, "There is the stereotype that everyone is here for sex, and then there is the other stereotype, that no one is here for the sex."

[markuk]

“Will you still visit Thailand if it’s without naughty nightlife?”

Thailand has many kinds of nice places for you to visit and many things to learn on culture and its people. Thai people, who are not in the tourism field, are still nice and worth meeting.

Many Thais think - it is now time for the government to change Thailand's image as a sexual paradise. We should promote tourism in more appropriate ways - to attract more and better quality tourists…..not quantity of tourists.

Many thais also feel that many places in Thailand have changed since tourism has been promoted. It doesn’t mean that it is not good to promote it, but it must be done in the correct way otherwise tourism will be a weapon that will destroy those places.

Deputy governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, said:

'The government wants to change Thailand's image. We’re trying to attract a better class of tourist not the certain type of tourists. We’re trying to promote tourism here on the basis of beaches, sunshine, history and culture more than entertainments. Tourism here in Thailand does need to be regulated for the benefit of society - to help rebrand the country as a land of beaches, temples and sunshine.’

But critics - from entertainment industry - warn:

‘This idea would cost a million jobs, devastate tourism and take Thailand out of tourism map. Because most hotels, restaurants and night-time entertainment are based on repeat tourism by certain type/class of tourists’

Your thoughts on this? - if it’s without naughty night life?”

I wouls stay - i am fed up with the naughty scene and some of the sad case tourists that come with it.

[Cassandra]

A number of interesting contributions to this topic.Let me try and sum up the position.Came here as a sex tourist,became a visa runner,after a number of wallet lightening experiences "married" a bargirl, more or less overwhelmed by booze and now have difficulty getting it up.Now the redlight districts of no interest, and have instead developed a strong passion for Thai culture, though don't really understand it and Thai language capacity strictly bar room level.Pity the poor bozos in similar position to self.Does that capture the sense more or les accurately?

[Khutan]

........Does that capture the sense more or les accurately?

Not really, but what do you think a self-riteous attitude like that will make many friends ?

[Boo]

sounds like words of expereince cassandra, got anything to tell

[Cassandra]

........Does that capture the sense more or les accurately?

Not really, but what do you think a self-riteous attitude like that will make many friends ?

Even if you knew how to spell it, you don't appear to understand what "self righteous" means.I wasn't taking a moral position, one way or the other.

[jdinasia]

the naughty nightlife only exists because there are so many poor isaan farm girls without a future who are prepared to take part in it for a better life.

if you ban everything then who will help these people? many of these girls help sustain families back home.

Now there's a simplistic response, If that was the case .... ALL of them would be working in the "business". Some people chose to work in backbreaking work ... and some on their backs.

BKK90210... The nightlife you are referring to and western tourists, is such a small part of the Thai sex industry, I think less than 3% of all girls involved in sex in LOS deal with westerners... so why would it disappearing have any major effect on tourism... I personally wouldn't care either way!

I personally see it as a bit of organised fun, just cuts out a lot of messing about.

3%? I rather think this statistic was pulled out of the poster's nether regions -- or thin air.

[monochaser]

Thai tourism would drop 90% w/o the naughty nitelife w/o question

[Ulysses G.]

Let me try and sum up the position. Came here as a sex tourist, became a visa runner, after a number of wallet lightening experiences "married" a bargirl, more or less overwhelmed by booze and now have difficulty getting it up. Now the red-light districts of no interest, and have instead developed a strong passion for Thai culture, though don't really understand it and Thai language capacity strictly bar room level. Pity the poor bozos in similar position to self. Does that capture the sense more or less accurately?

Kudos Cassandra.

This is the best post that you have ever written. Maybe the best post that anyone has ever written. The "We're here for the culture" brigade is going to love you!

Edited March 20, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[icecubes]

“Will you still visit Thailand if it’s without naughty nightlife?”

No way, Better places around the planet if you want a quite life,

Honesty, no xenophobic people, and cheap living.

i stick with the bars so its ok for me.

[Nawtilus]

Well i guess everyone comes for the fresh air and pristine environs then..me three

[game4shame]

how would you define 'naughty nightlife'? if you mean go-go bars and shows then yeah i'd visit without those. there'd still be thai girls with farang blokes in bars though, paid or unpaid - does that count as being naughty?

A more thought-provoking question would be 'would you still visit if Thai women showed absolutely no interest in western blokes whatsoever?'

but anyway, I think its a bit of a pointless question. some reasons in previous posts eg

-the tourism revenue generated from 'naughty nightlife' seekers would be sorely missed

-its only tiny areas of the country where its rampant

-its unlikely its going to totally disappear

-without go-gos/shows, Thai girls will still show interest in western blokes for whatever reason - financial or otherwise

etc etc etc.

Edited March 20, 2006 by game4shame

[Jim 50]

“Will you still visit Thailand if it’s without naughty nightlife?”

Thailand has many kinds of nice places for you to visit and many things to learn on culture and its people. Thai people, who are not in the tourism field, are still nice and worth meeting.

Many Thais think - it is now time for the government to change Thailand's image as a sexual paradise. We should promote tourism in more appropriate ways - to attract more and better quality tourists…..not quantity of tourists.

Many thais also feel that many places in Thailand have changed since tourism has been promoted. It doesn’t mean that it is not good to promote it, but it must be done in the correct way otherwise tourism will be a weapon that will destroy those places.

Deputy governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, said:

'The government wants to change Thailand's image. We’re trying to attract a better class of tourist not the certain type of tourists. We’re trying to promote tourism here on the basis of beaches, sunshine, history and culture more than entertainments. Tourism here in Thailand does need to be regulated for the benefit of society - to help rebrand the country as a land of beaches, temples and sunshine.’

But critics - from entertainment industry - warn:

‘This idea would cost a million jobs, devastate tourism and take Thailand out of tourism map. Because most hotels, restaurants and night-time entertainment are based on repeat tourism by certain type/class of tourists’

Your thoughts on this? - if it’s without naughty night life?”

They can only do this by lying. The beaches are filthy, many Thais in the tourist areas are not friendly but about as sleazy and low as you they can get.

Thailand is the sex capital because this is is a long standing trait of Thai culture. Mia nois and prostitution is and has been common in Thailand for hundreds of years according to many studies and historians. The UN calls it "soft prostitution" whatever that means.

[retirednavyman]

Of course - it would be a shallow git who flies somewhere only to get laid.

Thailand offers so much to families, and the majority of better/higher class hotel accomodation is taken up by couples and families.

(Possibly not in Pattaya or Phuket)

Of course it would be a shallow git who thinks that getting laid is a shallow activity.

What, on earth, is more deep than sex?

Family? Like staring into the eyes of a lover is less profound than staring into the eyes of a child? Business? What? Sex is the concentration of all that is important into one timeless piece of time. Shallow. Shallow is in the depth of the eyes of the beholder.

And are you equating better/higher class hotels with the more worthy and less shallow? Money=depth?

What, on earth, is more deep than sex?

Try love my friend, because sex is a physical act but love transcends is eternal and is felt from the heart, not from your loins!!!!

[mark45y]

First lets get some facts straight. The majority of the customers for Thailand’s naughty night life are Thai men.

Second, the poverty in Issan has little or nothing to do with the naughty night life. Unless you consider the poverty in Los Vegas the reason that prostitution flourishes there. Or the poverty in Tampa or San Francisco, London, I could go on but you get the idea.

Third in 1962 there was lots of naughty night life if you knew where to find it. Or had Thai friends.

The economic impact of the naughty night life has greatly increased since 1967. In a lot of cases it is cash flow without raw materials so the impact is far greater than a few families in Issan. When you make a car you have to build a factory and invest non renewable raw materials and borrow money among other things.

With the naughty nightlife the raw materiel is a renewable resource with at least a 20 year lifespan. The cash is not moved outside the country to pay back loans it remains here and is invested in the local economy.

If you buy a car for 800,000 bht a small percentage of that cost perhaps 30% stays in Thailand. 100% of the naughty night life income stays in the country. You would have to sell a lot of cars to produce the same economic impact of one small Go Go bar. The Go Go is also a source of income for police and government officials and beverage sellers not to mention incense purveyors and flower sellers.

A lot of people think the naughty night life is a low paying business. That is not the case. A good looking naughty night life provider can easily generate 200,000 Bht per month and the better ones 400,000. This is done with cell phones and bank account transfers by Farangs who don’t want the naughty night life provider to be providing naughty night life and the cash transfers are made to prevent the naughty night life from occurring. The average good looking naughty night life provider has 5 to 10 of these Farangs making contributions. If you take 100 women working in a Go Go that comes out to 480,000,000 Bht per year per Go Go. Multiply that by the number of Go Go’s in Bangkok and Pattaya and you begin to get an idea of the impact of the business on the economy. If you add the other providers of naughty night life such as beer bar girls and freelancers it comes out to a staggering amount of money.

The average view of the poor girl from Issan being dragged into naughty night life as a barely subsistence living is a myth. Most of the ladies involved if they are attractive and well spoken are making more money than doctors and investing that money in land or businesses. Drugs, gambling and drink account for a certain amount of failures but that too funds the economy.

Also there is zero chance of the status quo changing on the naughty night life. It funds to many other enterprises.

[ourmanflint]

Now there's a simplistic response, If that was the case .... ALL of them would be working in the "business". Some people chose to work in backbreaking work ... and some on their backs.

BKK90210... The nightlife you are referring to and western tourists, is such a small part of the Thai sex industry, I think less than 3% of all girls involved in sex in LOS deal with westerners... so why would it disappearing have any major effect on tourism... I personally wouldn't care either way!

I personally see it as a bit of organised fun, just cuts out a lot of messing about.

3%? I rather think this statistic was pulled out of the poster's nether regions -- or thin air.

I really wish before having a dig at other people, you would at least provide something to support your assertions, I took the figure from Lonely Planet Thailand last year which has a pretty detailed look at the Thai sex industry, the 3% figure may not be spot on, but it is between 3 and 7 %! Memory fails. Aside from that, do you really believe the sex industry is centred on foreign tourists??

It is Not!!

[jdinasia]

nope .... but your numbers are WAY skewed ... a "I think it was" statistic" isn't at all reliable ..... and Lonely Planet is hardly known for their accuracy at all .... can you imagine a poll written that said ..... + or - 133%?

Saying poverty is the reason for hookers hardly explains hookers everywhere else but in Thailand. Some people choose to work ... some choose not to.

[cobra]

Well lets see,

Great food, clean beaches, friendly people, low cost of living, fairly safe,

and where else can I get a Rolex for 200b ... how they can sell them so cheap is beyond me,

[Jim 50]

Well lets see,

Great food, clean beaches, friendly people, low cost of living, fairly safe,

and where else can I get a Rolex for 200b ... how they can sell them so cheap is beyond me,

I saw a guy wearing a Rolex having a swim in pristine Pattaya Bay.

Was that you?

[Jeff1]

When I first read the title of this thread " Will you still visit Thailand if .... "

I guessed all the answers would be " yes , it does not affect me at all "

I was right .

haha.I was thinking the same thing Jeff.

Obviously the sex tourists don't use Internet forums, yea right.

Yeah , just not this forum

[game4shame]

i think the OP is trying to scope out the real sex tourists on the forum but, I think im right in saying, even the most blatant ST's come to Thailand for reasons other than just sex - sex and the weather or sex and the people or sex and the food or sex and relaxation etc etc etc.

suppose the point im trying to make is, if they wanted only sex then theres usually variations of sleaze alot closer to home.

more often than not, sex visitors come for other 'respectable' reasons too and probably would still visit if the go-gos/shows stopped.

take away the go-gos/shows and there'd still be Thai girls looking for western men (whatever the reason) as well as all the other reasons we love the country - climate, people, beaches, food, 'respectable' nightlife etc etc.

[LaoPo]

A lot of people think the naughty night life is a low paying business. That is not the case. A good looking naughty night life provider can easily generate 200,000 Bht per month and the better ones 400,000. This is done with cell phones and bank account transfers by Farangs who don’t want the naughty night life provider to be providing naughty night life and the cash transfers are made to prevent the naughty night life from occurring. The average good looking naughty night life provider has 5 to 10 of these Farangs making contributions. If you take 100 women working in a Go Go that comes out to 480,000,000 Bht per year per Go Go. Multiply that by the number of Go Go’s in Bangkok and Pattaya and you begin to get an idea of the impact of the business on the economy. If you add the other providers of naughty night life such as beer bar girls and freelancers it comes out to a staggering amount of money.

The average view of the poor girl from Issan being dragged into naughty night life as a barely subsistence living is a myth. Most of the ladies involved if they are attractive and well spoken are making more money than doctors and investing that money in land or businesses. Drugs, gambling and drink account for a certain amount of failures but that too funds the economy.

Also there is zero chance of the status quo changing on the naughty night life. It funds to many other enterprises.

I don't know where you found your knowledge about these figures but to me it sounds unbelievable.

Why?

Well, when I visited Jomtien last time and went with my wife strolling through Pattaya I saw hundreds and hundreds of girls in............empty bars.

The girls outnumbered the Farang men on a large scale and we both felt real sorry seeing all those 'empty eyes' and sad faces and probably making no money at all.

Beautiful....? Well, everybody has his own opinion about beauty but I didn't find most of the girls very attractive and really can't see that most of these girls (The average good looking naughty night life provider -your words-) have 5-10 farangs supporting them from abroad.

IF that would be the case, why don't you see these girls driving in brandnew sportscars? I NEVER saw girls in chique clothes or driving expensive cars, but I might have been on the wrong places

I'm not an expert how these girls and bars function but assume that they don't get paid by their bosses like a normal working-girl in a shop or office on a weekly/monthly basis.

So, no client/no money.

Maybe there are indeed successful beautiful, well spoken girls who do make a lot of money, but I doubt if it is on the scale you describe.

The vast majority is poor and stay poor. Just my view.

I agree though that the Thai 'naughty night life' scene is big and even much bigger outside the view of the common Farang. In other words, for local Thai men in general.

It is and was exactly like Jim50 described in his post earlier:

"""Thailand is the sex capital because this is is a long standing trait of Thai culture. Mia nois and prostitution is and has been common in Thailand for hundreds of years according to many studies and historians. The UN calls it "soft prostitution" whatever that means."""

Just my 2 satang though

LaoPo

[Jim 50]

i think the OP is trying to scope out the real sex tourists on the forum but, I think im right in saying, even the most blatant ST's come to Thailand for reasons other than just sex - sex and the weather or sex and the people or sex and the food or sex and relaxation etc etc etc.

suppose the point im trying to make is, if they wanted only sex then theres usually variations of sleaze alot closer to home.

more often than not, sex visitors come for other 'respectable' reasons too and probably would still visit if the go-gos/shows stopped.

take away the go-gos/shows and there'd still be Thai girls looking for western men (whatever the reason) as well as all the other reasons we love the country - climate, people, beaches, food, 'respectable' nightlife etc etc.

This makse good sense. The go-gos are just an easy conduit for newbies and tourists to enter the scene. Once familiar with LOS anyone will know there are girls everywhere.

[richard10365]

No way. I would have never came had I not thought I could not find a hot looking young woman who would be interested in me.

I don't care if she is just after my money or my love. Some girls who go work in these "naughty places" are doing so to find someone to take care of them.

These people who work in Bangkok and trying to come up with the morally correct laws are not thinking of the millions of people it will be affecting.

What will these people do if there is no "naughty places" for them to earn big money? These big shot Bangkok people do not have a plan in place to subsidize the income of all the "naughty places" workers.

They might say something like, you can go to school and earn an education. Maybe get a bachelors degree. Let's say all the "naughty places" workers got degrees. Now you need to create millions of new jobs for them to work with their degree.

I see a dark cloud hanging around this idea. It is not very well thought out.

Like it or not, the naughty business industry is part of Thai culture the same as taking care of your parents. Usually, these 2 ideas go hand in hand.

[otherstuff1957]

The real question, is not would YOU still come to Thailand, but will millions of tourists still come to Thailand.

Most of the posters on this board either live here or are frequent visitors. We would not be affected by the closing down of the "Naughty Nightlife" either because we are no longer very interested in it or because we could find it if we wanted to. But what about the tourists? What percentage of them would stop coming if the number of available women was greatly reduced?

[mark45y]

A lot of people think the naughty night life is a low paying business. That is not the case. A good looking naughty night life provider can easily generate 200,000 Bht per month and the better ones 400,000. This is done with cell phones and bank account transfers by Farangs who don’t want the naughty night life provider to be providing naughty night life and the cash transfers are made to prevent the naughty night life from occurring. The average good looking naughty night life provider has 5 to 10 of these Farangs making contributions. If you take 100 women working in a Go Go that comes out to 480,000,000 Bht per year per Go Go. Multiply that by the number of Go Go’s in Bangkok and Pattaya and you begin to get an idea of the impact of the business on the economy. If you add the other providers of naughty night life such as beer bar girls and freelancers it comes out to a staggering amount of money.

The average view of the poor girl from Issan being dragged into naughty night life as a barely subsistence living is a myth. Most of the ladies involved if they are attractive and well spoken are making more money than doctors and investing that money in land or businesses. Drugs, gambling and drink account for a certain amount of failures but that too funds the economy.

Also there is zero chance of the status quo changing on the naughty night life. It funds to many other enterprises.

I don't know where you found your knowledge about these figures but to me it sounds unbelievable.

Why?

Well, when I visited Jomtien last time and went with my wife strolling through Pattaya I saw hundreds and hundreds of girls in............empty bars.

The girls outnumbered the Farang men on a large scale and we both felt real sorry seeing all those 'empty eyes' and sad faces and probably making no money at all.

Beautiful....? Well, everybody has his own opinion about beauty but I didn't find most of the girls very attractive and really can't see that most of these girls (The average good looking naughty night life provider -your words-) have 5-10 farangs supporting them from abroad.

IF that would be the case, why don't you see these girls driving in brandnew sportscars? I NEVER saw girls in chique clothes or driving expensive cars, but I might have been on the wrong places

I'm not an expert how these girls and bars function but assume that they don't get paid by their bosses like a normal working-girl in a shop or office on a weekly/monthly basis.

So, no client/no money.

Maybe there are indeed successful beautiful, well spoken girls who do make a lot of money, but I doubt if it is on the scale you describe.

The vast majority is poor and stay poor. Just my view.

I agree though that the Thai 'naughty night life' scene is big and even much bigger outside the view of the common Farang. In other words, for local Thai men in general.

It is and was exactly like Jim50 described in his post earlier:

"""Thailand is the sex capital because this is is a long standing trait of Thai culture. Mia nois and prostitution is and has been common in Thailand for hundreds of years according to many studies and historians. The UN calls it "soft prostitution" whatever that means."""

Just my 2 satang though

LaoPo

The better looking girls are in the Go Go’s and you would not have seen them unless you went in the Go Go’s.

The girls in the Go Go’s and the bar get paid a monthly wage whether the customers are there or not. The wage depends on the place and what they do there.

The average dancer makes about 10,000 Bht per month and the Beer Bar girls about 4000 Bht per month. Feature dancers 15,000 to 20,000 per month. These amounts are separate from bar fines, drink commissions and tips.

The vast majority of the girls bank their money and do not drive around in flashy cars or live in large apartments with expensive clothes. It is common for three or four girls to share one small one room apartment. It may seem hard to believe that these girls have the economic savvy and discipline to put the money in the bank but many things in Thailand are hard to believe.

The Thai venues have nothing in common with tourist type clubs and there are thousands of them employing tens of thousands of women. The first time I was exposed to these entertainment places I literally could not believe my eyes.

I went to a 500 table comedy club/restaurant in Bangkok with a number of Thai friends. They had singers and dancers and a large comedy show with the same people you see on Thai TV. There were also 50 beautiful hostesses in attendance who sang and just kinda walked around. There were small candle lit rooms around the ceiling of the club like VIP booths. I asked after a couple of hours what these were for. I was told the girls go with customers, and everyone laughed at my naivety.

There are also Thai restaurants/clubs that keep large staffs of girls on hand to dance with your date. This is of course a perfect solution for guys who don’t care to dance. The ladies are also available for single men. Add to this the thousands of karaoke’s and massage parlors which never see a Farang and you begin to get some idea of the scope of the business.

[Maigo6]

Sure the night life brought me there but it was the people that made me want to stay!

The Nightlife people?